Robb_Warged Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 Mel presents interesting ethical/philosophical questions. Can one do do enough good deeds to justify forgiveness for a heinous crime? Can we measure goodness/evilness of actions? If one has more good deeds than bad, does that mean they should be pardoned for things? Burning an innocent girl to death, especially doing it because you THINK (but are wrong), that your leader is chosen by God is horrible. But she brought back Jon to life and the North couldn't be restored without him and even more good will come from it. Does that call for a pardon on the Shireen situation? Does it really not matter because Shireen wouldn't have been torched had Mel been "better" at her vision stuff and realized Jon is who she was supposed to be supporting? The whole situation raises a lot of discussion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robb_Warged Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 3 minutes ago, HellasLEAF said: Jon handled that perfectly. Let her leave. But never return. I was amazed at how good of a solution it was. It was such a simple solution and quite fair. You brought me back to life, I'm pardoning you with your life, but just this once. Never come back or you'll die Probably one of the most just solutions to a grey issue I've ever seen in this show. Grey because while she did kill Shireen in vain, she did help in the end Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgeIAF Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 She will meet Arya though It will be interesting to see how that will unfold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
princess_snow Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 41 minutes ago, GeorgeIAF said: She will meet Arya though It will be interesting to see how that will unfold. Yes ! I think shell come back toward the end with Dany mayhaps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banner Without Brothers Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 48 minutes ago, GeorgeIAF said: She will meet Arya though It will be interesting to see how that will unfold. Oh nice, I hadn't thought of that. Brienne should be heading that way as well along with the Brotherhood and Hound we might have a Mexican stand off at the Neck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Lannister Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 1 hour ago, Robb_Warged said: Mel presents interesting ethical/philosophical questions. Can one do do enough good deeds to justify forgiveness for a heinous crime? Can we measure goodness/evilness of actions? If one has more good deeds than bad, does that mean they should be pardoned for things? "A good act does not wash out the bad, nor a bad act the good. Each should have its own reward." -Stannis Baratheon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aerys Blackfyre Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 She will become lady stoneheart and lead the bwb to the North where the real threat is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Onion Kniggit Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 On 6/20/2016 at 1:58 PM, Daemos said: Besides, she took Shireen from Davos, but she gave Jon. I'd say her debt is settled if she had one in this regard. and someone who Davos worships told him "A good act does not wash out the bad!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricardoromell Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 10 minutes ago, Aerys Blackfyre said: She will become lady stoneheart and lead the bwb to the North where the real threat is I do not know if you were making a jest but that might make for a bloody brilliant twist .... She dies by Arya / Brienne. And Berric gives her the kiss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bastard of the Dreadfort Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 She dead. Like so dead. Like OMG dead. That Red Woman is dead. Unless she joins Dany or Cersei, then yeah. She dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Survivor92 Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 We don't even know if she really was the one who resurrected Jon. It could still be related to the Night King, Bloodraven or Jon being reborn like Daenerys. Also, realistically, Jon basically gave her a death sentence. She is on the road South alone with winter all around her. Unless she takes of her glamor fast the first bandit she meets is gonna rape and kill her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Tiger Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 Just now, Survivor92 said: We don't even know if she really was the one who resurrected Jon. It could still be related to the Night King, Bloodraven or Jon being reborn like Daenerys. Also, realistically, Jon basically gave her a death sentence. She is on the road South alone with winter all around her. Unless she takes of her glamor fast the first bandit she meets is gonna rape and kill her. Look at you using rationality and clear understanding of what medieval times were like. How cute. No but seriously, considering this is D&D we're talking about, im thinking she's gonna becomed the new Gendry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Survivor92 Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 1 minute ago, Red Tiger said: Look at you using rationality and clear understanding of what medieval times were like. How cute. No but seriously, considering this is D&D we're talking about, im thinking she's gonna becomed the new Gendry. I agree. I think they want to get rid of some characters but realized that killing them all off would be too easy and reduce the shock value for future deaths. Which is true and something they should've realized sooner, imo. Gendry rowing off, Melisandre being sent away... I think these are basically final scenes for those characters on the show. Perhaps the same is true for Jorah or he'll come back for one episode (RockSmash against the Night King to save Daenerys). And yeah I should know better than applying medieval logic to this show... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Tiger Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 26 minutes ago, Survivor92 said: I agree. I think they want to get rid of some characters but realized that killing them all off would be too easy and reduce the shock value for future deaths. Which is true and something they should've realized sooner, imo. Gendry rowing off, Melisandre being sent away... I think these are basically final scenes for those characters on the show. Perhaps the same is true for Jorah or he'll come back for one episode (RockSmash against the Night King to save Daenerys). And yeah I should know better than applying medieval logic to this show... Witness Euron getting crushed by Dany in episode 1. The first four episodes building to some kind of conflict between Jon and Sansa, only for D&D to backtrack on it and just kill of LF for budget plot reasons. Arya going to KL to wack Cersei, when at this point Cersei's a goner anyway Jaime still finding some way to love Cersei Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Arthur Hightower Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 2 hours ago, Lord Lannister said: "A good act does not wash out the bad, nor a bad act the good. Each should have its own reward." -Stannis Baratheon 2 hours ago, The Onion Kniggit said: and someone who Davos worships told him "A good act does not wash out the bad!" These Stannis quotes are making me really angry with the show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nefertari Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 On 26/6/2016 at 10:12 AM, Stag_legion said: He indirectly killed a brother who was at war with him after he presented his brother with a way out that was disregarded. Kinslaying in the context of dynastic disputes is not a rare thing. Your relatives are often the ones who pose the most serious threat to your claims! You are obviously a show only poster, since if you really had read the books you d know how unwilling stannis was to burn Edric and how he was relived when Davos took him away. Stannis' fanatic aspects are all D&D's creation. I really can't understand why some of the people who hate Stannis SO much are at the same time willing to give Melisandre a pass. My comment was only for the TVshow(this is the section), i also read the book but i cannot really comment about it since i consider TVshow and the Books two different things. Also, no matter how unwilling , he still was ready to burn Edric, obviusly Stannis has his priorities and the Throne come first. He was at war with Renly, this is true, but he murdered him before the battle started. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IamMe90 Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 8 minutes ago, Nefertari said: He was at war with Renly, this is true, but he murdered him before the battle started. Yes, such a more morally despicable action to take than letting an actual battle, with collectively over one hundred thousand soldiers involved, occur, during which thousands of lives would invariably have been lost, and during which Renly or Stannis would have probably killed each other anyway. the point i'm trying to make is that war is not an ethical venture, regardless of who is in the right. Stannis killing Renly via the most efficient means possible and saving countless lives by doing so is not a saintly action - but it's also not the devilish one people seem to think it is. Especially given how much we find out it actually pains him later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nefertari Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 19 minutes ago, IamMe90 said: Yes, such a more morally despicable action to take than letting an actual battle, with collectively over one hundred thousand soldiers involved, occur, during which thousands of lives would invariably have been lost, and during which Renly or Stannis would have probably killed each other anyway. the point i'm trying to make is that war is not an ethical venture, regardless of who is in the right. Stannis killing Renly via the most efficient means possible and saving countless lives by doing so is not a saintly action - but it's also not the devilish one people seem to think it is. Especially given how much we find out it actually pains him later. I really doubt Stannis concern was that of his soldiers lifes(haha), he was just aware he would failed in an actual battle. No matter how people try to give Stannis a free pass, he broke a truce time, its not something a person of honor should do , its the same as Lord Frey killing everone at the red wedding, it was not time for a battle, it was a villain act , you can say also for Lord Frey that in that way he spared the lifes of lots of people unlike if he declared war to Robb.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IamMe90 Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 Just now, Nefertari said: I really doubt Stannis concern was that of his soldiers lifes(haha), he was just aware he would failed in an actual battle. No matter how people try to give Stannis a free pass, he broke a truce time, its not something a person of honor should do , its the same as Lord Frey killing everone at the red wedding, it was not time for a battle, it was a villain act , you can say also for Lord Frey that in that way he spared the lifes of lots of people unlike if he declared war to Robb.... you didn't actually address anything I said. Also, your comparison is bullshit. Walder Frey specifically gave his (given the culture, pretty much sacrosanct) word that Robb and his army would be safe at the Twins. Stannis gave no such assurance to Renly. Not only that, but Robb and Walder weren't, you know, directly at war with each other. I also find it funny that you think I'm trying to give Stannis a free pass. I'm not. I think Stannis, in the books, was a complicated character who ultimately made a lot of mistakes, but not out of malice or evil. I think the show completely butchered that complexity. Also, whether Stannis's concern was his soldiers, or the outcome of the battle, doesn't change the fact that he took the action which saved the most lives, at that point in the story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SevasTra82 Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 1 hour ago, Survivor92 said: I agree. I think they want to get rid of some characters but realized that killing them all off would be too easy and reduce the shock value for future deaths. Which is true and something they should've realized sooner, imo. Gendry rowing off, Melisandre being sent away... I think these are basically final scenes for those characters on the show. Perhaps the same is true for Jorah or he'll come back for one episode (RockSmash against the Night King to save Daenerys). And yeah I should know better than applying medieval logic to this show... I still hold a glimmer of hope that Gendry will at least come back in some capacity. Especially since the BwB has been re-introduced, and Arya is back in Westeros. The Show loves to have people "disappear" until they have a purpose again (see the BwB for example). I can see some easy ways that Gendry is brought back. As for Mel....the show could have killed her off, but they didn't (combine that with her quote about seeing Arya again), so it leads me to believe that she still serves a purpose in the show. Though I do agree with the "final scene" bit you said, I just think Mel is way too important of a character to just be "shoo'ed away" and never to be seen again. My money is on her winding up with Dany.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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