Attitude

Will the tombs reveal Jons parentage? [Spoilers]

218 posts in this topic

11 hours ago, Adam141414 said:

I think the only two avenues to discover Jons parentage, are Brans visions or Littlefinger revealing a secret he has long knew (as most point out - the look he gave Sansa when she told the story of Raeghar raping Lyanna suggests Sansas version isnt correct). 

 

 

 

This. Tombs reveal are not happening for TV, for books .... maaaybe... but I doubt it, this feels like Red Herring there. I can see in the books Jon finding out about L+R=J first and then going to tombs to brood and perhaps finding something

11 hours ago, Adam141414 said:

 

If LF wants to marry Sansa, but faces resistance from Jon, he could reveal his secret and forever de-legitimize Jon from attaining the Stark name, thus pulling the rug out from under him. 

 

But wouldn't LF actions legitimize Jon as a King of all Westeros instead, so Northerners crowning him a King of the North would feel more justified and self-righteous? Since Jon would be Stark AND Targ with far more legitimacy to Iron Throne than any Lannister, Martell basically anyone other than Dany?

 

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12 minutes ago, Masha said:

But wouldn't LF actions legitimize Jon as a King of all Westeros instead, so Northerners crowning him a King of the North would feel more justified and self-righteous? Since Jon would be Stark AND Targ with far more legitimacy to Iron Throne than any Lannister, Martell basically anyone other than even Dany?

Fixed that for you. 

Quote

In the eyes of many, the Great Council of 101 AC thereby established an iron precedent on matters of succession: regardless of seniority, the Iron Throne of Westeros could not pass to a woman, nor through a woman to her male descendents.

 

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Maybe Lyanna Mormont attends Rickon's burial and Jon after shows her the tomb of her namesake. Then the surprise reveal.

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3 hours ago, MtnLion said:

Fixed that for you. 

 

At this point, even if Jon is acknowledged as legit Targ, son of Rhaegar, Dany still takes precedence with her 3 dragons unless Jon manages to get one of his own regardless of precedence or Great Council ruling. 

Edited by Masha

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1 hour ago, Masha said:

At this point, even if Jon is acknowledged as legit Targ, son of Rhaegar, Dany still takes precedence with her 3 dragons unless Jon manages to get one of his own regardless of precedence or Great Council ruling. 

So, you are saying that Daenerys should just tell her nephew to go fuck himself, and be a usurper, too?  That would fit pretty much with her narcissistic temperament. 

Edited by MtnLion

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16 minutes ago, MtnLion said:

So, you are saying that Daenerys should just tell her nephew to go fuck himself, and be a usurper, too?  That would fit pretty much with her narcissistic temperament. 

I don't know. But do you really think that both of them have that kind of temparament both in the books and in the show? 

1) Jon with ambition to fight for Iron Throne?

2) Dany to give up her Throne (and her Dragons) to Jon? At best, she will demand that he marry her as a good Targ heir. At worst, she would choose to oppose him.

 

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Technically Brandon was a Lord of Winterfell, even for only a short period, because he was forced to watch his father's death before being killed himself. So he had a right to a statue in the crypts. Lyanna was the only one who should not have had a statue.

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On ‎6‎/‎20‎/‎2016 at 2:17 AM, nickdt said:

But are Neds bones in WF. Jon doesn't know that at all. What if this is a way for the writers to let Jon go down, only to find out Neds bones aren't there and then let Howland Reed descent from the Neck to bring the bones to Winterfell. 

They don't need to be in Winterfell. Rickon was to be buried in the crypts next to his father's tomb after the battle of the bastards. That would be a mechanism for providing Jon a reason to go down there.

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On ‎6‎/‎20‎/‎2016 at 4:08 AM, Nerevanin said:

Even in the books Catelyn gets the bones and she sends them to Winterfell. However, it is not known if they reached Winterfell, presumably they didn't. I think it's the same situation in the show, unless I'm mistaken.

Lady Dustin rerouted them to be food for her dogs.

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17 hours ago, Quyen Thuy Tran said:

I think it means to the fight against WW, not to people in Westeros. Who is going to prove that he is actually a dragon when his looks is totally a Stark? Who will believe? I doubt that Dany will believe if she heard of it. I guess that his heritage will be the reason he can fight against WW but Westeros people will always see him as the bastard of Winterfell. And it means to him because he finally knows who is this mother (and father). I doubt that he would be proud of his true father. Lol

Daenerys has her own source of information in the form of Quaithe. She will learn of these things independently of Jon, so it will not be necessary for him to convince her.

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7 hours ago, Old Blue Eyes said:

So what about Benjen?  Does he not know the truth about Jon?  He certainly alludes to it ("If you only knew what it meant.").   Perhaps he has a reason for being in the Night's Watch, and we know he is headed south to the Wall with Bran - and probably not to camp at Castle Black.  Benjen is (un)dead, and not necessarily bound to his vows to the NW.  Would he not be Lord of Winterfell, or is he trying to get Bran past the Wall for sinister reasons (to break the spell and allow the Army of the Dead through)?

Perhaps he gets Bran and Meera through to Winterfell, tells Jon of his lineage, and becomes Lord of Winterfell?  Is any of this possible?

No, because when you take the vows to join the Nights Watch, or the Kingsguard, you forego your claims to any inheritance you had. That was the situation with Jaime and Aemon, and it would apply to Benjen as well.

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7 hours ago, MtnLion said:

My thought is that Jon will find a silver harp that is named in Lyanna's tomb.  It could be a dragon egg, a sigil ring, a marriage cloak, any number of things, but I really like the harp. 

There might well be an unhatched dragon egg in the deepest part of the tomb, beyond the collapsed section.

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5 hours ago, Andrés Garcia said:

Lyanna's tomb contains a Targaryen wedding cloak.

Which would prove nothing. Likewise with the harp theory.

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2 hours ago, MtnLion said:

So, you are saying that Daenerys should just tell her nephew to go fuck himself, and be a usurper, too?  That would fit pretty much with her narcissistic temperament. 

She would be trueborn, and he would be a bastard. So the order of inheritance would be pretty clear unless she was also Rhaegar's bastard.

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9 hours ago, IrisBest said:

How would LF know and better yet, if he did know why hasn't he used that information sooner. He could have destroyed Ned with it a long time ago and with far less effort lol.

A secret is best held in check.  Once a secret is revealed, it loses all it's power. Sure it will have consequences, but it is a one off.  And I agree he did not want to see Ned destroyed.  Merely out of the way.  And you can bet, since LF was in love with Cat, he would have investigated Ned's infidelity.  I would have. Secrets are what makes him who he is.  He is not from a Great House, when all this started, he was not a Great Lord, he is wealthy however, I would say on par with Illyrio, maybe not quite as much, but in the ball park.But his wealth he attained on his own.  His ability to gather information is what makes him The Most Dangerous Man in Westeros.His knowledge is his power.

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12 hours ago, Nakraal said:

The only logical way that the tombs will reveal Jon's parentage is imho in Ned's tomb.

Assuming the tomb of each family member is build while he is still alive, Ned could plant the answer in his own, knowing that his tomb will not be disturbed by anyone until he is dead (literally taking the secret to his grave).

In the books the Silent Sisters entomb his remains, and it is only logical they can't say- if they even care - to say anything.

I don't understand why there needs to be a hint or anything in ned's grave at all. Keep it vague, have ghost lead him to his own tomb which is deep in the crypts says "Jon Snow son of Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark" (maybe hint that bran is helping, considering he's seen toj by this point, he lead ghost down)

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10 hours ago, MtnLion said:

My thought is that Jon will find a silver harp that is named in Lyanna's tomb.  It could be a dragon egg, a sigil ring, a marriage cloak, any number of things, but I really like the harp. 

I'm still thinking this will be the case for the books... For the show I'm leaning more of a document that just says "Rhaegar and Lyanna are your parents. Your some Prince that was Promised or whatever. Give us our Emmy now please." - The D's

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21 minutes ago, drayrock said:

I don't understand why there needs to be a hint or anything in ned's grave at all. Keep it vague, have ghost lead him to his own tomb which is deep in the crypts says "Jon Snow son of Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark" (maybe hint that bran is helping, considering he's seen toj by this point, he lead ghost down)

How in the is that vague?

 

Also, why would there be a plaque saying this, and has nobody noticed before?

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5 hours ago, MtnLion said:

So, you are saying that Daenerys should just tell her nephew to go fuck himself, and be a usurper, too?  That would fit pretty much with her narcissistic temperament. 

But... the Wheel. She was going to Break it like she broke Slaver's Bay!

I mean it's really nice of her to bring over the Horde of Horse Lords who Rape, Burn, and Pillage every village they can get to, but I'm sure everyone will welcome her with open arms. Mostly because the skin has been burned off already with dragonfire.

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