How would you use Wun Wun in battle?

[JamesD2020]

As much as we love Wun Wun, I think this part of the show marks his exit.  Him shown charging in from the preview looks like it will be Jon's armies desperation charge.

[Survivor92]

59 minutes ago, TinfoilToolate said:

I wouldnt use him at all in battle.  I'd send him and 20 good (bear)men to storm the gates of Winterfell from the south as the bulk of the Stark Army marches from the north.  Ramsay and his forces meet the Stark Army in a full display of force, leaving Winterfell scarcely guarded, and definitely not prepared for a Giant knocking down a freshly built gate.  The Winterfell patrols sound the horns, which forces Ramsay to divert troops back to Winterfell, add the possibility of Knights of the Vale arriving from the south, and now Ramsay, for the first time, is outmanned, surrounded, with no castle to retreat into.  He isn't a capable and calculating leader, and his men abandon him, much like Stannis.

It's also been admitted by the Boltons and Karstarks that Jon, having grown up in Winterfell, knows the castle better than any of them ever will.  Even if the ambush wasnt a straight forward knocking down of the gate, I'm sure he could find a back door to exploit.  We saw how intimidated the men of the Nights Watch were behind a 700 ft wall of ice, and 3 inch thick gates of "cold rolled steel," when giants were attempting their siege, and how effective just 1 giant can be in both Mance's raid, as well as Hardhome with Wun Wun taking on a seemingly endless number of undead forces. 

This. Capturing Winterfell during the battle will do more damage than WunWun could ever do on the field. The Bolton's morale will go down, Ramsay will have to dispatch A LOT of troops to take it back... it seems quite plausible that Winterfell would be ill-defended and WunWun could quickly lift Ghost and a few dozen men on its walls. Get Sansa there as well as Davos and some good fighters and the castle can be taken quickly. 

Then Jon can try to do an organized retreat past Winterfell, Davos quickly opens a postern/northern gate (not the one the Boltons came from) and suddenly Jon & co are defending Winterfell against the Bolton army. It makes sense that Ramsay would fall for this, he's cocky and I don't think he knows about WunWun or even Ghost. It would be a brilliant plot for TV, we would even have our "ghost in Winterfell" and we don't need the Riders of Rohan Vale Army to save the day. Or have the Vale army show up just as the Boltons have been locked out from Winterfell, then let Jon, Tormund and Ghost sally out to flank them during the battle like in the last Hobbit movie. 

Imagine how awesome this could be on TV. Ghost slaughtering the Bolton defenders of Winterfell. Ramsay's realization that he shouldn't have left the castle. Davos, the smuggler, who opens a small gate for Jon (that Jon and Sansa of course knew about). And then the Vale army shows up, Littlefinger wasn't needed after all, and we get an awesome sally-out scene from Tormund/Ghost/Jon where Ghost rips Ramsay apart.

[Darksky]

Not a good idea for him to be throwing giant rocks/logs when the armies clash. Jon's army would become collateral damage. Given the distance between the armies which we see in the trailer it'd be impossible for him to reach Ramsay's troops despite his size and strength. Giant arrows yes, but not rocks. Even if he somehow managed with one rock, Ramsay's army would just fall back and out of range. He's an easy target whether he's in the back or the vanguard. They could pull a Martin and give him a Valyrian Steel armour, that of a massive size, because why not? If Martin can introduce such a plot gift...

 

[Ser Not Appearing]

Considering his leisurely walk through swarming wights during Hardhome, he's essentially un-swarmable... until they have him get swarmed this episode because plot.

This thread is one of the more intriguing and interesting threads in awhile. Congrats the OP.

[Xarkar]

Make him a huge bow, collect lots of small trees.

He is a living Batista.  He could shoot their army from the other side of the battlefield killing many with each shot.   

 

I think he would be best suited to be a seige weapon until him doing so endangers his own side.  Then he joins the battle with a massive club, sweaping riders off their feet and clearing a way to the castle / ramsay etc.

 

 

 

 

 

[King Louis II (KLII)]

1 hour ago, Survivor92 said:

This. Capturing Winterfell during the battle will do more damage than WunWun could ever do on the field. The Bolton's morale will go down, Ramsay will have to dispatch A LOT of troops to take it back... it seems quite plausible that Winterfell would be ill-defended and WunWun could quickly lift Ghost and a few dozen men on its walls. Get Sansa there as well as Davos and some good fighters and the castle can be taken quickly. 

Then Jon can try to do an organized retreat past Winterfell, Davos quickly opens a postern/northern gate (not the one the Boltons came from) and suddenly Jon & co are defending Winterfell against the Bolton army. It makes sense that Ramsay would fall for this, he's cocky and I don't think he knows about WunWun or even Ghost. It would be a brilliant plot for TV, we would even have our "ghost in Winterfell" and we don't need the Riders of Rohan Vale Army to save the day. Or have the Vale army show up just as the Boltons have been locked out from Winterfell, then let Jon, Tormund and Ghost sally out to flank them during the battle like in the last Hobbit movie. 

Imagine how awesome this could be on TV. Ghost slaughtering the Bolton defenders of Winterfell. Ramsay's realization that he shouldn't have left the castle. Davos, the smuggler, who opens a small gate for Jon (that Jon and Sansa of course knew about). And then the Vale army shows up, Littlefinger wasn't needed after all, and we get an awesome sally-out scene from Tormund/Ghost/Jon where Ghost rips Ramsay apart.

Thats brilliant in some many ways.

[jandslegate]

Man based on some of these comments, I really want to see an armored Wun Wun blasting through enemy lines with a flaming tree or something. 

[Wyman Manderly's Meat Pies]

16 hours ago, The Lord of the Waters said:

I have a feeling they will kill Wun Wun off pretty soon, in the same manner as they have killed off the Dire Wolves, for the sole purpose of simplifying the show and not having to spend any time/effort/money on special effects characters.

The real question is can D&D resist the urge to make Ramsay even more overpowered by having him kill Wun Wun and start flaying him mid-battle? 

[Lord Lannister]

As silly as the last Hobbit movie was, I did like it when they used the trolls as catapult mounts.

[Tywin Tytosson]

In battle?

Assuming Wun-wun will obey orders, I'd hold him in reserve with the 'Guard Corps' to be used at a decisive or necessary moment.  ANd to be a 'threat in being' that could dissuade a Bolton cavalry charge or some other tactic.

I would not use him as 'mobile artillery'.  No throwning stuff. How accurate is wun-wun going to be?  what effect is one boulder every 5 minutes going to be?  once the lines clash, he'd have to stop anyways or risk 'friendly fire' casualties.  dont forget ammunition.  where would wun-wun get the boulders?  who is making the giant crossbow arrows?  how are they getting to wun-wun?

 

The Boltons look to be using a Shield Wall like the saxons and vikings did (rfc. The Last Kingdom).  A use for wun-wun would be to be at the front tip of a wedge used to punch a big hole in said Wall.  Wait until after the first clash or 2, and maybe after the Bolton have committed their cav,  then send in this wedge ... punch thru the Bolton's Shield Wall behind wun-wun, and use the hole to destroy/defeat the pieces in detail..  one a hole opens, isn't a  shield wall formation is pretty much dead?

EDIT : one thing that would would concern me (and my use of wun-wun) that wun-wun 'going down' could very well be a morale breaker for the wildlings if not the whole 'Stark army'.  not as bad as jon or tormund or sansa going down, but not good regardless.  therefore, I would not risk wun-wun in direct combat until I needed him.

 

[romantic]

Human-fist sized rocks hurled with force would be enough to hurt most people so Wun Wun only needs to throw stones/small rocks to incapacitate not kill. He needs handfuls of stones and branches to fling that won't tire him out quickly. He doesn't need to kill people outright he only needs to stop them fighting effectively and break their lines for Jon's army. Soldiers might ignore dead comrades and keep fighting but they may not ignore injured friends. 

[ricardoromell]

Give him a ball and chain ... I mean a massive ball and a massive chain... he will be great to disturb infantry in a medium range with radial swing/spins with such weapons. Also he would be great to distress cavalry. Horses would most likely be unsettled by his presence. 

[Quoth]

Excellent ideas all. I've nothing to contribute tactics wise.

While viewing the preview and seeing Wun-Wun, was I the only one who flashed back to the Avengers movie?

Loki: I have an army

Tony Stark: We've got a Hulk.

[The Chequered Raven]

On 14.6.2016 at 10:39 AM, Hodor's Aunt said:

I would build him a giant crossbow with giant arrows. Hence his size he could fire from behind over the battlefield in the midst of the enemy. He could even try to aim at Ramsey or other commanders. Imagine the leader of an army gets hit by an arrow of the size of a little tree. Now that should shake the moral of the force.

This!

As was said, having him in the front row would be a waste of his abilities.

And, as was said as well - limited CGI-budget may be the reason of his death...
(those f***ng dragons are expensive!)

[dbunting]

Not using Wun Wun would be a waste. He could hurl bowling ball or cannon ball sized rocks from a distance and inflict major damage. Most canon balls fired into a formation hit more than just one person, the people in the back have no clue it is coming and can't avoid it. From the previews we see the Bolton army is in classic formation and would be very vulnerable to this.

[draevan13]

We've seen a Bolton shield wall pushing back the Wildlings in both the season premiere and episode 9 trailers. I would use Wun Wun to break that shield wall, since I don't see the Wildlings being about to break it alone.

[ErasmusF]

21 hours ago, Xarkar said:

Make him a huge bow, collect lots of small trees.

He is a living Batista.  He could shoot their army from the other side of the battlefield killing many with each shot.   

 

I think he would be best suited to be a seige weapon until him doing so endangers his own side.  Then he joins the battle with a massive club, sweaping riders off their feet and clearing a way to the castle / ramsay etc.

 

Arrows are worthless against thousands of men forming a shield wall. There is a reason why shield wall fighting dominated from Roman times to the invention of the cannon. 

Wun Wun's best use would be to break up shield walls and cavalry charges, limiting the enemy's ability to advance, hold ground, and outflank the smaller army. The entire army should stay on the border of the woods, just inside the woods where there is cover, or just out of arrow range. You would not need boulders. I would imagine some larger rocks would do the trick. I am not sure how that would be any less tiring than drawing a huge bow and certainly faster than a crossbow which would be the least effective choice. And throwing is almost certainly the most accurate option.  

Yes, he would get tired eventually. But in the mean time he would totally disorganize the enemy. In case you missed any of Jon's discussions with Mance on why the Wildlings could never beat a smaller band of NW, this was the point. The NW were organized and could carry out battle tacitcs whereas the Wildlings were disorganized. 

A vanguard without a shield wall is worthless. A bunch of archers randomly shooting are much less effective than if they are concentrating their fire on a tactical target. Arrows suck at accuracy beyond a few meters, and most of these archers probably aren't all that well trained either. Mounted cavalry are not as effective if they can't get quickly to a new position because they are dodging projectiles. 

When he is too tired, send him to flank the enemy and try to take out the back with a club. He'll need some cavalry to help.   

[Xarkar]

12 minutes ago, ErasmusF said:

Arrows are worthless against thousands of men forming a shield wall. There is a reason why shield wall fighting dominated from Roman times to the invention of the cannon. 

Wun Wun's best use would be to break up shield walls and cavalry charges, limiting the enemy's ability to advance, hold ground, and outflank the smaller army. The entire army should stay on the border of the woods, just inside the woods where there is cover, or just out of arrow range. You would not need boulders. I would imagine some larger rocks would do the trick. I am not sure how that would be any less tiring than drawing a huge bow and certainly faster than a crossbow which would be the least effective choice. And throwing is almost certainly the most accurate option.  

Yes, he would get tired eventually. But in the mean time he would totally disorganize the enemy. In case you missed any of Jon's discussions with Mance on why the Wildlings could never beat a smaller band of NW, this was the point. The NW were organized and could carry out battle tacitcs whereas the Wildlings were disorganized. 

A vanguard without a shield wall is worthless. A bunch of archers randomly shooting are much less effective than if they are concentrating their fire on a tactical target. Arrows suck at accuracy beyond a few meters, and most of these archers probably aren't all that well trained either. Mounted cavalry are not as effective if they can't get quickly to a new position because they are dodging projectiles. 

When he is too tired, send him to flank the enemy and try to take out the back with a club. He'll need some cavalry to help.   

Yes a shield wall makes arrows next to worthless, when said arrows are regular arrows.  If WunWun had a giant sized bow, his arrows would be very similar to a ballista arrow.  This would likely go right though any shield it was shot at.

 

WunWun would likely be able to shoot his arrows a greater distance.  So he could start shooting before the battle starts, and hit from across the battlefield.  If he has any aim he could potentially hit an important target.    hell if he grabbed a handful of stones and chucked them he could rain death from above on lots of men causing chaos.  If only they had some pots of wildfire he could hurl them into the enemy army!

 

I suspect he will simply be a large fighter when the fighting happens.

[King Perkis]

2 minutes ago, Xarkar said:

Yes a shield wall makes arrows next to worthless, when said arrows are regular arrows.  If WunWun had a giant sized bow, his arrows would be very similar to a ballista arrow.  This would likely go right though any shield it was shot at.

18 minutes ago, ErasmusF said:

Arrows are worthless against thousands of men forming a shield wall. There is a reason why shield wall fighting dominated from Roman times to the invention of the cannon. 

 

 

In the battle of the Wall a giant shoots an arrow 700 ft. up, hits a guy, send him flying, and he drops down 700ft. and is impaled on the battlefield of Castle Black. So to say arrows would be useless against a shield wall, if fired by Wun Wun, doesn't seem to make a whole lot of sense. The amount of force he would generate would kill/maime the first couple guys and knock over a couple more behind

[ErasmusF]

1 minute ago, Xarkar said:

Yes a shield wall makes arrows next to worthless, when said arrows are regular arrows.  If WunWun had a giant sized bow, his arrows would be very similar to a ballista arrow.  This would likely go right though any shield it was shot at.

 

WunWun would likely be able to shoot his arrows a greater distance.  So he could start shooting before the battle starts, and hit from across the battlefield.  If he has any aim he could potentially hit an important target.    hell if he grabbed a handful of stones and chucked them he could rain death from above on lots of men causing chaos.  If only they had some pots of wildfire he could hurl them into the enemy army!

 

I suspect he will simply be a large fighter when the fighting happens.

So your plan is to knock out one Bolton fighter at a time? Well, better get him 10,000 arrows, and swamp up the entire battlefield so it takes them a few days to advance. Yikes. Someone tell Euron to quit building those 1,000 ships because John Snow needs all the trees in Westeros.

The other drawback to your plan is that it requires 2 planes of accuracy - you have to hit the shield wall with L/R accuracy as well as depth. Ever seen an arrow fall short of its target? Sticks right in the ground. But a stone rolls, and so even a miss can cause some disruption. 

You're also overestimating the range of a ballista/arrow relative to a rock. In most cases, the trebuchet technique will outdistance the ballista and hold it's inertia better than an arrow, which loses velocity at long ranges.  

 

 

One option I hadn't heard was to use an atlatl to throw the rocks, jai alai style. That would reduce fatigue and improve velocity. 

 

https://prezi.com/fx3wuvl7fatv/ballista-mangonel-trebuchet/