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Is Val Important


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I have read many threads regarding the importance of Val in the story. People think she is some sort of priestess or is possibly a future lover of a resurrected Jon. On all these threads however many people commented that the fact that Val is not in the show means she has no important role to play. These threads are somewhat outdated now as the most recent ones came before season 5 before. Now that season 6 is almost over and its become clear how many major characters and plots are getting cut (JonCon, Young Griff, Arianne, Victarion, quentyn, Lady Stoneheart, good dornish plot, real bloodraven) has anyone changed their minds. 

 I know we really haven't seen a lot of her and grrm hasn't given her any depth or backstory yet, but I really love Val and I would love for her and Jon hook up. All these characters are so depressed. It would cool to see two awesome people get together and find some happiness together. I would like to see more conversation between them before they start of course. I know they do a bit a flirting but I feel like they still don't really know each other well enough for their relationship to be believable.

 

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Important to whom?  She's still got some symbolic importance to the Wildlings and Stannis seems to feel that she is important as a bargaining chip.  Will she be instrumental in the fight against the Others?  Probably not.  Might she play some role in the political maneuverings up north?  Maybe.  Will she kill Shireen to prevent the spread of greyscale?  I hope not.

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She delivered Mance's son, in the middle of a battle.

She provides Jon with (platonic) human contact when he is struggling with the loneliness of command.

She went on a mission north of the wall, alone, and succeeded in contacting Tormund, bringing him to Castle Black to parley with Jon. As a direct result over three thousand free folk are saved from the Others (for now) and kept out of the army of wights. As a side effect this contributes to the mutiny and Jon's stabbing.

Her presence at Castle Black causes tension between Jon and the Queen's Men, leading to Ser Patrek being dismembered by Wun Wun after making his ill advised attempt at seeing her. This provides the distraction Jon's attackers have been waiting for.

So, no she is not important.

 

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1 hour ago, Hammer of the Gods said:

I have read many threads regarding the importance of Val in the story. People think she is some sort of priestess or is possibly a future lover of a resurrected Jon. On all these threads however many people commented that the fact that Val is not in the show means she has no important role to play. These threads are somewhat outdated now as the most recent ones came before season 5 before. Now that season 6 is almost over and its become clear how many major characters and plots are getting cut (JonCon, Young Griff, Arianne, Victarion, quentyn, Lady Stoneheart, good dornish plot, real bloodraven) has anyone changed their minds. 

 I know we really haven't seen a lot of her and grrm hasn't given her any depth or backstory yet, but I really love Val and I would love for her and Jon hook up. All these characters are so depressed. It would cool to see two awesome people get together and find some happiness together. I would like to see more conversation between them before they start of course. I know they do a bit a flirting but I feel like they still don't really know each other well enough for their relationship to be believable.

 

Val will be majorly important. GRRM stated a long time ago that his characters and the story will be introduced in three 'waves'. She was introduced as part of the second act. I could talk about Val for days! You are correct, we have little info on her, but what we do have is already immense and will just point out a few things to start with:

  1. Val is a healer and of the Old Gods, as Jon sees Ghost is and then realizes that he, himself, is also of the Old Gods.
  2. Having  healer of the Old Gods like Val and Morna white mask around while you are stabbed to death is going to come in way more useful than what Mel has to offer.
  3. Jon is also starting to see himself more a wildling by the mid- end of Dance.
  4. Val sings to the "Little Monster" and we have already seen in Essos and Westeros that different witches sing spells. Val is protecting the wildling baby because she knows she has to leave and she wants the baby safe. She passes it off to Jon playfully as , "I can't help it if the baby happens to hear me sing."
  5. Jon has a romantic thing for her but feels he is not worthy on some level because he is a bastard. Honestly, the way Jon feels about himself compared to Val and the whole highborn-prince-princess thing could be a thread on it's own. The phrase "you know nothing Jon Snow" carries over to here. Jon still knows nothing about himself and how he would be worthy of the wildling princess. (He is the prince that was promised).
  6. Jon already "stole" Val when Stannis came riding in and sacked Mance's camp outside the wall. Val asks about Jarl and this event twice (?) just to make sure. Again, "you know nothing Jon Snow" because he is the only one that does not see it yet.
  7. Most importantly, she is well respected within the entire wilding community and can travel unmolested and even aided by different clans. When Jon secretly sends her out, she comes back as promised and when promised. She is competent and loyal.
  8. The passage I put below shows how Jon thinks of Val, and what he wants long term. But again, we the readers know what Jon is still blind to. He needs to still open his eyes like Ghost when he found the wolf as a pup. Ghost was the only one with his eyes already open.
  9. Ghost really likes her, and we all know that if your dog doesn't like your girlfriend/boyfriend, then it's time to break up ^_^
    1. Mel uses potions and Magic once to fool Ghost into coming over to her while Mel used a "small" glamour to make herself look like Ygritte for a moment to lure Jon over to her. This was a false disguise. Val was true.
  10. ADDING: When Jon stole Val, the constellation "Thief" was in the "Moonmaid". Mormont's raven calls Jon a "thief" several times.
    1. Jon refers to Val looking very "moonish" and silvery when their breath mingles in the air. Again with the repetition of the Moon and Stars attraction theme for the main characters in the story.
  11. Stannis sees the high worth of Val and tries to marry her off to the higherborn knights in his service. We all know that ain't happening! Jon does know this... which is very curious. But no matter, because whoever Stannis puts in Winterfell, Val comes with the castle.

A Storm of Swords - Jon XII

Ygritte wanted me to be a wildling. Stannis wants me to be the Lord of Winterfell. But what do I want? The sun crept down the sky to dip behind the Wall where it curved through the western hills. Jon watched as that towering expanse of ice took on the reds and pinks of sunset. Would I sooner be hanged for a turncloak by Lord Janos, or forswear my vows, marry Val, and become the Lord of Winterfell? It seemed an easy choice when he thought of it in those terms . . . though if Ygritte had still been alive, it might have been even easier. Val was a stranger to him. She was not hard on the eyes, certainly, and she had been sister to Mance Rayder's queen, but still . . .
I would need to steal her if I wanted her love, but she might give me children. I might someday hold a son of my own blood in my arms. A son was something Jon Snow had never dared dream of, since he decided to live his life on the Wall. I could name him Robb. Val would want to keep her sister's son, but we could foster him at Winterfell, and Gilly's boy as well. Sam would never need to tell his lie. We'd find a place for Gilly too, and Sam could come visit her once a year or so. Mance's son and Craster's would grow up brothers, as I once did with Robb.
He wanted it, Jon knew then. He wanted it as much as he had ever wanted anything. I have always wanted it, he thought, guiltily. May the gods forgive me. It was a hunger inside him, sharp as a dragonglass blade. A hunger . . . he could feel it. It was food he needed, prey, a red deer that stank of fear or a great elk proud and defiant. He needed to kill and fill his belly with fresh meat and hot dark blood. His mouth began to water with the thought.

 

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1 hour ago, Hammer of the Gods said:

I have read many threads regarding the importance of Val in the story. People think she is some sort of priestess or is possibly a future lover of a resurrected Jon. On all these threads however many people commented that the fact that Val is not in the show means she has no important role to play. These threads are somewhat outdated now as the most recent ones came before season 5 before. Now that season 6 is almost over and its become clear how many major characters and plots are getting cut (JonCon, Young Griff, Arianne, Victarion, quentyn, Lady Stoneheart, good dornish plot, real bloodraven) has anyone changed their minds. 

 I know we really haven't seen a lot of her and grrm hasn't given her any depth or backstory yet, but I really love Val and I would love for her and Jon hook up. All these characters are so depressed. It would cool to see two awesome people get together and find some happiness together. I would like to see more conversation between them before they start of course. I know they do a bit a flirting but I feel like they still don't really know each other well enough for their relationship to be believable.

 

One more thing... the show leaving out people or killing them too early mean absolute fuck all.

Besides, they have to cherry pick what they "have time" for and who will make the greatest villain and bring in the ratings. So, I wouldn't worry about that much.

I was really pissed about two/three seasons ago when the show left Val out... or maybe Val was Karsi and immediately killed... but then I realized that I was happy the show left her out so they couldn't ruin her like they did Bloodraven. Win, win.

(No more show talk in the book threads, Ms. Leech :whip:)

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1 hour ago, CJ McLannister said:

Important to whom?  She's still got some symbolic importance to the Wildlings and Stannis seems to feel that she is important as a bargaining chip.  Will she be instrumental in the fight against the Others?  Probably not.  Might she play some role in the political maneuverings up north?  Maybe.  Will she kill Shireen to prevent the spread of greyscale?  I hope not.

I am not sure how instrumental she will be against the Others, but since she is a traveler she has seen a lot and heard more. Who knows what she knows in that regards just yet. We are only halfway through ASOIAF so there is still more info to come.

I do believe she will be a larger political player up north... and south??? Jon has already mentally put Val in the highborn courts. She could be instrumental in the progress of Westeros.

Stannis sees the worth of Val and with Winterfell comes Val no matter who the Lord ends up being.

A Dance with Dragons - Jon III

The outside air seemed even colder than before. Across the castle, he could see candlelight shining from the windows of the King's Tower. Val stood on the tower roof, gazing up at the Wall. Stannis kept her closely penned in rooms above his own, but he did allow her to walk the battlements for exercise. She looks lonely, Jon thought. Lonely, and lovely. Ygritte had been pretty in her own way, with her red hair kissed by fire, but it was her smile that made her face come alive. Val did not need to smile; she would have turned men's heads in any court in the wide world.
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58 minutes ago, Mick of House Guinness said:

She delivered Mance's son, in the middle of a battle.

She provides Jon with (platonic) human contact when he is struggling with the loneliness of command.

She went on a mission north of the wall, alone, and succeeded in contacting Tormund, bringing him to Castle Black to parley with Jon. As a direct result over three thousand free folk are saved from the Others (for now) and kept out of the army of wights. As a side effect this contributes to the mutiny and Jon's stabbing.

Her presence at Castle Black causes tension between Jon and the Queen's Men, leading to Ser Patrek being dismembered by Wun Wun after making his ill advised attempt at seeing her. This provides the distraction Jon's attackers have been waiting for.

So, no she is not important.

 

The thing with the stabbing is:

  1. I agree. There wasn't enough time to plan it all out and convince all who participated in a matter of an hour or so from Jon's announcement to the stabbing. The stabbing was planned days/weeks in advance and "the wildlings" was the excuse/catalyst that propelled the plan into action. Even loyal Pyp was getting frustrated with Jon.
  2. The wall and the Nights Watch are so old that the true meaning of their purpose is lost to time. The mutineers may have thought what Jon did was bad, but that is their current thinking and chances are the mutineers are wrong and Jon is right.
    1. remember, the NW used to be a very prestigious establishment, but it is now mostly rapers and thieves. 
  3. "The wall will fall" is probably both literal and figurative in meaning. It was actually Bowen Marsh and his crew that made the wall fall (come apart) when they stabbed Jon. This will create a great divide. The literal wall falling, if it happens, comes later by some other force.
    1. By the way, Bowen Marsh was already having some regret for doing what he did in the stabbing. Could something have propelled him????. From Dance:  "Then Bowen Marsh stood there before him, tears running down his cheeks. "For the Watch." He punched Jon in the belly. When he pulled his hand away, the dagger stayed where he had buried it."
  4. If Val's presence was causing a disturbance at the Wall between the certain men, that is their fault and not hers. She knows where she belongs and is shown to be strong enough to defend herself mentally and physically. I think this was done to show what idiots these certain men are/were. 
  5. I disagree that she is not important. GRRM did not put someone like her in the close vicinity and in the frequent thoughts of someone like Jon just before he is stabbed and will "change" just for her to disappear off page.
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Just now, Quillon said:

Challenge accepted. 

I could listen about Val for days!

Oh, I DO! :cheers:

In addition to the print books, I have them in the audiobooks and I have mentions of Val bookmarked for quick access. For such a (currently) small character, her talents are going to be well in demand pretty soon.

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14 minutes ago, The Fattest Leech said:

The thing with the stabbing is:

  1. I agree. There wasn't enough time to plan it all out and convince all who participated in a matter of an hour or so from Jon's announcement to the stabbing. The stabbing was planned days/weeks in advance and "the wildlings" was the excuse/catalyst that propelled the plan into action. Even loyal Pyp was getting frustrated with Jon.
  2. The wall and the Nights Watch are so old that the true meaning of their purpose is lost to time. The mutineers may have thought what Jon did was bad, but that is their current thinking and chances are the mutineers are wrong and Jon is right.
    1. remember, the NW used to be a very prestigious establishment, but it is now mostly rapers and thieves. 
  3. "The wall will fall" is probably both literal and figurative in meaning. It was actually Bowen Marsh and his crew that made the wall fall (come apart) when they stabbed Jon. This will create a great divide. The literal wall falling, if it happens, comes later by some other force.
    1. By the way, Bowen Marsh was already having some regret for doing what he did in the stabbing. Could something have propelled him????. From Dance:  "Then Bowen Marsh stood there before him, tears running down his cheeks. "For the Watch." He punched Jon in the belly. When he pulled his hand away, the dagger stayed where he had buried it."
  4. If Val's presence was causing a disturbance at the Wall between the certain men, that is their fault and not hers. She knows where she belongs and is shown to be strong enough to defend herself mentally and physically. I think this was done to show what idiots these certain men are/were. 
  5. I disagree that she is not important. GRRM did not put someone like her in the close vicinity and in the frequent thoughts of someone like Jon just before he is stabbed and will "change" just for her to disappear off page.

I do think Val is important, I just made the classic mistake of being sarcastic on a forum.(Really need a universal sarcasm font.) The point I was making is that she already has played an important role without the need for speculating on her future importance.

I also don't think Val is the sole cause of "for the watch", but she does play a role, albeit inadvertent.

Ultimately Val, like many secondary characters, is a plot device. It is a testament to how good a writer George is that she does not come across as one, but as a believable person in her own right, again like many secondary characters.

If Val wasn't important she wouldn't be the subject of a topic on the forum, or someone people would want to talk about for days. Or available on a t-shirt.

I am also glad she was cut from the TV show, so the writers couldn't ruin another great character. They probably would have combined her with Mother Mole and Harma Dogshead.

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Just now, Mick of House Guinness said:

I do think Val is important, I just made the classic mistake of being sarcastic on a forum.(Really need a universal sarcasm font.) The point I was making is that she already has played an important role without the need for speculating on her future importance.

I also don't think Val is the sole cause of "for the watch", but she does play a role, albeit inadvertent.

Ultimately Val, like many secondary characters, is a plot device. It is a testament to how good a writer George is that she does not come across as one, but as a believable person in her own right, again like many secondary characters.

If Val wasn't important she wouldn't be the subject of a topic on the forum, or someone people would want to talk about for days. Or available on a t-shirt.

I am also glad she was cut from the TV show, so the writers couldn't ruin another great character. They probably would have combined her with Mother Mole and Harma Dogshead.

I just made the classic mistake of being sarcastic on a forum. SUCKA!!!! I'm kidding. I know the feeling because...

(Really need a universal sarcasm font.) I agree here. Damn, some people just can't see a joke if it bit them on the cooter. :cheers:  (I guess I was guilty that time)

Or available on a t-shirt. I have not seen said t-shirt, but I did have a special Bloodraven one prinyed up for me to wear to Balticon the other weekend.

Ultimately Val, like many secondary characters, is a plot device. I've said it before and I'll say it again, everything is speculation until we read the words "The End". To me, Ygritte was way more of a plot device. Val has talents and qualities that people (Stannis and Co. & Jon) want now, and will be of value in the future. Besides, Val doesn't trust Mel and we all know that is the wisest decision. :thumbsup:

They probably would have combined her with Mother Mole and Harma Dogshead. Agreed. She would have been a literal wart-nose witch.

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5 minutes ago, The Fattest Leech said:

Damn, some people just can't see a joke if it bit them on the cooter.

Must be a cultural thing, but I have no idea what a cooter is.

 

6 minutes ago, The Fattest Leech said:

I have not seen said t-shirt

The girl on A History of Westeros podcast was wearing one on an episode. At least she said it was Val, looked like a WWE wrestler to me.

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Quote

Then he paused again and said "Jon and Val, huh? That would make a good fit

This made me hopeful about what's to come about Val when I read it last week and to my surprise now; it was from the same person who could talk about Val for hours : D

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30 minutes ago, Quillon said:

This made me hopeful about what's to come about Val when I read it last week and to my surprise now; it was from the same person who could talk about Val for hours : D

I see you found that little nugget of information :D

I didn't mention it because another poster friend of mine here on this forum told me I would have to change my name to The Braggiest Leech if I kept talking about it. :lmao:

But anyway, I too have high hopes for the future. 

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2 hours ago, zorkman said:

Whoever wrote the Pink letter thinks she is.

You see, this intrigues me a great deal. First, I believe Ramsay did write the letter, even though much may not be 100% true, because any other option seems way to convoluted and over done. 

So why would Ramsay want, or even know about Val, the wildling princess? This brings me back to the idea that Val is already linked to Winterfell in some way. First with Stannis to Jon, then with Jon thinking to himself, Stannis to other potential people, and now Ramsay/Mance back to Jon in the letter.  

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she's a wildling, yet speaks like a high born lady from south of the Wall.

there is something there.

i just have no idea what it is.

all you need to do is compare her interactions with Jon and then Ygritte's to see the difference.

i dig the theory about her, her sister, and Ned Starks mother all being of the same family tree.

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59 minutes ago, DigUpHerBones said:

she's a wildling, yet speaks like a high born lady from south of the Wall.

there is something there.

i just have no idea what it is.

all you need to do is compare her interactions with Jon and then Ygritte's to see the difference.

i dig the theory about her, her sister, and Ned Starks mother all being of the same family tree.

And remember, Mance meets Dalla and Val on the road back from his secret rendezvous in to Winterfell when Robert was there to ask Ned to be his Hand.

Val is of the old gods ;)

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7 hours ago, The Fattest Leech said:

And remember, Mance meets Dalla and Val on the road back from his secret rendezvous in to Winterfell when Robert was there to ask Ned to be his Hand.

Val is of the old gods ;)

Val is an enigma.  There are those who think she's an Other, or connected to them in some way.

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