[Book Spoilers] Jaime & Brienne- What's going on?

[jcmontea]

12 minutes ago, Newstar said:

Although I hardly need point it out, Jaime/Brienne shippers probably shouldn't get their hopes up for S8 Jaime/Brienne romance if D&D were indeed planning on killing off Brienne during the wight hunt.

 

Lol. No shippers should get their hopes up next year.

Even the ship whose love song is actually called Truth and whose participants already did the whole lose their loves deal should not get its hopes up. 

Although if your theme is called Truth you probably have a better shot than most. 

[Cridefea]

6 minutes ago, Newstar said:

Although I hardly need point it out, Jaime/Brienne shippers probably shouldn't get their hopes up for S8 Jaime/Brienne romance if D&D were indeed planning on killing off Brienne during the wight hunt.

 

If you and @jcmontea were talking about the older script, I don't think she died. She was talking to the Hound thinking that she was gonna die and then Dany arrives. I have the quote you were looking for. I remember that I thought it was ambiguous in 7x06 but there was something later that made me think she was alive, can't remember what though.

[Meera of Tarth]

56 minutes ago, Cridefea said:

If you and @jcmontea were talking about the older script, I don't think she died. She was talking to the Hound thinking that she was gonna die and then Dany arrives. I have the quote you were looking for. I remember that I thought it was ambiguous in 7x06 but there was something later that made me think she was alive, can't remember what though.

Yes:

The Hound says he'll stay behind and watch over Brienne; it's her sword after all. She tells him not to be stupid. They need the Hound's help more than she does. With him on their side, they may be able to hack their way out. Brienne has resigned herself to dying on this island. Their moment is interrupted by Jorah falling through the ice. He barely manages to climb out again. Soaking wet and freezing to death, he's so cold he can barely move... This would be a good time for Dany to come to the rescue, swooping into view from behind the mountains. Luckily, she does just that.

As I remembered...

[Chickren]

Anyway, I think Jaime and Brienne will probably bang in 8x03.

[jcmontea]

8 minutes ago, Chickren said:

Anyway, I think Jaime and Brienne will probably bang in 8x03.

If it ain’t on a boat doesn’t count

[Le Cygne]

12 hours ago, Meera of Tarth said:

Yes:

The Hound says he'll stay behind and watch over Brienne; it's her sword after all. She tells him not to be stupid. They need the Hound's help more than she does. With him on their side, they may be able to hack their way out. Brienne has resigned herself to dying on this island. Their moment is interrupted by Jorah falling through the ice. He barely manages to climb out again. Soaking wet and freezing to death, he's so cold he can barely move... This would be a good time for Dany to come to the rescue, swooping into view from behind the mountains. Luckily, she does just that.

As I remembered...

Yep, just wanted to add (I'm the one who quoted the above from a copy I saved of the script), there was more.

They wanted to establish Sandor and Brienne aren't enemies (that fight never happened in the books), not that Brienne dies. Which they established in the finale instead.

In the books, GRRM links his two BatB stories (Sansa/Sandor and Jaime/Brienne), and there are a bunch of parallels in the two BatB stories, like rescues from rapists, roses, true knights, etc.

More from the script:

Chaos as the Hound hauls the wight, Pod and Tormund help Brienne, and the others flee, while the sounds of the approaching wights reverberate louder and louder in those rear surround sound speakers. It's slow going with Brienne; she's too tall for Pod and Tormund. They don't have time for slow going. The Hound slings the writhing wight over Tormund's shoulder and helps Brienne himself, leaving Pod on his own as they approach a fork in the path.

[Le Cygne]

8 hours ago, Chickren said:

Anyway, I think Jaime and Brienne will probably bang in 8x03.

You have it down to the episode!

Yeah, this is definitely in the cards. This moment is to set up the big moment where it's Brienne that Jaime really loves.

[Newstar]

15 hours ago, jcmontea said:

Lol. No shippers should get their hopes up next year.

Heh. With the two lead characters now romantically involved with each other (and plenty of drama promised, in between Jon's superior claim to the throne, Jon and Dany being aunt and nephew, Jon's BFF's family members being burned alive by Dany, blah blah blah), I doubt a bunch of other characters will suddenly start hooking up. I've seen posters claim that in Season 8, Sandor/Sansa, Jaime/Brienne, Bran/Meera and Arya/Gendry will all happen. LOL, no. 

The show has always been pretty sparse on romance compared to the books, and I don't expect that to change. Even Grey Worm and Missandei have maybe one scene per season to remind us that they're in love, LOL. I think that if D&D had their way, they'd write out the romances altogether and focus on male/male friendships, which they seem to enjoy writing much more (Jaime/Bronn, Tyrion/Varys, Jon/Davos, wight hunt banter, etc.). It may explain why the writing for Jon/Dany in Season 7 felt so...perfunctory. D&D were probably all "GRRM said Jon and Dany's romance was critical to the endgame, but do we have to? Ugh, fine."

[Meera of Tarth]

 

39 minutes ago, Le Cygne said:

Yep, just wanted to add (I'm the one who quoted the above from a copy I saved of the script), there was more.

They wanted to establish Sandor and Brienne aren't enemies (that fight never happened in the books), not that Brienne dies. Which they established in the finale instead.

In the books, GRRM links his two BatB stories (Sansa/Sandor and Jaime/Brienne), and there are a bunch of parallels in the two BatB stories, like rescues from rapists, roses, true knights, etc.

More from the script:

Chaos as the Hound hauls the wight, Pod and Tormund help Brienne, and the others flee, while the sounds of the approaching wights reverberate louder and louder in those rear surround sound speakers. It's slow going with Brienne; she's too tall for Pod and Tormund. They don't have time for slow going. The Hound slings the writhing wight over Tormund's shoulder and helps Brienne himself, leaving Pod on his own as they approach a fork in the path.

And then they changed the Brienne/Hound scene into that other one from the pre-dragonpit, establishing that they won't be enemies as well!, and also they used that opportunity to establish that Arya doesn't need to be saved by them, either, she also has a story on her own like them.

Basically, with Sansa and Brienne's dialogue  plus Sandor/Brienne's and Jaime/Cersei's, we all realise that Sansa, Sandor, Jaime, Brienne are free to have their own story, finally  Same for Arya..

They are leaving the best for the last.

[Meera of Tarth]

28 minutes ago, Le Cygne said:

You have it down to the episode!

Yeah, this is definitely in the cards. This moment is to set up the big moment where it's Brienne that Jaime really loves.

Yeah, as you said, the Beauty and The Beast stories!

I think Jaime will use these words again in season 8. But this time, he'll realise it's Brienne who he loves. I loved that line.

Even in their last scebne between Jaime and Cersei, Jaime repeats the same words  from Brienne so as to leave the evil Queen. She definitely has an effect on him. 

They'll have to talk about plenty of things. I'm sure, though, he won't talk about the Tarth scene That one was for us

[jcmontea]

4 hours ago, Newstar said:

Heh. With the two lead characters now romantically involved with each other (and plenty of drama promised, in between Jon's superior claim to the throne, Jon and Dany being aunt and nephew, Jon's BFF's family members being burned alive by Dany, blah blah blah), I doubt a bunch of other characters will suddenly start hooking up. I've seen posters claim that in Season 8, Sandor/Sansa, Jaime/Brienne, Bran/Meera and Arya/Gendry will all happen. LOL, no. 

The show has always been pretty sparse on romance compared to the books, and I don't expect that to change. Even Grey Worm and Missandei have maybe one scene per season to remind us that they're in love, LOL. I think that if D&D had their way, they'd write out the romances altogether and focus on male/male friendships, which they seem to enjoy writing much more (Jaime/Bronn, Tyrion/Varys, Jon/Davos, wight hunt banter, etc.). It may explain why the writing for Jon/Dany in Season 7 felt so...perfunctory. D&D were probably all "GRRM said Jon and Dany's romance was critical to the endgame, but do we have to? Ugh, fine."

Lol. Dave and Dan love their bro talk. 

I actually think Jon and Dany was done well. Certainly better than Rob and Talisa where Robb was just infatuated with her from the get go because she was hot and didn’t take his shit, Jon and Ygriette where Jon loved her because... she was sassy and it was the first woman he slept with?!?, or Dany and Drogo where she loved him because of Stockholm syndrome and she faked it till she made it or something. Jon and Dany actually had things in common and we got to see them discover those commonalities.  But that is all very subjective. 

I agree though. I don’t expect next year to see a blossoming of romance left and right. If anything the show has been increasingly tightening its focus around the season 1 characters and I don’t see that changing to explore a bunch of romance between secondary characters. 

[Newstar]

1 hour ago, jcmontea said:

Lol. Dave and Dan love their bro talk. 

I actually think Jon and Dany was done well. Certainly better than Rob and Talisa where Robb was just infatuated with her from the get go because she was hot and didn’t take his shit, Jon and Ygriette where Jon loved her because... she was sassy and it was the first woman he slept with?!?, or Dany and Drogo where she loved him because of Stockholm syndrome and she faked it till she made it or something. Jon and Dany actually had things in common and we got to see them discover those commonalities.  But that is all very subjective. 

I don't think the writing for Jon/Dany was the worst thing ever, or even necessarily bad, but I never got the sense that D&D enjoyed writing it. There was a definite whiff of "Okay, whatever, let's get on with it" to the whole thing, in my opinion.

 

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I agree though. I don’t expect next year to see a blossoming of romance left and right. If anything the show has been increasingly tightening its focus around the season 1 characters and I don’t see that changing to explore a bunch of romance between secondary characters.

Agreed, particularly since most of these supposed pairings--Jaime/Brienne, Sandor/Sansa, Arya/Gendry and Bran/Meera--would be between lead characters and secondary or even tertiary characters. Ain't nobody got time for that.

[Meera of Tarth]

Just now, Newstar said:

I don't think the writing for Jon/Dany was the worst thing ever, or even necessarily bad, but I never got the sense that D&D enjoyed writing it. There was a definite whiff of "Okay, whatever, let's get on with it" to the whole thing, in my opinion.

 

Agreed, particularly since most of these supposed pairings--Jaime/Brienne, Sandor/Sansa, Arya/Gendry and Bran/Meera--would be between lead characters and secondary or even tertiary characters. Ain't nobody got time for that.

by this reasoning Missworm would have never happened.

Sandor is called a main character actually so can't apply and JB will happen...etc. I mean...Tarth gaze??? Mmm.

oh and Missworm happrned and both were tertiary.

[Meera of Tarth]

Just now, Chickren said:

Anyway, I think Jaime and Brienne will probably bang in 8x03.

I agree. I totally see it happening in episode 3 or 4.

[Faera]

6 hours ago, Newstar said:

Heh. With the two lead characters now romantically involved with each other (and plenty of drama promised, in between Jon's superior claim to the throne, Jon and Dany being aunt and nephew, Jon's BFF's family members being burned alive by Dany, blah blah blah), I doubt a bunch of other characters will suddenly start hooking up. I've seen posters claim that in Season 8, Sandor/Sansa, Jaime/Brienne, Bran/Meera and Arya/Gendry will all happen. LOL, no. 

The show has always been pretty sparse on romance compared to the books, and I don't expect that to change. Even Grey Worm and Missandei have maybe one scene per season to remind us that they're in love, LOL. I think that if D&D had their way, they'd write out the romances altogether and focus on male/male friendships, which they seem to enjoy writing much more (Jaime/Bronn, Tyrion/Varys, Jon/Davos, wight hunt banter, etc.). It may explain why the writing for Jon/Dany in Season 7 felt so...perfunctory. D&D were probably all "GRRM said Jon and Dany's romance was critical to the endgame, but do we have to? Ugh, fine."

1

Tee-hee, D&D are such boys! That said, they were the "geniuses" who wanted to have that Robb/Talisa thing and that was a disaster. Maybe they just decided they weren't good at romance that they didn't lift directly from GRRM's own work. I could see some of those pairings you list happening in the book-wise in 'ADoS' territory but... show? Why have romance when you can have an epic dragon battle with wight dragons and other cool animals? Yeah!

Since they went so far off the book, I think D&D tend to make what they view as the secondary characters accessories to the main characters at times. The romantic angle makes for good TV only when there is a guaranteed source of conflict to go along with it. Jon and Dany cannot happen organically - it has to happen at a moment when Bran is free to the narrative the irk-factor of aunt-nephew bonking and the succession conflict to boot.Unless you're "Sam&Gilly", you aren't allowed to just be in a relationship and it is there while you do other things.

I would put real life money on each one of the more popular pairings you listed ending in the tragic death of whichever one of the two can be seen to have the least plot armour for the sake of "feels". The only exception to that might well be Jaime and Brienne if just because it feels as though he's on borrowed time as it is.

[Newstar]

9 minutes ago, Meera of Tarth said:

Sandor is called a main character actually so can't apply and JB will happen...etc. I mean...Tarth gaze??? Mmm.

LOL, if Sandor's a main character, then no one is. Come on. 

 

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oh and Missworm happrned and both were tertiary.

Yes, and that was well before S8, where shit is hitting the fan and there are only six episodes remaining. Secondary characters aren't going to star hooking up left and right. Ain't nobody got time for that.

[Newstar]

2 minutes ago, Faera said:

Tee-hee, D&D are such boys! That said, they were the "geniuses" who wanted to have that Robb/Talisa thing and that was a disaster. Maybe they just decided they weren't good at romance that they didn't lift directly from GRRM's own work.

Heh, fair enough. Maybe they realized they sucked at writing romance, who knows? When the books and show started to diverge more significantly, a lot of the romance got boiled out of the show, so D&D seem to have seized their chance. No Asha/Qarl, no Arianne/Arys, Daario/Dany is downgraded to a FWB-type relationship, etc. etc.

But yes, D&D are such boys. Romance is icky girly shit, ew ew ew! Bromances are well and good, but romance? With feelings and everything? Nasty. They were probably relieved when they got rid of Meera.

 

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I could see some of those pairings you list happening in the book-wise in 'ADoS' territory but... show? Why have romance when you can have an epic dragon battle with wight dragons and other cool animals? Yeah!

Not only that, but why have romance when you can have lulz? Why have Jaime/Brienne when you can have Tormund waxing rhapsodic about the invincible babies he's going to have with Brienne?

 

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Since they went so far off the book, I think D&D tend to make what they view as the secondary characters accessories to the main characters at times. The romantic angle makes for good TV only when there is a guaranteed source of conflict to go along with it. Jon and Dany cannot happen organically - it has to happen at a moment when Bran is free to the narrative the irk-factor of aunt-nephew bonking and the succession conflict to boot. Jon and Dany cannot happen organically - it has to happen at a moment when Bran is free to the narrative the irk-factor of aunt-nephew bonking and the succession conflict to boot.Unless you're "Sam&Gilly", you aren't allowed to just be in a relationship and it is there while you do other things.

Yup. 

 

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I would put real life money on each one of the more popular pairings you listed ending in the tragic death of whichever one of the two can be seen to have the least plot armour for the sake of "feels". The only exception to that might well be Jaime and Brienne if just because it feels as though he's on borrowed time as it is.

Shipping Jaime/Brienne is just cruel at this point. Jaime's clearly doomed, why twist the knife with a love affair with no chance?

[Meera of Tarth]

12 minutes ago, Newstar said:

LOL, if Sandor's a main character, then no one is. Come on. 

 

Yes, and that was well before S8, where shit is hitting the fan and there are only six episodes remaining. Secondary characters aren't going to star hooking up left and right. Ain't nobody got time for that.

Even if you consider Sandor, Brienne or Gendry as only secondary characters you have to agree on the fact that Jaime, Sansa , and Arya are main ones. And all of them except Bri appeared since season 1. So then, is it set on stone that main characters can only have romances with other main ones? Because....who is left frot them btw?

Let's think of the other main characters from the show: Tyrion, Bran, Cersei, Jon, Dany. None of them looks like is gonna have a romance with Jaime, Sansa, Arya.....

If Jonerys went from nothing to love in 3 episodes, the other romances do have time, since there is building up and the epis are gonna be, possibly, even feauture lenght.

[MinscS2]

Yeah I wouldn't really consider Sandor a main-character. Secondary for sure, but main? Nah.

While Missworm (...really?) had their climax in S7, the buildup for their relationship started way back in S4. There had to be a payoff for them sooner or later (otherwise people would've complained about their relation getting swiped under the rug), and early S7 was a good a time as any. 

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If Jonerys went from nothing to love in 3 episodes

Small correction: 4 episodes.
There was nothing between them at the start of episode 3, and their love isn't really 100% open and mutual until late episode 6. 3,4,5,6 = 4 episodes.

The big difference as stated, is that Jonerys are main characters whose union is crucial to the story, and that S7 is not S8. There was still time for buildup in S7, but there really isn't that much time left in S8. 
As for Jamie and Brienne, I'm sure they'll have a moment in S8, but I'm gonna have to agree with Newstar that there won't be time for a plethora of new romances in S8.

[Meera of Tarth]

9 minutes ago, Newstar said:

They were probably relieved when they got rid of Meera.

Again. Meera is not officially gone. We have seen how different preliminary scripts are from the definitive ones. Brienne? Hello?

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Not only that, but why have romance when you can have lulz? Why have Jaime/Brienne when you can have Tormund waxing rhapsodic about the invincible babies he's going to have with Brienne?

  Why???? really?

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Shipping Jaime/Brienne is just cruel at this point. Jaime's clearly doomed, why twist the knife with a love affair with no chance?

Because there's building up and it's an outstanding romance. Even if is doomed, something that is not clear, it's not cruel at all, on the contrary. Good romances are appreciated by people who enjoy them: lots, lots of people, actually. 

Jonerys, if people like them, fine. I think that it was horribly done and they have nothing in common. But hey, if you like them, you can ship them, and it is possibly doomed, but I won't say don't ship them.