chasing the dragons

Who will resist Dany in Westeros?

112 posts in this topic

13 hours ago, House Cambodia said:

Plenty of soldiers yes, but I'm pretty sure the show is going to waste ALL the Lannisters and Tyrells next week. They can't be doing with any tricky leaders and characters stealing show oxygen.

Kevan will probably die but Jaime is still in the RL with 8k men and who knows how many in the Westerlands. The Tyrells will take heavy casualties I suspect and this will be why George said D&D will regret cutting Willas and Garlan, I'd guess Tarly might take over since to this point his inclusion seems bizarre since they are supposedly trying to cut down on characters. 

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No one want a Dothraki Horde, but no one can stand up to Dragons.

She'll arrive to late though and the crown will be meaningless.

Even though it would be fun to see an army of Unsullied and Dothraki squaring off against Knights, I think the only real resistance she'll find will be if Bran can warg one of the Dragons and fight against her.

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On 6/20/2016 at 3:21 PM, HokieStone said:

If R+L=J, then Jon has no legitimacy, since he would still be a bastard.  Unless the theory also assumes that Rhaegar and Lyanna wed - Aegon the Conqueror married both his wives, but I don't recall if future Targaryens took multiple wives.

I have always assumed that unless they wed, R+L=J is just a mildly interesting factoid. It wouldn't substantively add to the plot, it certainly wouldn't alter Jon's character, and it wouldn't be thematic in any sense (i.e., it wouldn't change the meaning of anything).

Without the marriage Jon would just be a bastard -- pretty much what he is now.

 

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Allies:

  • Dorne
  • Tyrells
  • 1/2 Iron Islands

Enemies:

  • North
  • 1/2 Iron Islands
  • Lannisters
  • White Walkers

Uncertain:

  • Vale

Her invasion sans Aegon looks awfully simple, which I guess is good if the show only has a few episodes left but even tho I think Aegon is a bit of an ass pull I'm still gonna miss the whole thing about which kingdoms are Red states and which are Blue (or should I say Black?) states.

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Not buying into the Dany/Dorne alliance. Dany is portrayed as the quintessential good gal. It doesn't make sense to align her with Dorne. At this juncture, the Lannisters, Tyrells, Dorne, The Vale,  Ironborne, and the Freys. all have formidable forces. If a northern re-alignment occurs (this is what we will see in the North this episode), Jon will as well.

 

I don't buy into the cataclysmic event of the burning of the entire city of KL, to the extent the Tyrell Army takes significant damages, only some of the key players to date. It will be quite interesting to see where Varys shows up first.

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6 hours ago, Donaldys I Trumpagar said:

I have always assumed that unless they wed, R+L=J is just a mildly interesting factoid. It wouldn't substantively add to the plot, it certainly wouldn't alter Jon's character, and it wouldn't be thematic in any sense (i.e., it wouldn't change the meaning of anything).

Without the marriage Jon would just be a bastard -- pretty much what he is now.

 

R+L=J means that he can probably bond with and control a dragon. That strikes me as something that would alter things in ways we can't fully predict.

It also represents a reason for Dany to do a stop and rethink on her obsessive Stark-hate. Why were the Starks up in arms against her family? Oh, right, Lyanna disappeared by Rhaegar's hand, Rickard was burned alive and Brandon strangled himself trying to save his father, and then Aerys ordered Ned's summary execution.

Also, even if he's "just" a bastard - he'd be of Targaryen blood - the bastard son of the idolized Rhaegar Targaryen. That's a lot more politically significant to the Seven Kingdoms as a whole than being the bastard son of Eddard Stark - which is only of major political importance in the North.

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I do not think many people understand how military logistics work. First this massive force needs to get to Westeros by sea. Which means enough food and water for the soldiers and the horses. Having no storms and perfect winds. Flawless navigation by the ships crews. Less than lethal fights between the soldiers as tensions can run high on ships. Then the most important thing, no rampant sickness or disease. Finally after all this there is one thing that needs to be taken into account: the Iron Fleet. Theon and Yara only brought her 100 ships and to my knowledge she has no other people in her military that know anything about naval warfare.

So lets say that by some miracle this force manages to land when and where it is supposed to with no problem. You still need to unload the soldiers, set up a forward operating base, send scouts and prepare a messaging system. Given the size of Dany's army this may take months before she starts marching. Then before she starts marching they need a plan of action, who will attack where and when. Then comes the issue of setting up supply lines. This will take more time.

Winter has arrived do you think people are just going to give over their winter supplies to an invading army, especially after the amount of wars that have been recently fought? Most likely not is the answer you are looking for. So dothraki being dothraki will just kill said peasant and take their shit. The Unsullied may not kill them, but just take their shit. A few incidents like this and you can pretty much give up on local support. This is without Dany's horde even meeting local resistance. 

Once the invasion is finally underway it will not be some surprise attack. The lords across Westeros will know they are there and that they have three dragons, and they will prepare as best as they can. So unless the "savior" plans to burn everything in her path her army will be doing a lot of sieges in an unfamiliar environment. Who are her military strategists? Tyrion, Grey Worm and the Khals? Tyrion has had limited success in military matters, Grey Worm and the Unsullied are infantry soldiers who can be killed with arrow barrages, the Khals and the dothraki are used to "fighting" people who will just pay them to go away. Will they have the foresight to leave elements behind in each region to insure stability? If they do they will not be able to be used for reinforcements since there will be local fighters using guerrilla tactics against the foreign invaders. It was also shown how ineffective the Unsullied were against such tactics. If they do not their supply lines will be disrupted by local resistance groups.

Now there is the technology gap. Westerosi cavalry uses armor and lances. Has has been stated many times before you cannot underestimate the importance of armor in combat. As was seen when Jorah fought that dothraki in season 1. Now the naysayers will be like "Well if he wasn't wearing armor he would of lost!" I am not going to dispute that. The fact is he was wearing armor and that dothraki got killed. Then the lances, it was not just a tourney weapon. This is what allowed cavalry to break through enemy lines. The dothraki are not equipped to fight armored cavalry units. They may inflict casualties due to numbers, but they will also suffer heavy casualties.

Now as they push further into their conquest two things become important. The weather and the terrain. Being how the bulk of Dany's forces are the dothraki both will become a severe handicap. The dothraki are plains people they raid and pillage along those plains where their horses have the greatest advantage. They do not know the land and have not had to adopt their strategies for who knows how many generations. Soon the dothraki element becomes a hindrance to the advance, and this doubles once they begin to feel the winter. They do not know the land and are unprepared for the winter and the supply lines are just too long and will become unmanageable.

The dragons..not sure how they will fare in the winter. Will they be sluggish or fully functional? It was written that they do not do well in the rain, so not sure how they will work in the cold. Als, these are not the dragons of Aegon the Conqueror. Those dragons were huge. When Arya was in Harrenhall talking to Tywin about the dragons Aegon only used his dragon on Harrenhall. It took all three of Dany's dragons to sink a ship with flammable material on it. The dragons will be a limited resource, and will fight when they feel like it. That and when they do their fire sweeps they are stuck in a straight line, or they hover. That means any decent ballista or scorpion crew can hit and damage them.

In my opinion it is not going to be Dany rolling over Westeros, she is going to suffer major losses in terms of soldiers, horses and local support. It will also be slow going. Yes she has Dorne and the Reach on her side, that is assuming all the houses pledged to those regions have pledged their support for a foreign invasion. That is the Southern part of the kingdom. There are still the Stormlands, Westerlands, Vale, Riverlands and the North if she can make it past the Neck. With all of this in mind I believe her army to be vastly overrated. Then again it depends on how it is written. I suppose her vast military will just run through everyone with no resistance because the writers want it that way. If she does just steam roll through, the writers are idiots and anyone who thinks that is how it would anyway even more so. 

 

 

 

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On 9/22/2016 at 11:09 PM, Slaysman said:

I do not think many people understand how military logistics work. First this massive force needs to get to Westeros by sea. Which means enough food and water for the soldiers and the horses. Having no storms and perfect winds. Flawless navigation by the ships crews. Less than lethal fights between the soldiers as tensions can run high on ships. Then the most important thing, no rampant sickness or disease. Finally after all this there is one thing that needs to be taken into account: the Iron Fleet. Theon and Yara only brought her 100 ships and to my knowledge she has no other people in her military that know anything about naval warfare.

So lets say that by some miracle this force manages to land when and where it is supposed to with no problem. You still need to unload the soldiers, set up a forward operating base, send scouts and prepare a messaging system. Given the size of Dany's army this may take months before she starts marching. Then before she starts marching they need a plan of action, who will attack where and when. Then comes the issue of setting up supply lines. This will take more time.

Winter has arrived do you think people are just going to give over their winter supplies to an invading army, especially after the amount of wars that have been recently fought? Most likely not is the answer you are looking for. So dothraki being dothraki will just kill said peasant and take their shit. The Unsullied may not kill them, but just take their shit. A few incidents like this and you can pretty much give up on local support. This is without Dany's horde even meeting local resistance. 

Once the invasion is finally underway it will not be some surprise attack. The lords across Westeros will know they are there and that they have three dragons, and they will prepare as best as they can. So unless the "savior" plans to burn everything in her path her army will be doing a lot of sieges in an unfamiliar environment. Who are her military strategists? Tyrion, Grey Worm and the Khals? Tyrion has had limited success in military matters, Grey Worm and the Unsullied are infantry soldiers who can be killed with arrow barrages, the Khals and the dothraki are used to "fighting" people who will just pay them to go away. Will they have the foresight to leave elements behind in each region to insure stability? If they do they will not be able to be used for reinforcements since there will be local fighters using guerrilla tactics against the foreign invaders. It was also shown how ineffective the Unsullied were against such tactics. If they do not their supply lines will be disrupted by local resistance groups.

Now there is the technology gap. Westerosi cavalry uses armor and lances. Has has been stated many times before you cannot underestimate the importance of armor in combat. As was seen when Jorah fought that dothraki in season 1. Now the naysayers will be like "Well if he wasn't wearing armor he would of lost!" I am not going to dispute that. The fact is he was wearing armor and that dothraki got killed. Then the lances, it was not just a tourney weapon. This is what allowed cavalry to break through enemy lines. The dothraki are not equipped to fight armored cavalry units. They may inflict casualties due to numbers, but they will also suffer heavy casualties.

Now as they push further into their conquest two things become important. The weather and the terrain. Being how the bulk of Dany's forces are the dothraki both will become a severe handicap. The dothraki are plains people they raid and pillage along those plains where their horses have the greatest advantage. They do not know the land and have not had to adopt their strategies for who knows how many generations. Soon the dothraki element becomes a hindrance to the advance, and this doubles once they begin to feel the winter. They do not know the land and are unprepared for the winter and the supply lines are just too long and will become unmanageable.

The dragons..not sure how they will fare in the winter. Will they be sluggish or fully functional? It was written that they do not do well in the rain, so not sure how they will work in the cold. Als, these are not the dragons of Aegon the Conqueror. Those dragons were huge. When Arya was in Harrenhall talking to Tywin about the dragons Aegon only used his dragon on Harrenhall. It took all three of Dany's dragons to sink a ship with flammable material on it. The dragons will be a limited resource, and will fight when they feel like it. That and when they do their fire sweeps they are stuck in a straight line, or they hover. That means any decent ballista or scorpion crew can hit and damage them.

In my opinion it is not going to be Dany rolling over Westeros, she is going to suffer major losses in terms of soldiers, horses and local support. It will also be slow going. Yes she has Dorne and the Reach on her side, that is assuming all the houses pledged to those regions have pledged their support for a foreign invasion. That is the Southern part of the kingdom. There are still the Stormlands, Westerlands, Vale, Riverlands and the North if she can make it past the Neck. With all of this in mind I believe her army to be vastly overrated. Then again it depends on how it is written. I suppose her vast military will just run through everyone with no resistance because the writers want it that way. If she does just steam roll through, the writers are idiots and anyone who thinks that is how it would anyway even more so. 

 

 

 

I believe this reasoning is flawed in a few places.

1. Westeros is not that far from the bay of dragons. The narrow sea is like the english channel. It probably takes a few days to cross. So you can exclude , tensions, massive amount of food and water or sickness for this travel because the trip is too short for that. Im sure Dorne also knows about navel warefare also having a naval army and probably highgarden. 

The only thing I can think of is storms. If JRRM chooses to reflect on our own history, then Danys army is like the Spanish armada of 1588. It was a massive spanish armada that was sent to conquor Britain under Queen Elizabeth I. There was a massive storm and the armada was destroyed, saving britain from invasion that they would have most certainly lost if they had landed. And Britian would have become part of the Spanish empire. 

2. Im sure the logistics of setting up danys army were arranged before she set sail. At the last epside, it was implied that the alliance between Dany and dorne had been going for at least a few weeks. So Im sure they provided maps and arranged things in Dorne for her arrival.

3. The dothraki may not use armour but im sure Dorne and highgarden do. And highgarden has the largest army in westeros. Also highgarden was providing food and provisions for the lannisters army when Robb Stark was around. Im sure Dorne and Highgarden could provide supplies especially since Im sure highgarden will no longer provide those provisions for kings landing anymore. KL population will starve expecially now winter has come. 

 

It is more likely there will be little opposition to Dany until she reaches KL. But with the people starving and no troops since they were also provided by high garden, Cersai will likely use KL as a trojan horse. Have danys army invade it, then blow up the rest of the wild fire since it is really the only resource she has. It would decimate Danys army.

Edited by cylonhybrid

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On ‎10‎/‎17‎/‎2016 at 1:29 PM, cylonhybrid said:

I believe this reasoning is flawed in a few places.

1. Westeros is not that far from the bay of dragons. The narrow sea is like the english channel. It probably takes a few days to cross. So you can exclude , tensions, massive amount of food and water or sickness for this travel because the trip is too short for that. Im sure Dorne also knows about navel warefare also having a naval army and probably highgarden. 

The only thing I can think of is storms. If JRRM chooses to reflect on our own history, then Danys army is like the Spanish armada of 1588. It was a massive spanish armada that was sent to conquor Britain under Queen Elizabeth I. There was a massive storm and the armada was destroyed, saving britain from invasion that they would have most certainly lost if they had landed. And Britian would have become part of the Spanish empire. 

2. Im sure the logistics of setting up danys army were arranged before she set sail. At the last epside, it was implied that the alliance between Dany and dorne had been going for at least a few weeks. So Im sure they provided maps and arranged things in Dorne for her arrival.

3. The dothraki may not use armour but im sure Dorne and highgarden do. And highgarden has the largest army in westeros. Also highgarden was providing food and provisions for the lannisters army when Robb Stark was around. Im sure Dorne and Highgarden could provide supplies especially since Im sure highgarden will no longer provide those provisions for kings landing anymore. KL population will starve expecially now winter has come. 

 

It is more likely there will be little opposition to Dany until she reaches KL. But with the people starving and no troops since they were also provided by high garden, Cersai will likely use KL as a trojan horse. Have danys army invade it, then blow up the rest of the wild fire since it is really the only resource she has. It would decimate Danys army.

Are you suggesting that Dorne is their landing point? This makes no sense, if that is what your implying. Some of the others are excellent points, with the exception of the sea crossing being merely a few days travel. If this were the case, they would have never needed that many ships in the first place, as they could have just simply made several trips.

Edited by Ice Spider

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12 hours ago, Ice Spider said:

Are you suggesting that Dorne is their landing point? This makes no sense, if that is what your implying. Some of the others are excellent points, with the exception of the sea crossing being merely a few days travel. If this were the case, they would have never needed that many ships in the first place, as they could have just simply made several trips.

Look, Danys army is about 60,000 Dothraki if you only include the men and 8,000 unsullied that she must bring to Westeros. She is leaving the 2,000 second suns in the Bay of Dragons to look after things. Thats about 70,000 people. 

If every ship holds about 100 people which is what would be expected from ships that size, then even if the trip was 5 days travel lets say to get there. Each trip would be 5 days to Westeros and 5 days back. If she had 10 ships, she would need to make 70 trips about 2 years to get her army across. One year if she had 20 ships. 6 months if she had 40 ships, 3 months if she had 60 ships. 

So yes, she does need a lot of ships even if Westeros was only a few days away. 

Also I don;t know why you think Dorne doesn't make sense as a landing point. Its safe, they can provide provision and armaments, closest landing point on Weteros from the bay of dragons and optimal place ti unite with highgardens forces before they march on Kings landing.

Edited by cylonhybrid

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12 hours ago, cylonhybrid said:

Look, Danys army is about 60,000 Dothraki if you only include the men and 8,000 unsullied that she must bring to Westeros. She is leaving the 2,000 second suns in the Bay of Dragons to look after things. Thats about 70,000 people. 

If every ship holds about 100 people which is what would be expected from ships that size, then even if the trip was 5 days travel lets say to get there. Each trip would be 5 days to Westeros and 5 days back. If she had 10 ships, she would need to make 70 trips about 2 years to get her army across. One year if she had 20 ships. 6 months if she had 40 ships, 3 months if she had 60 ships. 

So yes, she does need a lot of ships even if Westeros was only a few days away. 

Also I don;t know why you think Dorne doesn't make sense as a landing point. Its safe, they can provide provision and armaments, closest landing point on Weteros from the bay of dragons and optimal place ti unite with highgardens forces before they march on Kings landing.

Your grossly underestimating the capacity of the ships. Slave ships routinely held 400-600 people for a much longer voyage. for a five day trip, they could easily carry 200-300 people. So, thirty three ships (1/3 of the 100 needed) ships could carry 9900 people. Toss in some trips for the horses and its 3 months tops.

Why would Dorne send ships to slavers bay, only to return back to Dorne?

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16 hours ago, Ice Spider said:

Your grossly underestimating the capacity of the ships. Slave ships routinely held 400-600 people for a much longer voyage. for a five day trip, they could easily carry 200-300 people. So, thirty three ships (1/3 of the 100 needed) ships could carry 9900 people. Toss in some trips for the horses and its 3 months tops.

Why would Dorne send ships to slavers bay, only to return back to Dorne?

Umm I don't know were you are getting 400-600 people from. The ships were only 100 foot max, which would be the size of a 15th century galleon. The didn't carry 600 people or more until they invented steam power. So even 100 people is pushing it. Nowhere near 400-600. 

Dorne sent ships to slavers bay to carry Danys army back to Dorne obviously. You only need a small crew to run a ship but it can hold a lot more. Why would you think Dorne would send its army to slavers bay and then come back to Westeros again then, instead of just meeting Danys fleet at Westeros?? I don't understand your reasoning?. Have you seem a map of the world in a song of ice and fire?

Edited by cylonhybrid

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Okay, I haven't read the entire thread yet but to me the obvious answer is Euron; from the Tyrion chapter in TWOW we know that  Victarion is aiding Dany in the hopes of gaining her hand (she will reject him I am pretty sure though), athough she is still missing in the books; her being stranded cannot last though, for one thing because I think once she is done attracting some Dothraki (although my bet is that is not going to be done in such a spectacular way as the show) she'll be back and I think at that stage it will go pretty much as in the show; Tyrion has already kind of made the Second Sons join her cause.  I also believe that Varys is stringing Illyrio along (and I go with Illyrio being Aegon's father) and will join with Dany (Varys).  The show certainly left Dany almost unopposed in that chaos Cersei created but Euron has been a character who was introduced late but has been building up.  From Aeron's chapter the guy is the biggest monster in the series possibly so far and by far and has "that horn."  As for Jon, I can definitely see them teaming up, hell even marrying for political reasons (they are literally fire and ice and he has both).  I know the show uses a lot of "poetic licence" but D&D, unlike us, know the ending of the books... okay they may mess around marrying Sansa to Ramsay say (which I hated as a plot, minus I guess her revenge lol) but that won't matter since he is dead and she is not with child by him but they cannot mess with something that is absolute end game.  Now Euron will not be endgame of course not, he will die (painfully I hope) but he is going to cause major shit.  An allegiance between him and Cersei in the show is likely; in the books I think he will try and use the horn but something tells me that may not go well for him and it may even be Victarion, if alive or Aeron, who finish him off, even Theon or Asha... lol I thought Ramsay and Joffrey were psychopaths but this guy takes the biscuit!  The Aeron chapter is very telling in my opinion.  Since birds of a feather tend to flock together I wouldn't put it past Martin to ally him with Cersei, for a brief time, but he is a hell of a lot worse than she is lol  To me that is the major danger we will see re Dany and her allies in book 6.  I believe however that we will have his death by the end of the book.

Although I cannot wait for Dany & Co to leave Mereen which I find at this point boring, I think the big battle (George said there would be two - that one and the one in the north) and Euron's threat to her will happen before she sets sail for Westeros at all - probably at the very end of the book with her victorious and with his fleet just before the last book which I believe it will certainly be a fight between the dead and the living with most Westeros politics forgotten for the time being due to sheer necessity, and lack of food lol.  Okay, the final book cannot be all a battle with WWs, or hope not since battles are not my thing if they take up all the pages.  There has to be enough personal story left but there are a lot of details yet to unfold such as Valonquar, various reunions - for good or evil - etc so I am pretty sure it's going to be awesome but back on topic, I would wager a lot of gold dragons to Euron being the main enemy to Dany in the next book.

 

Edited by Morgana Lannister

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Why would Cersei burn down KL with her inside of it before Dany arrives? I see no reason why she would. The Starks aren't going to be coming South in full force anytime soon and all the other houses that aren't with Cersei or Jon are behind Dany.

I have a feeling Dany and her army will be outside of KL when Cersei blows it up. Or Jaime will kill Cersei before she can, repeating what he did during RRs.

Edited by Adam_Up_Bxtch

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17 hours ago, Adam_Up_Bxtch said:

Why would Cersei burn down KL with her inside of it before Dany arrives? I see no reason why she would. The Starks aren't going to be coming South in full force anytime soon and all the other houses that aren't with Cersei or Jon are behind Dany.

I have a feeling Dany and her army will be outside of KL when Cersei blows it up. Or Jaime will kill Cersei before she can, repeating what he did during RRs.

She doesn't obviously, what people are proposing is that Cersai abandons KL and lets Dany invade it. Then when it too late and Danys forces occupy the city, Cersai finds a way to blow all the wildfire, killing thousands of Danys army. The only thing that won't be affected are Dany and her dragons which would be the vision Dany saw a few seasons back in the house of the undying and the dragon at KL.

Edited by cylonhybrid

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8 hours ago, cylonhybrid said:

She doesn't obviously, what people are proposing is that Cersai abandons KL and lets Dany invade it. Then when it too late and Danys forces occupy the city, Cersai finds a way to blow all the wildfire, killing thousands of Danys army. The only thing that won't be affected are Dany and her dragons which would be the vision Dany saw a few seasons back in the house of the undying and the dragon at KL.

I have a feeling Cersei is far too proud to give up the throne, plus she just indirectly sacrificed her last child for it, she'll die sitting on it like she was willing to back in Season 2.

Edited by Adam_Up_Bxtch

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Would be lame if Cersei blows up KL , she has used wildfire once using it again would be dumb and uncreative by D&D. 

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On ‎10‎/‎20‎/‎2016 at 5:35 PM, cylonhybrid said:

Umm I don't know were you are getting 400-600 people from. The ships were only 100 foot max, which would be the size of a 15th century galleon. The didn't carry 600 people or more until they invented steam power. So even 100 people is pushing it. Nowhere near 400-600. 

Dorne sent ships to slavers bay to carry Danys army back to Dorne obviously. You only need a small crew to run a ship but it can hold a lot more. Why would you think Dorne would send its army to slavers bay and then come back to Westeros again then, instead of just meeting Danys fleet at Westeros?? I don't understand your reasoning?. Have you seem a map of the world in a song of ice and fire?

http://z.about.com/d/africanhistory/1/0/1/J/SlaveShipBrookes002.jpg

 

This ship carried over 700 slaves, for a voyage 10x longer than the one your proposing. it is not a stretch to imagine a ship carrying 200-300 for a two-three day trip.

Dany asked Tyrion if the captured slavers ships would be enough to carry her Army. Tyrions answer was yes, but barely. The addition of the ships from the reach should have been more than enough.

Your original statement was two part, and you cannot separate them to try to make your argument. Given your original statement said that the trip was only a few days sail, it made no sense that the port of destination would be Dorne, Then it was terribly silly for the Dornish ships to sail to slavers bay, merely to turn around and sail back.

Now if the Journey is not 5 days. but two-three months, then that changes things immensely. You can no longer overcrowd the ships, and need 10X the supplies. Now, this makes sense, as the ships from Dorne and the Reach would be carrying said supplies.

Edited by Ice Spider

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8 hours ago, Ice Spider said:

http://z.about.com/d/africanhistory/1/0/1/J/SlaveShipBrookes002.jpg

 

This ship carried over 700 slaves, for a voyage 10x longer than the one your proposing. it is not a stretch to imagine a ship carrying 200-300 for a two-three day trip.

Dany asked Tyrion if the captured slavers ships would be enough to carry her Army. Tyrions answer was yes, but barely. The addition of the ships from the reach should have been more than enough.

Your original statement was two part, and you cannot separate them to try to make your argument. Given your original statement said that the trip was only a few days sail, it made no sense that the port of destination would be Dorne, Then it was terribly silly for the Dornish ships to sail to slavers bay, merely to turn around and sail back.

Now if the Journey is not 5 days. but two-three months, then that changes things immensely. You can no longer overcrowd the ships, and need 10X the supplies. Now, this makes sense, as the ships from Dorne and the Reach would be carrying said supplies.

First off, Dany could not use slaver ships as you suggest. Slaves were packed in like animals and many if not most died on these trips.I don't think you realise just how cramped they would be, there would be nowhere to sleep either. I doubt the army would follow her if she subjected them to those conditions, even at half capacity.

I can't even see the ship you are referring to with the link, its too blurry and doesn't give a name... 

The slavers of slavers bay came in warships, not slave ships because they were fighting against Dany. You don't take Mereen with slave ships that have no armaments. 

When was the scene with Tyrion? Was that before or after Tyrion was aware of the Dothraki?

Its quite sensible to sail from Dorne to Slavers bay to ensure her army doesn't delay. I don't know what you are not getting about the logistics of this?

Basically, its the equivalent of sailing from Italy to Britain on a modern map. It doesn't take 3 months to do that. That would be a trip from europe to the americas. So at most you are talking maybe a week or two. I don't know how fast these ships were. 

I don't particularly care about this to be honest. 

In the first episode of season 7, they will be at or near Dorne because Dany has a ground army not a navy.

They are also filming in Zumaia,Spain for season 7. And Spains locations have been for Dorne and Essos. So since the story is moving towards Dorne, Dany probably lands near Sunspear or somewhere else.

 

Edited by cylonhybrid

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First off, Dany could not use slaver ships as you suggest. Slaves were packed in like animals and many if not most died on these trips.I don't think you realise just how cramped they would be, there would be nowhere to sleep either. I doubt the army would follow her if she subjected them to those conditions, even at half capacity.

More utterly ridiculous hypothesis. What would be the point if "most" died? Not very profitable. You keep talking in circles and try to prove your point by disassociating your original argument. I will remind you once again that your argument was the trip from slavers bay to Dorne is merely 5 days. You don't die of pestilence, malnutrition, or disease in five days. What part of that don't you understand?  

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I can't even see the ship you are referring to with the link, its too blurry and doesn't give a name... 

Google is your friend.

 

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The slavers of slavers bay came in warships, not slave ships because they were fighting against Dany. You don't take Mereen with slave ships that have no armaments. 

Yeah, you got me there, it's ridiculous to think the Slaver's ships would even remotely resemble retrofitted Slave ships. Because, well, you know, the Slaver's are all about conquest, not the business of capturing and selling Slaves. They can engineer ship mounted trebuchet's (which would take a huge ship) a feat never really ever accomplished, yet they cannot engineer a ship large enough to carry over 100 passengers for a 5 day journey......

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Its quite sensible to sail from Dorne to Slavers bay to ensure her army doesn't delay. I don't know what you are not getting about the logistics of this?

The point is, it is utterly pointless to do so if the journey is only 5 days sail. If it is 2-3 months sail, then yes it would make sense. I don't have an issue with the fact the Dornish ships sailed to Slaver's bay, even if there just to return back to Dorne. The issue I have is why bother if it is only 5 days journey? It makes no sense at all, and if it was only 5 days trip, I am sure there would be a great deal of trade between the two, and Dany and her dragons would be a well known entity in Dorne, and all of Westeros for that matter. It would also have been a lot quicker for Tyrion and Varys to make their journey to Meerene than was depicted on the show. Oh, and there is the simple fact that Dragoon would have been routinely flying to westeros and back......

I

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n the first episode of season 7, they will be at or near Dorne because Dany has a ground army not a navy.

I highly doubt this. Care to make a wager? What is the point of Euron if we are not to see a sea battle?

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They are also filming in Zumaia,Spain for season 7. And Spains locations have been for Dorne and Essos. So since the story is moving towards Dorne, Dany probably lands near Sunspear or somewhere else.

Which proves what exactly? That some scenes will be filmed in Dorne? Shocker!

Edited by Ice Spider

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