How Powerful Are the Dragons Really?

[stupidbullheadbastard]

 Dragons are an important key on any conquering/request. However I wanna know how far can you win a war, with a mediocre stratedy and dragons. I know dragons are not "bullet proof", hence Aegon I never defeating Dorne. We also had citations in the books about how only betting on dragons or making dragons, alone, your main focus can loose a battle, in Arianne's POV in a game of cyvasse(and bc GRRM loves a foreshadowing...). I also was watching GOT and Dany had been back for 30 seconds, therefor, she had to strategy, no plans, no men ready but just because she had Drogo she won a battle. Yes, yes I know the show doesn't follow the books, that's why I'm asking here, and focusing only on the books. How far can you go with dragons being your most powerful weapon? Could Dany or Aegon VI (if he gets a dragon) win Westeros? What would be the best strategy to win when you're fighting against an enemy who has a dragon?

[UnViserion]

Pretty f'ing powerful.

[Lord Lannister]

Hmm, depends on the dragon as well. The show has broadcast their limitations quite effectively, but I think there's a solid reason Dorne was never conquered and outside Aegon's Conquest and the Dance of Dragons they weren't heavily used.

[erra]

After reading the World of Ice and Fire, there are a couple interesting points about the dragons (and Dorne): 

 

1. Dorne was able to stay independent mostly because they would hide. There's a situation where Visenya (I think) showed up with her dragon, but nobody was in the city. Also, Aegon and his two sisters were always busy with battles and rebellions further north and their armies would have to travel through desert wastelands, or over stony dry mountains, just to get to Dorne. 

2. When dragons died, it was usually because Targaryans were fighting Targaryans, both sides with dragons. 

3. Or they died because they had been already chained up. 

 

So in the end, depending on the dragon's size, it can be supremely powerful and can make all the difference. Aegon for example destroyed everybody in Harrenhall by himself on his dragon. 

[StarkofWinterfell]

Aegon had a really small force when he invaded Westeros, but 3 dragons.

He was going up against armies 5 times the size of his and still won. Welcome to the board though, hope you stay and post and don't disappear!

[House Beaudreau]

3 hours ago, stupidbullheadbastard said:

 Dragons are an important key on any conquering/request. However I wanna know how far can you win a war, with a mediocre stratedy and dragons. I know dragons are not "bullet proof", hence Aegon I never defeating Dorne. We also had citations in the books about how only betting on dragons or making dragons, alone, your main focus can loose a battle, in Arianne's POV in a game of cyvasse(and bc GRRM loves a foreshadowing...). I also was watching GOT and Dany had been back for 30 seconds, therefor, she had to strategy, no plans, no men ready but just because she had Drogo she won a battle. Yes, yes I know the show doesn't follow the books, that's why I'm asking here, and focusing only on the books. How far can you go with dragons being your most powerful weapon? Could Dany or Aegon VI (if he gets a dragon) win Westeros? What would be the best strategy to win when you're fighting against an enemy who has a dragon?

GRRM has said many times that the Dragons are like Nuclear weapons. Which means that, yes they are "pretty F'ing powerful". But they're a lot of factors considering the usable power.  The whole narrative of Nuclear weapons only really works and makes sense if more than one side has dragons. So eventually I think Danys other two Dragons will be taken by other dragon riders either Stolen or whatever. 

The whole history of Dragons has taught us that Dragons and Dragonriders have a special bond. If Dragon riding is genetic like Warging with the Starks than the best chance of someone having the genetics to ride a Dragon would need Targaryen blood or some old Valyrian blood. Or in the rare cases a Dragon is lured to a dragon rider with overfeeding it with meat and taming it to be able to ride. Nettles does this in the Dance of Dragons with Sheepstealer. 

These are my possible Dragon Riders of the other two. 

Dany could possibly bond with all three of the dragons. If its a telepathic genetic then we know that people can bond with mulitple animals all at the same time. Valyrmyr Sixskins controls six animals at one time. Bran can feel all of the dire wolves. If Dany can control all three dragons tho that would make her one of the most powerful Wargs ever. right up there with Bran.  

Quentyn works kind of a combo of the genetic and the Nettle angle. Quentyn Martell is counting on his small amount of Targaryen blood but is also trying to tame the dragons with the slaughtered Ox or whatever it was. The only difference is that Nettles did the taming of her dragon over a period of time. She form a bond over time with sheepstealer rather than a Warging bond like Bran and Summer or Jon/ghost, Dany/Drogo. If you totally believe Quentyn is dead and burned to death than he didn't have the dragon genetics.

Victarion Greyjoy. He going to be in Slaver's Bay, and he collected a bunch of live meat on his way there. If he's smart he'll try to tame one of the dragons slowly and try to bond with him. I don't think the horn that Euron gives Victarion will have a effect on the dragons. there isn't any evidence that any of the Targaryens' had control of their dragons with a horn. I think the Horn has an effect on people not dragons. 

Aegon/young Griff. If he really is a son of Rhaegar their is a chance he could have the right genetics to ride a dragon. Aegon could be a fake and have no Targaryen blood or be another Blackfyre pretender. But the real problem is the only way he could bond with a dragon is if dany brings them to Westeros. 

Tyrion Lannister. They're are so many theories regarding Tyrion's parentage. Some people say Aerys is his real dad or that Joanne Lannister had some important blood that might be why Tywin and Aerys both wanted her. I Don't think Tyrion will ride a dragon. I eventually will think the dragons are a negative that cant be controlled,especially if Dany loses  control of one of the dragons.  

 Anyone with Warging abilities like any of the Stark children other than Sansa because we don't know if she ever developed her Warging. Arya has a pretty healthy love of dragons. If she stays in Essos I think she has a better chance than any of the other Starks. Bran and Jon Snow have a chance of dragon control if the dragons ever make their way to Westeros and then make it to the North. Don't think this will happen tho. 

Sweet Robin might have some Warging abilities that everyone seems to over look. Let me just say this, IT WOULD BE FUCKING AWESOME IF SWEET ROBIN BECAME A DRAGONRIDER.

I think the Dragons will eventually end up burning Kings Landing and hitting a hidden cache of wildfire and blowing up the city, the dragon and Dragon rider. What better Ironic situation is that that The Mother of Dragons blows up herself and her dragon trying to take back the the Iron Throne that was forged with dragons fire and all that awesome narrative metaphorical stuff. The dragons will be Dead or gone by the time they are truly needed to fight the Others. If the Dragons show up to the Fight with the "Ice Zombies" than its too easy for them to win good beats evil except the Dragons aren't good. They're suppose to be Nuclear weapons. People will become enlightened and not want war not want dragons not want to continue the fighting.   

[Lord Lannister]

1 hour ago, erra said:

So in the end, depending on the dragon's size, it can be supremely powerful and can make all the difference. Aegon for example destroyed everybody in Harrenhall by himself on his dragon. 

Along with other things, the removal of the five year gap pretty much nixed any possibility of Drogon growing into Balerion the Dread.

[Aegon VII]

Good question but I think it's largely irrelevant in the same way it's irrelevant how much damage a nuke would do. The threat of them is why their valuable, not their actual damage potential. They're the entire reason dany is where she is today and really, killing the unsullied masters is the only fighting they've done (not counting the fighting pit)

[Lady Blizzardborn]

On 6/25/2016 at 9:59 PM, stupidbullheadbastard said:

 Dragons are an important key on any conquering/request. However I wanna know how far can you win a war, with a mediocre stratedy and dragons. I know dragons are not "bullet proof", hence Aegon I never defeating Dorne. We also had citations in the books about how only betting on dragons or making dragons, alone, your main focus can loose a battle, in Arianne's POV in a game of cyvasse(and bc GRRM loves a foreshadowing...). I also was watching GOT and Dany had been back for 30 seconds, therefor, she had to strategy, no plans, no men ready but just because she had Drogo she won a battle. Yes, yes I know the show doesn't follow the books, that's why I'm asking here, and focusing only on the books. How far can you go with dragons being your most powerful weapon? Could Dany or Aegon VI (if he gets a dragon) win Westeros? What would be the best strategy to win when you're fighting against an enemy who has a dragon?

Hello and welcome to Forumos!

GRRM has described the dragons as flying weapons of mass destruction, so I think they'll take you a long way but you still need to be able to strategize where they would be of greatest use, and where you could use them as leverage to avoid battle. Torrhen Stark likely bent the knee because he'd already heard what had happened to the kingdoms that didn't and the people who lived in them. 

Dragon vs dragon depends on the skill and prowess of the dragonrider as much as the dragon itself. Baela Targaryen had a dragon barely big enough to ride but still flew up to meet Aegon II in the sky above Dragonstone and she and her dragon took him and Sunfyre (who was a full-grown dragon by the way) down. Sometimes the smaller dragons are far more ferocious than the older ones. I think it was Tessarion the blue queen who died in a fight against two other dragons. 

Of course the ultimate dragon on dragon battle was Aemond One-Eye and Prince Daemon over the God's Eye. Both dragons and both riders killed, but Daemon's body was never found. And Daemon leapt from his dragon onto Aemond's in mid-air to kill Aemond. Badass.

[The Fresh PtwP]

On 6/25/2016 at 9:24 PM, Rhaegar the Monstrous said:

Pretty f'ing powerful.

Before they even inflict a casualty one flying over the battlefield would be a huge hit to morale. Then I can only imagine how easy men would break once they see friends and family bathed in dragonfire that turns eyes to jelly...

[Lady Blizzardborn]

On 6/26/2016 at 1:16 AM, House Beaudreau said:

<snip

These are my possible Dragon Riders of the other two. 

Dany could possibly bond with all three of the dragons. If its a telepathic genetic then we know that people can bond with mulitple animals all at the same time. Valyrmyr Sixskins controls six animals at one time. Bran can feel all of the dire wolves. If Dany can control all three dragons tho that would make her one of the most powerful Wargs ever. right up there with Bran.  

Quentyn works kind of a combo of the genetic and the Nettle angle. Quentyn Martell is counting on his small amount of Targaryen blood but is also trying to tame the dragons with the slaughtered Ox or whatever it was. The only difference is that Nettles did the taming of her dragon over a period of time. She form a bond over time with sheepstealer rather than a Warging bond like Bran and Summer or Jon/ghost, Dany/Drogo. If you totally believe Quentyn is dead and burned to death than he didn't have the dragon genetics.

Victarion Greyjoy. He going to be in Slaver's Bay, and he collected a bunch of live meat on his way there. If he's smart he'll try to tame one of the dragons slowly and try to bond with him. I don't think the horn that Euron gives Victarion will have a effect on the dragons. there isn't any evidence that any of the Targaryens' had control of their dragons with a horn. I think the Horn has an effect on people not dragons. 

Aegon/young Griff. If he really is a son of Rhaegar their is a chance he could have the right genetics to ride a dragon. Aegon could be a fake and have no Targaryen blood or be another Blackfyre pretender. But the real problem is the only way he could bond with a dragon is if dany brings them to Westeros. 

Tyrion Lannister. They're are so many theories regarding Tyrion's parentage. Some people say Aerys is his real dad or that Joanne Lannister had some important blood that might be why Tywin and Aerys both wanted her. I Don't think Tyrion will ride a dragon. I eventually will think the dragons are a negative that cant be controlled,especially if Dany loses  control of one of the dragons.  

 Anyone with Warging abilities like any of the Stark children other than Sansa because we don't know if she ever developed her Warging. Arya has a pretty healthy love of dragons. If she stays in Essos I think she has a better chance than any of the other Starks. Bran and Jon Snow have a chance of dragon control if the dragons ever make their way to Westeros and then make it to the North. Don't think this will happen tho. 

Sweet Robin might have some Warging abilities that everyone seems to over look. Let me just say this, IT WOULD BE FUCKING AWESOME IF SWEET ROBIN BECAME A DRAGONRIDER.

I think the Dragons will eventually end up burning Kings Landing and hitting a hidden cache of wildfire and blowing up the city, the dragon and Dragon rider. What better Ironic situation is that that The Mother of Dragons blows up herself and her dragon trying to take back the the Iron Throne that was forged with dragons fire and all that awesome narrative metaphorical stuff. The dragons will be Dead or gone by the time they are truly needed to fight the Others. If the Dragons show up to the Fight with the "Ice Zombies" than its too easy for them to win good beats evil except the Dragons aren't good. They're suppose to be Nuclear weapons. People will become enlightened and not want war not want dragons not want to continue the fighting.   

That has never been done in the history of dragonriding. It's one dragon, per person, at a time. However, if it can be done, Dany is the one to do it. Per GRRM, dragonriders do not skinchange their dragons.

Not necessarily. I believe that hissing and spitting fire at a person are a dragon's way of claming who they want to ride them. If that's the case, Rhaegal wanted Quent to ride him. Quentyn just chose the wrong dragon is all.

I'm with you on this to an extent. I think it will have an effect, just not the one expected. I also think there's a chance that "claiming it in blood" might require killing the rightful owner...who I think would be Daenerys. That would be a fun twist because both Euron and Victarion are planning to use the dragonhorn and marry Dany. Having to kill her to get the horn to work would throw a huge monkey wrench into their plans.

Aegon is a definite possibility. And if someone else is the Blackfyre, Dany may offer Aegon a dragon so they can team up and take down the final pretender.

Tyrion is probably riding a dragon. At the very least he's going to help design and build dragonriding saddles. But there was nothing special about Joanna's blood. Her father was a Lannister and her mother was a Prester. She was beautiful and that's why both Tywin and Aerys wanted her.

Skinchanging (warging is only skinchanging wolves) does not seem to be a factor in dragonriding. But if anybody who has that ability could skinchange into a dragon--which I know is a far cry from riding one--my money is on Bloodraven. His power level is on par with Bran's and he's got a ton more experience. Plus being half Targaryen it would be a fitting second life for him. 

Where would he get them? House Arryn has no record of skinchanging, nor does House Tully (or House Baelish if you subscribe to the theory that he's really Littlefinger's son). The Stark kids have not only the possible Stark history of skinchanging, but a Blackwood a few generations back. Bloodraven's ability comes through his Blackwood mother. It's even been suggested that the Warg King who the Starks kicked out of the Wolfswood (killed his sons, slayed his beasts and greenseers, and took his daughters as prizes) went to the Riverlands and founded House Blackwood.

Well the vision in the HotU has her getting to KL after everything is burned. But we don't know if that's a true vision or not I suppose.

I don't think the dragons qualify as either good or bad. They are animals. Magical animals, but animals just the same. And I can realistically see at least two of them dying. Their fire would help against all the wights, but we don't know if they could kill Others or not. And regardless of whether they can kill Others, it's the source of the Others that needs to be taken out--that's something a dragon may or may not be any help with.