How would you use Wun Wun in battle?

[yakisikli123]

Are they no other giants like him, they said in previous episodes about hundreds of wildlings and hundreds of giants and likewise, where are they.

[MilesJames]

1 hour ago, yakisikli123 said:

Are they no other giants like him, they said in previous episodes about thousands of wildlings and thousands of giants and likewise, where are they.

Wun Wun is the largest giant by far, they said there were hundreds of giants. Hardhome got most of the wildings killed. If they still have a good amount of giants they should just do a giant charge. I am pretty sure Mythical creatures the boltons don't even believe in charging them would cause Morale would be so low that the boltons would break before the battle even began.

[Xarkar]

1 hour ago, ErasmusF said:

So your plan is to knock out one Bolton fighter at a time? Well, better get him 10,000 arrows, and swamp up the entire battlefield so it takes them a few days to advance. Yikes. Someone tell Euron to quit building those 1,000 ships because John Snow needs all the trees in Westeros.

The other drawback to your plan is that it requires 2 planes of accuracy - you have to hit the shield wall with L/R accuracy as well as depth. Ever seen an arrow fall short of its target? Sticks right in the ground. But a stone rolls, and so even a miss can cause some disruption. 

You're also overestimating the range of a ballista/arrow relative to a rock. In most cases, the trebuchet technique will outdistance the ballista and hold it's inertia better than an arrow, which loses velocity at long ranges.  

 

 

One option I hadn't heard was to use an atlatl to throw the rocks, jai alai style. That would reduce fatigue and improve velocity. 

 

https://prezi.com/fx3wuvl7fatv/ballista-mangonel-trebuchet/

 

Yes, a Trebuchet is going to be mroe effective than an arrow, but WunWun is not a Trebuchet.  What would be more effective in the hands of a human.  A stone, (the largest he can throw) or a bow& Arrow.   The arrow is going to have much greater range, velocity and power behind it, because it is using the bow to increase the users power.

Think of this, if you have a human, and he throws a stone as far as he possibly can, he might get what, 100-150 feet with very little accuracy, and also very ltitle force (the stone would need to be relativly small in order to go that distance).

Now give the same person a bow and arrow, and they can easily shoot 300-500 feet (or more) with the same accuracy.  At 100 feet, the bow is going to be VERY accurate, with far more force than the stone.  However it wont penetrate a sheild.

 

Wun Wun could very easily fire some arrows into the enemy ranks that have some kind of oil on them to wreak havok on the lines.  If he was going for a direct horizontal shot he would take out multiple people per shot.  He could then stop shooting his arrow and go to somethign else (large boulder) when the charge starts.\

 

 

BTW Wiki says Trebuchet range is about 300 meters, ballista max range was 460m...   Longbow seems to be about 328m range.  So a giant, with a giant longbow is likely going to have much greater range than 328m

[MilesJames]

4 minutes ago, Xarkar said:

Yes, a Trebuchet is going to be mroe effective than an arrow, but WunWun is not a Trebuchet.  What would be more effective in the hands of a human.  A stone, (the largest he can throw) or a bow& Arrow.   The arrow is going to have much greater range, velocity and power behind it, because it is using the bow to increase the users power.

Think of this, if you have a human, and he throws a stone as far as he possibly can, he might get what, 100-150 feet with very little accuracy, and also very ltitle force (the stone would need to be relativly small in order to go that distance).

Now give the same person a bow and arrow, and they can easily shoot 300-500 feet (or more) with the same accuracy.  At 100 feet, the bow is going to be VERY accurate, with far more force than the stone.  However it wont penetrate a sheild.

 

Wun Wun could very easily fire some arrows into the enemy ranks that have some kind of oil on them to wreak havok on the lines.  If he was going for a direct horizontal shot he would take out multiple people per shot.  He could then stop shooting his arrow and go to somethign else (large boulder) when the charge starts.\

 

 

BTW Wiki says Trebuchet range is about 300 meters, ballista max range was 460m...   Longbow seems to be about 328m range.  So a giant, with a giant longbow is likely going to have much greater range than 328m

Espically since wun wun is a giant giant. 

[ErasmusF]

1 hour ago, Soccer69 said:

In the battle of the Wall a giant shoots an arrow 700 ft. up, hits a guy, send him flying, and he drops down 700ft. and is impaled on the battlefield of Castle Black. So to say arrows would be useless against a shield wall, if fired by Wun Wun, doesn't seem to make a whole lot of sense. The amount of force he would generate would kill/maime the first couple guys and knock over a couple more behind

Man I am just not getting this. At the Wall, the NW had a superior position, and it would not be reached by the attackers. Bear in mind these attackers were butt stupid for not sending parties to scale undefended parts of the wall and then attack from the sides.

Of course a giant shooting huge arrows is going to disrupt a shield wall. But shooting one guy at a time doesn't do much. Even under the best circumstances the arrow would only take out a man and possibly someone behind him. 

That guy moves to the back and the other guys form back up around him. It would take a while and a lot of accuracy to do much damage to a shield wall in this manner. 

That's why the Romans formed up and struck with their pilums in an organized assault. They could disrupt a section of a shield wall at once.

Compare to a large stone - rather than pure penetration you're likely to get some penetration and then some rattling around behind the shield wall - that's going to take out far more people and disrupt a larger section of the shield wall. 

[chasing the dragons]

On June 14, 2016 at 1:07 PM, Survivor92 said:

This. Capturing Winterfell during the battle will do more damage than WunWun could ever do on the field. The Bolton's morale will go down, Ramsay will have to dispatch A LOT of troops to take it back... it seems quite plausible that Winterfell would be ill-defended and WunWun could quickly lift Ghost and a few dozen men on its walls. Get Sansa there as well as Davos and some good fighters and the castle can be taken quickly. 

Then Jon can try to do an organized retreat past Winterfell, Davos quickly opens a postern/northern gate (not the one the Boltons came from) and suddenly Jon & co are defending Winterfell against the Bolton army. It makes sense that Ramsay would fall for this, he's cocky and I don't think he knows about WunWun or even Ghost. It would be a brilliant plot for TV, we would even have our "ghost in Winterfell" and we don't need the Riders of Rohan Vale Army to save the day. Or have the Vale army show up just as the Boltons have been locked out from Winterfell, then let Jon, Tormund and Ghost sally out to flank them during the battle like in the last Hobbit movie. 

Imagine how awesome this could be on TV. Ghost slaughtering the Bolton defenders of Winterfell. Ramsay's realization that he shouldn't have left the castle. Davos, the smuggler, who opens a small gate for Jon (that Jon and Sansa of course knew about). And then the Vale army shows up, Littlefinger wasn't needed after all, and we get an awesome sally-out scene from Tormund/Ghost/Jon where Ghost rips Ramsay apart.

I like that idea, plus the Vale troops shouldn't be able to make it in time for that battle but if Jon's forces make it into winterfell, the Vale troops could pick them off while they are outside.

[chasing the dragons]

I don't think they have the time nor the resources to arm Wun Wun with massive arrows and a bow.

[chasing the dragons]

I would have Wun Wun throw 3-5 lb stones like buckshot, he would be a major disruption and although a spiked mace or fire mace like Benjen would be best, they don't have the resources or time to build him one.

[King Perkis]

32 minutes ago, ErasmusF said:

Man I am just not getting this. At the Wall, the NW had a superior position, and it would not be reached by the attackers. Bear in mind these attackers were butt stupid for not sending parties to scale undefended parts of the wall and then attack from the sides.

Of course a giant shooting huge arrows is going to disrupt a shield wall. But shooting one guy at a time doesn't do much. Even under the best circumstances the arrow would only take out a man and possibly someone behind him. 

That guy moves to the back and the other guys form back up around him. It would take a while and a lot of accuracy to do much damage to a shield wall in this manner. 

That's why the Romans formed up and struck with their pilums in an organized assault. They could disrupt a section of a shield wall at once.

Compare to a large stone - rather than pure penetration you're likely to get some penetration and then some rattling around behind the shield wall - that's going to take out far more people and disrupt a larger section of the shield wall. 

The NW had superior position (they were ontop of a 700 ft. wall that required an arrow to have enough force to reach that height, plus penetrate basic armor, plus kill the guy, and the giants arrow did all of those things). So, to put that into relation to a shield wall, a shield wall involves a man behind a shield, the shield thickness varies but lets assume it isn't that thick, said man carrying the shield is hit with a larger than average arrow that when shot has enough force to go 700ft. into the arrow, penetrate a man, and then throw that man into the air and carry him to the ground. Also, don't forget said arrow from Battle of the Wall penetrated the wood embattlement he was standing on (actually it destroyed the entire battlement) while still continuing and kill the man. So shooting an arrow around 400-450 feet, in a straight line at the shield wall or just a line of men, will not only go through the first guy but depending on the length and the fact that it can impale people, probably 2-3 men and then continue with force to knock down 1 or 2 others. So, that arrow just took out 5 people. And to answer the next question, if a giant is shooting an arrow in a straight line, yes, Jon should order his men not to be in the way of the arrows path.

Also, I think you're putting way too much hope in the large stones force of just continuing after hitting a shield wall. If the wall doesn't stop the rock all together, the men can simply move to the side, or after hitting the first couple will probably stop. Where as the arrow won't stop until it hits something stronger or loses momentum.

[King Perkis]

3 minutes ago, chasing the dragons said:

I don't think they have the time nor the resources to arm Wun Wun with massive arrows and a bow.

The NW in the battle of the wall used a scorpion or battlist (whatever) which seems to say that if those shots fit the arrow they'll work. Also, the giants were already using bow/arrow at the battle. Also, Ygritte literally made a bunch of arrows while sitting around waiting for battle on Castle Black, so if a couple people who know how to make regular arrows just work together I don't see it being too time consuming.

2 minutes ago, chasing the dragons said:

I would have Wun Wun throw 3-5 lb stones like buckshot, he would be a major disruption and although a spiked mace or fire mace like Benjen would be best, they don't have the resources or time to build him one.

Your statement for lack of resources (if it applies to bow/arrows) has to apply here if you're gonna say it.

[chasing the dragons]

1 minute ago, Soccer69 said:

Your statement for lack of resources (if it applies to bow/arrows) has to apply here if you're gonna say it.

Agree, the lack of time and resources taints most ideas in this thread but finding rocks has got to be easier than making giant arrows (with metal tips?) for a Giant to use on his newly made giant sized bow.

[ErasmusF]

1 minute ago, chasing the dragons said:

Agree, the lack of time and resources taints most ideas in this thread but finding rocks has got to be easier than making giant arrows (with metal tips?) for a Giant to use on his newly made giant sized bow.

LMAO

[King Perkis]

1 minute ago, chasing the dragons said:

Agree, the lack of time and resources taints most ideas in this thread but finding rocks has got to be easier than making giant arrows (with metal tips?) for a Giant to use on his newly made giant sized bow.

I mean idk but the man power required to make the arrows has to be similar to gathering the rocks (depending on the size of the rock). If we're sticking with the 3-5 lbs., that would probably make that easier to do than the arrows.

[ErasmusF]

13 minutes ago, Soccer69 said:

The NW had superior position (they were ontop of a 700 ft. wall that required an arrow to have enough force to reach that height, plus penetrate basic armor, plus kill the guy, and the giants arrow did all of those things). So, to put that into relation to a shield wall, a shield wall involves a man behind a shield, the shield thickness varies but lets assume it isn't that thick, said man carrying the shield is hit with a larger than average arrow that when shot has enough force to go 700ft. into the arrow, penetrate a man, and then throw that man into the air and carry him to the ground. Also, don't forget said arrow from Battle of the Wall penetrated the wood embattlement he was standing on (actually it destroyed the entire battlement) while still continuing and kill the man. So shooting an arrow around 400-450 feet, in a straight line at the shield wall or just a line of men, will not only go through the first guy but depending on the length and the fact that it can impale people, probably 2-3 men and then continue with force to knock down 1 or 2 others. So, that arrow just took out 5 people. And to answer the next question, if a giant is shooting an arrow in a straight line, yes, Jon should order his men not to be in the way of the arrows path.

Also, I think you're putting way too much hope in the large stones force of just continuing after hitting a shield wall. If the wall doesn't stop the rock all together, the men can simply move to the side, or after hitting the first couple will probably stop. Where as the arrow won't stop until it hits something stronger or loses momentum.

OK but you're not going to shoot in a straight line. You are going to shoot in an arc, otherwise the arrow hits the ground before it hits the target just due to gravity. Just doing some basic estimation here, at approximately 200 fps flight time on a longbow arrow, at a range of 400-500 feet, you are going to have to aim about 40 degrees above the horizon to account for gravity pulling the arrow down about 100 feet (falling at an acceleration of 32 fps^2 for approximately 2.5 seconds). So you can expect that arrow to be headed downward at about 40 degrees when it hits it's target. If you hit one guy perfectly in the chest, maybe you hit the feet of the guy standing behind him. If you're real lucky. 

Then of course we have this likely possibility, with a highborn lord's weapon training. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QXNC3Hc0gTo

 

[ErasmusF]

19 minutes ago, Soccer69 said:

I mean idk but the man power required to make the arrows has to be similar to gathering the rocks (depending on the size of the rock). If we're sticking with the 3-5 lbs., that would probably make that easier to do than the arrows.

Let's see. 

Rock technique

1. Find a rock

2. Pick up rock

3. Carry rock to cart

4. Drive cart full of rocks to Wun Wun.

5. Repeat. 

Arrow Technique

1. Chop down tree. 

2. Create arrow shaft from tree (helps if you have a rotary lathe and a band saw)

3. Find some iron. 

4. Have a blacksmith forge very large arrowheads. 

5. Affix arrowheads to arrow, 

6. Find a very large bird. 

7. Feather the bird. 

8. Have the fletcher affix feathers to arrow as a flight.

9. Put giant arrow on cart.

10. Drive cart to Wun Wun. 

11. Repeat.  

[bfin]

15 minutes ago, ErasmusF said:

Let's see. 

Rock technique

1. Find a rock

2. Pick up rock

3. Carry rock to cart

4. Drive cart full of rocks to Wun Wun.

5. Repeat. 

Arrow Technique

1. Chop down tree. 

2. Create arrow shaft from tree (helps if you have a rotary lathe and a band saw)

3. Find some iron. 

4. Have a blacksmith forge very large arrowheads. 

5. Affix arrowheads to arrow, 

6. Find a very large bird. 

7. Feather the bird. 

8. Have the fletcher affix feathers to arrow as a flight.

9. Put giant arrow on cart.

10. Drive cart to Wun Wun. 

11. Repeat.  

Omg you killed it. End the damn thread immediately 

[Lord Lannister]

Point at Ramsay and say "Wun Wun, Smash." Let's see how loyal his men are to his cause once he's jelly and there's no Bolton heir.

[Trillmendous]

I'd have him smash the shield wall formation in different parts first. Here's one thing about wun wun from how he looks in the show he actually doens't look that big so throwing trees or boulders actually might not be a very logical move

[King Louis II (KLII)]

6 hours ago, Trillmendous said:

I'd have him smash the shield wall formation in different parts first. Here's one thing about wun wun from how he looks in the show he actually doens't look that big so throwing trees or boulders actually might not be a very logical move

really?

http://www.farfarawaysite.com/section/got/gallery6/gallery9/hires/21.jpg

 

A rock that the size of his hands would open a falanx formation easily. Or will incapacitate 6 people at the same time.

By the way, first cannon balls DID NOT EXPLODE, so they where balls of metal that likked because on the impact. Because they can bounce a little they would keep producing injures. A rock the size of a trash can threw by Wun wun will make massive damage.

So Wun Wun can be a mobile trebutchet, An Assault Tower (to send soldiers inside the walls) and a battering ram (to destroy a gate). Using him as infantry I think it is a waste, and only to be done in a very specific case.

[Sand11751]

WunWun smash! I agree he'd be best at throw huge boulders and such. But I don't see him hanging back in battle. That huge scythe that hangs from the Wall would be great in this hands.