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Will the tombs reveal Jons parentage? [Spoilers]

218 posts in this topic

10 minutes ago, tugela said:

Why would he need to lose Ghost just because his sperm donor was Rhaegar? He is still a Stark.

haha! just a thought... 

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26 minutes ago, tugela said:

He doesn't know anything, he just doesn't believe the story that Rhaegar kidnapped and raped Lyanna, because that is not the story that almost everyone in the kingdom believes. The "kidnapped and raped" was pretty much Robert's version, but no one else (except Sansa, apparently) thinks that is what happened. They all know she ran off with Rhaegar willingly. It is not clear why Sansa would even think that because Ned himself apparently doesn't.

The look he gave her was one of "you are so naïve and gullible it boggles the mind!".

Yeah you're right... It was my first time to hear that version by the way...

Even little Brandon said to O'sha "That's my aunte Lyanna. She was promised to King Robert but Rhaegar Targaryen kidnapped her. And Robert started a war to take her back... But she died anyway..."

He didn't mention the 'raping' part... So I know that I was surprised when I heard the story from Sansa especially because when Ser Barristan Selmy talked about him with Daenerys, it was another person... "He would spend his days, singing ..."

BUT! That look from Petyr Baelish can be more than just "Don't tell me you believe that story, stupid lady?!"... Yeah you're right! ooh I don't KNow!!

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6 hours ago, tugela said:

The scene shows Leaf inserting obsidian into a man, whose eyes turn blue. It doesn't say when it happened. Since Leaf isn't 8 thousand years old it obviously was a recent event. There is nothing to say that the current white walkers are the original white walkers. If the children made them thousands of years ago, then they disappeared until now, it stands to reason that they have not been around all that time, and that Leaf made a second crop in the last 20 years or so. That would be the reasonable conclusion.

It wouldn't be a reasonable conclusion, if:

  • The location where the man was turned was in the far north, as indicated in Bran's dream
  • The man is not identified as a Stark, though you seem to think that he is
  • The Children live for a long time, eight thousand years is not impossible to be a "long time"
  • The Wall was built to keep the Others out of the lands of men
  • Bran notes that the Children created the others as the first time appearance
  • Bran asks why the Children created the Others

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8 hours ago, tugela said:

That is not claimed in the show at all. The scene shows Leaf inserting obsidian into a man, whose eyes turn blue. It doesn't say when it happened. Since Leaf isn't 8 thousand years old it obviously was a recent event. There is nothing to say that the current white walkers are the original white walkers. If the children made them thousands of years ago, then they disappeared until now, it stands to reason that they have not been around all that time, and that Leaf made a second crop in the last 20 years or so. That would be the reasonable conclusion.

The book refers to a character called the "Night's King" who lived thousands of years ago. The current character is called the "Night King", who is completely different. Don't conflate the two.

Remember, there were half a dozen kings beyond the wall, and they were not all Mance Rayder.

 

How do you know that Leaf isn't 8k years old? The show doesn't say she's not. The show leads us to believe she existed long before the First Men came to Westeros. Leaf tells the story first hand, as though she was there, and there's no reason to believe otherwise - Bran sees her in his vision.

The show also doesn't say anything about a "second crop" of WW, you're just filling in details that don't exist.

While ASOIAF and the show are both written and presented largely as a mystery, people are going out of their way at this point to twist the plot into an ÜberMereenese Knot and make it more complicated than it already is for no reason.

The Show has always been pretty straight forward as far as their plot lines. Not a lot of misdirection when you come right down to it, mostly likely because there just isn't time.

Going by what the show itself has shown us - There's no reason whatsoever to believe Bran's vision of The Children making the WW wasn't their original creation, and the first WW. Even in the IMDB credits he's "The Night King." 

Just because one is called "Night's" King in the book, and the in the show it's "Night" King, you say they're completely different characters - yet there's absolutely zero evidence of that anywhere in either show or book. No where on the show does it stipulate he's not the original WW like Leaf explains, and the show leads us to believe. In fact, the show does just the opposite of what you're claiming. 

I don't get why you're trying to change it so much and make it more convoluted than it needs to be.

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9 hours ago, tugela said:

That is not claimed in the show at all. The scene shows Leaf inserting obsidian into a man, whose eyes turn blue. It doesn't say when it happened. Since Leaf isn't 8 thousand years old it obviously was a recent event. There is nothing to say that the current white walkers are the original white walkers. If the children made them thousands of years ago, then they disappeared until now, it stands to reason that they have not been around all that time, and that Leaf made a second crop in the last 20 years or so. That would be the reasonable conclusion.

The book refers to a character called the "Night's King" who lived thousands of years ago. The current character is called the "Night King", who is completely different. Don't conflate the two.

Remember, there were half a dozen kings beyond the wall, and they were not all Mance Rayder.

 

There was an actual meaningful treason behind Leaf creating them 8k years ago because that's when the men were slaughtering the CotF. Why the hell would they remake them in the last 20 years? For one knowing how the WW got out of hand the first time and that the humans have basically forgotten about her race and are being left to live in peace. Plus the North in the vision was very summer like indicating it's not recent at all but perhaps some remnant of how Westoros was under CotF rule while the men were still conquering it.

Edited by Asvpxkvng

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3 hours ago, MtnLion said:

It wouldn't be a reasonable conclusion, if:

  • The location where the man was turned was in the far north, as indicated in Bran's dream
  • The man is not identified as a Stark, though you seem to think that he is
  • The Children live for a long time, eight thousand years is not impossible to be a "long time"
  • The Wall was built to keep the Others out of the lands of men
  • Bran notes that the Children created the others as the first time appearance
  • Bran asks why the Children created the Others

The man in question would have be turned about 15 years prior. At that time it was in the middle of their "long summer", so being green up north is not unreasonable.

I never said he was a Stark. In fact, I think he is a Targaryen. Other people have claimed that he is a Stark, based on what some characters speculated about the original Night's King (who was not the first other incidentally .... he was a commander of the Nights Watch who married a female other.....which means that they already existed BEFORE he assumed the title)

The book describes the children as being long in years but few in number. 8 thousand years is a VERY long time however, and there is nothing to suggest that the children live that long, either in the show or the book. People assume that she must be really old because they have this preconceived idea that the current Night King has to be the original Night's King even though there are no reasons to think so. Just from a purely demographic point of view, even just doubling of reproductive lifetimes would have a BIG impact on population numbers, which means that Leaf might live longer than men, but not a whole lot longer. Otherwise Westeros would be overflowing with CotF. That means that fact that SHE turned the guy in the scene means it happened relatively recently.

The others were created by the children as weapons (supposedly), even though the children and men were at peace when this first happened. Which does not make a whole lot of sense, unless there were some children who did this as terrorists in rebellion of the peace their elders made. Ignoring the logical contradiction in all of that, and assuming the children did make others 8 thousand years ago, they could presumably do the same again today. Making others is not a once of deal, if they did it once, they could do it again. And presumably they could do it for the same reasons. Given that, what Leaf said would be as valid today as it would have been 8 thousand years ago.

It is pretty clear that the white walkers in the show are VERY different from those in the book, particularly with regard to their origin story. Using the book as source material to make conclusions about the show with respect to the white walkers is therefore misguided.

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53 minutes ago, Asvpxkvng said:

There was an actual meaningful treason behind Leaf creating them 8k years ago because that's when the men were slaughtering the CotF. Why the hell would they remake them in the last 20 years? For one knowing how the WW got out of hand the first time and that the humans have basically forgotten about her race and are being left to live in peace. Plus the North in the vision was very summer like indicating it's not recent at all but perhaps some remnant of how Westoros was under CotF rule while the men were still conquering it.

Um....no.....they weren't. The white walkers appeared after the children had made peace with men.

The show white walkers would have been made in response to what the wildlings were doing beyond the wall. It is somewhat different from the books, where I think they have always been around and became activated by Mance Rayders activities.

I think Rhaegar is the protagonist beyond the wall who triggers the white walkers in both case. IMO in the books Mance Rayder is Rhaegar, and in the show the Night King (who is not present in the books) is Rhaegar. The show protagonist would have been made as a warrior king to fight for the children against the wildlings, but because he is still Rhaegar, he wants Westeros as well, essentially going rogue on the children.

Turning Rhaegar would have happened shortly after Robert's rebellion, so it would have happened during the long summer, when the north would have been warmer (hence greener).

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The show is nothing if not superficial.  The show brings up the crypt, most recently with Rickon's death, when Jon says that Rickon will be buried in the crypts, with father.  Then we had the conversation with Sansa and LF in the crypts, and the actual conversation was about Jon's mother.  I think the show has the crypts in mind for some reason so it cannot be ruled out as a medium of communication regarding Jon's birth parents. Personally, I would like Jon to find out for himself alone, or at least with family.  I do not want someone like LF to tell him.

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1 hour ago, tugela said:

Um....no.....they weren't. The white walkers appeared after the children had made peace with men.

The show white walkers would have been made in response to what the wildlings were doing beyond the wall. It is somewhat different from the books, where I think they have always been around and became activated by Mance Rayders activities.

I think Rhaegar is the protagonist beyond the wall who triggers the white walkers in both case. IMO in the books Mance Rayder is Rhaegar, and in the show the Night King (who is not present in the books) is Rhaegar. The show protagonist would have been made as a warrior king to fight for the children against the wildlings, but because he is still Rhaegar, he wants Westeros as well, essentially going rogue on the children.

Turning Rhaegar would have happened shortly after Robert's rebellion, so it would have happened during the long summer, when the north would have been warmer (hence greener).

You need to rewatch that episode. Leaf is the one who creates the first WW. She explains they were being slaughtered and their sacred trees being cut down "by men." They needed protection, "from you." 

Where did you get that the WW appeared "after the Children made peace with men"? 

Mance Rayder is Rhaegar? What? 

And like 

What books did you read, and what show are you watching to get anything you're proposing? I honestly don't understand.

Can you please point to a scene in the show or a passage in the books where any of this is based?

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4 hours ago, tugela said:

Um....no.....they weren't. The white walkers appeared after the children had made peace with men.

The show white walkers would have been made in response to what the wildlings were doing beyond the wall. It is somewhat different from the books, where I think they have always been around and became activated by Mance Rayders activities.

I think Rhaegar is the protagonist beyond the wall who triggers the white walkers in both case. IMO in the books Mance Rayder is Rhaegar, and in the show the Night King (who is not present in the books) is Rhaegar. The show protagonist would have been made as a warrior king to fight for the children against the wildlings, but because he is still Rhaegar, he wants Westeros as well, essentially going rogue on the children.

Turning Rhaegar would have happened shortly after Robert's rebellion, so it would have happened during the long summer, when the north would have been warmer (hence greener).

 

2 hours ago, ShadowKitteh said:

You need to rewatch that episode. Leaf is the one who creates the first WW. She explains they were being slaughtered and their sacred trees being cut down "by men." They needed protection, "from you." 

Where did you get that the WW appeared "after the Children made peace with men"? 

Mance Rayder is Rhaegar? What? 

And like 

What books did you read, and what show are you watching to get anything you're proposing? I honestly don't understand.

Can you please point to a scene in the show or a passage in the books where any of this is based?

I have no idea where he got the idea WW appeared after peace was made. Tugela is arguing he think Leaf was talking about wildlings cutting down the sacred trees and killing them which there is no proof of. It's far more likely that the more obvious explanation is correct, that this was a flashback to the war between the CotF and all men thousands of years ago. To your point about the greener north that makes no sense. You argue that the area is green because it's during the time of Roberts rebellion during the long summer....the entire show up till now is also in the long summer! How come that same area is cold now? Also you didn't answer my point of why the CotF would create this second crop knowing how out of hand they got last time causing the long night and turning their natural green environment into a frozen wasteland? It makes no logical sense. 

As to your Rhaegar Mance Rayder theory it sounds like a cool twist but a claim like that requires actual proof to prove viability. Do you have anything like ShadowKitteh said to back these claims as far as scenes or book passages? Also I'm pretty sure Rhaegar died at the Ruby Ford in the Riverlands (I read it in the wiki. I don't read the books so I can't say I've heard it in there) far from the Land of Always Winter well they must have dwelled at that point(Not to mention the gigantic wall in the way). In the show it doesn't exactly look like the guy was willing so as far as the CotF supposedly getting a warrior king to fight for them and then going rogue, they'd be absolute idiots to not expect their WW creation to not go rogue as they've already had in the past according to your theory. As cool as it would be to have the Night King be Ehaegar it just doesn't work.

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5 hours ago, Asvpxkvng said:

 

I have no idea where he got the idea WW appeared after peace was made. Tugela is arguing he think Leaf was talking about wildlings cutting down the sacred trees and killing them which there is no proof of. It's far more likely that the more obvious explanation is correct, that this was a flashback to the war between the CotF and all men thousands of years ago. To your point about the greener north that makes no sense. You argue that the area is green because it's during the time of Roberts rebellion during the long summer....the entire show up till now is also in the long summer! How come that same area is cold now? Also you didn't answer my point of why the CotF would create this second crop knowing how out of hand they got last time causing the long night and turning their natural green environment into a frozen wasteland? It makes no logical sense. 

As to your Rhaegar Mance Rayder theory it sounds like a cool twist but a claim like that requires actual proof to prove viability. Do you have anything like ShadowKitteh said to back these claims as far as scenes or book passages? Also I'm pretty sure Rhaegar died at the Ruby Ford in the Riverlands (I read it in the wiki. I don't read the books so I can't say I've heard it in there) far from the Land of Always Winter well they must have dwelled at that point(Not to mention the gigantic wall in the way). In the show it doesn't exactly look like the guy was willing so as far as the CotF supposedly getting a warrior king to fight for them and then going rogue, they'd be absolute idiots to not expect their WW creation to not go rogue as they've already had in the past according to your theory. As cool as it would be to have the Night King be Ehaegar it just doesn't work.

:agree:

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6 hours ago, Asvpxkvng said:

 

I have no idea where he got the idea WW appeared after peace was made. Tugela is arguing he think Leaf was talking about wildlings cutting down the sacred trees and killing them which there is no proof of. It's far more likely that the more obvious explanation is correct, that this was a flashback to the war between the CotF and all men thousands of years ago. To your point about the greener north that makes no sense. You argue that the area is green because it's during the time of Roberts rebellion during the long summer....the entire show up till now is also in the long summer! How come that same area is cold now? Also you didn't answer my point of why the CotF would create this second crop knowing how out of hand they got last time causing the long night and turning their natural green environment into a frozen wasteland? It makes no logical sense. 

As to your Rhaegar Mance Rayder theory it sounds like a cool twist but a claim like that requires actual proof to prove viability. Do you have anything like ShadowKitteh said to back these claims as far as scenes or book passages? Also I'm pretty sure Rhaegar died at the Ruby Ford in the Riverlands (I read it in the wiki. I don't read the books so I can't say I've heard it in there) far from the Land of Always Winter well they must have dwelled at that point(Not to mention the gigantic wall in the way). In the show it doesn't exactly look like the guy was willing so as far as the CotF supposedly getting a warrior king to fight for them and then going rogue, they'd be absolute idiots to not expect their WW creation to not go rogue as they've already had in the past according to your theory. As cool as it would be to have the Night King be Ehaegar it just doesn't work.

Well, because winter is coming, and it comes to the north first. For example, it is snowing in Winterfell at the moment, but down south it is not. Not yet. The first snows would have fallen north of the wall, then the snow line would creep south over time. That is how it works in the real world and it is how it would work in Westeros.

Regarding proof about Rhaegar dieing at Ruby forge, well, let me throw that right back at you....what proof is there that it was actually him? Some guy in his armor was killed, but the book says nothing more about it. What exactly happened to the body? No one says anything about it, other than the guy in the armor was killed and men from both armies busied themselves looking for rubies. We know that rubies are used to glamor people, there are prominent and different examples in both the book and the show. Obviously it is something significant, so much so that we needed to be reminded of it in both media. The only other place rubies are mentioned are in connection with Rhaegar and the Trident.

Think about the battle of the Blackwater. Renly led his armies to victory, but Renly was dead...it was actually Ser Garlan Tyrell in the armor, but Renly's men thought it was him come back as a ghost. So there is precedent for someone to be wearing a prominent persons armor in order to fool observers.

There are lots of secrets in the story. Part of what this forum is about is to talk about those not revealed, what they are, what they mean. There is more to the story than a bunch of random events, there is an underlying theme and a conclusion that is being worked towards, where all of the seemingly unrelated events will climax at. There are plots that the writers have not made known yet, but are subtly hinted at in the preceding content.

Why would the children create this second crop of white walkers if the first crop got out of hand? What makes you think the first crop got out of hand? They were never actually defeated, they were just on the other side of the wall. That was probably the intent of the children in the first place. Create this mysterious unstoppable force to put the fear of god into man, then offer to "solve" the problem for them by helping to build the wall. Only the wall was not meant to keep the white walkers out, it was meant to keep man in. Then move forward 8 thousand years, say 400 generations of children later. Man is getting out of hand north of the wall again, so what to do about it? Leaf remembers the oral history of her people about how they fooled man into fencing himself in by playing on his fears. So she gets the bright idea, lets do it again. Except that some details were lost over time about the implications of doing this, and she turned the wrong guy. So now she has created Frankenstein, and he is going to destroy her people as well as man.

That is how I see it. You talk about proof, but what proof do you have that the white walkers are actually 8000 years old and not just20? You just make that assumption. Fair enough, you are entitled to your theory as well, but if you are critical about other theories, you need to be held to the same standard you are using for others. :) 

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10 hours ago, ShadowKitteh said:

You need to rewatch that episode. Leaf is the one who creates the first WW. She explains they were being slaughtered and their sacred trees being cut down "by men." They needed protection, "from you." 

Where did you get that the WW appeared "after the Children made peace with men"? 

Mance Rayder is Rhaegar? What? 

And like 

What books did you read, and what show are you watching to get anything you're proposing? I honestly don't understand.

Can you please point to a scene in the show or a passage in the books where any of this is based?

The children made peace in a pact with the first men that lasted 4 thousand years. This peace started a period known as the age of heroes. http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Age_of_Heroes

The others showed up in the middle of this peace in an episode known as the long night. This was 8000 years before the conquest. http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Age_of_Heroes

Their "defeat" let to the construction of the wall by the Nights Watch and allied forces. The 13th lord commander of the Nights Watch fell in love with an other, and became the Night's King. http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Night's_King

So, the scene showing Leaf could NOT have been about the creation of the original others, since the war with the first men had been over for 2000 years already when the white walkers arrived, and the pact lasted for 2000 years more after they were defeated. She is clearly referring to something else. Also, the Night King is DIFFERENT from the Night's King. The Night's King was a man, not an Other.

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If Eddard Stark left any confirmation about the truth of Jon's parentage I suspect it would be in his own crypt. Maybe a sealed document that is to be opened upon the event of his death. So if it is a crypt reveal it would be if Howland Reed returns Eddard's remains and when they open the crypt they see a scroll or whatever with Eddard's and Howland's seals. Howland scoops it up, dusts it off and has one of the other lords open and read it. Disclaimer this assumes R+L+J is fact and that Jon in truth is not a bastard. The contents would read something like this:

I Eddard of the House Stark, Lord of Winterfell and Warden of the North along with Howland of House Reed Lord of the Neck and Greywater Watch do place our seals upon this document so all may know that the words contained are the truth. Let it be known that the boy called Jon Snow, whom I returned from the rebellion and claimed as my son, is in truth Jon (since we do not know his real name) Targaryen. The true born (if Jon is a bastard his lineage would matter very little in my opinion) son of my sister Lyanna Stark and Prince Rhaeger Targaryen, and he is the rightful King of the Seven Kingdoms. Should his Grace, King Jon Targaryen, still live I beg his forgiveness for mine and Lord Reed's deception. It was done to protect you from the wrath of Robert Baratheon as I promised my sister, your mother, Lyanna. Should his Grace be deceased this is why I had him buried in his own section of the Winterfell Crypts. I would implore Jon to not seek the Iron Throne and grant him (insert lands here) and all of the attendant incomes that come with it. I also ask that he be legitimized as a Stark.

Signed:                                           Witnessed by:

Eddard Stark                                   Howland Reed

 

To me this seems the most legitimate way for a crypt reveal. Any thoughts?

Edited by Slaysman

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On ‎9‎/‎22‎/‎2016 at 2:27 PM, Slaysman said:

If Eddard Stark left any confirmation about the truth of Jon's parentage I suspect it would be in his own crypt. Maybe a sealed document that is to be opened upon the event of his death. So if it is a crypt reveal it would be if Howland Reed returns Eddard's remains and when they open the crypt they see a scroll or whatever with Eddard's and Howland's seals. Howland scoops it up, dusts it off and has one of the other lords open and read it. Disclaimer this assumes R+L+J is fact and that Jon in truth is not a bastard. The contents would read something like this:

I Eddard of the House Stark, Lord of Winterfell and Warden of the North along with Howland of House Reed Lord of the Neck and Greywater Watch do place our seals upon this document so all may know that the words contained are the truth. Let it be known that the boy called Jon Snow, whom I returned from the rebellion and claimed as my son, is in truth Jon (since we do not know his real name) Targaryen. The true born (if Jon is a bastard his lineage would matter very little in my opinion) son of my sister Lyanna Stark and Prince Rhaeger Targaryen, and he is the rightful King of the Seven Kingdoms. Should his Grace, King Jon Targaryen, still live I beg his forgiveness for mine and Lord Reed's deception. It was done to protect you from the wrath of Robert Baratheon as I promised my sister, your mother, Lyanna. Should his Grace be deceased this is why I had him buried in his own section of the Winterfell Crypts. I would implore Jon to not seek the Iron Throne and grant him (insert lands here) and all of the attendant incomes that come with it. I also ask that he be legitimized as a Stark.

Signed:                                           Witnessed by:

Eddard Stark                                   Howland Reed

 

To me this seems the most legitimate way for a crypt reveal. Any thoughts?

So, Howland Reed go's into the tomb and finds a scroll signed by.......Howland Reed. Yeah, that won't raise any red flags........

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The only thing Jon needs right now is Lightbringer aka Dawn. That is what is going to be found in the crypt.

The prince who was promised needs the sword and it needs to be activated by a willing blood sacrifice. Which is much more consistent with the scenes in the ToJ than the folk saying Lyanna gave birth and the baby was washed and cleaned in the time it took Ned to run up a flight of steps.

The book dream has Jon running down the steps thinking he is not a Stark. That is the only reliable evidence we have on his parentage.

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Dawn is the 'bleeding star' from The Prophecy.  Ned carries it into the room where Jon is/was being born. Covered in blood from Neds friends and from Dayne.

Hmm... it _could_ be in the crypt. Did Ned return it to House Dayne?

Is it Lightbringer?  good question.  Other candidates would be: Longclaw, which Jon currently carries.  Heartsbane, which Sam has, Oathkeeper (orignally part of Ice) that Brienne has, the remnant of Ice that Jamie carries, and Dany's dragons (living fire)

re. the WW ... Was it Leaf who created the 1st?  maybe.  maybe not.  how long do the Children live?  The original turning appears to be at the same tree that Brandon, Meera, Hodor, et al goto.  Where the 3-eyed Raven resided before Brandon.  The Childrens magic was strong enough to keep the WW and the dead outside the Tree.

If one recalls, the WW create their own, now.  They reproduce/replenish on their own.  The NK turned one of Craster's baby sons into a baby WW, did he not?  The Children are no longer needed for this.

 After the Pact, the Children and the First Men ceased fighting and even made common cause.  The WW did not stop fighting and instead turned on their enemies new 'allies' -- their own creators.  It could be that the WW forced the First Men (thru Brandon ... the Builder?) to the negotiating table.  But the CotF could not unmake their great weapon, nor make it/them stand down.

Is Rheagar the NK?  nah.  He was likely burned after the Trident in some 'official' ceremony.

Could the the NK be a Stark or Stark ancestor? ... perhaps ...

Could the NK be 8-10,000+ years old?  Sure.  Why not?  He is already 'dead'.  Killed as part of the ritual at the Tree.  Heh ... as the Ironborn say 'what is (already) dead may never die'   :)

Edited by Thror Baratheon

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On 9/22/2016 at 2:27 PM, Slaysman said:

If Eddard Stark left any confirmation about the truth of Jon's parentage I suspect it would be in his own crypt. Maybe a sealed document that is to be opened upon the event of his death. So if it is a crypt reveal it would be if Howland Reed returns Eddard's remains and when they open the crypt they see a scroll or whatever with Eddard's and Howland's seals. Howland scoops it up, dusts it off and has one of the other lords open and read it. Disclaimer this assumes R+L+J is fact and that Jon in truth is not a bastard. The contents would read something like this:

I Eddard of the House Stark, Lord of Winterfell and Warden of the North along with Howland of House Reed Lord of the Neck and Greywater Watch do place our seals upon this document so all may know that the words contained are the truth. Let it be known that the boy called Jon Snow, whom I returned from the rebellion and claimed as my son, is in truth Jon (since we do not know his real name) Targaryen. The true born (if Jon is a bastard his lineage would matter very little in my opinion) son of my sister Lyanna Stark and Prince Rhaeger Targaryen, and he is the rightful King of the Seven Kingdoms. Should his Grace, King Jon Targaryen, still live I beg his forgiveness for mine and Lord Reed's deception. It was done to protect you from the wrath of Robert Baratheon as I promised my sister, your mother, Lyanna. Should his Grace be deceased this is why I had him buried in his own section of the Winterfell Crypts. I would implore Jon to not seek the Iron Throne and grant him (insert lands here) and all of the attendant incomes that come with it. I also ask that he be legitimized as a Stark.

Signed:                                           Witnessed by:

Eddard Stark                                   Howland Reed

 

To me this seems the most legitimate way for a crypt reveal. Any thoughts?

 

Hmm... unlikely.   Has the potential to be discovered and opened and read at any time.  To risky.  Would violate Ned's promise to Lyanna.  It is doubtful that Ned left any clues re. Jon's true ancestry.  Only Howland Reed and now Brandon the Youngest  know the truth.  And Wylla, if she is still alive.

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