MikeMartell

Sansa's displeasure [POSSIBLE SPOILERS]

93 posts in this topic

1 hour ago, bb1180 said:

That's the thing,  though. Sansa's actions are not motivated by a desire for power over Jon.  She has the Stark name and the better claim.  They've never argued over who will rule Winterfell after the battle. It may happen,  but it hasn't yet and it would seem out of character for Jon to do so.  Instead,  Sansa's issue is that she doesn't fully trust Jon's judgement or that he necessarily has her best interests in mind,  and that's all based on manipulation by LF.  It looks like that may get sorted soon enough.

Personally,  I think Jon and Sansa actually very much want what's best for the other,  but they're having trouble getting past their post-Winterfell experiences and the resulting trust issues they each have,  Sansa in particular.  Now that Ramsay is out of the way and LF likely will be soon enough,  I think that's going to start to resolve itself. 

It is not desire to rule over Jon, it is desire to rule over winterfell, it is desire to have power for herself, it is desire to rule and not to be ruled. We saw this discontent she's been having ever since she and Jon reunited. From the get go she wanted to take back winterfell but not only that, she wanted her to be the main reason why Winterfell was taken  back. She was overruling Davos when he was mentioning how bleak their chances were, she was the one taking command, saying how Davos doesnt know the north. How the northmen were loyal, how they will rally to their cause, and how it didn't matter that Jon was a BASTARD, she was a true STARK and the northmen would listen to her. They went with her plans and still she was not happy, still she was complaining to Jon in a sarcastic way about Davos being his most trusted advisor because he secured 62 men from a child, still she felt left out, still she felt that her advice should overrule others. And what happens when she's asked on what they should do since she knows better, she says she doesn't know while having a vale army under her sleeves and not telling Jon. Well jon went into battle without waiting for any other army to rescue him. Jon was losing the battle, and here comes the savior with her vale army and with the most satisfying smug face you've ever seen. She saved the day, she's the reason they won, she's taking back winterfell.......oh wait wait wait, she sees jon running after ramsey, she sees Jon taking part on the victory, she sees Jon finishing up the battle, and her smug face becomes a disappointed face. Look we don't know what's gonna happen, but that she wanted winterfell, that she wanted to be the leader of the taking of winterfell and that she wants to have power and be listen to, That is beyond contestation. My guess is that she and jon might butt heads in the leadership of winterfell and that littlefinger will try move her against jon.

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2 hours ago, Ingelheim said:

Buy what you want. I just can't see how anyone would think Sansa is simply using Jon and doesn't give a fuck about him. That's not true. That's not what GOT has shown us.

I'm pretty sure the finale will put an end to these thoughts. I'm sure LF will die by her doing.

Also, I have no problem with her smiling at Ramsay's death. That's the man who raped and tortured her for weeks. That's the man who just killed her little brother. She should have been laughing at him.

The bolded, yep. But even then there'll be people whining about her, I'm sure lol.

I'm not convinced LF will die yet (but I hope he will be). It's actually encouraging to see that he's making such a bold advance to Sansa in the promo, intruding on her when she seems to be having a moment to herself in the Godswood, and she looks wary and upset. He's pushing it, basically, and I think it's going to cost him. I think Jon is going to show up to interrupt whatever LF is trying to pull there (based on those shots from the trailer where someone approaches LF in the Godswood and LF looks nervous). If we're lucky LF dies right then and there. But it's possible he just gets sent packing back to the Vale or something, empty-handed.  

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24 minutes ago, tormond said:

It is not desire to rule over Jon, it is desire to rule over winterfell, it is desire to have power for herself, it is desire to rule and not to be ruled. We saw this discontent she's been having ever since she and Jon reunited. From the get go she wanted to take back winterfell but not only that, she wanted her to be the main reason why Winterfell was taken  back. She was overruling Davos when he was mentioning how bleak their chances were, she was the one taking command, saying how Davos doesnt know the north. How the northmen were loyal, how they will rally to their cause, and how it didn't matter that Jon was a BASTARD, she was a true STARK and the northmen would listen to her. They went with her plans and still she was not happy, still she was complaining to Jon in a sarcastic way about Davos being his most trusted advisor because he secured 62 men from a child, still she felt left out, still she felt that her advice should overrule others. And what happens when she's asked on what they should do since she knows better, she says she doesn't know while having a vale army under her sleeves and not telling Jon. Well jon went into battle without waiting for any other army to rescue him. Jon was losing the battle, and here comes the savior with her vale army and with the most satisfying smug face you've ever seen. She saved the day, she's the reason they won, she's taking back winterfell.......oh wait wait wait, she sees jon running after ramsey, she sees Jon taking part on the victory, she sees Jon finishing up the battle, and her smug face becomes a disappointed face. Look we don't know what's gonna happen, but that she wanted winterfell, that she wanted to be the leader of the taking of winterfell and that she wants to have power and be listen to, That is beyond contestation. My guess is that she and jon might butt heads in the leadership of winterfell and that littlefinger will try move her against jon.

Spot on, except the fact that she can't fight in the battle on her own, no army will follow a girl who doesn't know how to fight into battle. An army needs a leader, heck even Dany can ride her dragons, Yara sure can fight. What can Sansa do in battle except watching from the outside? She needs a general to control the army if she had any loyal army to her. Like Jamie and the Mountain to Cersei, they fight for her and follow her words. 

 The closest loyal figure Sansa can get is Jon and his supporters but she doesn't trust them. She wants power for herself. That's the issue. She can't have power for herself without any commander with an army beside her and she must trust that person (and that person must trust her). She is doing no good for herself. She must have known that LF isn't someone like that. 

Edited by Quyen Thuy Tran

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25 minutes ago, tormond said:

My guess is that she and jon might butt heads in the leadership of winterfell and that littlefinger will try move her against jon.

Don't you worry, next episode the true Lord of Winterfell might be just coming towards the Wall.

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5 minutes ago, adamr said:

Don't you worry, next episode the true Lord of Winterfell might be just coming towards the Wall.

let us hope. Unfortunately Edd will provably die, I hope not cause he's one of the best characters. But it is time for the walkers to make their presence felt

Edited by tormond

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1 minute ago, tormond said:

let us hope. Unfortunately Edd will provably die, I hope not cause he's one of the best characters. But it is time for the walkers to make their presence felt

Yeah, I think they're waiting with Bran for Episode 10 because he'll actually let the WW past the wall because of his mark. Thus the Wall will fall.

Edited by adamr

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If what Sansa did to Ramsay was not a deed worthy of a Stark, then Arya  did lots more. Why is it that everyone cheers when Arya kills, but when Sansa does the same it becomes horrible. Both kill out of revenge. Arya killed people who had a hand in her family's demise, some of them didn't even harm her directly. Sansa killed a man who did both: harmed her and killed her brother.

I did not like Sansa keeping the Vale army a secret from Jon. This move seemed to make Jon and his men look like cannon fodder (I hope it's the right expression, though of course no cannons were involved). I hope we get a serious explanation from her own mouth for hiding 10000 men from Jon. My first thought is that maybe she wasn't sure they would arrive in time or at all.

That look on Sansa's face when Jon ran after Ramsay was both annoyance and worry to me. Annoyance that Ramsay had escaped, worry that Jon could could die (Jon already fought in the battle, while Ramsay only watched and was rested). She rode pretty past after Jon, if she really wanted him dead she wouldn't have. At least these are my thoughts.

 

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5 hours ago, SeventhReign said:

 

Nah, Ramsay deserved it. Most people don't deserve to die like that, but he does. Remember he killed his little brother and mother in law in the exact same way. It was karma.

And I think it's pretty gross that some of you guys are trying to dictate how a rape victim should feel when confronting their rapist. You're not the first person that didn't like the smile. Ramsay abused her, raped her in her own home, killed her brother, stole her home from her ... she has earned the right to smile at the fact that he won't be hurting her or her family ever again. She earned the right to even get a little pleasure from his pain. That's why she smirked. He no longer has power over her, and that smirk showed it.

And Starks need to get a little darker to survive. Being good and honorable has done nothing but get them killed. We see where that got Ned and Robb. They can still be good people, but when it comes to their enemies they need to be tough.

totally agree!! I honestly liked the scene. for me it worked on a couple different levels. 1 ramsay was really undone by his own cruelty. he starved those that were most loyal to him, and THATS why they ate him. call it poetic justice, call it a parallel for the wrongs he had done, but the statement I think that the writers were trying to make is that too noble = ned, too dark = ramsay. both too light or too dark = dead.

5 hours ago, SeventhReign said:

 

Like a simple beheading? I don't know. That's too quick for someone like Ramsay.

I just think it's poetic justice. He fed so many people to those dogs ... including his brother. So I thought it was a fitting end, from a writing standpoint at least. It was a good symbolization, showing that he had well and truly lost, if even his dogs have turned on him. I guess I see where you're coming from though.

i also think that this scene had an interesting parallel to the scene with the hound last episode. thoros tells him dead is dead, when he complains about not being able to punish them by making them suffer, the hounds response "we all die" meaning a quick death is no punishment because everyone dies in the end, but he does end up allowing them to have the "honorable" death sentence. Meanwhile Sansa passses judgement on Ramsay and leaves him to his punishment death. there's an interesting dynamic between these two characters. I think the writers were deliberately doing this to highlight how much lighter the hound has become vs how much darker Sansa has become. I also really like the darker sansa. 

5 hours ago, caravaggio said:

And what was up with the dogs anyway? I thought they were just normal dogs in both the books and the show, but then they are super huge?

those were cain courso's (probably spelled that wrong) and their heads are GI freaking Normous. they did do some CGI work, but it may not have been the size. because their heads are easily the same size as a large mans if not even bigger.

4 hours ago, Jan Michael Mil said:

The theme of Jon and Sansa is obviously that they don't trust each other completely (which will prolly be resolved next episode). Not just Sansa.

You people speak as if Sansa is the only one who doesn't trust Jon. Jon doesn't trust Sansa to do anything because she's a girl (as evidenced when Sansa keeps on butting in with Jon/Davos cause she wants to advice Jon as well but he ignores her and treats her like a little girl who needs protecting.) while Sansa doesn't trust Jon as a player (as evidenced by her lying and not telling the truth).

They both need to get their shit together and start trusting one another like Margaery and Olenna. It's just another soap drama that GoT has installed cause otherwise, the Jon/Sansa tandem would be boring had they have been on the same page since day 1.

 

i totally agree, this is tension creating writing. they havent seen each other for years, they've both experienced betrayals of the highest order, they arent used to working together as a family. do i agree that sansa not telling jon about the vale was dumb...yes, do i understand it? also yes. they werent very close prior to the split, not to mention the fact that

Spoiler

Sansa promised peter a reward in her letter if you believe the images that people enhanced of the letter she wrote. who knows, she might have been keeping it secret out of fear that not only would they not show, but that her noble brother wouldnt like her offering an open ended reward to LF. and based on the previews "you know what I want" or whatever that LF says to her, im betting this is a big reason she didnt enlighten Jon right away. she didnt want him to be involved in the reward negotiations. just my crack pot idea

 

3 hours ago, adiman83 said:

I get the poetic justice thing. And Ramsay got a taste of his own medicine, I agree with that as well. I just feel it kind of goes against the way Ned raised his children. Sansa basically wiped her feet with everything her father taught them. 

What I'm saying is if Jon would've been the one to get rid of Ramsay, not Sansa, he probably would've condemned him to death officially and behead him. The way he did with Janos Slynt and the way Robb did with Rickard Karstark. In other words, Jon is Ned's child more than Sansa is right now.  

Sansa was just being her mom. there have been numerous references to her being just like cat. coincidence? i think not. if Jon can be said to be Neds son in terms of how he acts, Id say its pretty obvious that Sansa gets her revenge streak from dear old mom. especially cat in the books:

Spoiler

Lady Stoneheart anyone???

 

58 minutes ago, IrisBest said:

The bolded, yep. But even then there'll be people whining about her, I'm sure lol.

I'm not convinced LF will die yet (but I hope he will be). It's actually encouraging to see that he's making such a bold advance to Sansa in the promo, intruding on her when she seems to be having a moment to herself in the Godswood, and she looks wary and upset. He's pushing it, basically, and I think it's going to cost him. I think Jon is going to show up to interrupt whatever LF is trying to pull there (based on those shots from the trailer where someone approaches LF in the Godswood and LF looks nervous). If we're lucky LF dies right then and there. But it's possible he just gets sent packing back to the Vale or something, empty-handed.  

I dont know how easy it will be to send him packing. he has 10000 vale knights at his back, jon has a decimated army...

crack pot time: i think it'll be tricky to just bounce him to the vale, and the only way they can get rid of LF is for the north to rally post battle. which if casting rumors were true, might actually be the case

Spoiler

they apparently had a casting call for someone who sounded a LOT like manderly, but we havent seen him this season...mayvbe episode 10?

 

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11 minutes ago, Neffaria said:

I dont know how easy it will be to send him packing. he has 10000 vale knights at his back, jon has a decimated army...

crack pot time: i think it'll be tricky to just bounce him to the vale, and the only way they can get rid of LF is for the north to rally post battle. which if casting rumors were true, might actually be the case

It all depends on if the show actually intends to pay off that scene earlier when Royce accused LF of betraying Sansa, and LF threatened Royce and also lied to Robin's face about it. I don't know if Royce traveled with the army north or not as the commander - he should've been, doesn't make much sense if he didn't. And I heard Royce's actor apparently said he filmed in July and December, which probably means more than just one episode? So anyway if he's in episode 10 it could be he's there to pull the rug out from under LF. He can ask Sansa what really happened with LF and the Boltons and if Sansa tells him, then that puts LF in a very precarious position with the Vale Knights. 

That said with the way the writings been going lately I'm not confident the show actually plans to pay off anything lol. 

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1 minute ago, IrisBest said:

It all depends on if the show actually intends to pay off that scene earlier when Royce accused LF of betraying Sansa, and LF threatened Royce and also lied to Robin's face about it. I don't know if Royce traveled with the army north or not as the commander - he should've been, doesn't make much sense if he didn't. And I heard Royce's actor apparently said he filmed in July and December, which probably means more than just one episode? So anyway if he's in episode 10 it could be he's there to pull the rug out from under LF. He can ask Sansa what really happened with LF and the Boltons and if Sansa tells him, then that puts LF in a very precarious position with the Vale Knights. 

That said with the way the writings been going lately I'm not confident the show actually plans to pay off anything lol. 

ohhhhhhh!!!! totally forgot about that piece of the pie..now I'm more excited for ep 10. which means I'll likely be disappoint...i was pretty hype for "no one" too...but now that I remember the scene, I think you're right...it'll pay out somehow.

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11 hours ago, adiman83 said:

Am I the only one that was a bit freaked out by Sansa this episode? She fed Ramsay to the dogs and stood there and watched him getting ripped to shreds by his hounds and when she left, she smiled. 

I didn't like Ramsay, never did, but nobody deserves to die like that. Not even Ramsay. And that's not a behaviour worthy of a Stark.  

 

I think a major reason that Sansa fed Ramsay to his own dogs was that the writers wanted the dark justice of having Ramsay suffer the same horrible fate that he had given Walda and her innocent baby.  A further irony is that Ramsay had starved the dogs for a week in preparation for unleashing them to maul/eat prisoners; and Wow, they eat him instead.

Moral:  Don't abuse your dogs or your wife, or train your dogs to kill women & babies, or you'll end up as Bolton Dog Chow yourself.

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Ramsay got just what he deserved. Even though she rode away before he talked about starving his dogs but whatever. Stuff like her mad at Jon for attacking with the force he has and not asking her council. The whole time not saying one word about a fresh army of heavy calvary on the way. I'm going to chalk it up to bad writing. After last week it's apparent some things will never make sense.

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On 6/21/2016 at 1:33 AM, Red Tiger said:

Im thinking he'll do this to Harald Karstark, mirroring what Robb did to Rickard.

She will also still lie to Robb(assuming this is current Sansa we're talking about).

D&D have said it themselves in one of their "inside this episode" youtube videos that she's in it for the long run. How the hell is she in it for the "long run" by lying to Jon without any backup plan whatsoever? I'm pretty sure that "long run" is her planning to kill LF. Had she told Jon about LF, Jon would've banned her from further seeing him because of how dangerous he is. Sansa is the only one that can beat LF and she's only been made sure of that 100% after S6x09 when she tried to help Jon with Ramsay but realizes he's not going to budge and will still fall under Ramsay's psychological manipulations.

 

Littlefinger is better than Ramsay, therefore Jon vs LF would result in them losing. Lying to Jon would mean she can still marry, or at the very least, still talk to LF because Jon still doesn't know how dangerous he is.

 

Think about it, how can Sansa beat LF if she's barred from ever seeing him? We know that's gonna happen if she told Jon the truth because he said it himself "Father's ghost will haunt me if I didn't look after you."

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