Littlefinger

[Scorpion92]

9 minutes ago, IrisBest said:

Could be but I don't think spoilers have indicated anything about Sansa leaving WF... but we'll see. I don't think she'd be interested in going anywhere, at least not so soon. She's wanted to be home in WF this whole season and it'd be a bit abrupt for her to take off immediately, even if it's for a mission of some kind.

If it's not a goodbye, the forehead kiss could just be an emotional moment they have after talking things out (I had an idea that this might be a scene after whatever happens in the Godswood with LF, and Jon is reassuring Sansa that he has her back and she's safe after they've perhaps taken care of LF together, which would be a fitting follow up to the scene in 6x09 when she said he couldn't protect her). 

Yeah, I see your point, but honestly there is nothing for Sansa to do in the North storywise.

They have taken back Winterfell and thr North back for House Stark, Jon is new Lord of Winterfell and King in the North, and we know what his priority for next season would be - prepare for White Walker invasion (especially since Bran is travelling back home).

The only significant way she can help her house would be to become Stark diplomat and gain political and military support for the North in soutern Westeros. Iron Throne is an open enemy now since Starks returned their seat, and they need some allies besides Vale. 

There is much more for Sansa to do next season in the south than in Winterfell and the North.

[Attitude]

18 hours ago, Hodor's Aunt said:

after that scene: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-lcx8gAM6wM

Cersai promises LF he'll get a royal decree in the end. So he is Warden of the North now on the condition he takes WF from the Boltons. Since this is done....

I actually forgot that, probably because I didn't buy it.

Actually, I don't even understand why he went down to KL to talk to Cersei, since he would backstab her anyway. Just to check if the has the force to take WF back from him or something?

Anyway, great play from LF. Just arriving in time and taking the North back for Sansa. Vale + North are united once again. 

18 hours ago, Lord Freypie said:

There were two conditions : taking WF, and delivering Sansa's head to Cersei (which I doubt he'll do).

Yeah but the latter wasn't official as far as I see it. Doesn't matter though, he will never do that. 

[Hodor's Aunt]

6 hours ago, Attitude said:

I actually forgot that, probably because I didn't buy it.

Actually, I don't even understand why he went down to KL to talk to Cersei, since he would backstab her anyway. Just to check if the has the force to take WF back from him or something?

Anyway, great play from LF. Just arriving in time and taking the North back for Sansa. Vale + North are united once again. 

To officially become Warden of the North. A title crucial to his plans I guess.

 

Quote

Yeah but the latter wasn't official as far as I see it. Doesn't matter though, he will never do that. 

He might stage it if necessary. Sent some rotting head on a spike to KL. Once it realy turns winter travel might come to an end. So Sansa could rule as Queen of the North or whatever and Cersai and the court in KL wouldn't even now that.

[Bloodaxe]

Hope he gets killed

[TheSpymaster]

If the vale army is loyal to littlefinger, then he is in a pole position. Jon dsnt command a huge army as of now. So just killing off littlefinger isnt practically possible.

[Shane snow]

I don't think they would Jon or Sansa would kill littlefinger right now . The vale army is still around and robin listens to littlefinger. Wouldn't robin he tell the vale to attack winterfell then

[Lord Freypie]

Don't know if they will kill LF but I think it would be a bad choice for the story to kill him now, except if Cersei is to survive to the end (but looks unlikely if she is to kill Tommen burning KL next episode).

Just consider that : Walder is likely pie, Cersei is likely toast, Euron is played by some second rate teddy bear actor ill suited for the job and obviously will never approach the threat level of book Euron, Qyburn hasn't been developped a lot and look likely to stay a support character. Finally the Night King while cool is some boring undead not even speaking. And don't get me started about the Sand Snakes.

Will they make the heroes really spend a season without any subtile human opponent intriguing against them, just hacking slashing and burning white walkers with as only dialogue speeches about unity and Tyrion's dick jokes ?

So I'd say either LF survives and is the main human antagonist next season, either Cersei, but one of the two has to be around and with some power up to second half of last season.

[Rumy Stark]

On 6/20/2016 at 4:46 AM, Hodor's Aunt said:

The opposite is true actually. Queen Regent Cersai herself charged LF with smashing the Boltons as a punishment for marrying Sansa. He fullfilled an order of the crown by taking winterfell!

He only has to stage up Sansa's Head on a spike.

Oh gosh I totally forgot about this! Good catch! 

On 6/20/2016 at 4:58 AM, Scorpion92 said:

Absolutely. We even see Jon saying goodbye to Sansa in preview for final episode.

I don't think so? He kisses her forehead, which looks like reconciliation to me. Sansa has been trying to get home to Winterfell for two seasons (with disastrous results the first time), and now that it's actually hers/Jon's again she isn't going anywhere, at least not permanently. I can see her maybe visiting someone, but certainly not so soon.

23 hours ago, IrisBest said:

There is this but I've heard it's possible Yohn Royce will be around in the finale. The actor said he filmed in July and December, but he's only been in one episode so far. So it's possible he'll pop up seeing as how he's the actual military commander of the Vale. And going off of that, I think there's a chance that scene from earlier in the season where Royce accused LF of betraying Sansa to the Boltons, and then LF lying to him and Robin about it, will be paid off? If Royce asks Sansa about what really happened she could tell the truth and that'll be it for LF. Like no one in the Vale apart from Robyn actually likes him and Royce would jump at the chance to get rid of LF. 

I'm not ready to bet on LF dying yet as I think it's just as likely his fall doesn't come until someone like Sandor exposes what he did to Ned. But the set up is certainly here in season 6 for his fall to happen now, with a joint effort by Sansa, Jon and Royce. 

ROYCE. Oooh, excellent speculation. It's true that LF has no friends in the Vale aside from Sweetrobin, and away from Sweetrobin I'd bet money Royce is going to jump on the opportunity to shatter more of LF's alliances. Man, I just got really excited to see how this all goes down. 

21 hours ago, Scorpion92 said:

He is saying "We have to trust each other. We have so many enemies now" and then we see him kissing her on forehead, as in saying goodbye before one of them leaves.

And since we know Jon is not leaving anywhere, I bet it is Sansa who leaves with Lord Royce and massive Vale army to south. There is nothing else left to do for her in the North, the region and its capital is back in House Stark's hands. But they are on shaky grounds and need allies for the fight against White Walkers.

Sansa will be on diplomatic mission just like Catelyn travelled on diplomatic mission for Robb to Walder Frey and Renly Baratheon.

As I said above, I don't think this is goodbye. It makes 0 sense for Sansa to leave Winterfell after how much time she spent trying to get there and trying to win it back. 

19 hours ago, LastManStanding said:

Laughing at some people thinking Sansa isn't significant enough to off Littlefinger. She is bigger and more significant than him now and if any one character would be responsible for his death, it'd be her. I could see one of a few things happening.

1. She could agree with whatever he wants (probably the North) and then arrange for Jon to be in charge and be like "ohhh noooo, I can't give you anything I promised. Bummer." 

Honestly this is the only satisfying explanation I have for why Sansa never told Jon about The Vale--she wanted to have an out. Jon owes them thanks, sure, but he made no deal and had no idea they'd be there, so if Sansa lets Jon be the official leader of Winterfell LF can't use any deals he made with Sansa to manipulate anything between The North and the Vale. If that's what's going on, it's really brilliant on her part. 

[Tom Kawczynski]

I suppose I differ from others in being a Littlefinger fan, so I'll skip past the many obvious plot holes to make the argument why Sansa should work with Littlefinger.

1) The North's forces have been decimated by the civil war between Bolton and Stark, not to mention Robb's efforts.  The Vale Army is stronger than all remaining forces combined, and though Sansa or Jon might lay claim to Winterfell, their ability to withstand a Lannister/Frey invasion is probably doubtful absent help.

2) Littlefinger is the key conduit to link the Vale to the Starks.  Royce might be sympathetic, but he doesn't rule.  Robin does, and if there is anything we know about the mercurial young lord, it's that he basically only listens to his beloved Uncle Petyr.  If something happens to him, they leave.

3) Sansa is not an innocent.  Her foolishness played as much a role in Ned's death as anyone.  She perjured herself before Lord Royce to save Baelish after Lysa's death.  Lastly, she needs links back into the Seven Kingdoms to establish peace and resume her hold of Winterfell.  Baelish can deliver those.

4) Finally, if there's one thing the Battle of the Bastards revealed, it was the limits of heroism and the importance of better planning.  Sansa is far more like Baelish than Jon at this point, and having learned those lessons in the most intimate way, I suspect she will disappoint all the fanboys who want her to follow Mr. Know Nothing and instead make a smarter play and work something out with Petyr.

Sometimes, people want so badly for there to be good guys where the world doesn't allow choices to be so simple or singular.

[DanïelNorth]

17 minutes ago, Tom Kawczynski said:

1) The North's forces have been decimated by the civil war between Bolton and Stark, not to mention Robb's efforts.  The Vale Army is stronger than all remaining forces combined, and though Sansa or Jon might lay claim to Winterfell, their ability to withstand a Lannister/Frey invasion is probably doubtful absent help.

No.

They still have Moat Cailain. Robb lost this strategical advantage because he had to defend the Riverlands aswell. Any invasion will most likely fail, but it wont happen anyways.

I always thought next season is going to be about team Littlefinger (Stark, Vale) against team Varys (Targaryan, Dorne).

Littlefinger needs a puppet king, and Jon can be easily controlled through Sansa now that she is the only family he got left. He'll make a move for the Riverlands next with the mission of "Uniting the kingdoms against the coming winter" to drag Jon into it. Or he'll be offed and Sansa will use Jon for a revenge plot on the Freys with the same excuse.

[Tom Kawczynski]

14 minutes ago, DanïelNorth said:

No.

They still have Moat Cailain. Robb lost this strategical advantage because he had to defend the Riverlands aswell. Any invasion will most likely fail, but it wont happen anyways.

I always thought next season is going to be about team Littlefinger (Stark, Vale) against team Varys (Targaryan, Dorne).

Littlefinger needs a puppet king, and Jon can be easily controlled through Sansa now that she is the only family he got left. He'll make a move for the Riverlands next with the mission of "Uniting the kingdoms against the coming winter" to drag Jon into it. Or he'll be offed and Sansa will use Jon for a revenge plot on the Freys with the same excuse.

That's reasonable enough.  So do you see next year as an invasion from the north to restore the Tully holdings?  Maybe Edmure can redeem himself?

[Hodor's Aunt]

1 hour ago, DanïelNorth said:

No.

They still have Moat Cailain. Robb lost this strategical advantage because he had to defend the Riverlands aswell. Any invasion will most likely fail, but it wont happen anyways.

If you have the Vale you only need a couple of ships to bypass Moat Cailin. The Ironborn proved that Moat Cailin is hard to controll when attacked from the north. The strategic power of that point is overrated. There is a reason it hasn't been manned for centuries.

[Hodor's Aunt]

1 hour ago, Tom Kawczynski said:

That's reasonable enough.  So do you see next year as an invasion from the north to restore the Tully holdings?  Maybe Edmure can redeem himself?

With what forces? The Boltons had 6000 man, Jon maybe half. If you put everything together what is left plus the Manderlys, Glover and maybe some minor houses you may have 10.000 men. If you completly expose the North that is, which was a huge mistake of Robb (Ironborn invasion) that the Northeners would not allow to be made again. So he effectively has no one to march into war. The Lannisters/Tullys have 100.000 men combined. + Frey +Crownlands and so on. No way there will be an invasion of the south if not the Tullys turn their cloaks - again.

[The Imp slap]

On 20 juin 2016 at 9:32 AM, Scorpion92 said:

Littlefinger will die next episode. Mark my words. Sansa will "reward" him all right - one on one talk with Jon and Ghost.

Hopefully not. He is a fantastic character, one shitty useless death i'd hate. 

[Scorpion92]

12 minutes ago, The Imp slap said:

Hopefully not. He is a fantastic character, one shitty useless death i'd hate. 

Not in the show. Time to wipe that smirk off his face.

[King Louis II (KLII)]

4 hours ago, Hodor's Aunt said:

With what forces? The Boltons had 6000 man, Jon maybe half. If you put everything together what is left plus the Manderlys, Glover and maybe some minor houses you may have 10.000 men. If you completly expose the North that is, which was a huge mistake of Robb (Ironborn invasion) that the Northeners would not allow to be made again. So he effectively has no one to march into war. The Lannisters/Tullys have 100.000 men combined. + Frey +Crownlands and so on. No way there will be an invasion of the south if not the Tullys turn their cloaks - again.

No way Lannisters, Tullys and Freys have 100,000.   I don't think even Lannisters + Tyrrels will be 100,000

[chandl34]

On 6/20/2016 at 9:03 PM, IrisBest said:

Could be but I don't think spoilers have indicated anything about Sansa leaving WF... but we'll see. I don't think she'd be interested in going anywhere, at least not so soon. She's wanted to be home in WF this whole season and it'd be a bit abrupt for her to take off immediately, even if it's for a mission of some kind.

If it's not a goodbye, the forehead kiss could just be an emotional moment they have after talking things out (I had an idea that this might be a scene after whatever happens in the Godswood with LF, and Jon is reassuring Sansa that he has her back and she's safe after they've perhaps taken care of LF together, which would be a fitting follow up to the scene in 6x09 when she said he couldn't protect her). 

I think most of Jon's story this season is Stannis's story, so Jon may be leaving to do whatever he's supposed to do in the next book.

[tinka10]

On 20/06/2016 at 6:46 PM, Hodor's Aunt said:

The opposite is true actually. Queen Regent Cersai herself charged LF with smashing the Boltons as a punishment for marrying Sansa. He fullfilled an order of the crown by taking winterfell!

He only has to stage up Sansa's Head on a spike.

True! I don't think he'll kill Sansa though. He has affection for her, and he must know how little power the Lannister's and Cercei have now. So why kill her when he could use her to climb the ladder further?

[tinka10]

On 20/06/2016 at 8:42 PM, Hodor's Aunt said:

after that scene: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-lcx8gAM6wM

Cersai promises LF he'll get a royal decree in the end. So he is Warden of the North now on the condition he takes WF from the Boltons. Since this is done....

Oh man, I forgot about the royal decree. If things don't go the way LF wants in the North next episode, he could use this to depose Jon as warden/king in the north. And since Jon has no army now... (thanks, Sansa).

[Hodor's Aunt]

4 hours ago, King Louis II (KLII) said:

No way Lannisters, Tullys and Freys have 100,000.   I don't think even Lannisters + Tyrrels will be 100,000

not each. joined.