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Infidelity


Mlle. Zabzie

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35 minutes ago, Mlle. Zabzie said:

Thanks all. This is all really good advice from a lot of different perspectives.  The biggest thing I'm trying to remind myself of is that none of this has a quick easy answer, as much as I might want one, so against every bone in my body, I need to embrace the process (I HATE process) and see where it goes.

I think that's a good plan.  Best to you.  

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Zabs, I was thinking about this this morning and wanted to add one more thing I've noticed, having two less than ideal marriages that I attempted to reconcile:  I found that everything after the reconciliation was looked at with a jaundiced eye. "Was that a slight?" "Was that deliberate?" "What is he/she up to now?"  Even though there were still a lot of good times, the bad times were always worse than they should have been (or would have been before the issues had started.)  Motives were questioned for everything, good and bad. 

I don't want to discourage you or anything, but thought you might want to know some of the emotional difficulties we had after reconciling. 

 

:grouphug:

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41 minutes ago, 3StadtMueller said:

I've been in a similar situation few years ago. Long story short, my wife had a sexting affair (that's what she claims it was at least) with our neighbour. She dissmided it as "nothing serious whatsoever", but it wasn't nothing for me. But I admit I never even seriously considered ending our marriage, partly because of the kids, partly because I was hoping rebuilding of trust is possible if we both try hard enough. In my case it wasn't possible, not entirely. We do live together, but ever since I often ask myself if she's being honest with me. We both still love each other, that's at least clear for me. But trust is a different matter. There's no doubt our relationship worsened since it happened, but as it wasn't excellent even before that, I can't be sure it wouldn't worsen without it as well. But we still try to make it better. Sorry, I know it's not helpful, just wanted to spit it out and the opportunity arrived.

Actually, it's completely helpful.  Thanks for sharing and :grouphug:.  Are you all in couples therapy?  I am (and always have been) a huge fan of therapy and it helps.  Feel free to PM if you want to vent :)

31 minutes ago, Lany Freelove Cassandra said:

Zabs, I was thinking about this this morning and wanted to add one more thing I've noticed, having two less than ideal marriages that I attempted to reconcile:  I found that everything after the reconciliation was looked at with a jaundiced eye. "Was that a slight?" "Was that deliberate?" "What is he/she up to now?"  Even though there were still a lot of good times, the bad times were always worse than they should have been (or would have been before the issues had started.)  Motives were questioned for everything, good and bad. 

I don't want to discourage you or anything, but thought you might want to know some of the emotional difficulties we had after reconciling. 

 

:grouphug:

Thanks.  I really appreciate the perspective.  I think that will be true.

5 minutes ago, KiDisaster said:

Nothing more to add as I've been through nothing approaching this level of crappiness. Just wanted to say I'm sorry and I'm rooting for you whatever you decide. 

:grouphug:

Thank you!  

This Board is one of my favorite places in the world.  

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I'm sorry Zabs to hear you're going through all of this.  Retain sanity as far as possible.  That's an earthquake in your life but you'll come through it. 

There's already great advice in this thread.  I've never had an infidelity experience in a serious relationship, but I'm still only on my first of those.  I do think as I got older, and kids became a factor, and having built our lives together and around one another, that it seems like sexual infidelity would be less of a deal-breaker to me now.  It seems like the bigger problem might be alcohol abuse, underlying problems and the negative manifestations without regard for you or your family.  That seems like a very broken and selfish quality in a life partner.  And yet substance abuse is rarely intended to be hurtful (which is little comfort for all the unintended hurt), and lots of people recover and rebuild.  What do I know?  

I hope the therapy and counseling helps you both.  Best wishes for whichever path you take.  

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15 hours ago, Mlle. Zabzie said:

Here's my question.  It isn't should I stay or go - I don't know the answer to that.  Like I said, 3/5 of the time I think that it's over (that was always in my head my deal breaker, and I never understood why people would stay together - I get it a bit more now).  But for the 2/5 of the time, I wondered your thoughts - is it ever possible to rebuild trust after an infidelity in a non-open relationship?  Any experiences of it working out?  Any of it flaming out spectacularly?  Any people who were the unfaithful person want to chime in on their thoughts?  Thanks.

Sorry to hear you're going through this crappyness.

To answer your question directly: Yes I know of one couple where the wife was unfaithful (before kids), they separated for a time but then stayed married, had 3 awesome kids, unfortunately one died of meningitis at 10. They have stayed together for I think it must be coming up to 40 years now, at least 35. There was no addiction involved.

Next, the infidelity should probably be seen as a symptom of the addiction. I would give a pretty decent probability that if he remains in recovery he will never cheat again, never want to never even consider it and he will be eternally ashamed at having done what he did. The big question is will he remain in recovery? With an ongoing unaddressed addiction I say get out and get your kids out ASAP. But if he is getting into recovery and he stays there then I think you should make every effort to push through this. As you say, you really like him when he's sober. If you want to really try you should do some things to support him in his recovery, like make your home a dry house, no booze in the house ever. If you want to drink then you go out with friends, never bring it back to the house, and always come back home close to sober. Try to forgive him, even if you end up splitting up, he's always going to be the father of your kids so it's in their interests that he gets in recovery permanently, and you forgiving him and not holding his behavior against him while he was suffering the addiction will help him stay in recovery. Addiction is a mental illness requiring treatment, not simply bad behavior requiring punishment. But you need to also look out for your and your kids interests, so always be vigilant. Realise the backsliding is often part of the recovery process, but what's important is to be able to assess whether there is real commitment to recovery, or if the commitment is disappearing which would mean time to start looking for the exit.

Try out a support group for family of addicts, like Alanon. It might not be your thing, but you won't know unless you try. You will get to talk to people who have gone through a similar experience and who will be able to completely relate to what's been happening with you, probably everything that's happened with you will have happened with one or more person in the support group.

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MZ, sorry to hear what you're going through.  Lots of good info has already been provided by others... just here to let you know I've gone through similar and lived to tell the tale.  My ex-wife was unfaithful, and like most I discovered it the hard way.  Our sons were 2 and 4 at the time.  One of the most difficult and devastating things I've gone through... but now 3 years later I think it worked out for the best.  We're still amiable and mostly good co-parents, the kids are happy and well-adjusted from what I observe, and I'm much happier now than I was when the marriage soured.... ymmv

Whatever happens, I wish for the best outcome for you and children!

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I just came to the Board to see the Brexit discussion and saw this, to my pained horror.

You are very near to the situation my mom was in, but in the future edition as times have changed.  My dad really loved my mom when they first married, more than she loved him, her head told her to marry him more than her heart.  And then she got pregnant, so....  It was after WW II, of course, and he had been a soldier, which essentially means he drank.  A lot.  He was also very kind and sweet and gentlemanly and women were strongly attracted to him, and if a woman wanted to sit on his lap at a party and maybe give him a few kisses, he didn't mind at all.  No sexting back then, but in the 50s and 60s people seemed to have a lot more parties, mainly, I think, because there wasn't anything else to do but be social.  With three little children, it was hard to cope with for her, and she suffered from depression.  And, we did not have any money when we were young, but my dad was a soft touch for a sob story and if a woman told my dad about what a bum she had as a husband and the children had no milk to drink, he always handed out a ten or a twenty (a lot of money when minimum wage was 60 or 70 cents).  One of the pretty young ladies with babies and a shitty husband was our next door neighbour.  Years later my mom told me she always thought she would leave him once we were a little older.

Instead she pulled herself out of it by deciding to enter the workplace.  She went to classes and perfected her English so well many people could not detect an accent, and got out of the house by becoming a real estate agent.  My dad still drank, still appreciated the ladies, but he loved her and heaven's above, he loved us dearly.  They fought over his drinking, and though he would be contrite, drinking was not something he could give up.  My mom had decided she couldn't leave, because of the children.  But my mom and dad worked with each other to achieve their goals, and once she had us she realized she loved him deeply too.

Ups and downs continued for many years, but they essentially had a happy marriage.  Except for the drinking, which lasted until then end.

And we could see that our parents fought, and we could see that my dad drank too much, and we could see at parties the ladies liked my dad.  Ladies liked my dad even when he was 80, not in the old sit-on-his-lap sense, but for the fact he was a charming, sweet gentleman.  My mom told me she never knew if he had ever cheated on her.  He had had a close girlfriend back home before the war who wrote to him after the war, and it hurt her a bit that he had a place, even if a small one, in his heart for her.  However, the social group my parents hung out with was small and everyone knew everyone's business.  We heard who cheated on whom, and no one ever threw a story about my dad in my mom's face.  It was the kind of group where I'm sure someone would have told my mom, 'because you need to know'. 

But all these things are part of the fabric of life, I think.  Some lives have more of these flaws in the fabric than others.  And what Kal said is so very sensible and true.  I guess I don't have any actual advice, I just wanted to say it's possible to recover to a loving place.  Maybe not perfection, but I don't think life is perfect.

Lots of love, Zabs.  <3 <3 <3

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wife 1.0 was most certainly cheating on me at the end of our marriage. there were a lot of indicators. for a long time i denied it as it made me feel shit. we tried to work on things. there was always a nagging feeling that I would never ever trust her again so for me it was best when it ultimately failed.

my heart goes out to you. and I wish you the best. figuring it all out takes time. 

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It breaks my heart hearing this, Z. I think you're doing the right things and add my small voice to the chorus. Stay strong and see the process through, regardless of the outcome. Trust can be rebuilt, though it takes a long time and the other party has to be doubly committed too, as one sidestep that was within the margin of error before will now break any rebuilt trust. 

 :grouphug: And prayers.

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Zabz, I am terribly sorry.

First, this is probably not helpful, but if you got a name, I can find her.

My ex cheated on me while I was out of town visiting a graduate school  He told me at the last minute that he had to work.  I ended up driving my 25 year old Honda 479 miles to stay with his best friend with my 6 year old.  I was terrified the car would break.  I didn't know the people I was staying with.  It really sucked.  I found out as soon as I got back.  To make matters worse, he took her on a fucking DATE to a music festival.  He hates music festivals and would never go with me.  I think I would have been less heartbroken if he had just fucked her in our bed while I was gone.

I found out later that he had an affair with her all summer.  After he moved out, after I moved and while we were trying to work things out.

I wound up taking him back.  Afterwards, he was faithful, but he turned into a jealous control freak.  THAT ended our relationship.  He couldn't get over his own infidelity and judged me by his own shitty behavior.

I DID end up completely getting over the breach of trust and my heartbreak.  It can happen.

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Zabzie, I'm sorry you're going through this. I have nothing to add to of the thoughtful responses on this. My first marriage didn't end due to infidelity but I found myself waking up each morning wondering if I was able to be happy with what I had. One morning I realized I wasn't and that was that. Ultimately I was the breaker of trust in that I wanted out and didn't want counselling. Marriage vows burnt all down. We managed to rebuild a friendship (we were also coworkers through it all) and have maintained it, though to a much lesser degree since the arrival of MC in my life. But if he needed something or vice versa we'd be there for each other. 

 If you need to talk or vent or whatever, I'm here. 

 

 

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I'm sorry to hear it Zabz! I have no real advice other than I've had friends in relationships on both ends of this equation in various degrees and some seem to be able to work things out and some not. I don't think there is a universal answer here, but definitely trust the process and yourself to find the right way for you.

 

I wish I had something more to offer. :grouphug:

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6 hours ago, Mlle. Zabzie said:

Thanks all. This is all really good advice from a lot of different perspectives.  The biggest thing I'm trying to remind myself of is that none of this has a quick easy answer, as much as I might want one, so against every bone in my body, I need to embrace the process (I HATE process) and see where it goes.

I think you're going to find out that you are the process, ultimately. All of the rest is really just window dressing at the end of the day.

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1 hour ago, Lily Valley said:

Zabz, I am terribly sorry.

First, this is probably not helpful, but if you got a name, I can find her.

My ex cheated on me while I was out of town visiting a graduate school  He told me at the last minute that he had to work.  I ended up driving my 25 year old Honda 479 miles to stay with his best friend with my 6 year old.  I was terrified the car would break.  I didn't know the people I was staying with.  It really sucked.  I found out as soon as I got back.  To make matters worse, he took her on a fucking DATE to a music festival.  He hates music festivals and would never go with me.  I think I would have been less heartbroken if he had just fucked her in our bed while I was gone.

I found out later that he had an affair with her all summer.  After he moved out, after I moved and while we were trying to work things out.

I wound up taking him back.  Afterwards, he was faithful, but he turned into a jealous control freak.  THAT ended our relationship.  He couldn't get over his own infidelity and judged me by his own shitty behavior.

I DID end up completely getting over the breach of trust and my heartbreak.  It can happen.

Lily.  I do have a name (and a phone number - I actually have all the phone bills).  He claims he didn't tell her that he was married and actually took off his ring the couple of times he saw her (he was in NoLA twice - once for a case, when he met her, and a second time two weeks later for a conference).  So, I don't really blame her at all.  She is persistent, for sure.  She has continued to text even though he told her once that he was breaking it off and has been deleting the texts thereafter (and reporting as spam - he shows me and I watch him do it).  But at the end of the day, it's my husband's fault, pure and simple.  He could have stopped at any time, and he just . . . didn't.  (He said funny things to me, especially at the beginning, including "I was trying to stop".  He knows better now, and being 25 days sober helps).

Thanks to all others for the support and the offers to vent.  I will probably take you up on it.  

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Ugh Zabz.  

Well, it's pretty clear she's just working.  I know that totally doesn't make it any better.  What a colossally idiotic thing for him to do.

 If you want to PM me to yell, scream or vent all the hate you won't say to his face, feel free.  I was VERY lucky I had friends who were willing to support me and who also understood why I would take him back afterwards.  Whatever you wind up deciding, we're all here.

I do think it is possible to move on.  Even though he lied to me about things being over and even though they weren't actually over until the woman left town, we still patched things up for 5 more years.  They were mostly good years.  I can honestly say that 18 months down the road I was over it.  Totally over it.  I spent about three weeks crying and breaking things after I found out, another three once I found out they were still carrying on.  Then we had a long break and I realized I missed him.  Do whatever you need to do to find out where you stand.  

Oh, just in case nobody told you this, IT IS NOT YOUR FAULT THAT HE HAD AN AFFAIR.  

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3 minutes ago, Lily Valley said:

Ugh Zabz.  

Well, it's pretty clear she's just working.  I know that totally doesn't make it any better.  What a colossally idiotic thing for him to do.

 If you want to PM me to yell, scream or vent all the hate you won't say to his face, feel free.  I was VERY lucky I had friends who were willing to support me and who also understood why I would take him back afterwards.  Whatever you wind up deciding, we're all here.

I do think it is possible to move on.  Even though he lied to me about things being over and even though they weren't actually over until the woman left town, we still patched things up for 5 more years.  They were mostly good years.  I can honestly say that 18 months down the road I was over it.  Totally over it.  I spent about three weeks crying and breaking things after I found out, another three once I found out they were still carrying on.  Then we had a long break and I realized I missed him.  Do whatever you need to do to find out where you stand.  

Oh, just in case nobody told you this, IT IS NOT YOUR FAULT THAT HE HAD AN AFFAIR.  

Thanks Lily.  I may do that.  And she was/is totally just working, and he's totally a chump and a sucker.

I was really angry at first - I didn't break anything and I still haven't cried (which may or may not mean something).  I have given him a large piece of my unfiltered mind, which was not comfortable for him, particularly because I haven't even been raising my voice, just kind of dissecting it.  I totally, totally, totally know that it isn't my fault.  And to be fair, he isn't trying to make it my fault, and though he says at the time he semi-justified it because our relationship wasn't in a good place, he realizes now that his drinking was the primary reason why our relationship wasn't in a good place.  Don't know if he is just saying what I want to hear.  Need more work to figure it out.  Also want to understand in my own heart whether I would be happier alone/coparenting and dating (bonus - would join the dating thread!) or trying to make this work.

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