Westeros's answer to Dany's dragons (Possible Spoilers)

[The Lash]

Poison and Ballistae. (Maybe Scorpions, whichever fires the big iron or steel bolts)

A lot of people on the forum are under the impression that Dany is unstoppable.  I am throwing the BS flag on this.  There is an answer to every problem, you just have find the solution.  I have posted my thoughts and ideas on other threads about her army, its makeup, and how to deal with them.  But one guy said the only thing Westeros does not have an answer for is her dragons (Sorry to not give you credit, you deserve it, by far, but my mobile kind of sucks right now). That got me to think pretty hard about this, there has to be a solution, and the dragons have to be vulnerable to something.

I remember the shot of Drogon roaring.  You can clearly see the two circular glands on either side of the mouth (which they straight out stole from Reign of Fire), that i will assume mix two different chemicals to produce dragon fire.  This just screams of true biological process.  Which means, they are not comprised of magic, but are vulnerable just like any living entity ever.

I would start making the ballistae and scorpions immediately. I would have every available maester acquire or make all the quick acting poisons that are easiest to produce in adequate quantities, reguardless if they are deadly or not.  As long as they have the capacity to seriously impair a dragon, (even theoretically).You send the poison with your armies and to key strategic locations to coat bolts, arrows, and spears for battle. 

From the shot of Drogon and the other dragons burning the ships, I am going to say the max range they can spit fire is at most 75 yards.  A distance that can be easily matched or even doubled by the ranged weapons of the time.

I am in no way saying that Westeros should concentrate on Dany and not the WW invasion, we all want the WW to go down amd have the heros be heros, the good die young and blah blah blah blah .....you get the picture.

I am just tired of people thinking there is no answer to this.   And am playing Devil's Advocate.For now, the best real time solution is something like this.  Westeros will not be a cakewalk for Dany, nor should it be.  

Let me have it folks.

[GeorgeIAF]

11 hours ago, The Lash said:

Poison and Ballistae. (Maybe Scorpions, whichever fires the big iron or steel bolts)

A lot of people on the forum are under the impression that Dany is unstoppable.  I am throwing the BS flag on this.  There is an answer to every problem, you just have find the solution.  I have posted my thoughts and ideas on other threads about her army, its makeup, and how to deal with them.  But one guy said the only thing Westeros does not have an answer for is her dragons (Sorry to not give you credit, you deserve it, by far, but my mobile kind of sucks right now). That got me to think pretty hard about this, there has to be a solution, and the dragons have to be vulnerable to something.

I remember the shot of Drogon roaring.  You can clearly see the two circular glands on either side of the mouth (which they straight out stole from Reign of Fire), that i will assume mix two different chemicals to produce dragon fire.  This just screams of true biological process.  Which means, they are not comprised of magic, but are vulnerable just like any living entity ever.

I would start making the ballistae and scorpions immediately. I would have every available maester acquire or make all the quick acting poisons that are easiest to produce in adequate quantities, reguardless if they are deadly or not.  As long as they have the capacity to seriously impair a dragon, (even theoretically).You send the poison with your armies and to key strategic locations to coat bolts, arrows, and spears for battle. 

From the shot of Drogon and the other dragons burning the ships, I am going to say the max range they can spit fire is at most 75 yards.  A distance that can be easily matched or even doubled by the ranged weapons of the time.

I am in no way saying that Westeros should concentrate on Dany and not the WW invasion, we all want the WW to go down amd have the heros be heros, the good die young and blah blah blah blah .....you get the picture.

I am just tired of people thinking there is no answer to this.   And am playing Devil's Advocate.For now, the best real time solution is something like this.  Westeros will not be a cakewalk for Dany, nor should it be.  

Let me have it folks.

What if the NK has something like arrows of ice which will turn them into WW ? Or something close to that.

[bb1180]

I don't disagree with you at all,  but I also think its why the show needs to kill off one of the dragons.  We need to see that they're vulnerable and, by extension,  so is Dany.   Otherwise, you're right, the impression that Dany is playing the Game of Thrones on easy mode will continue to grow.    

[ErasmusF]

I think there is a lot of foreshadowing in The Princess and the Queen. Cersei is pretty much playing out Rhaenyra's role - she thought she would be queen but now she's just grasping. 

I don't know that the other dragons will ever get riders. They might just wander off, or have ill-fated riders who use them for the wrong reasons. Three dragons are just too powerful for Westeros in the state it's in and it will kill the storyline. 

I expect season 7 will be about the battle with the White Walkers and season 8 will be about tying up all of the stories in a not very satisfying way, and seating someone on the Iron Throne.  I expect Dany will survive, and maybe even be on the Iron Throne. But she will rule over a Westeros that is decimated by war and a shell of what it once was. Her dragons will be gone. Jon will survive as well, but I see him taking off for Essos. He will be recognized as king, but see the foolishness in ruling a broken empire. Dany will take the throne out of sheer impetus rather than any sense of mission. 

[IrisBest]

Well we already know that people in the Seven Kingdoms can and have found ways to take down dragons in history. There are various weapons that can work especially if the rider isn't careful. I kept thinking in this last episode that Dany shouldn't make a habit of flying too close to ships and just sitting there in place to burn them because there's examples of other dragons getting taken down by grapnels, spears, ballistae, etc. Even a lucky crossbow bolt to the eye could be fatal. She needs to practice more aerial maneuvers lol. 

[TickTak7]

Having the weapons and means to defeat dragons is one thing. 

Having men and soldiers actually willing and able to fight dragons is an entirely different thing. 

They've done a good job of slowly scaling Drogon up in size every time we see him - he's massive now, and will only get bigger. 

That's some proper intimidation tactics, and I doubt there are any real armies that would wilfully want to go up against her and her dragons. 

Which is why I always felt as though Dany's story lended itself better to the North storyline, fighting the White Walkers. Ice and Fire, Dragons vs Magic, etc. just seems to fit better

[bfin]

They killed off all the dragons before and some were way bigger than Drogon. I feel like the armies won't just cower away if you attack their homeland. They will be fighting for something like Jon's army was. 

Off topic but once the dust settles most of Westeros will be in shambles after The Long Night. Will Dany's endgame be ruling Westeros and Essos as 1 kingdom?

[Survivor92]

11 minutes ago, TickTak7 said:

Having the weapons and means to defeat dragons is one thing. 

Having men and soldiers actually willing and able to fight dragons is an entirely different thing. 

They've done a good job of slowly scaling Drogon up in size every time we see him - he's massive now, and will only get bigger. 

That's some proper intimidation tactics, and I doubt there are any real armies that would wilfully want to go up against her and her dragons. 

Which is why I always felt as though Dany's story lended itself better to the North storyline, fighting the White Walkers. Ice and Fire, Dragons vs Magic, etc. just seems to fit better

Yeah, this. I think she will lose many Dothraki at sea (either due to the Ironborn or a storm). The Dothraki and Westeros don't go well together and it'll also serve to make Daenerys feel less powerful and lucky.

Then have her land in Westeros with just her dragons and some small remains of her army. She'll go to King's Landing but find it in ruins (due to Cersei's wildfire) with snow covering the Iron Throne.

Then she'll decide to battle the WW, which will cost the lives of her dragons (maybe they'll battle ice dragons?) and, I think, ultimately Daenerys herself too. She will die but go down in history as the person who protected Westeros when they needed it most. Daenerys the Protector, instead of the Conqueror.

[Cragen]

Catch is, they need to kill dragons before battle start. If dragon start burning army, there is mess, fear and confusion, soldier would start running, I can not see someone staying there and wait for dragon to come in range when 1000 people burning around and other running from fire. Only crazy enough for doing so are Faith Militant, but I think they will be take care of by Cersie. Reason why I think Daenerys is made to look like unstoppable conqueror is because she will have nothing to conquer, she will need to rebuild 7 Kingdoms and that is more difficult for her.

[Masha]

38 minutes ago, bfin said:

They killed off ALL the dragons before and some were way bigger than Drogon. I feel like the armies won't just cower away if you attack their homeland. They will be fighting for something like Jon's army was. 

Off topic but once the dust settles most of Westeros will be in shambles after The Long Night. Will Dany's endgame be ruling Westeros and Essos as 1 kingdom?

Thats a LOT of overestimation of dragons killed by regular people. Only few dragons were killed by people. They were:

1) Rhaenys' dragon that was killed by scorpions in Dorne. Rhaenys literally hovered over the Dornish castle presenting a still target as Dornish defenders used catapults and scorpions to blanket the sky above with missiles. Even then, the death was still described as sheer luck throw.

2) And several dragons were killed in riot at the end of Dance in KL.  TWOIAF describes that Dozens of men died for EACH dragon killed and men had all the odds in their favor. Surprise: the attack started when dragons were asleep. Circumstances: The dragons were also chained heavily and locked in their cannels/cages with iron bars. The crowd meant that the dragons were also stuck on the ground and couldn't take off

Most other dragons either died of old age, were killed by battle with other dragons, were poisoned by maesters/born deformed, flew away to badlands and were never saw of again.

 

Then you have Aegon's success in the conquering Westeros - Armies on field were simply burned whole, same for castles (aka Harrenhal)

So no, Westerosi didn't kill off ALL the dragons before.

[JamesD2020]

I don't think the dragons need riders as what was shown in Episdoe 9.  Dany's drogon is the alpha male capable of controlling the pack to do what she wants done.  So in essence she is the only one able to control them.

 

 

[Rory Snow]

Obviously the Dragons are impervious to normal fire, but what about wild fire? It's far hotter than normal, a chemical bomb really, is it possible that would have any effect? I'm guessing somewhere throughout time somebody must have tried. Of course hitting the dragon with it would be another problem entirely. Might be close to impossible in a battle situation, but what if one were on the ground when Cersei ignites King's Landing?

[The Lash]

24 minutes ago, Cragen said:

Catch is, they need to kill dragons before battle start. If dragon start burning army, there is mess, fear and confusion, soldier would start running, I can not see someone staying there and wait for dragon to come in range when 1000 people burning around and other running from fire. Only crazy enough for doing so are Faith Militant, but I think they will be take care of by Cersie. Reason why I think Daenerys is made to look like unstoppable conqueror is because she will have nothing to conquer, she will need to rebuild 7 Kingdoms and that is more difficult for her.

I agree, this is a major problem.  But with guile, some devious planning, it would be possible to stick some bolts in a dragon.  Does anyone remember if the underside of them look more vulnerable than the back (I don't have access to resource materials right now)? The wings are thin, that seems plausible.  A few coated bolts through the wings could do the job possibly.

[Lord Friendzone]

Weirwood arrows?

[bfin]

28 minutes ago, Masha said:

Thats a LOT of overestimation of dragons killed by regular people. Only few dragons were killed by people. They were:

1) Rhaenys' dragon that was killed by scorpions in Dorne. Rhaenys literally hovered over the Dornish castle presenting a still target as Dornish defenders used catapults and scorpions to blanket the sky above with missiles. Even then, the death was still described as sheer luck throw.

2) And several dragons were killed in riot at the end of Dance in KL.  TWOIAF describes that Dozens of men died for EACH dragon killed and men had all the odds in their favor. Surprise: the attack started when dragons were asleep. Circumstances: The dragons were also chained heavily and locked in their cannels/cages with iron bars. The crowd meant that the dragons were also stuck on the ground and couldn't take off

Most other dragons either died of old age, were killed by battle with other dragons, were poisoned by maesters/born deformed, flew away to badlands and were never saw of again.

 

Then you have Aegon's success in the conquering Westeros - Armies on field were simply burned whole, same for castles (aka Harrenhal)

So no, Westerosi didn't kill off ALL the dragons before.

Dozens of men? Then that seems pretty easy all things considered. 3 dragons and the losses would be dozens? Let's go with 3 dozen to kill Drogon, and a dozen apiece for the other two. That's 60 dudes. Boom. 

[Rory Snow]

10 minutes ago, The Lash said:

The wings are thin, that seems plausible.  A few coated bolts through the wings could do the job possibly.

One of the properties of wildfire is that it sticks to things, perhaps if wildfire got on the wings it might burn thru the relatively thin membrane. Didn't we already see the wings get cut somewhat easily when Drogon saved Dany in the fighting pits?

[KINGpanther]

What people don't see is Dany's army and dragons have never seen snow nor fought in winter climates so by the time she reaches a Long night 2.0 hit Westeros she will loose most of her army and a dragon or 2 either through death or desertion.

[dbunting]

8 minutes ago, bfin said:

Dozens of men? Then that seems pretty easy all things considered. 3 dragons and the losses would be dozens? Let's go with 3 dozen to kill Drogon, and a dozen apiece for the other two. That's 60 dudes. Boom. 

So basically you ignore the 95% of the post and only comment on 5%? The dragons were chained down in a cell and asleep. Pretty important facts.

[The Lash]

9 minutes ago, Rory Snow said:

One of the properties of wildfire is that it sticks to things, perhaps if wildfire got on the wings it might burn thru the relatively thin membrane. Didn't we already see the wings get cut somewhat easily when Drogon saved Dany in the fighting pits?

 

6 minutes ago, KINGpanther said:

What people don't see is Dany's army and dragons have never seen snow nor fought in winter climates so by the time she reaches a Long night 2.0 hit Westeros she will loose most of her army and a dragon or 2 either through death or desertion.

People thinking outside of the box.  Good deal.

[The Lash]

I have also suggested in another thread, to poison their feed animals.  Give them enough poison to have it in teir system but not kill them.  So over multiple feedings it might make the dragons ill.  Maybe by letting a herd be 'captured.'  Or try to plant someone on the inside to accomplish this.  And if they get the shot to give a large, potentially fatal dose, take it.

Maybe also booby trap any structures in the major holds that could house dragons in the eventuality of one being taken.  That would vary by the structure and whatis feasible with it.