Meera of Tarth

[Book Spoilers] Jaime & Brienne- What's going on?

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11 minutes ago, Kaguya said:

I really hope they're endgame..I think they will be .

It has to be. It has to. It has to. I mean, it has to. 

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I would also accept Jaime dying, but not without telling Brienne he loved her, and thanking her for making him a better man. 

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24 minutes ago, Kaguya said:

I would also accept Jaime dying, but not without telling Brienne he loved her, and thanking her for making him a better man. 

Agree. But I'd love to see them confessing their love, both in the books and in the show.

I find it difficult to imagine both of them not dying and living happily ever after, but at least something must happen. I'm confident it will happen in the books, and really hope they are going this way also in the show, finally.

If Jaime has to die I'd prefer him to die as a totally redeemed person, knowing that Brienne loves him, and doing something altruistic  for somebody else.

Edited by Meera of Tarth

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9 minutes ago, Meera of Tarth said:

Agree. But I'd love to see them confessing their love, both in the books and in the show.

I find it difficult to imagine both of them not dying and living happily ever after, but at least something must happen. I'm confident it will happen in the books, and really hope they are going this way also in the show, finally.

If Jaime has to die I'd prefer him to die as a totally redeemed person, knowing that Brienne loves him, and doing something altruistic  for somebody else.

http://i.imgur.com/LN17Nux.gif 

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On 4/7/2016 at 3:24 AM, Ruhail said:

@Ruhail it will happen!! It's a shocking moment! It won't be easy for him but he will figure out that he needs a healthy relationship!!

I mean, the first path is done: he was not OK when Walder said they were similar buddies....it's rushed, and out of place, but 180º changes have happened before! There is proof! Now it's time for JB shippers! Bye twincestors!

Talking about the "damage" dne with Oatkeeper: at least something goog was a result of that:

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-It's yours. It will always be yours.

NCS said it was like: You have my heart. You will always have it.

I hope J and C don't consummate again. And with no lust, there's only space for romantic, true love....that may (and after LSH I will only say may) become something else in the show.

But something will happen. It must happen!!

Edited by Meera of Tarth

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10 minutes ago, Meera of Tarth said:

@Ruhail it will happen!! It's a shocking moment! It won't be easy for him but he will figure out that he needs a healthy relationship!!

I mean, the first path is done: he was not OK when Walder said they were similar buddies....it's rushed, and out of place, but 180º changes have happened before! There is proof! Now it's time for JB shippers! Bye twincestors!

Talking about the "damage" dne with Oatkeeper: at least something goog was a result of that:

NCS said it was like: You have my heart. You will always have it.

I hope J and C don't consumate again. And with no lust, there's only space for platonic, true love....that may (and after LSH I will only say may) become something else in the show.

But something will happen. It must happen!!

I hope so. After Stannis and Davos, ive found Jaime's character to be most eggrecious and ruined in my wonky eyes.

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6 minutes ago, Ruhail said:

I hope so. After Stannis and Davos, ive found Jaime's character to be most eggrecious and ruined in my wonky eyes.

Same for me, Jaime has been the most destroyed character along with Stannis.

I have the theory that showBrienne poisons him with love pheromones, and this has an effecton him for some days, weeks....then it returns to the original Jaime.

The longer they stay together, the larger the effect, but it is.....except for that Edmure scene....it's completely valid. Exception that proves the rule-

That's why they need eachother in the show!!

180º change is coming! pleaseee:bowdown:

Edited by Meera of Tarth

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5 hours ago, Meera of Tarth said:

I hope J and C don't consummate again. And with no lust, there's only space for platonic, true love....that may (and after LSH I will only say may) become something else in the show.

Oh god, please no. Haven't they tortured us enough.

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17 hours ago, Kaguya said:

I really hope they're endgame..I think they will be .

On the surface you'd think they are. She's basically became everything he killed Aerys for being. Add a dead son on top of that. Though knowing the show I think he may well stay in her camp until she does something very random like marry Euron for his fleet or something.

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http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/28/arts/television/game-of-thrones-season-6-finale-jaime-lannister-interview.html?_r=2

NCW thinks that Jaime should leave Cersei, while, at the same time, acknowledges there is love for Brienne, but also states it is unlikely something will happen.

Edited by Meera of Tarth

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I am so confused by everyone's reaction to Jaime this season.  What exactly has he done, that makes you guys think he is so evil and beyond redemption??

Jaime already rejected the person Cersei was in Season 4.  He told her, he would NOT kill Tyrion and he would NOT kill Sansa, and she was hateful for suggesting it.  He sent his sword with Brienne to save Sansa (and Arya if they got lucky).  Instead of sticking with Cersei in KL (what an Cersei-obsessed person would do) he insisted he must save Myrcella himself.  

S6

After getting back he consoled Cersie about Myrcellas death.  What do you want him to do in that situation instead?  He'd be a monster not to.  Do you want him to be a monster?  He doubles down in trying to protect Tommen.  That means defeating their enemy the High Sparrow.  He tries to work with the Tyrells to free Marg and Loras.  All the while Cersei is sweet as sugar to him - apparently reformed by the death of their daughter.  Again - what king of a person would Jaime be - given what he knows - to run off now?  There's no cause whatsoever.  

Ok then Riverrun.  Jaime does everything in his power to end the seige peacibly.  First he tries to talk to BFish.  Then he talks to Brienne who gives him the opportunity to do something he knows Cersei wouldn't like (let the Tully army go north) and he agrees - and would have done it if Bfish wasn't an idiot because plot.  That failed, he decides to talk to Edmure man to man.  First he tries to play the honorable man he really is but Edmures not buying it.  So, he does what he's always done before.  He pivots and turns on "the Kingslayer".  He tells Edmure what Edmure already believes - that Jaime is a monster who will do anything for Cersei including child murder.  Hey this is familiar - oh yeah it's the same thing as in the books.  Why are people complaining again??

Jaime at the end of the season is definitely seeing Cersei as Aerys.  He will break with her.  He may break with her immediately.  Or they may fight awhile first.  

Brienne and Jaime are endgame.  I suspect Jaime will eventually go north with everyone else and be involved in the final conflict.  Jaime may die in Briennes arms.  

 

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As Jaime lay dying in Brienne’s arms, she will say, “You know Jaime, this thing about Davos I just can’t over….”

Jaime with eyes glazed over, “Brienne just kill me. I really just can’t take this anymore...”

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2 hours ago, A spoon of knife and fork said:

I am so confused by everyone's reaction to Jaime this season.  What exactly has he done, that makes you guys think he is so evil and beyond redemption??

Jaime already rejected the person Cersei was in Season 4.  He told her, he would NOT kill Tyrion and he would NOT kill Sansa, and she was hateful for suggesting it.  He sent his sword with Brienne to save Sansa (and Arya if they got lucky).  Instead of sticking with Cersei in KL (what an Cersei-obsessed person would do) he insisted he must save Myrcella himself.  

S6

After getting back he consoled Cersie about Myrcellas death.  What do you want him to do in that situation instead?  He'd be a monster not to.  Do you want him to be a monster?  He doubles down in trying to protect Tommen.  That means defeating their enemy the High Sparrow.  He tries to work with the Tyrells to free Marg and Loras.  All the while Cersei is sweet as sugar to him - apparently reformed by the death of their daughter.  Again - what king of a person would Jaime be - given what he knows - to run off now?  There's no cause whatsoever.  

Ok then Riverrun.  Jaime does everything in his power to end the seige peacibly.  First he tries to talk to BFish.  Then he talks to Brienne who gives him the opportunity to do something he knows Cersei wouldn't like (let the Tully army go north) and he agrees - and would have done it if Bfish wasn't an idiot because plot.  That failed, he decides to talk to Edmure man to man.  First he tries to play the honorable man he really is but Edmures not buying it.  So, he does what he's always done before.  He pivots and turns on "the Kingslayer".  He tells Edmure what Edmure already believes - that Jaime is a monster who will do anything for Cersei including child murder.  Hey this is familiar - oh yeah it's the same thing as in the books.  Why are people complaining again??

Jaime at the end of the season is definitely seeing Cersei as Aerys.  He will break with her.  He may break with her immediately.  Or they may fight awhile first.  

Brienne and Jaime are endgame.  I suspect Jaime will eventually go north with everyone else and be involved in the final conflict.  Jaime may die in Briennes arms.  

 

I am ok with Jaime in s4 and I could say ok to Jaime s5 (not the plot itself, but him trying to do something honourable, not the fact that he doesn't ask Cersei if that is the best option).

as for s6 I could be "ok" with Jaime consoling her or Tommen, but not the way he does it, what he says is typical of s1 Jaime "we are the only ones who matter......etc"

riverrun, very similar as you point out, but again, it's Cersei his ultimate onject of obsession and feels normal telling it to Edmure.

as for Cersei being sugar, that's not the case.  She is manipulating him, making him obey her all the time, and saying "I have the mountain" when he is concerned for her safety. I doubt she loves him. In fact, s6 Cersei may only love her children and herself, she might care for Jaime a little, but he is just a device. 

my complain is about that we don't see a redeemed Jaime, we only see parts of him when he is with Brienne, and he doesn't ask himself if what Cersei wants is normal or not, just follows what she commands obsessively, like a puppet. Furthermore, they should have grown apart a long time ago, and we only saw him being more clode to her, in an unhealthy way, more unhealthy than the previous Jaime, considering the circumstances.

 

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1 hour ago, Meera of Tarth said:

I am ok with Jaime in s4 and I could say ok to Jaime s5 (not the plot itself, but him trying to do something honourable, not the fact that he doesn't ask Cersei if that is the best option).

as for s6 I could be "ok" with Jaime consoling her or Tommen, but not the way he does it, what he says is typical of s1 Jaime "we are the only ones who matter......etc"

Jaime is very much a person whose actions speak louder than his words.  On several occasions this season he says something and then does the exact opposite.

He tells Cersei "we are all that matters everyone else can burn for all I care" or whatever.  Then at the end of the season he is OBVIOUSLY HORRIFIED by Cersei doing exactly that.   His entire arc this season could be summed up by those 2 scenes.

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riverrun, very similar as you point out, but again, it's Cersei his ultimate onject of obsession and feels normal telling it to Edmure.

No, that was bullshit with some kernels of truth he fed Edmure.  And he only did it when given no other option for a peaceful surrender.  Exactly as in the book he said what Edmure already believed in order to negotiate a peaceful surrender.  

Cersei tells him that he should go and destroy their enemies to the man at Riverrun and instead he does every damn thing he can to prevent the loss of life.  While still doing his duty to the crown and his family.  

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as for Cersei being sugar, that's not the case.  She is manipulating him, making him obey her all the time, and saying "I have the mountain" when he is concerned for her safety. I doubt she loves him. In fact, s6 Cersei may only love her children and herself, she might care for Jaime a little, but he is just a device. 

Um of course she's manipulating him.  Cersei is very very careful to not repeat the mistakes she made on s4 that alienated Jaime from her.  From Jaimes perspectiv she is reformed.  And that's the only perspective that is important when we judge Jaimes actions.  Don't judge characters by what the audience knows but by what they know. 

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my complain is about that we don't see a redeemed Jaime, we only see parts of him when he is with Brienne, and he doesn't ask himself if what Cersei wants is normal or not, just follows what she commands obsessively, like a puppet.

Not really. Tell me something immoral or evil that Jaime actually did this season, which Cersei commanded him to do.  There isn't one.  Meanwhile he did a lot of quite heroic things.  Some of which C would not approve of.  Like writing Doran to warn him that Cersei would kill Trystane.  Or basically everything at Riverrun (Cersie would prefer he razed the castle probably - Or the deal he almost made with Brienne).  

this is the same Jaime from s4.  He has not changed.  From the info he has, apparently Cersei has changed, and he - like any good man - is giving her a chance.  And doing what's right as he sees it on the daily.

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Furthermore, they should have grown apart a long time ago, and we only saw him being more clode to her, in an unhealthy way, more unhealthy than the previous Jaime, considering the circumstances.

Jaime rejected Cereei in the book because he found out she was cheating and lying, AND because she was a total harpy and bitch to him.  This is a smarter, subtler Cersei in s6.  She is open, vulnerable, and even loving towards him.  Though we know it's all an act he does not.  Especially for Jaime - who is desperate for someone to believe he can change - it would be insanely hypocritical for him not to try to accept Cersei is reforming.

your "should have" applies to the arc in the books only.  In which Cersei is a total bitch to Jaime and he has every reason to leave her.  And where Tommen didn't really need his help (in the show Tommen needs his help desperately).

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49 minutes ago, A spoon of knife and fork said:

Jaime is very much a person whose actions speak louder than his words.  On several occasions this season he says something and then does the exact opposite.

He tells Cersei "we are all that matters everyone else can burn for all I care" or whatever.  Then at the end of the season he is OBVIOUSLY HORRIFIED by Cersei doing exactly that.   His entire arc this season could be summed up by those 2 scenes.

No, that was bullshit with some kernels of truth he fed Edmure.  And he only did it when given no other option for a peaceful surrender.  Exactly as in the book he said what Edmure already believed in order to negotiate a peaceful surrender.  

Cersei tells him that he should go and destroy their enemies to the man at Riverrun and instead he does every damn thing he can to prevent the loss of life.  While still doing his duty to the crown and his family.  

Um of course she's manipulating him.  Cersei is very very careful to not repeat the mistakes she made on s4 that alienated Jaime from her.  From Jaimes perspectiv she is reformed.  And that's the only perspective that is important when we judge Jaimes actions.  Don't judge characters by what the audience knows but by what they know. 

Not really. Tell me something immoral or evil that Jaime actually did this season, which Cersei commanded him to do.  There isn't one.  Meanwhile he did a lot of quite heroic things.  Some of which C would not approve of.  Like writing Doran to warn him that Cersei would kill Trystane.  Or basically everything at Riverrun (Cersie would prefer he razed the castle probably - Or the deal he almost made with Brienne).  

this is the same Jaime from s4.  He has not changed.  From the info he has, apparently Cersei has changed, and he - like any good man - is giving her a chance.  And doing what's right as he sees it on the daily.

Jaime rejected Cereei in the book because he found out she was cheating and lying, AND because she was a total harpy and bitch to him.  This is a smarter, subtler Cersei in s6.  She is open, vulnerable, and even loving towards him.  Though we know it's all an act he does not.  Especially for Jaime - who is desperate for someone to believe he can change - it would be insanely hypocritical for him not to try to accept Cersei is reforming.

your "should have" applies to the arc in the books only.  In which Cersei is a total bitch to Jaime and he has every reason to leave her.  And where Tommen didn't really need his help (in the show Tommen needs his help desperately).

- exactly. He says something and then does the opposite. he is not written as a consistent character. Best example, he changes a lot when he is with Brienne.

- Did I say I had a problem with Riverrun? Only the sentence "I would do anything for Cersei" , paraphrasing. Maybe I didn't say it properly but I was referring to that. In fact, that arc is well-written and shows that Jaime is not as stupid as he was written in KG episodes of s6. (A little bit of inconsistency again here, but it was a relief) and yes, as I said, very similar to the books.

-something immoral? I wasn't referring to that, but that he hasn't completed the process, because to complete that he should be away from Cersei, and know who she really is. In the show, until the last episode Cersei is written in a whiter version so I didn't expect him to change 180 degrees as quickly, but questioning himself why was she condemned, or why does she have a Frankengregor monster as a toy, for instance, would be valuable. In fact, the mere fact of him being more tied to Cersei, instead of following the books is a big thing itself. But, as I said, Cerseis is written differently and there is a HUGE plothole of Cersei's sins, that Jaime don't know. Or should we believe that he believes 100x100 in her sister and there is nothing more? I could try to understand your point about tat he wants to be believe that she is reformed, but.......... Even so, he should ask questions, we should see that and " I have the Mountain" atittude doesn't suggest she is changed for good.

-I don't hink she is loving towards Jaime, but that is a subjective opinion.

-It doesn't apply only to the arc of the books because of that HUGE plot hole that hasn't been addressed yet in the show. I understand that Show Cersei is (well.....was) more human than book Cersei, but Show Jaime didn't use to be as stupid.

Edited by Meera of Tarth

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11 hours ago, Meera of Tarth said:

- exactly. He says something and then does the opposite. he is not written as a consistent character. Best example, he changes a lot when he is with Brienne.

It's super normal and human to say one thing and then do the opposite.  It's not "inconsistent characterization".  It is literally in his character to say (and think) shit he doesn't mean and then his actions speak the real truth.  

Think of the scene in the books where Jaime is thinking about how he should probably just leave Brienne In the river but then before he knows it, he's pulling her onto the boat. 

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- Did I say I had a problem with Riverrun? Only the sentence "I would do anything for Cersei" , paraphrasing. Maybe I didn't say it properly but I was referring to that.

I'm saying that line to Edmure was Jaime quite intentionally playing the Kingslayer.  In show verse everyone thinks Jaime and Cersei come in a package - in fact everyone seems to know about.  That's part of the act - and there's a lot on the line for Jaime given Brienne is inside Riverrun.  He has to be as convincing as he possibly can.

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 In fact, that arc is well-written and shows that Jaime is not as stupid as he was written in KG episodes of s6. (A little bit of inconsistency again here, but it was a relief) and yes, as I said, very similar to the books.

-something immoral? I wasn't referring to that, but that he hasn't completed the process, because to complete that he should be away from Cersei, and know who she really is.

So your problem is that you want the plot to be the same as in the books.  Not that Jaimes character is badly written.  

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In the show, until the last episode Cersei is written in a whiter version so I didn't expect him to change 180 degrees as quickly, but questioning himself why was she condemned,

I would guess he knows something about this but is willing to forgive Cersei the mistake of arming the HS and assumes Lancel is lying and Cersei was forced to confess given Lancel is a little Zealot now

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or why does she have a Frankengregor monster as a toy, for instance, would be valuable. In fact, the mere fact of him being more tied to Cersei, instead of following the books is a big thing itself. But, as I said, Cerseis is written differently and there is a HUGE plothole of Cersei's sins, that Jaime don't know. Or should we believe that he believes 100x100 in her sister and there is nothing more?

No, it's a bit more complicated than that and again, look at his actions.  He sees a change in Cersei and hopes to cultivate it but he also knows she is pretty ruthless and consistently acts to temper that, or to direct it towards targets that actually deserve it.  

i don't see why Jaime not knowing  or not caring about Cerseis sins is a plothole.  Have you ever had a loved one make a terrible mistake they paid dearly for?  Then turn to you for comfort?  That's Jaime with Cersei this season.  

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I could try to understand your point about tat he wants to be believe that she is reformed, but.......... Even so, he should ask questions, we should see that and " I have the Mountain" atittude doesn't suggest she is changed for good.

Cersei wants Jaime out of dodge so she can blow up KL.  Anyway he doesn't have much of a choice since King Tommen ordered him gone.  She knows that projecting confidence is the best way to get Jaime to go.  Anyway What use is Jaime in a trial by combat?  But show Cersei (not Book Cersei) is smart enough to know not to humiliate Jaime by reminding him about that.

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-I don't hink she is loving towards Jaime, but that is a subjective opinion.

In terms of their (fucked up) relationship dynamics she is.  

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-It doesn't apply only to the arc of the books because of that HUGE plot hole that hasn't been addressed yet in the show. I understand that Show Cersei is (well.....was) more human than book Cersei, but Show Jaime didn't use to be as stupid.

I think show Cersei is no less evil than book Cersei.  But she is smarter about how she handles Jaime (now at least).  Unfortunately for book Cersei she was so stupid she alienated even Jaime.  I still think if Cereei wasn't so awful towards Jaime in SOS / AFFC he wouldn't have split with her.  

In season 6 Jaime knows his duty and fulfills it the best he can.  His duty is towards his king and his house.  He is stuck in KL with Tommen and he desperately wants to save his son.  He has to try with Cersei.   He also wants to believe she is a better person than she was because he has loved her.  He can't break with her while he still has these duties - not realistically.  And to just throw those duties away and let his son become a puppet would be deeply dishonorable, and morally wrong.  

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   A spoon of knife and fork said:

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It's super normal and human to say one thing and then do the opposite.  It's not "inconsistent characterization".  It is literally in his character to say (and think) shit he doesn't mean and then his actions speak the real truth.  

Think of the scene in the books where Jaime is thinking about how he should probably just leave Brienne In the river but then before he knows it, he's pulling her onto the boat. 

 

 

I don't think it's normal for a character that has changed to become a knight to say they are the only ones who matter.

It's a whole different thing. He was in the process of changing. Now, he should not be saying those things. Definitely an extremely bad chose of words unless they want to shock us with a new change out of a sudden, which I suspect will happen, considering their last scene together.

 

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I'm saying that line to Edmure was Jaime quite intentionally playing the Kingslayer.  In show verse everyone thinks Jaime and Cersei come in a package - in fact everyone seems to know about.  That's part of the act - and there's a lot on the line for Jaime given Brienne is inside Riverrun.  He has to be as convincing as he possibly can.

 

 

 

As I said, I know it's from the books and he is playing kingslayer too. But for someone who hasn't read the books and has seen 6 episodes of s6 Jaime it's not as easy to understand. They may think he is doing everything only for Cersei. Are they a pack? That's what they chose, to shock us later, but he is diminissed as a mere secondary (and not smart) because of that.

 Moreover, I still complain he had to mention her, why should he if he is changing as you mentioned? Apart from that, convincing? He sounded convincing until he mentioned he loved her sister, that made him more vulnerable, if anything.

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So your problem is that you want the plot to be the same as in the books.  Not that Jaimes character is badly written.

 

I wasn't talking about that, show only version is very inconsistent, with or without the books. I said he is written as a puppet in Kingslanding, especially. But if you don't think he is, I can't make you think the contrary. In my opinion, someone who just follows orders and doesn't question anything is not written as someone witty.

And yes, I would love to see him written similarly to the books. But.... I loved him the first 4 seasons (except for the rape scene). I loved him as a show character before reading the books, after s4. Then I realised that they didn't made his platonic story with Brienne as obvious than in the books "I dreamed of you" but was OK, in fact, I still liked both versions. What I don't like is constant changes of characterisation since s5, but especially s6. I also mentioned that I was OK with Cersei's whiter version.

They didn't make Tyrion confess Cersei's adultery to Jaime because they wanted to make their twincest relationship stay longer. You are assuming a lot of things that I also thought, but the problem is that these shouldn't be assumptions or speculation, or happening offscreen. An scene with Cersei confessing to Jaime she is guilty of anything, or either, that she is guilty of something and Jaime deciding to be bitter but also conforting her, having issues, or pardoning her, would have been more effective for his arc. He is a mere secondary until Riverrun. But they wanted to shock us with the Mad Queen Scene and Jaime looking furious. It doesn't make sense. She walked naked in front of everyone!!

Why doesn't he suspect anything? Why are we assuming he pardoned her ALL her sins? And which sins? Too many questions, and that makes Cersei a better written character in comparison, but Jaime becomes a puppet, more secondary than the Mountain.

 

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Cersei wants Jaime out of dodge so she can blow up KL.  Anyway he doesn't have much of a choice since King Tommen ordered him gone.  She knows that projecting confidence is the best way to get Jaime to go.  Anyway What use is Jaime in a trial by combat?  But show Cersei (not Book Cersei) is smart enough to know not to humiliate Jaime by reminding him about that.

 

 

 

Cersei doesn't want to explode everything when Jaime is commanded to leave. Maybe it's her Plan B, but in that moment she is confident she will have trial by combat and that he is not needed, not even to stay with her, she just doesn't care. She just needs himt o conquer the last castle, which will be Tommen's=hers.

 

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I think show Cersei is no less evil than book Cersei.  But she is smarter about how she handles Jaime (now at least).  Unfortunately for book Cersei she was so stupid she alienated even Jaime.  I still think if Cereei wasn't so awful towards Jaime in SOS / AFFC he wouldn't have split with her.  

In season 6 Jaime knows his duty and fulfills it the best he can.  His duty is towards his king and his house.  He is stuck in KL with Tommen and he desperately wants to save his son.  He has to try with Cersei.   He also wants to believe she is a better person than she was because he has loved her.  He can't break with her while he still has these duties - not realistically.  And to just throw those duties away and let his son become a puppet would be deeply dishonorable, and morally wrong

 

 

I can agree with that.

Edited by Meera of Tarth

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20 hours ago, Meera of Tarth said:

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/28/arts/television/game-of-thrones-season-6-finale-jaime-lannister-interview.html?_r=2

NCW thinks that Jaime should leave Cersei, while, at the same time, acknowledges there is love for Brienne, but also states it is unlikely something will happen.

When I posted that on another thread, I mentioned this, but I think it's worth noting here that NCW seems rather frustrated with his character:

Quote

What would it take for him to finally forsake her?

I’ve asked myself that question quite a few times. This is such an extreme world, but I’m sure there are people in your life where you go, why in the hell are these people together? Their relationship is abusive, and why do people stay in that? Or even get addicted to dysfunctional relationships. But I don’t know how far he has to be pushed. If he can forgive her for this, I think he can forgive her for everything. She was responsible for genocide, she forced their last child to commit suicide. On a scale of 1 to 100, with 100 being this is the moment when you have to leave, I think we are at 99.9. But it’s “Game of Thrones,” so you never know.

 

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