UK Politics: A Farcical Aquatic Ceremony

[ElizabethB.]

55 minutes ago, Hereward said:

Perhaps because it isn't, and never has been, primarily a "trade union".

I cant get how "monetary" would arouse any more sentiment specially with the uk.

 

[scotcat]

5 minutes ago, JoannaL said:

If someone tells me ...to do what he want or ELSE... he does not act in a good neighbouringly way. This is what Farage did.

It is already starting, everyone is thinking us (27) and them (the idiotic Brits). I assume in the UK its the other way around. And to NOT think this, was the reason for the construction of the EU: It has never been about a trade union, this is just a very minor part. The EU has many faults and there is a lot to critize and to reform but the idea was to build an new us -us Europeans - . It is absolutly important to not detroy this us.

 

Not everyone feels that way.  Scotland voted - and voted clearly - to remain. 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

10 minutes ago, HobbsTuna said:

The reason that the US does not have the "same problems" is selective immigration. You people sort for economic usefulness and tell the rest to go get bend. This has the happy side-effect of a.) only letting people in, who are to busy to making money to isolate themselves, b.) have the financial resources to prevent ghetto effects and c.) do not cause resentments in the locals as they don't use up more resources than they consume. Admittedly the third point is kinda mute with the US, as pissing on low-income people and calling it rain, seems to be somewhat of a national sport, so there wasn't all that much danger of them running into a social program to begin with. 

The ignorance in this post is stunning. 

[Hereward]

2 minutes ago, ElizabethB. said:

I cant get how "monetary" would arouse any more sentiment specially with the uk.

 

It wasn't primarily, or even mainly, a monetary union any more than it was a trade union. It was a political project, and avowedly so. Many people, and some countries, preferred to ignore that, or were lied to about that, but it's true. It seems, belatedly for some, that the political dream, in the UK, has become clearer and people are expressing grief at the destruction of that.

[HobbsTuna]

1 hour ago, Hereward said:

Massive cockweasel though he is, and needlessly rude as well, he's not threatening German carworkers, as such. He's saying that if the EU decides to deny Britain a free trade deal of some kind, as punishment for leaving, tariffs would be introduced on both sides, and German industry would suffer greatly because Germany has a huge trade surplus with Britain.

As for why so many, particularly older, Britons don't see the more idealistic reasons for the EU, I would have thought that was obvious. The founding members wanted to put awful recent history behind them, through shame in some cases, or never again to be at the mercy of larger neighbours, in others. Britain felt neither impulse. It was, and remains, proud of the period the Germans, Italians and French wanted to forget. Add to that, that they may also recall that when Britain did decide it wanted to, needed to, join in the 60s, France told it to fuck off. Twice. Britain had to beg. That is not a memory designed to cause idealism and enthusiasm in a proud population.

I'm not sure, if I would run my mouth so much in his place, after all German car makers can find new markets. Anyway that's a knife that cuts 2 ways. Number estimates I have seen around here, speak about 0.1 to 0.3 % shaved of the growth estimate for Germany. How does that look for Britain?

If the city of London goes up in flames and all the rats are leaving for the continent (I wonder how many will relocate to Frankfurt?), when the trading rights are revoked, it could very well turn out positive for Germany in the long-run.

As for British National Pride issues,  I really can't begin describe how little I care, but I'll admit to a certain satisfaction that they choose to remove themselves from the scenes with their extra rights and opt-outs and don't-touch-my-precious-banks. 

Maybe 10 years down the line, the proud populace can get back to begging. Or not. As long as we can finally get an effective bank regulation passed in this joint, I'll be happy. 

 

 

 

[HobbsTuna]

12 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

The ignorance in this post is stunning. 

Feel free to educate me, at any time, honeybee. 

[A Horse Named Stranger]

23 hours ago, scotcat said:

Basically? Yes. We're not at the point yet where we're leaving the UK, though it very well could come. 

I honestly don't know how we can stay in the UK after this - we voted clearly to remain within the EU, which puts us directly at odds with Westminster.  If we get dragged out of the EU against our will, it likely will cause big problems.  What people tend to forget is that we are not merely a 'region' of the UK - we are a country.  

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CmCDMueWEAAM7i-.jpg

You were saying? I dunno if that passed, or will pass. But I bet that one would make the highlight reel in an indyref2 campaign.

[SeanF]

21 hours ago, England's Finest said:

26 minutes ago, JoannaL said:

If someone tells me ...to do what he want or ELSE... he does not act in a good neighbouringly way. This is what Farage did.

It is already starting, everyone is thinking us (27) and them (the idiotic Brits). I assume in the UK its the other way around. And to NOT think this, was the reason for the construction of the EU: It has never been about a trade union, this is just a very minor part. The EU has many faults and there is a lot to critize and to reform but the idea was to build an new us -us Europeans - . It is absolutly important to not detroy this us.

 

 

But, most of us over here have no desire to be part of a "new us".  Our vision of the EU - a trading relationship - is just not compatible with yours.

[The BlackBear]

Labour motion of no confidence in Jeremy Corbyn passed 172 - 40.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36647458

[kiko]

13 minutes ago, HobbsTuna said:

I'm not sure, if I would run my mouth so much in his place, after all German car makers can find new markets. Anyway that's a knife that cuts 2 ways. Number estimates I have seen around here, speak about 0.1 to 0.3 % shaved of the growth estimate for Germany. How does that look for Britain?

If the city of London goes up in flames and all the rats are leaving for the continent (I wonder how many will relocate to Frankfurt?), when the trading rights are revoked, it could very well turn out positive for Germany in the long-run.

As for British National Pride issues,  I really can't begin describe how little I care, but I'll admit to a certain satisfaction that they choose to remove themselves from the scenes with their extra rights and opt-outs and don't-touch-my-precious-banks. 

Maybe 10 years down the line, the proud populace can get back to begging. Or not. As long as we can finally get an effective bank regulation passed in this joint, I'll be happy. 

 

 

 

Don't you think that this post was rather rude?

[Chaircat Meow]

End of the road for Jez?

[The BlackBear]

8 minutes ago, Notone said:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CmCDMueWEAAM7i-.jpg

You were saying? I dunno if that passed, or will pass. But I bet that one would make the highlight reel in an indyref2 campaign.

The amendment will not pass. SNP nearly have a majority, and all the other party leaders have said they will back it. (With the obvious exception of Ruth Davidson who proposed it.)

1 minute ago, Chaircat Meow said:

End of the road for Jez?

It's non-binding so he'll likely fight it to the bloody and bitter end.

[DaveSumm]

Did a long post yesterday that bounced off some downtime, but the gist:

What happens if Corbyn doesn't have enough Mp's to field a shadow cabinet, but gets reelected as leader? Could we see another party as Her Majesty's Oppostion?

[Chaircat Meow]

Just now, DaveSumm said:

Did a long post yesterday that bounced off some downtime, but the gist:

What happens if Corbyn doesn't have enough Mp's to field a shadow cabinet, but gets reelected as leader? Could we see another party as Her Majesty's Oppostion?

I though the idea was Jez, Abbot and Mcdonnell do multiple jobs.

[scotcat]

13 minutes ago, Notone said:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CmCDMueWEAAM7i-.jpg

You were saying? I dunno if that passed, or will pass. But I bet that one would make the highlight reel in an indyref2 campaign.

Your point being? 

Ruth Davidson can oppose it all she likes.  She loses all credibility with the fact that last week she was campaigning vehemently to remain in the EU.  She keeps banging on about how this is against the will of themillion of those who voted to leave - well, they'll be told the same thing those of us who voted for independence were told.  Deal with it. 

62% of us voted to remain in the EU. 

[A Horse Named Stranger]

1 hour ago, Hereward said:

Massive cockweasel though he is, and needlessly rude as well, he's not threatening German carworkers, as such. He's saying that if the EU decides to deny Britain a free trade deal of some kind, as punishment for leaving, tariffs would be introduced on both sides, and German industry would suffer greatly because Germany has a huge trade surplus with Britain.

As for why so many, particularly older, Britons don't see the more idealistic reasons for the EU, I would have thought that was obvious. The founding members wanted to put awful recent history behind them, through shame in some cases, or never again to be at the mercy of larger neighbours, in others. Britain felt neither impulse. It was, and remains, proud of the period the Germans, Italians and French wanted to forget. Add to that, that they may also recall that when Britain did decide it wanted to, needed to, join in the 60s, France told it to fuck off. Twice. Britain had to beg. That is not a memory designed to cause idealism and enthusiasm in a proud population.

There probably will be a trade deal, just not a cherry picked one with Johnson (or any other Briton) dictating terms. It will basically be, access to the single market in exchange for money and free movement. Yes, there would be some backlash on the German economy, BUT the tariffs would not be placed on and by Germany alone. True Britain has a trade deficit with the EU in its entirety, but tariffs would basically mean, stuff gets more expensive in the shops. So I think the British people will be on the short end of that stick.

[Werthead]

7 minutes ago, Chaircat Meow said:

End of the road for Jez?

Depends a lot on this:

Quote

The party is preparing itself for a legal battle over whether Corbyn is automatically placed back on the ballot for the contest, or whether he will have to collect nominations. There are at least two sets of legal advice on the issue, with differing conclusions.

If he gets on the ballot to go to the wider Labour party, he will almost certainly win and I think the only way forward from there is mass deselection of Labour MPs. How the hell that would work, I don't know. But it'd be something that I doubt the Labour Party could survive in any meaningful form.

If he can't get on the ballot then obviously it's game over for him, but the membership would go spare and a lot of those idealistic new young Labour voters will probably sod off amongst the Lib Dems and Greens.

[Chaircat Meow]

3 minutes ago, scotcat said:

Your point being? 

Ruth Davidson can oppose it all she likes.  She loses all credibility with the fact that last week she was campaigning vehemently to remain in the EU.  She keeps banging on about how this is against the will of themillion of those who voted to leave - well, they'll be told the same thing those of us who voted for independence were told.  Deal with it. 

62% of us voted to remain in the EU. 

Why does that mean she loses all credibility? Her position is perfectly consistent.

 

[SeanF]

1 minute ago, Notone said:

There probably will be a trade deal, just not a cherry picked one with Johnson (or any other Briton) dictating terms. It will basically be, access to the single market in exchange for money and free movement. Yes, there would be some backlash on the German economy, BUT the tariffs would not be placed on and by Germany alone. True Britain has a trade deficit with the EU in its entirety, but tariffs would basically mean, stuff gets more expensive in the shops. So I think the British people will be on the short end of that stick.

Yes and no.  Judging by the trade statistics, the Single Market works a good deal better for people selling into the UK than for UK exporters selling into the rest of the EU.  If stuff from the EU got more expensive, domestic goods would look more attractive to consumers by comparison.

[SeanF]

3 minutes ago, Werthead said:

Depends a lot on this:

If he gets on the ballot to go to the wider Labour party, he will almost certainly win and I think the only way forward from there is mass deselection of Labour MPs. How the hell that would work, I don't know. But it'd be something that I doubt the Labour Party could survive in any meaningful form.

If he can't get on the ballot then obviously it's game over for him, but the membership would go spare and a lot of those idealistic new young Labour voters will probably sod off amongst the Lib Dems and Greens.

If he can persuade the 40 to nominate him, it doesn't matter whether he automatically goes on to the ballot.