RIP Davos Seaworth, the real one true King of Westeros.

[Morna The Maid]

I'm calling it now...the show-runners have just dropped a foreshadowing hint as big as a batch of exploding wildfire in the Ep 9 trailer, and if so it will be a very anguished moment for many people,  for both show fans and book readers, but esp. for book readers. He might be the most beloved--and under-rated-- character on the show next to Jon, the real unspoken hero of the whole series, in spite of all Dave and Dan have done to try to ruin his character in Season 6. I hope this thread turns out to be useless after Sunday, but I have a horrible feeling that it won't. Unfortunately, I think George has also trolled his upcoming death in the books (more on that later)  and so I think his death in Season 6 might be a solid.

 

So I want to have a place where Davos fans can come and grieve, before the episode airs. We need to come to terms with this fact, or at least I do, because we Davos fans will need to go through the 7 stages of grief.

 

Why is Davos such a big deal you ask? Well, I think even show-only people should have a clue by now, since the HBO DVD " History and Lore" extras had Liam Cunnigham giving Davos's book story in character. (If you haven't seen these by now, they're on YouTube, I strongly urge you to do so.)

 

Consider these facts:

1) Davos is the Commoner with the heart of gold. Unlike the books, which give us a fair mixture of action spread between the nobles and commoners, in the show the War of the 5 Kings takes place only in the drawing rooms and palaces and armies of the nobility. You can be forgiven for thinking every commoner in Westeros is either a religious fanatic (in the Sparrow army), a nameless rioter or street thug causing trouble, a cannon fodder extra in some noble's army; once in a while we see a glimpse of a common face that isn't brutish,  savage, or a victim of rape or violence--or a whore. Dave and Dan could care less about the common people of Westeros it seems, even though there are any number of scenes in the book they could have taken that shows them interacting with POV characters like Brienne that shows them in a good light. In the books, commoners feed hungry children; on the show,  if we see them at all they die quickly. (Karsei the Wildling tribeswoman at Hardhome; Brother Ray; Lady Crane, etc. (That last one  absolutely throws me--it might be a record. D/D killing off a certified GRRM character from a TWOW book chapter that hasn't even been officially published yet!! Plus, as she was portraying Cersei nobly, I thought she had plot armor from Dave and Dan for sure,  they love Cersei. Her death was a genuine surprise. Yes, Arya has to get to Westeros but they could have had her just not be there at the time the Waif came calling...)

Davos is a different story though.

Consider he came from the gutters of Flea Bottom, in KL, a child of the streets who had to survive by his wits. By pure luck he was taken away from that life and was taken out to sea where he rose through the ranks by his own wits and finally became a smuggler. During the course of this, he managed to find a wife and they had 7 sons. The oldest 4 died on the Blackwater; the 5th child became Stannis's page and later a squire (but we didn't see Devan on the show).

 

The story of how Davos earned the nickname "the Onion Knight" is well known, but what is less discussed is why he did it. The HBO doc hints at this. Yes, there may have been some self-interest in why he chose to come to Stannis's aid; it may have been a case of "I'm sick of this life, here's a chance for me to move up in the world. If I succeed, maybe he'll reward me." However, considering the dangers involved and he was well aware of what could happen to him if he was caught, there had to be more at work. the HBO doc said that he had seen starvation on the streets of KL and he simply could not sit back and watch anyone suffer and die like that, not even royalty. So he risked his life to feed starving people. He wasn't a politician or a military leader; he wasn't thinking in terms of "what will happen if I prolong the seige of Storm's End."

I don't know about you,but I would not have done it. Stannis to me, as a commoner, would have just been one more POS royalty that the world could do without, and good riddance to all of them. I might have been happy to see him die. What side wins in the war would have mattered little to me; you suffer under all of them. I can think of numerous real-world examples I'd be happy to see starve and die if they ever were and I'd consider it divine justice. But here comes Davos, with an ounce of pity in his heart for those who deserve none.

 

2) He is loyal, courageous and honest in a world where nobody is any of these,and he seems to have been rewarded for that, unlike the show where it's just the opposite. A commoner who rises from the gutters to be a King's Hand and have his own House seemingly by his talents and virtues. This is one of the rare things in the books that gives you genuine hope.

 

3) He is Stannis's conscience...and the audience's, whether book readers or show watchers. (At least until Season  where D/D have turned him into a cipher.) Too many examples here to mention, books and show.

 

4) Like many characters in the books (and unlike the show) he never loses his religious faith, even in his darkest hours. The scene that made me fall in love with the books for life was Davos after the Blackwater in ASOS, clinging to his rock on the island, sick, starving, and near death, trying to decide whether he should die or go on living. On the one hand, he has lost his king, his cause, his 4 strong sons...etc. He should just be completely bitter and disillusioned and cynical at that point, full of hate for everyone and everything. But he is not. He has faith and reasons; it is his selective  hate for Mel and his belief that he abandoned his gods and is being punished for it, and his desire to kill her and be revenged that keeps him going. But through it all, he prays to the Mother, asking for her mercy during his long ordeal. He could have become the atheist that Season 6 has turned him into (and like Stannis became after he watched his parents die) but he didn't;  he could like Job have "cursed God and died", but he didn't. It is more like "If He slay me, yet will I believe in Him." When he sees the ship and determines it is a safe ship that can rescue him, he  prays to the Mother again, thanking her for her mercy, "I still have a king, and a cause, and wife loving and loyal, and I still have sons. How could I have forgotten? The Mother is merciful indeed." (oddly enough this is like Aeron Damphair in the new TWOW chapter George just read at Balticon a month ago.)

 

This scene one of those "fist-pumping moments of joy that restores your faith and hope in humanity" (as someone memorably said in another thread recently) that the books drop on us from time to time, that makes you fall in love with GRRM's tale in spite of all the darkness.  We don't  get anything like it in the show, of course. The book are realistic yet idealistic in  a strange way (as the poster said) whereas the show has taught us all to be completely cynical.  The the conniving, the selfish, the violent, the cruel, are all rewarded and the decent instantly die. And where nobody prays except the fanatics. And chumps like the farmer and his daughter that Sandor robs (in the books it's the opposite.) Davos will probably  die, but George will have him die for a good purpose, and his death will have meaning. This season has not had a good track record of people having good onscreen deaths.

I came to read the books after Season 1, before we saw the magic of Liam Cunningham as Davos. But I already had fallen in love with the character. He is shrewd, , tough and battle-hardened from a life in the streets, but not in a military way. he has the forthright honesty, clear-headedness and intelligence of the peasantry. He is no saint to be sure, but he is still uncorrupted by all he has gone through. You can argue whether he picked the right king to serve, why he worships Stannis after his fingers were taken, why he remains loyal to someone like him; but he is what we don't see in Westeros: a truly decent man. Plus he's a good father and husband apparently.

 

Yet his role in the story seems to have ended. The show many not have any more for him to do; and the books he may die in his mission to save Rickon. In an early chapter of ADWD, Davos in the Manderly prison writes a farewell letter to his wife and asks his gaoler to see it is delivered to her in the event of his death. Then Manderly calls for him and gives him his secret mission to find Rickon. I wonder what will happen to that letter. It seems Davos may not live to see the endgame. And here comes the Season 6 trailer where we see HINT HINT DAVE AND DAN FORESHADOWING! Davos standing at Shireen's pyre, finding the little stag he carved for her (bye bye House Baratheon; now bye-bye House Seaworth--Davos has no other kids on the show, and his wife does not exist.) We remember how Davos said he is not a fighter, and here he is in the trailer charging into battle...fighting with his unmaimed hand. We see Davos looking down at Shireen's pyre; him looking back toward the camera at something (which is Mel's tent I'm sure); and then smash cut to Jon looking at bodies burning on Bolton crosses. *Translation: One more death the Starks will be responsible for.)

 

So I hope this thread isn't needed; but until we find out whether or not, it's time to talk about the greatness of Davos....in the books, and in the portrayal by Liam.

[Red Tiger]

Not buying it

[Victarian Revolution]

where are you drawing this conclusion from?

 

[facelessaryas]

I too, am worried very much for Davos. Arya, Davos and Sam are my favorite characters, show and book. I've been dreading this week. Jon and Sansa will win but with heavy losses. I fear for Tormund and Davos. Liam is such a subtle, yet powerful actor. His facial expressions, the little turns and nods of his head. The way he looks down when he has to say something he doesn't want to. It's just so so good. 

I feel the love in your thread for Davos. I'm right there with ya. I hope, like you said, that this thread will be useless come Sunday. Here's to hoping. 

[YOVMO]

13 hours ago, Morna The Maid said:

He is Stannis's conscience...and the audience's, whether book readers or show watchers. (At least until Season  where D/D have turned him into a cipher.) Too many examples here to mention, books and show.

I never imagined Davos living without Stannis. I see them as having their fates bound to one another. Davos' character on D&D's abortion of a television show lost all meaning once stannis died and as such has seemed absurd and out of place. If the rest of the show made any sense it would stick out like a sore thumb. Fortunately, Davos is insulated by the inanity of the writing across the board.

That said: I do not see a long time passing between the death of stannis and the death of davos in the books.

[Rumy Stark]

Davos is arguably the best character/person in Westeros. His death would be way so tragic (which is probably why it will happen). I'm holding out hope that it won't go down that way, but I agree that he's super at risk.

I am curious why you say it was obvious in the trailer though? 

[Trollosi]

He won't die, we haven't seen his 'seaworth'

[I Am TheSongOf IceAndFire]

the only thing that convinces me Davos will bite the dust is that in the books he's had a fake death, what, twice? Blackwater and White Harbor? Also Stannis almost took his head at one point. Claw island threatened his life. Seems to me he's on borrowed time. 

 

also, I do not believe an onion half with rot is a rotted onion! I hate onions but long live Davos! 

[RhaenysBee]

It is absolutely possible for Davos to die, but the foreshadowing you speak of doesn't make too much sense and isn't based on anything. 

It is also absolutely possible that Davos will be given the storyline of another character which would keep him on the show. 

And I would like to point out that nothing the promo of episode 8 implied (sparrow massacre, Cleganebowl, Jaime vs Brienne fight) actually happened. FrankenGregor killed just one person, Brienne rowed off and the Riverrun surrendered, the Hound teamed up with the brotherhood instead of heading south. 

 

[Red Tiger]

5 minutes ago, RhaeBee said:

It is absolutely possible for Davos to die, but the foreshadowing you speak of doesn't make too much sense and isn't based on anything. 

It is also absolutely possible that Davos will be given the storyline of another character which would keep him on the show. 

And I would like to point out that nothing the promo of episode 8 implied (sparrow massacre, Cleganebowl, Jaime vs Brienne fight) actually happened. FrankenGregor killed just one person, Brienne rowed off and the Riverrun surrendered, the Hound teamed up with the brotherhood instead of heading south. 

 

"Expect nothing from D&D and you will never be dissappointed"

- Greatjon Umber

[Ser Hyle]

17 hours ago, Morna The Maid said:

I'm calling it now...Liam.

Easy there tiger! 

[RhaenysBee]

6 minutes ago, Red Tiger said:

"Expect nothing from D&D and you will never be dissappointed"

- Greatjon Umber

Come on now, give the men some credit. You can totally expect boobs, dick jokes and bad pussy and not be disappointed.

[Fayçal]

hummm

According to spoilers, Davos will carry Rickon's corpse into winterfell after the battle.

So he'll not die, not in this battle at least.

[nickdt]

Davos will not die, since he is the Grey Man, the Smith and thus will forge Black and White (Dany and Jon) together, while forging his own persona of Azor Ahai in the process. The Stallion that Mounts the World, The Prince that was Promised and Azor Ahai are the Three Heads of the Dragon... but the Prince and Azor Ahai will not ride a dragon. I believe the Three Heads are crucial in the War of Dawn. 

[RhaenysBee]

1 hour ago, Fayçal said:

hummm

According to spoilers, Davos will carry Rickon's corpse into winterfell after the battle.

So he'll not die, not in this battle at least.

What's the source of this information? 

[YOVMO]

1 hour ago, nickdt said:

Davos will not die, since he is the Grey Man, the Smith and thus will forge Black and White (Dany and Jon) together,

Davos Peptalker?

[TickTak7]

Was actually discussing this with a friend of mine. 

We've both placed the odds of Davos dying in the next episode at, like, 90%. 

He's served his purpose. 

He was meant to serve Stannis, did so loyally, and Stannis is no more. There's something very conclusive about the scene he's about to have with Shireen's pyre. 

I just wonder whether he enters this battle with literally nothing to lose. He's lost everything, from his king to his children, to his princess. 

And we know how these battles work - someone who the audience can relate to, will die. It's been the case in Blackwater, and Hardhome, and the Battle at the Wall, and will be the case in this battle as well. 

[TickTak7]

1 hour ago, Fayçal said:

hummm

According to spoilers, Davos will carry Rickon's corpse into winterfell after the battle.

So he'll not die, not in this battle at least.

Where is this from? 

Private message if you'd rather not share publicly. 

[HellasLEAF]

One thing is for sure is that I really like Davos and he is perfectly cast as well.  

And also really liking that he has aligned himself with the Starks.  It's a perfect fit.

Hope he sticks around..

[Red Tiger]

2 hours ago, RhaeBee said:

Come on now, give the men some credit. You can totally expect boobs, dick jokes and bad pussy and not be disappointed.

I have NO IDEA what you are talking about