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Is House Tarth a big enough house that can send a large amount of soldiers if called upon during times of war?

mystickristoff

By mystickristoff,
in General (ASoIaF)

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thelittledragonthatcould Council Member

thelittledragonthatcould

Posted
Posted
34 minutes ago, YOVMO said:

I do not think this is true. I think that they stayed neutral in the W5K

No, he definitely supported Renly. Not only does Renly mention them as one of his prominent supporters but GRRM also lists him as a supporter in the ACOK King of Highgarden appendix.

 

Quote

 

THE KING IN HIGHGARDEN

RENLY BARATHEON, the First of His Name, the younger of King Robert's brothers, formerly Lord of Storm's End, thirdborn son of Lord Steffon Baratheon and Lady Cassana of House Estermont,

  • his lords bannermen:

 

Now consider that the actual neutral Lord Swann nor Lord Royce are mentioned either by Renly or GRRM as supporters despite their sons also serving in Renly's Kingsguard.

34 minutes ago, YOVMO said:

 

and that Brienne left to support renly was a source of contention between her and Selwyn.

Except that it was Selwyn who sent Brienne to Renly in the first place.

"A lie," Ser Cortnay said. "I knew Brienne when she was no more than a girl playing at her father's feet in Evenfall Hall, and I knew her still better when the Evenstar sent her here to Storm's End. She loved Renly Baratheon from the first moment she laid eyes on him, a blind man could see it."

34 minutes ago, YOVMO said:

Selwyn refused Stannis (through Davos) and never joined forces with Renly.

Except he did. Why would Renly list his name as one of his main supporters if he was not there. Stannis would know straight away whether it was true or not.

 

 

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YOVMO Council Member

YOVMO

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5 minutes ago, HairGrowsBack said:

Well...secret in-universe, I mean, they don't seem to be particularly well-known for being fervently pro-Targ or anything. But then, House Tarth is shrouded in mystery..

indeed in universe.

House Tarth does have dunks shield in it's armory though and, if Dunk is Selwyn's grandfather I have a feeling someone would have mentioned it to him. Further, not declaring for either Baratheon's during the W5K seems suspicious since house tarth is a vassal of storms end.

The fact that they are not well-known for being fervently pro-targ can point to something or nothing.

 

If Dunk had an illegitimate child with either Rhae or Daella Targaryen which wound up being the father of Selwyn being off the targ radar might be a good thing. The reader knows that Brienne is a Dunk descendant but that is an issue that comes with a lot of very complicated things.

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YOVMO Council Member

YOVMO

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2 minutes ago, thelittledragonthatcould said:

No, he definitely supported Renly. Not only does Renly mention them as one of his prominent supporters but GRRM also lists him as a supporter in the ACOK King of Highgarden appendix.

As a sworn bannerman to Storm's End indeed Selwyn would be listed in the appendix as being sword to Renly. The appendix, often times, does not convey the truth of the matter. As for Renly boasting about his support to stannis, to me that is neither here nor there. Where are these archers of tarth? Do we see one knight of tarth with Renly or just bluster?

2 minutes ago, thelittledragonthatcould said:

 

Now consider that the actual neutral Lord Swann nor Lord Royce are mentioned either by Renly or GRRM as supporters despite their sons also serving in Renly's Kingsguard.

Except that it was Selwyn who sent Brienne to Renly in the first place.

"A lie," Ser Cortnay said. "I knew Brienne when she was no more than a girl playing at her father's feet in Evenfall Hall, and I knew her still better when the Evenstar sent her here to Storm's End. She loved Renly Baratheon from the first moment she laid eyes on him, a blind man could see it."

 

Yes, Selwyn sent Brienne to Storm's end as a child. That would have been natural. He not only did not send her to him when he donned a crown and declared himself King of the 7K, I seem to recall that it was a particular point of contention, that Brienne left to follow renly against her fathers will. I will try to find reference.

2 minutes ago, thelittledragonthatcould said:

 

 

Except he did. Why would Renly list his name as one of his main supporters if he was not there. Stannis would know straight away whether it was true or not.

 

 

Renly is more flash than substance. He doesn't seem the type to let truth get in the way of a good speech...especially if he is dissing Stannis. The fact remains that there are no soldiers, archers or knights from Tarth that we see with Renly other than Brienne and, while Brienne might have been an outcast you would think that if there was even a single man at arms he would have been trying to protect Brienne...his lords eldest daughter.

I just see Renly eating a peach and talking pretty big, but no one from Tarth.

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thelittledragonthatcould Council Member

thelittledragonthatcould

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1 minute ago, YOVMO said:

As a sworn bannerman to Storm's End indeed Selwyn would be listed in the appendix as being sword to Renly.

No he wouldnt. Read what I quoted, it is not the Lord of Storm's End bannermen but the bannermen of the King of Highgarden.
Notice how Lord Swann is not listed as a bannerman?

1 minute ago, YOVMO said:

 

The appendix, often times, does not convey the truth of the matter. As for Renly boasting about his support to stannis, to me that is neither here nor there. Where are these archers of tarth? Do we see one knight of tarth with Renly or just bluster?

You are being a little pedantic. We don't see any Dustins or Ryswells with Robb yet we know they were part of his army and we don't see any Hightowers with the Tyrells yet we know they were part of the army.

We have both a quote in the books and the author himself listing his support. I see no reason why both GRRM and Renly would lie about this. It serves absolutely no purpose.

1 minute ago, YOVMO said:

Yes, Selwyn sent Brienne to Storm's end as a child. That would have been natural.

No he sent her as an adult. She was A child when Renly visited them on Tarth.

1 minute ago, YOVMO said:

 

He not only did not send her to him when he donned a crown and declared himself King of the 7K, I seem to recall that it was a particular point of contention, that Brienne left to follow renly against her fathers will. I will try to find reference.

Please do.

1 minute ago, YOVMO said:

Renly is more flash than substance. He doesn't seem the type to let truth get in the way of a good speech...especially if he is dissing Stannis.

The prove it. Here is the quote

"Tyrell swords will make me king. Rowan and Tarly and Caron will make me king, with axe and mace and warhammer. Tarth arrows and Penrose lances, Fossoway, Cuy, Mullendore, Estermont, Selmy, Hightower, Oakheart, Crane, Caswell, Blackbar, Morrigen, Beesbury, Shermer, Dunn, Footly . . . even House Florent, your own wife's brothers and uncles, they will make me king."

Those are his supporters, find one that Renly has made up.

As I said before he makes no mention of the Swanns or Royces despite having both those members serve in his Kingsguard nor does he list the Redwynes who we know at that point are remaining neutral due to the twins being held hostage at Kings Landing.

Not only does it seem unlikely that both GRRM and Renly would lie about this but why would Renly list them so prominently. It is not like they are a major House.

1 minute ago, YOVMO said:

 

The fact remains that there are no soldiers, archers or knights from Tarth that we see with Renly

That is not a fact. There are under 100k soldiers with Renly. Until we have all their names then no, what you said is not a fact.

 

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thelittledragonthatcould Council Member

thelittledragonthatcould

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16 minutes ago, Señor de la Tormenta said:

House tarth has sworn knights and some calvary who should had been in renlys camp. Why none of this intervened to stop the "bang brianne game" or atleast warn her? Its their duty to their overlord.

Probably because they were not there.

Who exactly are they going to go to? Dickon overhears and is able to go to his father who is senior enough to put a stop to it.

And do you think they would be saying that shit around men sworn to her father? I'm sure some of Tywin's men at one point talked disrespectfully about a young Cersei, they are not going to do it around anyone who will react to it.

And once again, where is the evidence that both Renly and GRRM lied?

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Señor de la Tormenta Council Member

Señor de la Tormenta

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1 minute ago, thelittledragonthatcould said:

Who exactly are they going to go to? Dickon overhears and is able to go to his father who is senior enough to put a stop to it.

And do you think they would be saying that shit around men sworn to her father? I'm sure some of Tywin's men at one point talked disrespectfully about a young Cersei, they are not going to do it around anyone who will react to it.

And once again, where is the evidence that both Renly and GRRM lied?

Renly might have bluffed as he does about many things, many many times.

 

Is there a quote by Martin?

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thelittledragonthatcould Council Member

thelittledragonthatcould

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3 minutes ago, Señor de la Tormenta said:

Renly might have bluffed as he does about many things, many many times.

Here is the quote. Please tell me which Houses he is bluffing about? And why mention the Tarths so prominently if he was bluffing about them?

"Tyrell swords will make me king. Rowan and Tarly and Caron will make me king, with axe and mace and warhammer. Tarth arrows and Penrose lances, Fossoway, Cuy, Mullendore, Estermont, Selmy, Hightower, Oakheart, Crane, Caswell, Blackbar, Morrigen, Beesbury, Shermer, Dunn, Footly . . . even House Florent, your own wife's brothers and uncles, they will make me king."

3 minutes ago, Señor de la Tormenta said:

 

Is there a quote by Martin?

Read the thread. GRRM lists the Lords supporting the King of Highgarden in ACOK.

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