Stark Reunion and LittleFinger

[Sir Hedge of Hog]

I think Jon would make a good ruler. fair, honest. u cant judge him because he tried to save his brother who is a child...perhaps demure should have sent his baby to the catapult, to make him a good ruler?

I also think cersei is the queen who will come forth....not sansa....

 

[Sir Hedge of Hog]

I mean edmure....

[permaximum]

1 hour ago, Sir Hedge of Hog said:

I think Jon would make a good ruler. fair, honest. u cant judge him because he tried to save his brother who is a child...perhaps demure should have sent his baby to the catapult, to make him a good ruler?

I also think cersei is the queen who will come forth....not sansa....

 

I don't think being fair and honest is enough. Especially being honest is not desirable for a king. I believe there are thousands of people that's fair and honest in Westeros. Being a good King requires many things and honesty is not one of them.

[Masha]

5 hours ago, Sir Hedge of Hog said:

yes he has saved her but...its a bit weird that he wants to bed/marry sansa, he loved her mother, and now wants to have hokey cokey with sansa in the main honeymoon suite at WF...but he did betray Ned..he promised him the gold cloaks and look how that turned out. he fanned the flames of the stark/lannister conflict...now he has taken his revenge on the starks, for his humiliation....joffrey was to blame for the execution, but he betrayed ned nonetheless....

In the books he has done little more. It is implied that both Varys and Cersei wanted to pardon Ned and send him off to the Wall. But LF whispered/influenced Joffrey to execute Ned, Joff didn't decide to do so out of nowhere.

[illinifan]

4 hours ago, permaximum said:

I said it before early in the season and I say it again, Jon is a capable fighter, a bad commander and even worse leader. He lost every battle but one. He never won a war. Because of his lack of vision, imagination, politics, human motives and leadership skills along with his slow mind he even got himself killed. He never saw it coming.

Jon is brave, determined, honorable and he's the most good hearted main character but those don't make him a great leader, a commander or a fighter. He can be classified as a skilled fighter but that's all. A drunk Karl Tanner toyed with him while blubbering throughout the whole fight.

I really like Jon, but he would make a very bad ruler. His story should be about defending the lines against White Walkers in the North. He will not and should not become a King. Robb was more of a charismatic smart leader with a good thinking mind but even that was not enough for him to survive. In the case of Jon, odds are even worse.

Back to the topic, Littlefinger may use Jon as a puppet exactly because of the things I mentioned and reveal his parentage but Jon will have too much effect on the common people because of him being Rheagar's son and his supernatural resurrection. It would be risky even for Littlefinger to follow that road and overcome Jon's starting legend.

 

 

I think LF trying to manipulate Jon and trying to use Jon's parentage against Cersei and Dany.  

And Jon really is Ned's son even if it probably only is foster son.  He is one of the few people left who would put the interests of others first. However, he does need someone who tells him how the world works and keeps him from making stupid Ned Stark level mistakes.

[mattnj81]

6 hours ago, illinifan said:

LF totally survives this season.  I suspect that he uses Jon's parentage to start another round of chaos in Westros.  I also think that he survives the series because at least one baddie has to survive or it isn't GOT.

I think he dies this Sunday personally. 

[Masha]

2 hours ago, mattnj81 said:

I think he dies this Sunday personally. 

Nah, he lives on. I think we still need to get our final Varys vs LF banter before the end. 

Euron will be partial baddy next season

LF will probably start off next Dance of Dragons between Dany and Jon, unless WW attack first. Then Jon will be busy with WW ignoring Dany and LF will provoke Dany to attack the North to get Jon - and thats where her army gets destroyed by WW

[mattnj81]

2 hours ago, Masha said:

Nah, he lives on. I think we still need to get our final Varys vs LF banter before the end. 

Euron will be partial baddy next season

LF will probably start off next Dance of Dragons between Dany and Jon, unless WW attack first. Then Jon will be busy with WW ignoring Dany and LF will provoke Dany to attack the North to get Jon - and thats where her army gets destroyed by WW

Interesting theory. But with Tyrion advising Dany, she should know not to trust LF. Either way, I don't think he lives past the scene in the Godswood, but we'll see. I'm honestly clueless about what will happen next on the show, which is nice. It's been awhile since we had no idea what was going to happen next.

[Morgain]

12 hours ago, permaximum said:

I said it before early in the season and I say it again, Jon is a capable fighter, a bad commander and even worse leader. He lost every battle but one. He never won a war. Because of his lack of vision, imagination, politics, human motives and leadership skills along with his slow mind he even got himself killed. He never saw it coming.

Jon is brave, determined, honorable and he's the most good hearted main character but those don't make him a great leader, a commander or a fighter. He can be classified as a skilled fighter but that's all. A drunk Karl Tanner toyed with him while blubbering throughout the whole fight ...

Thank you. It's becoming annoying how people cannot separate two very different things. A person can be good, honourable, kind, decent, loyal. That doesn't make them a leader or battle commander. To lead means to grasp the dirty side of people (like Tyrion, and Tywin). It means being cold, and able to sacrifice a small number of other people to save many. It means being aware that what seems like a personal decision is not, because a leader's acts are bigger: they splash on many others. It means NOT being impulsive, NOT rushing in just because you feel like it.

Littlefinger, a nasty piece of work, is far more a leader than Jon is. I'm suprised Jon got to be Commander anywhere. People like him just get chewed up if they try politics or war. he should stick to training fighters. He's a good teacher and a good fighter.

[Bluesnow]

I do think LF will reveal R+L=J... if not why would they have that scene in the crypts with LF talking about Lyanna at all xD
I know D&D do some random scenes sometimes... but to talk about something that important with LF at the center screams something important is going to happen. THis may not happen in the next episode though. 

As much as LF has to die at some point... I don't want him to die yet. 
Of course he wants to bang Sansa... but I don't think that is his long term ambition... I still want to see his full evil plan evilness unfold and THEN Sansa can toss him off a cliff... or Ghost can eat him or something. 

I would love to see Jon threaten little finger in the next episode... LF is so cocky that its a great deal of fun to see him squirm. 

[nothatso]

6 hours ago, Morgain said:

Littlefinger, a nasty piece of work, is far more a leader than Jon is. 

I think you're having an issue differentiating between "leader" and "boss".

[Lord Lannister]

Janos Slynt could have conceivably blabbed about Littlefinger's role in betraying Ned to Jon while at the Wall. After all it was Littlefinger's orders he was following when he pretended to be loyal to Ned only to double cross him.

[Lord of Nutella]

Jon is not a bad commander...we see him in 3 battles. One was literally impossible to win and he didnt start it (Hardhome) , he won the Battle at the Wall (sure he got saved, but nobody could have held the castle against those odds) and Winterfell... yeah, he fucked up there. But even then it was because of a special situation, he did actually have a plan before that Rickon thing happened. 

 

So im nosayinging hes necessarily a very good commander like  Robb, Tywin or Stannis, i dont think hes bad either. 

And to the Karl Tanner thing...goodness, D and D wanted their super predictable "omg he might die" scene. Thats all there is to it. Its clearly indicated in the show that he is a very good swordsman.  

Regarding king...yeah, i guess youre not wrong there. Even tho i hope his experience of betrayal changed him a little.

[Jedi Renee]

On 24/06/2016 at 9:39 PM, Adam141414 said:

Littlefinger has twice escaped death. Once by Cersei when he went too far with his incest insinuation in season 1. Then again when he met Sansa after she has escaped from Ramsay and LF was at the mercy of Brienne. 

GOT rules dictate he cant get another let off. He either stays ahead of the game, or he gets killed. No character has been spared 3 times in the series. 

The scene with cersei was season 2, when she was demanding he find arya 

On 24/06/2016 at 10:16 PM, Sir Hedge of Hog said:

I think he will survive this season...but I don't think he will survive the series...gut feeling that sansa, bran(treebran)tyrion will survive the series...

I don't think bran wil be stuck to a tree like the 3eyed raven was.

20 hours ago, Masha said:

In the books he has done little more. It is implied that both Varys and Cersei wanted to pardon Ned and send him off to the Wall. But LF whispered/influenced Joffrey to execute Ned, Joff didn't decide to do so out of nowhere.

When did LF tel joffrey to kill Ned? 

Definitely agree we need to see varys and LF meet again. I think varys will out live LF, as LF is too greedy. 

[caravaggio]

Well there is someone riding north who saw LF betray Ned and who loves Sansa; the Hound.

[Chib]

Setting up some candle for Sandor to make it to Winterfell along with Arya. 

[A Ghost of Someone]

Littlefinger's days are numbered. He has double crossed just about everyone and I think he knows it. He was counting on having the North, Sansa and a whole Kingdome, The Starks (they took his CAT from him) all to himself where he coult not be touched by the Lannisters once they found out he betrayed them.  He did not count on Jon Snow being killed and resurrected, thus being free of his vows and leading the Bolton opposition. He does not know that the true King, Bran is alive and headed South and he lucked out with Rickon being slaughtered.

Now, Sophie (Sansa) has said in interviews that LF owes her big time so if we use logic and that is a stretch with this show, She, Sansa should tell LF that "we are even" and go home. She owes LF nothing more than a degree of forgiveness and not to have him killed after what she went through. LF will want more. IF Sansa marries LF willingly, than I wish she would die. She would be an idiot if she did. She knows he framed her for Joff's murder and she has said so herself, Ramsay has damaged her for life. LF made that happen. Even if she never finds out about Ned, she owes him nothing. Tell him goodbye and send him on his way.

Alas, I do not think she will.

[Cragen]

13 hours ago, Morgain said:

Thank you. It's becoming annoying how people cannot separate two very different things. A person can be good, honourable, kind, decent, loyal. That doesn't make them a leader or battle commander. To lead means to grasp the dirty side of people (like Tyrion, and Tywin). It means being cold, and able to sacrifice a small number of other people to save many. It means being aware that what seems like a personal decision is not, because a leader's acts are bigger: they splash on many others. It means NOT being impulsive, NOT rushing in just because you feel like it.

Littlefinger, a nasty piece of work, is far more a leader than Jon is. I'm suprised Jon got to be Commander anywhere. People like him just get chewed up if they try politics or war. he should stick to training fighters. He's a good teacher and a good fighter.

Problem with Jon this season is they dumb him down, so they can have badass battle. Now they need Jon to be leader, so they will introduce Jon from the book.

[Elisabetta Duò]

The Starks in general are often not the smartest in the room and if we exclude Bran and Arya (whose storyline is peculiar) and now Sansa (who had the chance to learn from the best players), the problem is the Starks don't know what people want / are unable to guess it / give up guessing it because they don't understand the game of thrones.

That's why they are always betrayed.

See Ned to Varys: "I don't know what you want. I've given up trying to guess".

That's the opposite approach of Tyrion, who is constantly guessing what people might want and asking people 'what do you want?' (Bronn, Varys, Shagga&co etc. etc.) in order to understand their flaws, outsmart them, align his goals with theirs and win them over.
So it's very interestng that in the 6x10 preview, we have Sansa asking LF 'what do you want?'. She has clearly absorbed Tyrion's lesson here (they would meet on an equal level now and they would be great at politics together I think ,that's one of the many reasons why I could see them as allies in the future or deciding to not put their marriage aside, if he doesn't die - which he will if she's destined to literally and not just 'generally' inspired by Elizabeth I more than by Elizabeth of York).

Knowing what LF wants, she will have the chance to use his weakness to her own advantage. I don't think she'll marry him (unless she has already planned to kill him) but she might be procrastinating or giving him false hope.

If she just turned him down in the next episode saying she doesn't love him, I would be disappointed with D&D because that would be out of character, that would be what a S1 Stark would do… an emotional, honest choice men like Jon and Ned would make, not the 'new' Sansa... and truly a bad choice strategically (she needs him now). So either she kills him and manage to cover it up with Robyn, or - more likely - she finds a way to keep him by her side without giving him what he wants but without denying him either.

I don't know how Jon might fit (he looks less and less a player of the GoT and more and more a man of ice, whose mission is against the White Walkers) and how the possible return of Arya might impact on it (personally I don't think we'll see any Arya/Sansa reunion on 6x10). I guess Arya will be on the road, possibly meeting the Hound or other characters and even in the unlikely case they reach Winterfell, we won't have the reunion yet.

[Lord of Nutella]

Somebody watched a youtube video today