Sansa is obnoxious

[Spring Bass]

I saw that as a power play. Littlefinger planted the seeds of distrust in Sansa about Jon, and Sansa knows that Rickon is basically dead either way. So if the battle goes there way . . . who is in charge of House Stark? Jon's a bastard, but he's also Ned Stark's "son" - while Sansa is technically a Bolton by marriage rights.

So what did Sansa do? She withheld information about the Vale forces, letting Jon's forces soak up the casualties and keep them from retreating into Winterfell. Then she shows up with the Vale army, wins the day, kills Ramsay, and establishes a dominant position versus Jon (whose power base has been weakened by the deaths of so many loyal to him).

[Maxxine]

2 hours ago, Sand11751 said:

Really? Based on the two-second exchange she had with Jon last episode about House Cerwyn, he didn't seem particularly interested in her opinion. He insists  on fighting now - was Jon really going to wait for the Vale knights when he commented at the war council that if Ramsay was smart, he would have waited him out in Winterfell? Jon then actually goes on to do the very darn thing Sansa says not to do; let Ramsay goad him into a stupid decision that could have reasonably cost his life and ultimately the battle.

All I've ever seen of Sansa is that she's dismissed as a stupid or silly girl, and with ample merit, she's lived up to that portrayal. She's been the tool of others since King's Landing. If she's decided she's had enough of that now, bravo for her for not playing the pawn all the time. 

Well he insisted on fighting now because he felt that whatever little army House Cerwyn could provide would not have made a difference. Had he known the Vale was coming that would have been a reason to wait. Maybe he still would have made the same decision because Sansa could not have been 100% sure they would show up or how long it would take. But you at least have to give someone all of the facts before you let them make a decision. 

[Jon Snow Bengal]

I was more angry at Jon for running stupidly at Ramsays forces when he should've run back in line with his army as planned.

Sansa tried to warn him that Ramsay would do something to provoke him. He didn't listen.

[Quyen Thuy Tran]

47 minutes ago, Electric Bass said:

I saw that as a power play. Littlefinger planted the seeds of distrust in Sansa about Jon, and Sansa knows that Rickon is basically dead either way. So if the battle goes there way . . . who is in charge of House Stark? Jon's a bastard, but he's also Ned Stark's "son" - while Sansa is technically a Bolton by marriage rights.

So what did Sansa do? She withheld information about the Vale forces, letting Jon's forces soak up the casualties and keep them from retreating into Winterfell. Then she shows up with the Vale army, wins the day, kills Ramsay, and establishes a dominant position versus Jon (whose power base has been weakened by the deaths of so many loyal to him).

Which is pretty dumb because if she is a more of a practical person she would have known that without any man of her family to support her, her claim to the north would be much weaker as she will always be married to one or another house in the north. She is not Dany who can controls dragon. She is not a fighter like Yara. She needs another Stark who can fight in battle aka Jon, other houses will not fight for a girl who can't even lift up a sword. Yes this is a sexist world but in battle power means all. 

[TickTak7]

41 minutes ago, Warsaw said:

1. She didn't even know they were coming. What was she supposed to do, get Jon's hopes up and risk him being over confident? She had no way of knowing until the last minute. And it's not like she trusts Littlefinger. I don't understand why NO ONE sees this.

2. Bad writing. Or maybe they told her that she said that when she had the idea of locking him with the hounds.

1 - It's easy to interpret her disappearing after her council with Jon as her knowing, and going off to find him. 

2 - Bad writing. Felt more like they forgot who was actually in that treating scene, or perhaps they shot a different scene but later added in the "determined sansa rides off on her own" bit in afterwards. 

[RhaenysBee]

YES. SHE IS. Sansa is a b*tch. 

[The Imp slap]

2 hours ago, tormond said:

Can we mention how she acted with the whole rickon thing. Not only did she have him for dead before the battle, his body was next to her after the battle and she had no reaction to it

She knew Ramsay better than anyone. She probably Rickon was lost the minute she heard the news. She's been Joffrey, LF and Ramsey's plaything and all the hopes she had have been shattered. Her reaction is on point IMHO. 

[Warsaw]

7 minutes ago, TickTak7 said:

1 - It's easy to interpret her disappearing after her council with Jon as her knowing, and going off to find him. 

2 - Bad writing. Felt more like they forgot who was actually in that treating scene, or perhaps they shot a different scene but later added in the "determined sansa rides off on her own" bit in afterwards. 

1. No, it's not easier. Maybe she rode to wait and see if they would come. No way to know for sure.

[DireWolfSpirit]

Sansa is not a redeeming character, she's always been obsessed with herself, her station and her priviledge at any cost to others. Better than Ramsay but a little too similar to LF to actually be a character I could like. 

She is still just a little more mature version of that terrible teen who lied to Robert and Cersei. She represents a GOT player thats in it for the power, like most GOT players, but comes up wanting as a character that could aspire to the highest ideas of honor, loyalty and justice.

She's no Queen of the North happily ever after, the House of Stark is not totally settled and Sansa may be her own undoing yet, because she will not inspire any loyalty when everyone can see how "out for herself and only herself" she is, has, and always will be. She's no leader whatsoever.

Better to have Bran or Arya or Jon leading WF than this LF clone, I do not care for her one iota.

[Rumy Stark]

3 hours ago, Sand11751 said:

Really? Based on the two-second exchange she had with Jon last episode about House Cerwyn, he didn't seem particularly interested in her opinion. He insists  on fighting now - was Jon really going to wait for the Vale knights when he commented at the war council that if Ramsay was smart, he would have waited him out in Winterfell? Jon then actually goes on to do the very darn thing Sansa says not to do; let Ramsay goad him into a stupid decision that could have reasonably cost his life and ultimately the battle.

All I've ever seen of Sansa is that she's dismissed as a stupid or silly girl, and with ample merit, she's lived up to that portrayal. She's been the tool of others since King's Landing. If she's decided she's had enough of that now, bravo for her for not playing the pawn all the time. 

This. This exactly. 

1 hour ago, Warsaw said:

1. She didn't even know they were coming. What was she supposed to do, get Jon's hopes up and risk him being over confident? She had no way of knowing until the last minute. And it's not like she trusts Littlefinger. I don't understand why NO ONE sees this.

2. Bad writing. Or maybe they told her that she said that when she had the idea of locking him with the hounds.

Yep. She begged him to wait but couldn't tell him why because she didn't know that they'd come, etc. He didn't listen. Everyone got lucky. 

[RhaenysBee]

God I hate Sansa. And no, I don't think it's bad writing, I think they are going exactly for this type of Sansa and I can totally see book Sansa going this way too. Everybody expects that one to become a player too. 

I've been aching to Joffrey slap her since episode 4. 

- She lied to her only family for no reason and because she could. 

- She played behind his back for no reason and because she could. 

- She bitched about Jon trusting Davos and relying on his counsel, she mocked his effort to win Lyanna Mormont. 

- She placed more trust in Littlefinger than she did in Jon (and we all know how safe it is to trust Littlefinger). 

- all she does is criticize others without having a better solution. 

And this episode topped it. 

She goes on a Why don't you ever ask my opinion rant. I'm sorry, but she was sitting there all the while! Why didn't she say her opinion? Nobody ever files in a request for Daenerys or Yara or Arya or Catelyn or Olenna or Ygritte to say their opinion. They just say it and don't expect a request. Fine, Sansa, okay, say your opinion, what should we do differently? "I don't know." I thought I was going to fall off the sofa. You demand people to ask your opinion but you don't have one? 

This was the same with asking for help. She mocks Davos for winning 62 men from a 10 year old. What did SHE do to win those 62 men from the 10 year old? She stood there and said nothing. 

She knows Ramsay's way of thinking, great. So tell us what would Ramsay do. Nah, come on I don't know his way of thinking that much, I mean we only ever met when he came to my room to abuse me, it's not like we discussed politics. Just don't do what he expects you to do and don't make mistakes. Wow,  thank you Sansa, that was truly insightful, none of my lieutenants thought of that! 

And then... She shows up with Littlefinher and that fucking grin on her face. Why, again, did you NOT tell Jon that the Vale might help? Because it wasn't sure? Jon would have know that much too. 

And then she fed Ramsay to the dogs and told him he was nothing.  And then she turned her back and walked away with another one of those grins. All hail Lady Cersei Stark of Winterfell. 

 

[Drogo_1]

3 minutes ago, RhaeBee said:

God I hate Sansa.

Completely agree with you. Except you left out the cold callousness she displayed last episode. She has already totally written off rescuing her little brother. She does not get upset or mourn him at all on camera. She is standing next to his dead arrow riddled body and all she wants to do is have Jon tell her it's her turn to kill Ramsey. I never liked Sansa, but seeing her so indifferent to her murdered little brother made me wish for her to have a slow painful death.

[lalunadelmar]

4 hours ago, RedSwordBlueEyes said:

It seems to me that the development of plot points without the books to draw on, have suffered. Sansa's and Arya's stories doesn't seem to make a lot of sense 

I agree. It feels like the writers just threw logic out the window when writing their storylines. 

[NutBurz]

"Dear viewers,

I´m ever so sorry if I´m not traumatized in a way that´s pleasing for you.

Sincerely not yours,

Sansa The Wolf Queen."

[Stannistician]

2 minutes ago, NutBurz said:

"Dear viewers,

I´m ever so sorry if I´m not traumatized in a way that´s pleasing for you.

Sincerely not yours,

Sansa The Wolf Queen."

Sansa the Lion-Mockingbird Queen

fixed

[Warsaw]

1 minute ago, NutBurz said:

"Dear viewers,

I´m ever so sorry if I´m not traumatized in a way that´s pleasing for you.

Sincerely not yours,

Sansa The Wolf Queen."

 

Thank you.

[SerMixalot]

1 minute ago, Stannistician said:

Sansa the Lion-Mockingbird Queen

fixed

Sansa the Flayed Lion-Mockingbird Queen

fixed

[tugela]

4 hours ago, Sand11751 said:

Yeah, because everybody always takes Sansa so seriously. If she'd just opened up her big fat mouth a little wider, surely Jon would have listened to, "I've got a couple thousand knights in the Vale who'll help us! I don't know when they'll show up, but if we just sit around and wait, they'll come. I know they will. And surely when Ramsay sees this happening and knows we now outnumber his forces, he won't hid out in Winterfell so we have to deal with a never-ending siege."

By the old gods and the new, the Sansa hate is real.

Sansa is the leader of house Stark in the absence of Rickon, NOT Jon. It was the duty of the commanders to consult her on matters of war and get buy off, but they failed to do this. That is what she was pissed about. She did not disclose the Vale request because she had no way of knowing when or if it would be honored. The Vale situation had political overtones that went well beyond winning the battle that had to be considered, and in fact if the Vale had joined prior to the battle, Ramsey would have just waited them out in the castle. At some point the Vale would have returned home, and Ramsey would win.

Ideally the Starks needed to win back Winterfell without outside assistance. Winning it back with outside assistance would make them vassals of the assisting state, and that is what she was trying to avoid. Those concepts would have been completely over Jon's head. He was all about the short term, Sansa was about the long term. Ideally they needed to be talking to each other, but effective communication was lacking.

Like all conflicts, there is a political dimension as well as a military one. Jon was only concerned with the military dimension, whereas Sansa was concerned about the political dimension. Those were their respective skill sets. Ser Davos was acting as their equivalent of a Secretary of State.

[NutBurz]

1 minute ago, Stannistician said:

Sansa the Lion-Mockingbird Queen

fixed

Ok, I´ll give you half this point, but just until she literally throw Littlefinger to the wolves in the last season.

[TargaryenLoyalist]

Nonsense on stilts. Sansa couldn't be sure the Vale knights would get there in time. All power to her.