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(SPOILERS) Criticise Without Reprecussion


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In the show, they fucked up a LOT by replacing Jeyne with that idiot for one thing, and then there was absolutely no foreshadowing or anything until the doors shut.  It was also such a trope how Robb and that idiot stood there talking all mushy about how they were naming the baby Eddard a few minutes before she gets brutally stabbed in the stomach.  There was really no reason for any of that except for their pathetic attempt to pull at people's heartstrings.  In GRRM's world, it's more "realistic."  People don't usually get a chance to talk to their loved ones before they die....there aren't any final last words or romantic departures....in the show though, it's pretty common.  Personally, I think the inability to have cheesy final words is much more heartbreaking, but whatever.

 

I completely agree. But even more terrible when the talks don't work out well.

For example ... Myrcella. It was a weird moment, when Jamie and Myrcella had their father-daughter-talk on the ship. For a heartwarming scene there was a connection between those two souls, just a second before Death destroyed their new beginning family-life ... isn't that the most tragic thing possible? No. No, it's not. THIS here is tragic: Jamie tells her he is her father.

Myrcella: What? You mean... I am an abomination? It's true what they say? You monster! GO AWAY FROM ME! WHY IS MY NOSE BLEEDING! Wait... really... why is my nose bleeding... help? Help? chhhrrrrhllllp......

What an impact that would have had. Having your dying child in your arms who just started to really hate you.

Another example the goodbye of the brothers. Tyrion and Jamie in the dungeon. A kiss, a hug, a sunny goodbye. In the book... their goodbye is a desaster. My ears are still ringing and I read that years ago. There is so much tragedy, even without people dying.

 

 

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10 minutes ago, twilight said:

 

I completely agree. But even more terrible when the talks don't work out well.

For example ... Myrcella. It was a weird moment, when Jamie and Myrcella had their father-daughter-talk on the ship. For a heartwarming scene there was a connection between those two souls, just a second before Death destroyed their new beginning family-life ... isn't that the most tragic thing possible? No. No, it's not. THIS here is tragic: Jamie tells her he is her father.

Myrcella: What? You mean... I am an abomination? It's true what they say? You monster! GO AWAY FROM ME! WHY IS MY NOSE BLEEDING! Wait... really... why is my nose bleeding... help? Help? chhhrrrrhllllp......

What an impact that would have had. Having your dying child in your arms who just started to really hate you.

Another example the goodbye of the brothers. Tyrion and Jamie in the dungeon. A kiss, a hug, a sunny goodbye. In the book... their goodbye is a desaster. My ears are still ringing and I read that years ago. There is so much tragedy, even without people dying.

 

 

I so agree.  There is real human tragedy in the books - there is now only contrived tragedy-lite in the show.

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24 minutes ago, twilight said:

 

I completely agree. But even more terrible when the talks don't work out well.

For example ... Myrcella. It was a weird moment, when Jamie and Myrcella had their father-daughter-talk on the ship. For a heartwarming scene there was a connection between those two souls, just a second before Death destroyed their new beginning family-life ... isn't that the most tragic thing possible? No. No, it's not. THIS here is tragic: Jamie tells her he is her father.

Myrcella: What? You mean... I am an abomination? It's true what they say? You monster! GO AWAY FROM ME! WHY IS MY NOSE BLEEDING! Wait... really... why is my nose bleeding... help? Help? chhhrrrrhllllp......

What an impact that would have had. Having your dying child in your arms who just started to really hate you.

Another example the goodbye of the brothers. Tyrion and Jamie in the dungeon. A kiss, a hug, a sunny goodbye. In the book... their goodbye is a desaster. My ears are still ringing and I read that years ago. There is so much tragedy, even without people dying.

 

 

I felt more emotion reading the bolded part of your post than d$d have evoked in me from the past two seasons combined.

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9 hours ago, Lord Syv Aldlark said:

HahahahhHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH 10 MILLION DOLLARS AND EPISODE.

 

AND WE GET A FLOPPY SHIT SWORD HAHAHAHAAHAHAAHHAAHHAHAHHAHAHHAAHAHAH

I saw that too. Fucking awesome, isn't it? My 13 year old son has toy swords he bought from the Renaissance Festival that are better quality than Jon's floppy sword. 

Chances are this is another lame fish jab at the hated Starks just like Tyrion's witty joke was supposed to be. 

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GRRM's brand is imho his incredible sense for tragedy and cruelty. And I don't mean Ramsay, I always felt that was too much a different genre. More Hannibal Lecter than actual Fantasy. Never liked that in the books.

But GRRM's true cruelty is an emotional one. Tyrion telling Jamie that he killed Jeoff; Tyvin forcing Tyrion to rape his wife; Robb being killed, possibly warging into his own wolf, then being killed again; Sansa being forced-married to the little monster of lannister, hero Tyrion married to a child that hates him, who did not even bend down so that he can place the cloak of protection around her shoulders at the marriage ceremony, the whole chapter was a nightmare... There is a lot of death there in the books, but in my opinion the emotional distress is far worse. Jamie is a wonderful example. The guy is empty. Isn't that real tragedy? Your own son is murdered and you feel nothing about it. That is the real horror of this series.

There is one story I read here, a false but strong one. Someone had the idea that the old cat (Belarion?) in the red keep is the cat of Rhaegar's little daughter, 4yo princess Rhaenys, who might have been a warg and warged into the cat, while being killed. The cat was left alone, so the little girl was stuck and her soul became the cat. This story is wrong to my belief. But nevertheless is this maybe the saddest thing I have ever read in my life. I wish it was true. And I write this, because this would be such a wonderful example for something GRRM could have written. This is a very unique cruelty, that made me addicted to the books. I literally feel the beginning of tears while thinking about this old cat. This really gets me. And I know a lot of stuff, I'm old, I watched a million movies and read a million books. I am not easily reached, I already know everything. But GRRM got me with that peculiar style of cruelty.

I know, the show cannot replicate that. They have a lot of time, but they have the limitations of the medium. But you can recognize if someone makes the effort. They did not.

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You know what I realized? The show HATES with a passion ever tipping the viewer what is going to happen. Cersei and the Tyrell's lie a plan to prevent walk of shame? Tommen goes there without anyone knowing and "surprises" us. Jon sets up a very reasonable battle strategy? It "shockingly" doesn't work and the "surprising" arrival of LF saves him. 

Honestly, a well-laid plan working occasionally would be more surprising than whatever contrived BS the show wants to pull. Ramsey Bolton is the text-book definition of a Mary Sue. He has otherworldly archer skills, near omniscience (except the one time it would make sense), zero consequences for ANYTHING he does... He was a terrible character for the show. Honestly, he is my least favorite character for the fact he is  a Mary Sue, not because he's insanely evil (though that gets boring quickly)

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Ramsay also got no repercussions for killing Fat Walda. They could have explained how LF passed the Twins that way by showing how Walder Frey lets them through to crush the Boltons.

Hell, that would have been 'dramatically satisfying' but Ramsay always has to appear as the smarter one even when he's freaking kinslaying!! We had to endure him so many seasons for like 5 seconds of seeing him suffering. I wanted him to fall apart because of his mistakes!

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3 hours ago, joaozinm said:

is anyone bothered by the fact that in the 5 minutes euron was drowning Theon and yara (and 20 goodmen maybe) were able to steal 100 ships?

Yes! I'm also surprised that they had so many followers even though Euron won the kingsmoot plus, you know, he is male. I mean, how many men do you need for one of those ships? Maybe the rowers are slaves, but still...

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On 21 June 2016 at 9:29 AM, rosehustle1 said:

I really don't understand why either of you come into a thread specifically for criticism of the episodes just to judge people for criticizing the episode. Go to the positivity thread.

I'm actually here because I had some criticism of the episode.  What I don't understand is why people who detest the show in its entirety would take the time to watch it and then come here to ridicule those who enjoy the show but want to discuss its imperfections.

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22 hours ago, storm.131 said:

I'm actually here because I had some criticism of the episode.  What I don't understand is why people who detest the show in its entirety would take the time to watch it and then come here to ridicule those who enjoy the show but want to discuss its imperfections.

Well, I guess most of us did not hate the show from the start, most of us actually liked it at the beginning and still try to like it somehow, though it all goes downhill for quite a while now. I still watch it because I like many of the actors and naively believe the storytelling of the show will get better again.

I guess a lot of us either hope for the show to improve (though I admit most people in THIS thread have probably given up that kind of hope) and/or want to know how D&D's extremely book-divergent story will continue/end - therefore we watch GoT as we always did. So I think as (former) fans and still-viewers we are entitled to criticise it as well.

And THIS is pretty much the only place where we can vent our displeasure, everywhere else those who don't accept and swallow everything the show trots out are insulted, scolded and told to fuck off, basically tarred & feathered.

Those who enjoy the show can always use the regular discussion thread or even the positivity thread ....or even visit forums on Reddit, Watchers-on-the-Wall etc.

PS: The topic of the thread is discussing things you disliked about the episode. It is not a place to throw insults at one another or to act as if the normal rules of the forum do not apply.

Discussion of why people disliked something is permitted, but remember the topic at hand: this is not a debate thread, it's a discussion thread specifically about episode details or events that posters disliked.

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11 hours ago, LulaMae Barnes said:

Well, I guess most of us did not hate the show from the start, most of us actually liked it at the beginning and still try to like it somehow, though it all goes downhill for quite a while now. I still watch it because I like many of the actors and naively believe the storytelling of the show will get better again.

I guess a lot of us either hope for the show to improve (though I admit most people in THIS thread have probably given up that kind of hope) and/or want to know how D&D's extremely book-divergent story will continue/end - therefore we watch GoT as we always did. So I think as (former) fans and still-viewers we are entitled to criticise it as well.

And THIS is pretty much the only place where we can vent our displeasure, everywhere else those who don't accept and swallow everything the show trots out are insulted, scolded and told to fuck off, basically tarred & feathered.

Those who enjoy the show can always use the regular discussion thread or even the positivity thread ....or even visit forums on Reddit, Watchers-on-the-Wall etc.

PS: The topic of the thread is discussing things you disliked about the episode. It is not a place to throw insults at one another or to act as if the normal rules of the forum do not apply.

Discussion of why people disliked something is permitted, but remember the topic at hand: this is not a debate thread, it's a discussion thread specifically about episode details or events that posters disliked.

That's fair enough LulaMae, and I apologise if I offended you.  I was honestly questioning why anyone would put themselves through watching a show they hated, not judging or having a go.

To put things into context, I came to this thread to vent about things that frustrated me about the episode.  One person tried to start a debate over what I said and another started mudslinging, part of which was implying I was an idiot because I said I liked the show.

It seems that to some people the "without repercussions" applies to themselves but not to others.

And lets not forget that the definition of criticism is "the analysis and judgement of the merits and faults of a literary or artistic work."  Perhaps the thread should be retitled "tear down without repercussions" if no positive comments are allowed here.

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8 minutes ago, the tower of albion said:

I just had a thought. Why wasn't any of the nobles wearing helmets? Odd that foot soldiers get helmets but the heads of houses - the nobility Nada? WTF.

This seems to be the case in all the battles. Why wasn't  Ned wearing a helmet at the Tower of Joy?

So that we could see him in all his chinless glory? Seriously, that was one of the worse if not the absolute worst casting on GoT. And maybe the actor is good, I've never seen anything else with him, but he's terrible as Ned. 

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Well, to be honest...I did not read through the entire thread. So tell me if I am repetitive.

What really bothers me since season 5 is that the show is gradually less focused on the story and more on the fanservice / "huge" WTF-moments. Nothing really matters anymore. Just one example. Why would you build the Sons of the Harpy up and portrait them as this massive threat to Dany for two entire seasons, just to have them unexplicably dealt with IN FRONT OF THE FREAKING GATES. The only reason why the Sons of the Harpy were so effective in the first place, was because they only engaged in guerilla warfare. Now, of course this doesn´t make any sense at all, but I guess Dario Naharis chopping off some heads and a bunch of Dothraki charging towards the gates looks nice.

The reason why I initially got hooked in season 1 was, because everything was logically explained. The immersive nature of this World really derives from that.

Thus seasons 5 and 6 really killed the show for me. I am not attached to anything really. I´ll keep watching it, just for the visuals. There is no denying that the CGI in ep 9 and 10 was amazing. But the heart of the story, the innovative storytelling with a consequential plot, has been lost... "The TV-Writers send their regards"...

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On 2016年6月30日 at 7:36 PM, the tower of albion said:

I just had a thought. Why wasn't any of the nobles wearing helmets? Odd that foot soldiers get helmets but the heads of houses - the nobility Nada? WTF.

This seems to be the case in all the battles. Why wasn't  Ned wearing a helmet at the Tower of Joy?

Because Northman are poor and dumb hicks /S

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