Cron

Current (updated) theories about 3 Heads of the Dragon

68 posts in this topic

17 hours ago, Ser Walter of AShwood said:

Lack of strategic expertise? He is the one that saved Kingslanding when it was attached by Stannis' forces (please check them memberberries).

Other than that, your arguments make perfect sense. I also believe that Tyrion could be the 3rd rider. Drogon for Dany, Rhaegal for Jon (riding on the dragon named after his father), and Tyrion on the white and gold Viserion.
 

Yeah, with respect, I'm gonna stand by my opinon that Tyrion has a lack of strategic expertise.

At the Battle of the Blackwater, Tyrion was basically a "one trick pony."  He had one trick:  Wildfire.  The End.  The fact that he stumbled upon the wlidfire (only after Cersei was already on to it, no less) and used it against Stannis and his forces hardly makes Tyrion a seasoned or experienced military commander.  He had one trick, and he used it.  Done.  Now everybody knows about the wildfire (or can easily access the information), and I have no reason to believe Tyrion could or will use it more effectively than anyone else, but even if he does, it's still just the wildfire stuff all over again.

Tyrion has virtually NO military background or experience.  He "fought" in two battles.  In the first one, he was accidentally knocked out by his own men before the fighting even started.  Then he pulled the wildfire trick at Blackwater, then fought a little, I guess, but was nearly killed, and would have been killed if it were not for Pod.

Tyrion knows virtually nothing about tactics, logistics, supplies, armies, movement, terrain, et cetera, stuff that is critical for a truly seasoned, well trained and experienced military commander to know.

In sum, Tyrion is NOT a military commander, and his one trick with the wildfire does not make him one.

Great stuff in your second paragraph about the dragons, especially the "gold" of Viserion (I never made that connection before).  

Some recent alleged leaks about Season 7 MIGHT affect your dragon riders theory, if they're true, but I'm pretty skeptical about most of the alleged leaks..  I won't go into details, though, cuz I'm not sure how you feel about spoilers, or even potential spoilers (or even, for that matter, whether you might already know all of that anyway)

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The dragon has three heads has nothing to do with Dragon riders. It is a symbolic reference to the fact that in order to defeat the others, the major three factions must come together which are:

1) Dany and her forces

2) Jon and his forces

3) The Lanisters and their forces.

These are the three heads of the dragons, mark my words.

Edited by Ice Spider

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Dany is without question one of the dragon riders.

I know a lot of people seem to think Jon and Tyrion will be the other two, but god I hope not, at least in Jon's case.

One is the simple fact that one man cannot be everything. It would be far too cliche, cheesy and just plain awful to make Jon a dragon rider + King in the North + strong courageous warrior + the prince that was promised/azor ahai, etc etc. it's too much. ASOIAF is a strong story about a series or events and a range of characters that had a key influence on the world, not just one. I still don't buy that Jon is the song of ice and fire - this series does not boil down to being about one persons destiny and I would be exceptionally disappointed in GRRM if he made it that way.

I do feel that Tyrion is a decent chance to become one, with either Bran (via warming) or Arya the third.

Why Arya? Her destiny was never to be an assassin. That was just a part of her journey, as was her time with the Hound and everything she learned from him. Arya is a warrior. Not in the sense of being super strong or intimidating on the battlefield like Brienne, but her inner strength, fierce determination and personality, along with her journey through the series. Arya wouldn't be afraid of the dragons and could bond with them quite quickly I believe. 

Also, if we consider her interactions with Tywin in season 2, she was visibly excited when talking about dragons and Visenya Targaryen with her valerian steel sword Dark Sister. Although far from a certainty, I definitely think there is still some chance Arya could ride one of the dragons.

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On 11/14/2016 at 0:43 AM, Ice Spider said:

The dragon has three heads has nothing to do with Dragon riders. It is a symbolic reference to the fact that in order to defeat the others, the major three factions must come together which are:

1) Dany and her forces

2) Jon and his forces

3) The Lanisters and their forces.

These are the three heads of the dragons, mark my words.

I think Cersi is leaning towards siding w/the Walkers from a character setup perspective.  She just blew up the Sept (hasn't had an faith in religion since her mother died). She's got an undead Body Guard already (by "mad scientist" trope).  She has stated anyone that isn't a Lannister is an enemy.  Given she has no kids to ground her I don't see her riding a Dragon unless it's undead.  I think her give a blank meter is broke and she's in scorched earth territory.

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On 11/10/2016 at 2:47 AM, Cron said:

Yeah, with respect, I'm gonna stand by my opinon that Tyrion has a lack of strategic expertise.

 

Tyrion has virtually NO military background or experience.  He "fought" in two battles.  In the first one, he was accidentally knocked out by his own men before the fighting even started.  Then he pulled the wildfire trick at Blackwater, then fought a little, I guess, but was nearly killed, and would have been killed if it were not for Pod.

Tyrion knows virtually nothing about tactics, logistics, supplies, armies, movement, terrain, et cetera, stuff that is critical for a truly seasoned, well trained and experienced military commander to know.

In sum, Tyrion is NOT a military commander, and his one trick with the wildfire does not make him one.

 

I agree that Tyrion is not a seasoned battlefield commander.  But I believe that he would and does do well with logistics and supplies and the like.  What did Olenna call him?  An overworked bookkeeper?  Just the type to keep an army supplied and fed.  

 

As I mentioned elsewhere, lack of battlefield experience or ability doesn't appear to have anything to do with being a dragon rider.  Dany herself is not a seasoned, veteran military commander, but she is a dragon rider.

 

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On 6/28/2016 at 9:53 AM, Cron said:

Good stuff here about Bran, but I strongly understood the 3 eyed raven to mean Bran would fly in the sense of warging into birds. (or I guess "skin changing," since I heard "warging" technically includes only a few specific animals, not positive if that's right, though)

You COULD be right about Bran, though.  Tyrion could design a saddle for him, as Tyrion designed a horse saddle for him in AGOT.

I understood the same as the bolded above.  Bran would warg into birds, especially crows/ravens.   Not dragons.

If Bran does warg a dragon, he wouldn't need a saddle.  He would  be that dragon.

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12 hours ago, Thror Baratheon said:

I agree that Tyrion is not a seasoned battlefield commander.  But I believe that he would and does do well with logistics and supplies and the like.  What did Olenna call him?  An overworked bookkeeper?  Just the type to keep an army supplied and fed.  

 

As I mentioned elsewhere, lack of battlefield experience or ability doesn't appear to have anything to do with being a dragon rider.  Dany herself is not a seasoned, veteran military commander, but she is a dragon rider.

 

Well, my memory of this conversation, and the context in which I made my comments, was that I think Tyrion WOULD be a good candidate as a dragon rider, cuz it would give him something to do in the last battle, whereas otherwise, he would be mostly useless.  So, not only was I not saying that battlefield experience and abilities were prerequisites for being a dragon rider, but actually, what I was saying depended on those things NOT being prerequisites.

Beyond that...sure, Tyrion easily has the mental capacity to not only handle logistics and supplies, but every other aspect of military leadership, too.   But (a) that's not who he is right now, and (b) I don't think any of that will come into play in the last battle anyway.   I could be wrong, but I don't think the last battle in GoT is going to be some long military campaign, fighting over every meter of ground for months or years.  No way.  I think it's going to be a "grand finale slugfest," in which Tyrion would be pretty much useless...unless he's a dragon rider (which also makes sense cuz we know he's had an almost lifelong fascination with dragons, and is VERY knowledgeable about them as well)

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13 hours ago, Thror Baratheon said:

I understood the same as the bolded above.  Bran would warg into birds, especially crows/ravens.   Not dragons.

Well, these possibilities are not mutually exclusive.  He could warg into birds AND dragons, and "fly" in both senses.

13 hours ago, Thror Baratheon said:

If Bran does warg a dragon, he wouldn't need a saddle.  He would  be that dragon.

Great point, at least for some circumstances.  Here's how I would phrase it " If Bran does warg a dragon, he wouldn't need a saddle for certain things."   You DO make a great point, that if Bran warged the dragon, he would not NEED to ride the dragon into battle, but I can think of reasons it could be helpful for him to do so anyway.  By having a rider on its back, the combination of dragon and rider would be more effective than a warged dragon alone (I could list hypotheticals, but frankly I don't feel like typing it all up right now), and there are other reasons the saddle would be good for Bran, too (for example, let's say the dragon assault is launched from King's Landing to a far distant location, and Bran is one of the dragon riders.  Well, okay, he's gonna need to get there, too, and/or there could be other reasons for Bran to need quick transportation via dragon flight)

But hey, you DID make a great point.  It's not NECESSARY for Bran to physically ride the dragon into battle, and in some situations a case could be made that it would actually be foolish for him to do so (cuz it may expose his physical body to unnecessary danger)

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