Rory Snow Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 2 minutes ago, JonSnow4President said: His villainy was so annoyingly over the top, with him never suffering any logical consequences from his villainous actions, I don't know how anyone got any sort of payoff from this storyline? Seemed about right to me, just an extension of his father. The Bolton sigil is a flayed man for gosh sakes, of course they're going to be over the top. In the books, Ramsay locked his first wife (Lady Hornwood i believe) in a tower without food for so long she ate her own fingers. Sounds reasonably consistent with something show Ramsay might do. This is simply an over the top character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neds Secret Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 15 hours ago, Elisabetta Duò said: I agree about that (not the usual lythany at the beginning - funny how it's a forum where almost no one but a few memebers can stand Tyrion the place where I hear the biggest complaints about everyone loving him - but i agree about the the rest). The Mereen stuff was awful the whole season and S6 Tyrion was a total disappointment, he had little screen time and no storyline at all (except for releasing the dragons.. but then they didn't pursue that storyline as well.. whatever Tyrion's connection with dragons is - I don't think he's a Targ - we won't find out until later in the series). I wonder why D&D had him come to Mereen so soon if they didn't know what to do with him. I don't care at all about Penny, I don't think they cut his journey to santify him or anything (they just think the viewers are dumb and they are trying to keep it as simple as they can and throw in the least new characters they can.. that's also why they cut Illyrio and had Varys have in his storyline, so that in the end of the season they had to make him run back to Westeros where he is in the books, probably they know he has some business over there), but I think they should have showed us his post-murder depression and at least hint at his suicidal thoughts and then at least the part with Ben would have been nice to see or at least better than the crap we got. They are quite out of character with him at the moment, in general and even in the smallest details (he always worked hard, wine or not, and he had a book in hand, now in a whole year we have never seen him read anything and he spends his days making - badly written and cheesy - jokes with Greyworm and Missandei). Arya is another character whose storyline has been badly written (see episode 8 in particular). Apparently all the characters I love the most have to suffer D&D's bad writing. At this point I'm glad I'm not a Jon Snow fan because he has been dumbed down too. It's not just the characters you love, it's every character, plot and storyline that suffer at the hands of D$D! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonSnow4President Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 10 minutes ago, Rory Snow said: Seemed about right to me, just an extension of his father. The Bolton sigil is a flayed man for gosh sakes, of course they're going to be over the top. In the books, Ramsay locked his first wife (Lady Hornwood i believe) in a tower without food for so long she ate her own fingers. Sounds reasonably consistent with something show Ramsay might do. This is simply an over the top character. His book is over the top too. (Roose isn't closer to a Tywin though, i that it's a cold calculating evil for a purpose, rather than for evil's sake). But Ramsey already deals with poor relations with Northern lords due to his actions. He doesn't kill his father and get rewarded for it by the newly affirmed allegiance of one of the 3 major Northern houses. He's not so perfect he can defend against the Ironborn's best men shirtless, make impossible bow shots, pull off a spec ops mission along the lines of what modern Special forces with remote detonated incendiary devices could perform, etc. There are already consequences for him. Show Ramsey never suffers any, and is only brought down by the Vale getting involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkstream Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 On 6/20/2016 at 5:01 AM, McBaine said: <snip for length> Sometimes I can't even... So good, it's post like this that make watching the show worthwhile, or at least somewhat palatable. Amazing post from start to finish, thank you for many laughs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkstream Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 On 6/20/2016 at 5:26 AM, Randy Bolton said: Joined up just to talk about this episode. Some things that really bothered me during the battle: -Why are none of the Main Characters who are acting as commanders in this battle wearing Helmets? I get that we have to be able to easily identify characters in a visual medium, but they could at least be wearing something open faced. Not just Helmets either, none of them are really wearing any armor of note. Jon seems to have a Coat of Plates on, but that's it. Ramsey, The Lord Paramount of the North is wandering into a battle in nothing but a leather jerkin! They are all wearing the same clothes they wore yesterday! I guess its all fine though, because they all have plot armor that protects them from arrows, except for poor Rickon. -Why isn't Wun Wun wielding a weapon? Even a boulder or a tree would have been more effective then just flailing his fist at the Boltons. He could have easily crushed through that line of spears and gotten them all out with just a simple weapon! I guess CGI budget and plot contrivance are the excuse for this one. I agree with everything except the bolded. I think with Ramsey, armor has the reverse effect than it has for most people. If he was smart he would have been topless with silk pajama bottoms on. I'm sure then he would have been able to stave off the Vale troops all by himself. Well, him and his twenty good men. But of course, the script called for Ramsey to lose in this episode, so they had to at least put him in a leather jerkin to make his loss seem plausible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninerings Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 2 hours ago, Lord Syv Aldlark said: my wife literally asked me who the heck it was. HA! mine too! Not getting to see the Mormont girl talk more smack was a major disappointment not mentioned as of yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkstream Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 On 6/20/2016 at 10:08 AM, SerMixalot said: Why didn't Jon sleep with Melisandra and make a shadow baby? Could have killed Ramsey and saved his brother. He does have royal blood in him as, as far as anyone knows, he is the half brother of King Robb. And don't give me that he don't believe in Rholler stuff, She brought him back from the dead AND could have saved his brother. I think this may have been dealt with off screen. Melisandra might have attempted to seduce Jon with this intention, but accidentally slipped off her red ruby. Jon's subsequent thoughts would have been FUCK THIS, I'M OUTTA HERE, I would rather attempt a solo suicide charge into a raining storm of arrows and stand in the midst of an enemy cavalry charge than tap this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neds Secret Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 16 minutes ago, Darkstream said: I think this may have been dealt with off screen. Melisandra might have attempted to seduce Jon with this intention, but accidentally slipped off her red ruby. Jon's subsequent thoughts would have been FUCK THIS, I'M OUTTA HERE, I would rather attempt a solo suicide charge into a raining storm of arrows and stand in the midst of an enemy cavalry charge than tap this. That's one scene Jon Boy was lucky to have experienceed off screen! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkstream Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 8 minutes ago, Neds Secret said: That's one scene Jon Boy was lucky to have experienceed off screen! Us the viewers as well, to bad we don't have unfaltering good luck as Jon does, maybe we wouldn't have had to see this the first time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkstream Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 On 6/20/2016 at 2:08 PM, Simon Steele said: Maybe, but this is inherently the problem with DnD's storytelling prowess (the directors in their circle). They cannot convey what they intend to on the screen. You have to tune in to their after show to understand what is going on. Sometimes subtly and subversion can be interesting, but in the case of this show it creates confusion in narrative. Consider--DnD's original pilot was such a narrative mess, it had to be almost entirely reshot to make sense. They are poor storytellers. Dany looking to man before she shakes a hand? It could be--should I shake this hand? Should she be kneeling? Either way, it is a "powerful" woman looking to a man for approval. A man she had literally been treating like a child earlier in the episode. Don't forget "powerful" Samsa did this with Theon earlier in the season. It is largely problematic with their storytelling. Women can't seem to decide without looking to men, who often they have previously hated. Right, and then after listening to their ignorant and non sensible answers that often contradict with what the actors or director says, your left even more dumbfounded than the show initially left you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armand Gargalen Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 3 hours ago, JonSnow4President said: His villainy was so annoyingly over the top, with him never suffering any logical consequences from his villainous actions, I don't know how anyone got any sort of payoff from this storyline? That is one of the things that I hated the most about the episode. All the little annoying details (Rickon´s straight running, Wun Wun not being armed, Ramsey showering arrows on his own cavalry...) are there to establish who the bad guy, so we are supposed to enjoy his death. I do not know about others, but I did not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Quork Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 6 hours ago, Simon Steele said: Oh hey, according to actors from the show, Ghost doesn't belong on the battlefield because direwolves wouldn't last in a battle. Just so we all know. Yep, cos Grey Wind never did Robb any good on the battlefield. But they probably forgot that too ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tijgy Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 39 minutes ago, Ser Quork said: Yep, cos Grey Wind never did Robb any good on the battlefield. But they probably forgot that too ... LOL. I just wanted to say this. Grey Wind is an awesome wolf! It is not like both Robb and Jon locked their wolves up because they were too feral. And it is not like even the Battle at the Wall Jon asked Sam to free Ghost to aid them in their fight (during the show...). And it is not like there were several giants and mammoths in that battle. The money went just in those lizards. They even say so the dog bit the dust or something like that. Sigh. It does mean something the Starks are wolves, some of them have wolf blood, ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkstream Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 31 minutes ago, Ser Quork said: Yep, cos Grey Wind never did Robb any good on the battlefield. But they probably forgot that too ... Yeah, It's not like Grey Wind was so effective along side of Robb in the Battle of Oxcross that terrified rumors spread in King's Landing that he attacked the Lannister camp using an entire army of wolves. But hey, I'm not complaining that Ghost wasn't there, the only use of a direwolf d$d have is as something to kill for cheap emotional manipulation of their audience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Quork Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 13 minutes ago, Tijgy said: LOL. I just wanted to say this. Grey Wind is an awesome wolf! It is not like both Robb and Jon locked their wolves up because they were too feral. And it is not like even the Battle at the Wall Jon asked Sam to free Ghost to aid them in their fight (during the show...). And it is not like there were several giants and mammoths in that battle. The money went just in those lizards. They even say so the dog bit the dust or something like that. Sigh. It does mean something the Starks are wolves, some of them have wolf blood, ... I saw that, and I hate them just a little bit more for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Quork Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 12 minutes ago, Darkstream said: Yeah, It's not like Grey Wind was so effective along side of Robb in the Battle of Oxcross that terrified rumors spread in King's Landing that he attacked the Lannister camp using an entire army of wolves. But hey, I'm not complaining that Ghost wasn't there, the only use of a direwolf d$d have is as something to kill for cheap emotional manipulation of their audience. Exactly. I'm hoping Ghost is sitting with Edd, chillin' by the fireside. (At least, for now.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninerings Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 3 minutes ago, Ser Quork said: Exactly. I'm hoping Ghost is sitting with Edd, chillin' by the fireside. (At least, for now.) Yeah, that's pretty much it. There are links earlier in the thread with conflicting stories. One is from the actor that plays Davos where he says that "the battlefield is no place for a wolf" (or something to that effect). The other is from the director I think, where he says that Ghost was originally in the battle "in spades", but that it is so difficult to render and animate that it came down between using Ghost or Wun Wun in the fight, and they went with the giant. Good thing it wasn't Ghost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stark_Contrast Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 4 hours ago, Rory Snow said: Seemed about right to me, just an extension of his father. The Bolton sigil is a flayed man for gosh sakes, of course they're going to be over the top. In the books, Ramsay locked his first wife (Lady Hornwood i believe) in a tower without food for so long she ate her own fingers. Sounds reasonably consistent with something show Ramsay might do. This is simply an over the top character. I don't mind that he's over the top. My problem is that he is over the top the wrong way. Although he is a cruel psychopath he is also streetsmart and deceitful, a good conman, and in the book he succeeds by playing to those strenghts. I think it's ridiculous that he would also be a great warlord and a super ranger. He has neither the experience nor the education. (Nor, in fact, the psyche: why would anyone follow such a person unless under threat, but that is never explained, most northern houses just seem to prefer Ramsay to 8000 years of Stark rule. OK.) Noone as much as lifts an eyebrow for his killing Roose and nothing at all changes because of it, so I guess he's a quite alright lord too. (Except for never noticing that Moat Cailin, the key to the north, has been lost for weeks. Poor Ramsay who only makes one mistake for four seasons, and that becomes his undoing.) And the saddest thing of all Is I think Iwan Rheon was a great cast who caught Ramsay's personality perfectly way back in season 3 when the character still made some sense. What a waste! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeCameFromNorth Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 On 6/23/2016 at 0:02 PM, Darkstream said: the only use of a direwolf d$d have is as something to kill for cheap emotional manipulation of their audience. Then they are failing in that pretty miserably too. I see a lot of comments like: "we didn’t even know Rickon, why we should care he died" (he’s child if nothing else, for crying out loud, how could we not care), so how much of emotional response Shaggy’s death has invoked, or even Ghost’s would, in broader audience? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkstream Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 10 minutes ago, Ninerings said: Yeah, that's pretty much it. There are links earlier in the thread with conflicting stories. One is from the actor that plays Davos where he says that "the battlefield is no place for a wolf" (or something to that effect). The other is from the director I think, where he says that Ghost was originally in the battle "in spades", but that it is so difficult to render and animate that it came down between using Ghost or Wun Wun in the fight, and they went with the giant. Good thing it wasn't Ghost. See, that's all it is with d$d, They don't give a fuck about the characters at all, whether it's one of the main protagonists or just an animal. (in d$d's eyes, to me Ghost isn't just an animal, but a main protagonist in his own right, or at least a part of one.) That comment just highlights what all of us here already know, the characters in d$d's so called "story" are all shallow interchangeable shells and have no bearing on the story aside from being toys for d$d to sadistically play with. The director basically said that they would have killed off Ghost, but for the fact that it was to difficult to film. All they cared about is having a character loved by the audience to pump full of enough arrows to make him look like a porcupine. Just sickening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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