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Has George confirmed that Dany will unite the Dothraki?


ncb

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I'm not a regular visitor but I've seen many people taking it for granted. Is it confirmed? And even if it is what is Dany going to do with them?

Drogo had the biggest khalasar with 40.000 riders. 100.000 including women and children so the total number of Dothraki must be at least five to ten times as many. 

Does anyone really think that Dany will find enough ships to transport them to Westeros, that they will happily go with her, that they will assimilate, abandon slavery, follow new laws, change their customs, get accepted by the lords and commoners of Westeros an all that in the middle of winter?

What she can (theoretically) do is take control of Jhaqo's khalasar, fullfill her oath regarding him and Mago, return to Meereen to kill what is left of her enemies outside the city and depart for Westeros. Of course most of the problems I mentioned above remain but perhaps it will be easier to work with a few thousands rather than with hundreds of thousands.

Nor do I believe that the hopes Vogarro's whore has will ever be realized. If I remember correctly it was Qavo Nogarys who said that the slave trade is a chain that starts from the Free Cities and ends beyond Asshai. Slaver's Bay is only a link. So unless Dany intends to stay in Essos and spend the rest of her life fighting slaver cities she will probably wrap things up and depart for Westeros the moment she hears about Aegon.

As to how she will reach Westeros with close to 10.000 Unsullied (including those still in training) an perhaps 50.000 Dothraki (Jhaqo has 20.000 riders and I doubt they will leave their families behind) or even half that number if many of them choose not to follow her is a whole different matter. 

 

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i dont know if he confirmedit or not but i think it will only be logical if she eventually leads them all cos her story started with dothraki and i dont think george martin would just let it end without any dothraki action there

remember victarion is leading towards her and capturing any ships on his way for her, and if it goes how they showed in the show she will have more ships after battle of meereen and that may just be enough for her maybe

also...at first they might not be happy when she puts rules on them they wont like like no rape and such but remember after when khal drogo had put those rules on his khalasar to make dany happy they didnt have much problem and some of them continued with it after dany hatched her dragons, she can be very effective at times...they dont even need to be accepted by any lords cos lords will be expected to accept them unless they wanna go bye bye once dany gets iron throne, its all about her rules, not the lords

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Fine let's say they abandon slavery and they are willing to assimilate. Where will she find the food to feed them and ships to carry them. Winter is here and most Westerosi will die from hunger and cold. Same applies to the Dothraki. Nor can a ruler disregard the opinion of his lords even if he/she has dragons. Maegor is proof that you cannot rule based only on fear. 

As for Victarion he only wants Dany and the dragons. No one else. He doesn't care about Unsullied or slaves or Dothraki. He plans to take her by force and run. Plus unlike Dothraki the Ironborn have lords and captains. Their loyalty does not change the moment their leader dies. I doubt they will be willing to help her and even if they are they don't have enough ships. Dany needed three ships (Illyrio's) to carry 100 Dothraki with their horses. If we assume that it's ship can take this number, as long as it doesn't have any cargo, Dany would need 100 ships just for the Unsullied.

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Drogon can be very persuasive.

Also, I really don't get where people get the idea that Victarion is a potential ally for Dany. He's a dumbass who comes to Dany as a her potential abductor, rapist and dragon thief. I think she might object.

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Just now, The Sleeper said:

Drogon can be very persuasive.

Also, I really don't get where people get the idea that Victarion is a potential ally for Dany. He's a dumbass who comes to Dany as a her potential abductor, rapist and dragon thief. I think she might object.

I guess he will end as a snack for Drogon at some point, as there is little chance of a long-term alliance. However, I think there may be a short-term alliance against the slavers before Victarion's attempt to steal the dragons goes terribly wrong for him.

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21 minutes ago, The Sleeper said:

Also, I really don't get where people get the idea that Victarion is a potential ally for Dany. He's a dumbass who comes to Dany as a her potential abductor, rapist and dragon thief. I think she might object.

In my opinion theories like this start from some overzealous commentators. They insist so much that others just give up or don't even participate in a conversation and suddenly it is as if George said it himself.

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It is not common for an author to tell people the twists they plan before they've released the books, but I expect Dany to unite the Dothraki based on this (ACOK-Chapter 48):

Quote

Beneath the Mother of Mountains, a line of naked crones crept from a great lake and knelt shivering before her, their grey heads bowed.

I know some people are uncomfortable with making assumptions from foreshadowing, but it doesn't bother me. If I'm wrong what's the worse that could happen?

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1 hour ago, ncb said:

Fine let's say they abandon slavery and they are willing to assimilate. Where will she find the food to feed them and ships to carry them. Winter is here and most Westerosi will die from hunger and cold. Same applies to the Dothraki. Nor can a ruler disregard the opinion of his lords even if he/she has dragons. Maegor is proof that you cannot rule based only on fear. 

As for Victarion he only wants Dany and the dragons. No one else. He doesn't care about Unsullied or slaves or Dothraki. He plans to take her by force and run. Plus unlike Dothraki the Ironborn have lords and captains. Their loyalty does not change the moment their leader dies. I doubt they will be willing to help her and even if they are they don't have enough ships. Dany needed three ships (Illyrio's) to carry 100 Dothraki with their horses. If we assume that it's ship can take this number, as long as it doesn't have any cargo, Dany would need 100 ships just for the Unsullied.

Volantene navy should provide the ships. Volantene slaves are on the verge of rebellion, and I'll be willing to bet that most of their sailors are slaves (most of the soldiers of Astapor and Yunkai are slaves). The Volantene navy is approaching Meereen. She'll have her ships.

She'll also have the Dothraki, who will not fall down and worship her because of mere fear, but because of awe. She's got the dragons, so seems powerful and magical. I'll make a wild guess that the crones of Vaes Dothrak announce that Dany is the savior the Dothraki have been waiting for, adding to her draw. 

As for food: Dothraki are scavengers, but they will be Dany's scavengers, which means GRRM will rain manna upon them, whether this is realistic or not.

Anyway, she should be fairly overpowered upon reaching Westeros: Volantene navy, the Dothraki, the Unsullied, three dragons. Isn't that more powerful than what the first Aegon had? Add to that the fact that Westeros is severely weakened thanks to dynastic change, incompetent rulers, civil war, famine, and winter. I think she'll cut across the place like butter. Her epiphany already taught her that she's not the nurturing ruler--no planting trees for her. Conveniently, the zombie apocalypse should manifest by the time she takes over, so she should be able to avoid ruling in favor of blood and fire.

Things will work out. This is Dany.

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There's not much of a guarantee that the Dothraki would willingly board a ship to cross the Narrow Sea. They have a superstitious dread of the bitter water, and only Khal Drogo's force of personality got his personal khalasar to agree to do this. 

Plus, the logistics are daunting. As things are, the Dothraki would have to take all their dependents with them or they would be captured and sold as slaves, so you have maybe three times the number compared to how many warriors. The trip across the Narrow Sea is longer than anything Dany has tried (by water) before, so there's food and water for the humans and horses to consider. Etc.

 

On the other hand, Martin tends to play fast and loose with numbers, so it could happen in defiance of logic.

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1. Dany doesn't have to take all the Dothraki with her to Westeros even if she ends up ruling them all. So the very question of this thread might be moot.

2. If Dany wanted to take all the Dothraki to Westeros there is no reason to believe she would have to take them with her at once. She could command them to march to the west coast of Essos and then get them across the Narrow Sea in whatever ships she has (which should be many in any case) by going back and forth between Westeros and Essos.

3. The original outline has Dany effectively as the ruler of the Dothraki so one assumes that she is not going to take over one khalasar. And AGoT introduced Vaes Dothrak and the dosh khaleen for a reason.

All the Dothraki should number in the millions. Drogo had 40,000 warriors and 100,000 people, but his was just one khalasar of many. It would most likely be impractical and stupid to take all the Dothraki to Westeros - especially in light of the fact that Dany might want to conquer vast portions of Essos, too. Qarth declared war on her and may soon face the wrath of multiple Dothraki khalasars. Dany's crusade against slavery also can only be successful if she puts down all the slaver regimes - not only in Slaver's Bay but also in the cities around it, followed by all the Free Cities aside from Braavos.

The Dothraki could be a great help in that.

How they make their peace with Dany's new rules is a different questions. But if Dany becomes the living god of all the Dothraki - just as she is already the living god of those Dothraki who saw her hatch the dragon eggs (remember, those people threw their culture and customs out of the window and decided to follow a woman who took bloodriders from among their ranks) - then I see no problem with any of that. Anyone disobeying an order will be fed to Drogon.

Even without that threat no Dothraki following Dany is right now keeping slaves or raping helpless women.

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10 hours ago, kimim said:

Volantene navy should provide the ships. Volantene slaves are on the verge of rebellion, and I'll be willing to bet that most of their sailors are slaves (most of the soldiers of Astapor and Yunkai are slaves). The Volantene navy is approaching Meereen. She'll have her ships.

We tend to think that different people act as one depending on where they live or what they do even though we've seen that this assumption is wrong. Not all Northern lords liked the Starks (Bolton, Dustin, Ryswell). Not all the lords of the Reach followed the Tyrells after Renly's death (Florent, Fossoway, Varner).
 
Yes the slaves in Volantis follow R'hllor including many Tiger Cloaks but that doesn't mean they have the same interests. The Tiger Cloaks stand above all other slaves and the poor free people of Volantis. Why would they want to change that? Slaves they are but they are not cleaning shit from the streets. Why would they put their positions in society in jeopardy? Especially after hearing what Dany caused in Astapor and seeing what happened in Meereen. Whores in cheap brothels, slaves in mines, slaves in ships. These would gladly risk to change their lives but not the Tiger Cloaks. They are better that all other slaves and probably better than they would be if they were free. Take for example areo Hotah. The youngest of six children was sold to the Bearded Priests of Norvos and ended up as captain of the Guard for the Prince of Dorne. Sure he had no choice on the matter but he is probably in much better position than his siblings.

5 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

1. Dany doesn't have to take all the Dothraki with her to Westeros even if she ends up ruling them all. So the very question of this thread might be moot.

2. If Dany wanted to take all the Dothraki to Westeros there is no reason to believe she would have to take them with her at once. She could command them to march to the west coast of Essos and then get them across the Narrow Sea in whatever ships she has (which should be many in any case) by going back and forth between Westeros and Essos.

3. The original outline has Dany effectively as the ruler of the Dothraki so one assumes that she is not going to take over one khalasar. And AGoT introduced Vaes Dothrak and the dosh khaleen for a reason.

All the Dothraki should number in the millions. Drogo had 40,000 warriors and 100,000 people, but his was just one khalasar of many. It would most likely be impractical and stupid to take all the Dothraki to Westeros - especially in light of the fact that Dany might want to conquer vast portions of Essos, too. Qarth declared war on her and may soon face the wrath of multiple Dothraki khalasars. Dany's crusade against slavery also can only be successful if she puts down all the slaver regimes - not only in Slaver's Bay but also in the cities around it, followed by all the Free Cities aside from Braavos.

The Dothraki could be a great help in that.

How they make their peace with Dany's new rules is a different questions. But if Dany becomes the living god of all the Dothraki - just as she is already the living god of those Dothraki who saw her hatch the dragon eggs (remember, those people threw their culture and customs out of the window and decided to follow a woman who took bloodriders from among their ranks) - then I see no problem with any of that. Anyone disobeying an order will be fed to Drogon.

Even without that threat no Dothraki following Dany is right now keeping slaves or raping helpless women.

1) If she doesn't take them with her (which is perfectly reasonable) she will soon lose them. A person not seen is a person forgotten, especially a ruler.
2) As long as she is paying for the ships, yes. Though the matter of food and climate remain.
3) I assume you are talking about that letter George had sent to his editor explaining what will happen in the three books he was planning. Many things have changed since then and continue to change. We don't even know how many the Dothraki were supposed to be back then. Perhaps a small tribe numbering a few thousands and not a whole nation.
Seven save us if she decides to conquer large parts of Essos. She won't reach Westeros until book #22. Plus Dothraki know close to nothing about sieges. That's why even Drogo would need the Golden Company's help in attacking Westeros. Besides how many thousands of people who are blameless will die in this series of conquests? I think she finally understands (based on what she says and "hears" in the last chapter of ADwD) that Essos is not her home and she has no chance to adapt to its customs.
Indeed Dany is a living god for the Dothraki who saw her coming out of a fire alive. They completely changed their ways. That won't happen again as we know since she is not fireproof. Nor can she rule untold thousands based of fear and dragons alone. Maegor tried that and failed. 
People follow leaders for glory and gain, mostly gain. But Dany doesn't want to change the system of Westeros and replace the lords. She just wants to sit on the Iron Throne and rule like her predecessors. After the war the Dothraki will be a burden for her. Other than some looting during the war where is the gain for them?

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13 hours ago, bent branch said:

It is not common for an author to tell people the twists they plan before they've released the books, but I expect Dany to unite the Dothraki based on this (ACOK-Chapter 48):

Agreed. Plus, most likely, not Rhaego but Dany is the Stallion (never mind the gender - if a Dothraki seer saw a leading figure, the assumption would automatically be "male", so we may get a similar twist as when Aemon points out that dragons are genderless and the "prince" might actually me "princess", as well). To go forward, she must go back where she had started - with the Dothraki. Who would indeed want to take her to Vaes Dothrak where all ex-khaleesi belong, and where the khalassars are supposed to be united. 

IMHO, there is enough foreshadowing for her story arc to be reunited with the Dothraki, as if GRRM said it aloud. What she is going to do with the Dothraki is an entirely different matter, though.

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13 hours ago, ncb said:

Yes the slaves in Volantis follow R'hllor including many Tiger Cloaks but that doesn't mean they have the same interests. The Tiger Cloaks stand above all other slaves and the poor free people of Volantis. Why would they want to change that? Slaves they are but they are not cleaning shit from the streets. Why would they put their positions in society in jeopardy?

That is a problematic argument because George is very much indicating in ADwD that Benerro commands the loyalty and the hearts of the majority of the tiger soldiers. And that has been put into the book for a reason. We are not supposed to assume that the tigers are fiercely loyal to the Old Blood - if that was the case then the triarchs would already have put down Benerro and the other red priests of Volantis.

13 hours ago, ncb said:

1) If she doesn't take them with her (which is perfectly reasonable) she will soon lose them. A person not seen is a person forgotten, especially a ruler.

Last we looked Daenerys Targaryen was a dragonrider. She can keep tabs on her subjects in a very effective way. And again - if Dany becomes the living god of all the Dothraki then this problem would be non existing. You do not betray your god.

Those Dothraki not happy with divine Daenerys as their ruler will most likely not live to the point we are talking about here. They will be killed.

13 hours ago, ncb said:

2) As long as she is paying for the ships, yes. Though the matter of food and climate remain.

She is not going to pay anybody for any ships. She'll take them. The Iron Fleet first, then the Ghiscari ships, then the Volantene ships, afterwards those of the other cities near Slaver's Bay.

13 hours ago, ncb said:

3) I assume you are talking about that letter George had sent to his editor explaining what will happen in the three books he was planning. Many things have changed since then and continue to change. We don't even know how many the Dothraki were supposed to be back then. Perhaps a small tribe numbering a few thousands and not a whole nation.

Considering that we get numbers on Drogo's horde rather early in the book I doubt that George had no idea how many Dothraki there were at this point. In fact, it could even have been more considering that Dany was actually supposed to conquer Westeros only with the Dothraki (and perhaps will Dornish help) at this point.

13 hours ago, ncb said:

Seven save us if she decides to conquer large parts of Essos. She won't reach Westeros until book #22.

Not necessarily. We could go back to 'report warfare' the way George informed us about Robb's successes in ACoK. We don't have to be there when the Dothraki crush Qarth, Qohor, Lorath, Norvos, and Myr. We might be there when Volantis, Lys, Tyrosh, and Pentos fall, though, because this might be covered by some POVs.

And perhaps Dany is going to accompany her army on Drogon to Qarth, too. I'm inclined to believe she would want to put down the Pureborn herself.

13 hours ago, ncb said:

Plus Dothraki know close to nothing about sieges. That's why even Drogo would need the Golden Company's help in attacking Westeros. Besides how many thousands of people who are blameless will die in this series of conquests? I think she finally understands (based on what she says and "hears" in the last chapter of ADwD) that Essos is not her home and she has no chance to adapt to its customs.

If the Dothraki become religious fanatics fighting for their living god then nothing is going to stop them. They will storm any city wall in their path. And unlike in the past Dany could now sent multiple khalasars against one city, and they would be overwhelmed by their sheer numbers.

13 hours ago, ncb said:

Indeed Dany is a living god for the Dothraki who saw her coming out of a fire alive. They completely changed their ways. That won't happen again as we know since she is not fireproof. Nor can she rule untold thousands based of fear and dragons alone. Maegor tried that and failed. 

Well, the question there is: What was it that made Dany the living god of the Dothraki who are already following her?

The magic trick of her surviving the pyre? Or the dragons?

My money is on her becoming the Mother of Dragons. Dragons are the supreme power in this world and the Dothraki fear and admire the dragons. They want to be like them. That is why Khal Dhako, a khal showing up in TWoIaF, liked to style himself 'the Dragon of the North' (he lived during the Century of Blood). And this is most likely also the reason why the hell Khal Drogo wanted to marry the last Targaryen princess.

13 hours ago, ncb said:

People follow leaders for glory and gain, mostly gain. But Dany doesn't want to change the system of Westeros and replace the lords. She just wants to sit on the Iron Throne and rule like her predecessors. After the war the Dothraki will be a burden for her. Other than some looting during the war where is the gain for them?

Dany might decide to change the society of Westeros to be more accommodating to Dothraki lifestyle. Or she might not intend to settle them permanently in the western marches of her empire (she might very well decide keep what she has conquered rather than handing it back to the people - the cities she conquered could easily be ruled by satraps or archons she appointed, just as the dragonlords of old ruled their provinces) sending them back to Essos after their job there is done.

Perhaps only a smaller number of Dothraki will accompany her, after all. She'll have the Volantenes, the Ironborn, the sellswords, and her own free companies. That is more than enough to take Westeros.

And you are right that taking a lot of riders to Westeros in the middle of winter is not necessarily the best of ideas. She might realize that, too.

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On June 25, 2016 at 1:05 PM, The Sleeper said:

Also, I really don't get where people get the idea that Victarion is a potential ally for Dany.

right? where is this coming from? 

 

BTW: It is my ernest opinion that Victorion will be the person to kill dany, it will be in a mad rage, totally pointless and leave the dragon queen bloody and dead and a lot of readers shocked that this character they invested so much in is just dead for no rhyme or reason.

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