[Spoilers] Criticize Without Repercussion - one last time ;o)

[Lord Freypie]

2 minutes ago, LadyDoom said:

Am I the only one that thinks the killing of Pycelle was to make Qyburn the Grand Maester now? I know technically it's an atrocity to think this could ever happen, but it's the show so I wouldn't put it past them. 

Hmm... According to show inheritance law (tm), it's little bird #5 who should become Grand Maester I think.

[RhaenysBee]

Wtf is up with Sansa? What the hell is she doing? Is it bad writing? Is she still playing someone? Everyone? Is she supporting Jon? Is she having second thoughts about Littlefinger and his pretty picture?

So there are still northern forces? How? Robb Stark called the banners and basically nearly everybody who went to war with him died. Everybody who signed for the Boltons died last episode. Everybody with the exception of a couple hundred men who singed for Jonsa died last episode. 

It gets better. The north knows only one King and his name is stark! And it doesn't matter if his name is not Stark! Okay... Dude, like okay. Let's not give a single crap about laws of succession, it's not like anybody else does. 

And it gets better still. Queen Cersei 1st of her name. What? Why? How? Do the people of KL know that Cersei blew up the Sept of Baelor? I supposed they don't. But HOW? Based on what can this woman be crowned queen of Westeros? Do people still remember that shit about incest and fornication and murder? Shouldn't we be looking for a rightful heir to Robert Baratheon? Who backs her? A creepy scientist and one big guard? Are there still gold cloacks, or the crown has no armed forces? (If there are, why weren't they rallied to take up against the faith militant before?) What about succession? Does NOBODY ask these questions? 

What the fuck do the Sandsnakes want revenge for? Who will have justice for Doran and Trystane? The Tyrells are against the Lannisters who killed the Tyrells? You mean that ONE Tyrell left against that ONE Lannister left? Because Tyrion is in the fire and blood squad and Jaime had nothing to do with KL. What happens to House Tyrell? Nobody cares about succession again. 

Arya cooked Frey pies in the Frey castle full of Freys. 

Benjen leaves huge crippled teenage boy with no sledge or horse to the care of teenage girl in -30 degrees snowy wilderness. HOW the fuck is Bran supposed to live another week? 

Bran is the three eyed Raven now and the first thing he does is go back and find out what's in the tower. I mean that's what I do every time too when electricity goes out and I miss the last five episodes of the favorite soap opera too..........

Is Euron rowing somewhere with Gendry and Brienne and Pod? 

And let's be real, just because you take fan favorite book moments, put them in a blender and blend blend blend blend until they randomly end up in your script isn't going to make your script good. 

[KarlVyt]

White Wolf! Jon Snow is now Geralt of Rivia! Who better to slay  undead than a witcher.

[Red Tiger]

Just now, KarlVyt said:

White Wolf! Jon Snow is now Geralt of Rivia!

Only whereas white-haired Geralt lusts after a woman with black hair, Jon's a raven-haired dude who will end up with a white-haired one.

[LadyDoom]

1 minute ago, Lord Freypie said:

Hmm... According to show inheritance law (tm), it's little bird #5 who should become Grand Maester I think.

hmm wouldn't all of them be GM then? how can they know who delivered the finishing stab? 

[KarlVyt]

1 minute ago, Red Tiger said:

Only whereas white-haired Geralt lusts after a woman with black hair, Jon's a raven-haired dude who will end up with a white-haired one.

LOL.  They also both  did have sex with a readhead and split up with said redheads. And both have swords with a wolf pommel.

[Kingly]

The problem with this show and its success - and the reason why people 'like us' are relegated to one thread on one forum - comes down to one thing: Culture

I'm not trying to be snobbish, but I think that is the underlying factor relating to the (financial and critical) success of GoT. There is a reason why this show - along with movies such as the Transformers and most super hero movies - still has such a huge following and makes a ton of money. People aren't willing to see deep, well thought out media with strong realistic characters and a straight forward (read; non-convoluted) yet intricate plot (boring!). They would prefer to take the familiar route which is why popularity breeds popularity; it is 100% style over substance.

On one hand, audiences are simply not critical of the media they consume, whether it be film or television. They - for the most part - just like to take in the spectacle: Cool and "badass" characters, womenontop™, mind numbing action, stiff one liners meant to sound awesome, etc. For the most part, they don't think critically regarding character consistency, internal logic and dialogue, let alone technical aspects such as sound composition, shot framing, editing, etc. As long as cool stuff happens and the characters they root for do awesome stuff and the characters they hate do villainous things, they will shove popcorn into their mouths and enjoy the ride.

On the other hand, the mainstream media is a huge culprit, as they have literally become ass-kissers and just suck up to the newest fad. Everywhere you see articles written about the show, the level of (non)analysis is only worthy of cringe. TV isn't any better, as interviews on places such as talk shows all focus on how cool and awesome a certain character/scene is and are basically glorified advertisements. It has been like this forever and goes back to what the audience wants: a re-confirmation of how awesome what they just saw, was.

If this isn't the dumbing down of culture I don't know what is...

[LadyDoom]

4 minutes ago, RhaeBee said:

...

Arya cooked Frey pies in the Frey castle full of Freys. 

shhh you're not allowed to point that out. 

[Red Tiger]

Just now, KarlVyt said:

LOL.  They also both  did have sex with a readhead and split up with said redheads. And both have swords with a wolf pommel.

Strangely neither Dany or Jon ever had to deal with Charles Dance, Geralt and Yen did.

[Nami]

8 minutes ago, KarlVyt said:

White Wolf! Jon Snow is now Geralt of Rivia! Who better to slay  undead than a witcher.

omg!

[Jojosh]

Arya is all mixed up as a character now 

Obviously she is a killer but frey pies on top of killing walder like that is over the top

[KarlVyt]

2 minutes ago, Red Tiger said:

Strangely neither Dany or Jon ever had to deal with Charles Dance, Geralt and Yen did.

Hmmm....Both Jon and Geralt have  fought otherworldly creatures with powers of ice(Others, Wild Hunt). Both were resurrected by women with magical power(Ciri and Melisandre),Both were allied with a bard(Dandilion and Mance)...I tell you the similarities are there.

[LadyDoom]

1 minute ago, Kingly said:

The problem with this show and its success - and the reason why people 'like us' are relegated to one thread on one forum - comes down to one thing: Culture

I'm not trying to be snobbish, but I think that is the underlying factor relating to the (financial and critical) success of GoT. There is a reason why this show - along with movies such as the Transformers and most super hero movies - still has such a huge following and makes a ton of money. People aren't willing to see deep, well thought out media with strong realistic characters and a straight forward (read; non-convoluted) yet intricate plot (boring!). They would prefer to take the familiar route which is why popularity breeds popularity; it is 100% style over substance.

On one hand, audiences are simply not critical of the media they consume, whether it be film or television. They - for the most part - just like to take in the spectacle: Cool and "badass" characters, womenontop™, mind numbing action, stiff one liners meant to sound awesome, etc. For the most part, they don't think critically regarding character consistency, internal logic and dialogue, let alone technical aspects such as sound composition, shot framing, editing, etc. As long as cool stuff happens and the characters they root for do awesome stuff and the characters they hate do villainous things, they will shove popcorn into their mouths and enjoy the ride.

On the other hand, the mainstream media is a huge culprit, as they have literally become ass-kissers and just suck up to the newest fad. Everywhere you see articles written about the show, the level of (non)analysis is only worthy of cringe. TV isn't any better, as interviews on places such as talk shows all focus on how cool and awesome a certain character/scene is and are basically glorified advertisements. It has been like this forever and goes back to what the audience wants: a re-confirmation of how awesome what they just saw, was.

If this isn't the dumbing down of culture I don't know what is...

There's a lot of truth to that, having said that, I enjoy no brainers and I don't think there's anything wrong with people enjoying it either. 

The problem to me is that people give GoT too much credit as something other than a no brainer, it started out as something that was more than that, and it got praised by that, it was what drew everyone in including me who had no idea about the books until I saw the first 2 seasons. 

But after it started to decline in quality people just refused to admit it, they accepted the transition between political intrigue realistic show to hollywood explosions and sex and shock and deaths and "badass" characters with no complaint. 

I would be fine with that if at least people were honest and admitted what the show is now and didn't pretend they are still watching quality tv. 

 

[Ser Quork]

36 minutes ago, Winter_Is_Coming21 said:

I want Jon to be a STARK.. So my theory COULD BE biased somehow..

1. In books why is Ned constantly tormented by "Promise me, Ned", if he's kept that promise so perfectly for these many years?   I fail to understand this. My guess - He failed unknowingly only a few minutes before Lyanna asked him that promise. On show Lyanna says "...If Robert finds out he will kill him, you know he will... You have to protect him.. Promise me, Ned." I think here by 'him' she means Arthur Dayne. He+Howland Reed killed him below just minutes before! He simply won't tell her this tragic incident at her death-bed. That is why he is haunted by "Promise me, Ned" all the time.

2. This child Lyanna gave birth to in my opinion is Meera. http://awoiaf.westeros.org gives her birth year as 283 AC.  I don't have answers for following Questions though - Did Rhaegar as his best friend helped Arthur to run away with Lyanna? Is Lyanna's pregnancy why AD & other two KGs were there at TOJ? Why wouldn't Arthur tell Ned the whole thing before the TOJ fight even began? What is the colour of Arthur Dayne's eyes? Because Meera is definitely Green eyed & Lyanna was Grey.

3. Howland Reed took Meera with him to Greywater Watch & raised her as his daughter (he is in debt to Lyanna because Harrenhal tourney incident). Nobody can know a Kingsguard (that too an honourable knight like The Sword in The Morning) fathered a child! (Are they married? No idea!) It would be a disgrace to House Dayne & their honour.

4. Why is Ned so worried about honour of House Dayne? Ans. 1. Memory of Lyanna & her love interest 2. His own love interest!

5. Now we come to Ned's love interest. He & Ashara loved each other. Before Brandon Stark was killed Ned might have promised her a marriage & even gotten her pregnant. Their child is Jon & as per www.awoiaf.westeros.org his birth year is also 283 AC. My guess is that all these four; Stark & Dayne brother-sisters might have been close to each other/at same location right before Brandon & Rickard Stark's murders, & their love bloomed there. 

6. Now after Brandon's death as a law/tradition Ned has to marry Catlyn Tully for the honour of his house & House Tully. But what about Ashara, her child without a marriage? She couldn't bear her disgrace & a loss of Ned. Commits suicide. Ned had to take his+her child back home to protect the honour of Ashara & House Dayne. But why wouldn't he tell Cat about Jon after so many years? What about Wylla & other Dayne family members not knowing about Ashara's child? I have no answer.

7. His & Lyanna's relations with Arthur & Ashara quite explains why he had to ride to Starfall to return Dawn.

8. In books Ned is constantly feeling guilty about many 'lies' & 'failed promises'.. Above are some of them.  

9. Ned is a honourable guy. But bad circumstances (bad but non-political like Love & marriage) are making him protect the honour of not only house Stark but Dayne & Tully as well.

10. Reference to the Blue flower/rose growing from the chink of the ice wall - If i am not mistaken, the time-frame of this vision & the crossing of the Bran & co. is somewhat same. Can this be a reference to Meera instead of Jon?

What do you guys think? Please comment on this write-up. As i said, this can be totally biased view because i want Jon to be a Stark! Plus i am new to the books. It's just my first re-reading!! No offense intended to R+L=J staunch supporters & old readers!!

My own shiny tinfoil is that the promise was to tell Jon about his heritage and put him on the throne.  Ned broke that promise and chose to keep Jon safe instead, at the expense of his honour in every way.

29 minutes ago, LadyDoom said:

I think the explanation to his torment is possibly the theory that Lyanna didn't really elope for love, at least not only but for she believed Rhaegar's prophecies and wants Jon to be seen as the prince he is. She probably wanted Ned to support this at some point in time, which would mean Robert would become his enemy. I think Ned didn't buy the whole prophecy thing and knew it would bring a war to a kingdom that had just gotten out of one and chose to remain Jon's identity a secret, which haunts him for he broke his promise to Lyanna, lied to Cat and denied Jon the truth about his parents and his birthright. 

 

Similar to this.

I thought that - long-term - Jon isn't destined for the throne but to fight the Others and probably to die doing so (and I think his being resurrected confirmed that for me). Of course, I could be completely wrong.

[The Scabbard Of the Morning]

2 minutes ago, LadyDoom said:

There's a lot of truth to that, having said that, I enjoy no brainers and I don't think there's anything wrong with people enjoying it either. 

The problem to me is that people give GoT too much credit as something other than a no brainer, it started out as something that was more than that, and it got praised by that, it was what drew everyone in including me who had no idea about the books until I saw the first 2 seasons. 

But after it started to decline in quality people just refused to admit it, they accepted the transition between political intrigue realistic show to hollywood explosions and sex and shock and deaths and "badass" characters with no complaint. 

I would be fine with that if at least people were honest and admitted what the show is now and didn't pretend they are still watching quality tv. 

 

Exactly, GOT is Transformers now, but its fans want to pretend they're watching something deep and meaningful. That where really a lot of salt comes from.

 

[Ser Quork]

5 minutes ago, LadyDoom said:

There's a lot of truth to that, having said that, I enjoy no brainers and I don't think there's anything wrong with people enjoying it either. 

The problem to me is that people give GoT too much credit as something other than a no brainer, it started out as something that was more than that, and it got praised by that, it was what drew everyone in including me who had no idea about the books until I saw the first 2 seasons. 

But after it started to decline in quality people just refused to admit it, they accepted the transition between political intrigue realistic show to hollywood explosions and sex and shock and deaths and "badass" characters with no complaint. 

I would be fine with that if at least people were honest and admitted what the show is now and didn't pretend they are still watching quality tv. 

 

 

[Terekhov]

10 minutes ago, LadyDoom said:

There's a lot of truth to that, having said that, I enjoy no brainers and I don't think there's anything wrong with people enjoying it either. 

The problem to me is that people give GoT too much credit as something other than a no brainer, it started out as something that was more than that, and it got praised by that, it was what drew everyone in including me who had no idea about the books until I saw the first 2 seasons. 

But after it started to decline in quality people just refused to admit it, they accepted the transition between political intrigue realistic show to hollywood explosions and sex and shock and deaths and "badass" characters with no complaint. 

I would be fine with that if at least people were honest and admitted what the show is now and didn't pretend they are still watching quality tv. 

 

It's a fun watch as long as you view it with that attitude. 

[Ser Morbid]

This is how it feels after this season (just imagine Indiana Jones is book reader and Lucas and Spielberg is D&D)

 

[Daenerys_Is_Coming]

7 hours ago, Mindwalker said:

 

The North:

Davos needs his own category of disgusting. Biggest hyppocrite ever. I hate him alsmost as much as Tyrion now. Self-righteous bastard. (Yeah, but how do I really feel?) Run, Lyanna Mormont, RUN! Don't  let him befriend and father you

Nice pro Jon  speech, Lyanna. It's his manbun, isn't it?  I mean, it can't have been his military strategy... And he's a Snow, not a Stark... Of course, she is 10 years old. Unlike the lords who all declare for him, too. Strangely, neither Sandra nor Jon seem to remember Bran... You know, the Stark boy they know may still be alive.
Oh, and... SHUT UP DAVOS!

 

Fabulous post and I agree with so much of what you said, but why the hate on Davos? Just genuinely curious. I agree that he pissed me off when Melisandre originally returned to the wall and he asked "Where Is Shireen?" and she was all like ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ and then Davos is all like ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

So yeah, that and his new unexplained bromance with Jon Snow really bothered me this season...but how is he a hypocrite/self-righteous bastard?

[Kingly]

12 minutes ago, LadyDoom said:

There's a lot of truth to that, having said that, I enjoy no brainers and I don't think there's anything wrong with people enjoying it either. 

The problem to me is that people give GoT too much credit as something other than a no brainer, it started out as something that was more than that, and it got praised by that, it was what drew everyone in including me who had no idea about the books until I saw the first 2 seasons. 

But after it started to decline in quality people just refused to admit it, they accepted the transition between political intrigue realistic show to hollywood explosions and sex and shock and deaths and "badass" characters with no complaint. 

I would be fine with that if at least people were honest and admitted what the show is now and didn't pretend they are still watching quality tv. 

 

Yes you are right, don't get me wrong I also enjoy no-brainers and I do think they have their place for what they are. But what I meant to also say was exactly what you elaborated on, that movies like the transformers series or the expendables are taken at face value for what they are: big dumb action movies with explosions. They don't feature intricate plots or complex characters and aren't meant to, and as such they can be enjoyed for exactly what they are providing and it is reflected in peoples' opinions as well as reviewers.

But somehow GoT has gotten away with being just as "dumb" (recently) as these types of films and yet is lauded as some kind of artistic masterpiece.