The Ned's Little Girl Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 1 hour ago, SerMixalot said: I have a major issue with the whole “bad ass” definition in general. I don’t think random violence, revenge fantasies, snarkiness is something cool or mature or whatever. In this case I am assuming that “bad ass” is taken as a positive in terms of many GoT characters. Specifically, I refer to actions like Faullaria and the Sand Worms “taking back” what is theirs-it wasn’t theirs it never was. Their actions in every sense of the word were evil. I am referring to Sansa’s actions this season relative to Jon. It is not “bad ass” to not trust your siblings and to endanger them and many other people due to that mistrust. That is emblematic of a person with serious flaws. I am referring to Lyanna Mormont giving epic yet inconsistent (and hypocritical) speeches. It is not “bad ass” to act immorally to kill without remorse people who have not harmed you-Sandor, Cersei, Dany, Brienne, etal. Acting like, speaking like, being treated like you are some Gift, when you do nothing but drink and spout silly obvious notions-these actions do not make you an intriguing or likable character, they make you an insufferable arrogant fool. These traits are not positive, these characters are vile, arrogant, despicable and delusional. Spot on! This, to me, also goes to the argument that people make about it being "just a TV show" and that it shouldn't be taken so seriously. How do people imagine that vileness gets perpetuated, if not by dressing it up in a flashy package that distracts from and camouflages its basic vileness? This show is a nearly-perfect example of how it lowers standards of civilized behavior and it happens to most people subconsciously because they're specifically not thinking about the messages it is sending. It brings to mind that great quote from the movie Broadcast News: What do you think the Devil is going to look like if he's around? ... Nobody is going to be taken in by a guy with a long, red, pointy tail! ... He will be attractive! He'll be nice and helpful. He'll get a job where he influences a great God-fearing nation. He'll never do an evil thing! He'll never deliberately hurt a living thing. He will just bit by little bit lower our standards where they are important. Just a tiny little bit. Just coax along, flash over substance. Just a tiny little bit. This show is so vile, it normalizes aberrant behavior, it celebrates thoughtless violence and nihilism - and I'm still stunned that so few people recognize that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissdbyfire Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 2 minutes ago, Cas Stark said: I actually liked the KL set up with the piano, though I don't think it was to create suspense so much as foreboding. But, I wonder why of all the things...Cersei blowing up the sept...they chose that to be totally telegraphed for several seasons? It could have been done in a subtle way so that most people would have been shocked...the way they did it, only the dumbest viewer didn't expect her to burn something to the ground. They cannot do foreshadowing for shit. Marg figuring it all out but being unable to save herself or anyone due to High Cobbler Religion!! Patriarchy!! was more fan service, Dormer service and faux feminism service. Ugh, I didn't like the music! I mean, I didn't dislike the music per se but just thought it was a poor choice for that scene. I don't know, it just felt very off, and for some reason it made me think of advert for adult nappies... where you'd see a senior citizen enjoying life to the fullest now that they're not leaking anymore. And yeah, I think you're right about the foreboding but there should be tension/suspense as well, and there wasn't any. As to the foreshadowing, or their brand of foreshadowing - which is anything but - and the SHOCKS they're so fond of, the main problem imo is the fact that they're mediocre and lazy writers. That's why the show feels so disjointed at times, because they go for one thing and get another (and usually the opposite of what they were going for). And the pacing is off throughout, not just the episode but last few seasons. The show drags and rushes through simultaneously, which has got to be some sort of "special" achievement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wull Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 51 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said: Ugh, I didn't like the music! I mean, I didn't dislike the music per se but just thought it was a poor choice for that scene. I don't know, it just felt very off, and for some reason it made me think of advert for adult nappies... where you'd see a senior citizen enjoying life to the fullest now that they're not leaking anymore. And yeah, I think you're right about the foreboding but there should be tension/suspense as well, and there wasn't any. As to the foreshadowing, or their brand of foreshadowing - which is anything but - and the SHOCKS they're so fond of, the main problem imo is the fact that they're mediocre and lazy writers. That's why the show feels so disjointed at times, because they go for one thing and get another (and usually the opposite of what they were going for). And the pacing is off throughout, not just the episode but last few seasons. The show drags and rushes through simultaneously, which has got to be some sort of "special" achievement. I think part of it is that we already all knew what was coming from a mile away. They're trying to build up tension, but we don't really care for the characters anyway, and we know it's all ultimately pointless whether Loras admits to being a terrible person for being gay or not. It went on for a really long time, and personally, I don't really think watching various people get dressed is that dramatically satisfying. Mostly it all comes down to this - they haven't managed to truly shock us (with the plot, not how bad the show is) ever. We've predicted literally every single thing they've done, because it's obvious and ham-fisted. When you see things coming from a season or two away, the final reveal will always seem a little disappointing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philokles Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 I thought it was a nice piece of music, but it was out of place. Too modern, minimalist and the wrong instrument for its setting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Loin Steak Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 Everything is incredible contrived. A small example is rolling Loras' trial into the same day as Cersei's, in universe why do the Faith do that? He was already completely broken the only time we saw him prior to the finale this season. Instead, we're meant to believe that the Faith kept him prisoner for months on end for basically no reason (let alone the absurdity of the charges against him and Marg to begin with), which only served to increase the risk of reprisal by the ruling class. That in turn required the Small Council, and the Tyrells especially, to be complete morons and do nothing about the situation for months as well. Then when they finally did realise that they could use force, they write this completely illogical part where Marg is somehow playing the HS so she get's them to back down (the finale confirmed her scheme was idiotic and achieved nothing). This is to say nothing of the smallfolk going from loving the Tyrells to apparently being cool with the Faith Militant's reign of terror. I've said it before and I'll say it again, they pick an endpoint they want then they warp the story and characters to get there, no matter what. It's the polar opposite of how GRRM writes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperMario Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 14 minutes ago, The Wull said: I think part of it is that we already all knew what was coming from a mile away. They're trying to build up tension, but we don't really care for the characters anyway, and we know it's all ultimately pointless whether Loras admits to being a terrible person for being gay or not. It went on for a really long time, and personally, I don't really think watching various people get dressed is that dramatically satisfying. Mostly it all comes down to this - they haven't managed to truly shock us (with the plot, not how bad the show is) ever. We've predicted literally every single thing they've done, because it's obvious and ham-fisted. When you see things coming from a season or two away, the final reveal will always seem a little disappointing. When your shocks are not shocking, you ultimately are left with overly telegraphed chaos and violence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissdbyfire Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 21 minutes ago, Sir Loin Steak said: Everything is incredible contrived. A small example is rolling Loras' trial into the same day as Cersei's, in universe why do the Faith do that? He was already completely broken the only time we saw him prior to the finale this season. Instead, we're meant to believe that the Faith kept him prisoner for months on end for basically no reason (let alone the absurdity of the charges against him and Marg to begin with), which only served to increase the risk of reprisal by the ruling class. That in turn required the Small Council, and the Tyrells especially, to be complete morons and do nothing about the situation for months as well. Then when they finally did realise that they could use force, they write this completely illogical part where Marg is somehow playing the HS so she get's them to back down (the finale confirmed her scheme was idiotic and achieved nothing). This is to say nothing of the smallfolk going from loving the Tyrells to apparently being cool with the Faith Militant's reign of terror. I've said it before and I'll say it again, they pick an endpoint they want then they warp the story and characters to get there, no matter what. It's the polar opposite of how GRRM writes. Yup, agree wholeheartedly. They have THE EVENT they want to depict, and they work backwards from said event, and it shows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Knight in Motley Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 6 hours ago, Cas Stark said: I'm just sick of Baby Mormont. Nothing wrong w/the actress but she's all fan service too. Oh look, a little girl! And she's sassy! ? Been there/done that. Sums up how I feel as well. Its like they realized they had to kill off Olly but needed a sassy kid in the show for some arcane reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SerMixalot Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 1 hour ago, The Ned's Little Girl said: Spot on! This, to me, also goes to the argument that people make about it being "just a TV show" and that it shouldn't be taken so seriously. How do people imagine that vileness gets perpetuated, if not by dressing it up in a flashy package that distracts from and camouflages its basic vileness? This show is a nearly-perfect example of how it lowers standards of civilized behavior and it happens to most people subconsciously because they're specifically not thinking about the messages it is sending. It brings to mind that great quote from the movie Broadcast News: This show is so vile, it normalizes aberrant behavior, it celebrates thoughtless violence and nihilism - and I'm still stunned that so few people recognize that. I love Broadcast News! I think I will watch it again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SerMixalot Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 1 hour ago, The Ned's Little Girl said: Spot on! This, to me, also goes to the argument that people make about it being "just a TV show" and that it shouldn't be taken so seriously. How do people imagine that vileness gets perpetuated, if not by dressing it up in a flashy package that distracts from and camouflages its basic vileness? This show is a nearly-perfect example of how it lowers standards of civilized behavior and it happens to most people subconsciously because they're specifically not thinking about the messages it is sending. It brings to mind that great quote from the movie Broadcast News: This show is so vile, it normalizes aberrant behavior, it celebrates thoughtless violence and nihilism - and I'm still stunned that so few people recognize that. And I don't advocate NOT showing violence and nudity and swearing and all, quite the opposite, and I don't have a problem with villains "winning" I am all for deep and meaningful characterization. I have a problem with people thinking these are the attributes of a hero. I am reminded of my reactions to two scenes in now classic movies-both involved Harrison Ford BTW First is his shooting Greedo 1st and the 2nd in him shooting the guy with the sword in RotLA. Both are drastic actions that a hero shouldn't take-the 1st making Han Solo a definite gray character, the 2nd is more troubling because Indiana Jones is supposed to be heroic. Him shooting a killing a guy like that goes against the notion that the good guy fights fair. Its interesting that Lucas went back and revised the Han Solo shooting 1st and the 2nd scene resulted from Harrison Ford being sick and not being able to do the stunt work the day of shooting, so they just went with a cold blooded act. Subtle cultural shift Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperMario Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 25 minutes ago, Sir Loin Steak said: Everything is incredible contrived. A small example is rolling Loras' trial into the same day as Cersei's, in universe why do the Faith do that? He was already completely broken the only time we saw him prior to the finale this season. Instead, we're meant to believe that the Faith kept him prisoner for months on end for basically no reason (let alone the absurdity of the charges against him and Marg to begin with), which only served to increase the risk of reprisal by the ruling class. That in turn required the Small Council, and the Tyrells especially, to be complete morons and do nothing about the situation for months as well. Then when they finally did realise that they could use force, they write this completely illogical part where Marg is somehow playing the HS so she get's them to back down (the finale confirmed her scheme was idiotic and achieved nothing). This is to say nothing of the smallfolk going from loving the Tyrells to apparently being cool with the Faith Militant's reign of terror. I've said it before and I'll say it again, they pick an endpoint they want then they warp the story and characters to get there, no matter what. It's the polar opposite of how GRRM writes. Agree wholeheartedly. Well said. Someone else, can't remember who, said they probably write Episode 9 first and then work outwards from there. While some writers, GRRM included, do have scenes and big events already planned, for the most part, you start with an idea and it develops from there. If I remember correctly, GRRM said his first idea about ASOIAF was just about a child or people stumbling upon dire wolf pups in the forest, which in turn became the first chapter in AGOT. Basically most authors plant a seed and watch it bloom and develop into something huge. The small acorn becomes the mighty oak. D&D, on the other hand, walk up to the biggest oak with a chainsaw and just cut the fucker down and the aftermath is the rest of the storyline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tijgy Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 2 hours ago, kissdbyfire said: Ugh, I didn't like the music! I mean, I didn't dislike the music per se but just thought it was a poor choice for that scene. I don't know, it just felt very off, and for some reason it made me think of advert for adult nappies... where you'd see a senior citizen enjoying life to the fullest now that they're not leaking anymore. You mean the piano, ... right? I actually did like it (but then I did play the piano once). It just though the whole sequence was too long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissdbyfire Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 Just now, Tijgy said: You mean the piano, ... right? I actually did like it (but then I did play the piano once). It just though the whole sequence was too long. Yup. But it's like I said, I didn't dislike the actual music, just thought it was a poor fit in that scene, it felt very off to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tijgy Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 21 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said: Yup. But it's like I said, I didn't dislike the actual music, just thought it was a poor fit in that scene, it felt very off to me. I did a rewatch of those scenes. And maybe it is because I just watch the scenes and not the entire episode, but I do like the piano and the cello (it is a cello right?) and I am not really sure which other instruments he could have chosen. What I did not like were the vocals and the organ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ambi76 Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 Quote Marg figuring it all out but being unable to save herself or anyone due to High Cobbler Religion!! Patriarchy!! was more fan service, Dormer service and faux feminism service. That's the thing though: All she had to do was fucking leave with Pa and Granny before that stupid kangaroo-faith-court. Sorry Loras, but ... yeah, your show version is not worth house extinction and Cersei will totally make it stop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tijgy Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 Maybe it might have been better if he had chosen to use the organ and vocals from the beginning instead just of piano. But I do think the organ and the vocals are much heavier (if that is the right term). - I am getting inspiration of Angels and Demons (which was very good work of Hans Zimmer IMO) EDIT: Angels and Demons is also about an attempt to explode a religious building and killing people of a certain church Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Loin Steak Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 4 minutes ago, Tijgy said: I did a rewatch of those scenes. And maybe it is because I just watch the scenes and not the entire episode, but I do like the piano and the cello (it is a cello right?) and I am not really sure which other instruments he could have chosen. What I did not like were the vocals and the organ. Theremin! It would really underscore the jarring transformation of Carol into Cheryl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airemyn Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 Oh my god, I'm laughing so hard I can't breathe. Sorry if someone has posted this already, but this woman is hilarious. I think she writes the regular reviews for the show and they are brilliant too. Salty as fuck. "Season 7, Episode 1: Sansa and Jon Snow wake up next to each other in their dead parents’ bed. “Hullo, Sansa,” says Jon Snow. They shake hands. None of this is ever addressed again." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tijgy Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 38 minutes ago, Sir Loin Steak said: Theremin! It would really underscore the jarring transformation of Carol into Cheryl. It would certainly something special Anyway I think Hans Zimmer also uses piano (and springs) next to vocal (choirs) and organ in Angels and Demons. Maybe we will have as commentary for episode 10: the music is here a nod to Angels and Demons. http://deadline.com/2016/06/game-of-thrones-season-6-finale-david-benioff-d-b-weiss-hbo-1201780242/ More animal hate by Weiss & Benioff BENIOFF: The hardest part is the horses. They make everything difficult and more complicated. They’re dangerous to themselves and the people around them, and they have their own minds and don’t take direction as well as people do. WEISS: Or dragons. And those wolfs are probably even more annoying than the horses. WEISS: Going back to the killing by Arya of Walder Frey, there’s an echo there from earlier in the series when Bran Stark told the story of the Rat Cook, who baked his enemies into a pie. It was clearly a call back from there. DEADLINE: You subtly telegraphed that? WEISS: Three years ago. Yeah. What? Is that the only thing they remembered? It is not just the fact people baking their enemies in a pie. Bran, can you tell again what this story is about? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWFeamtjHJE (Summer ) Thank you, Bran. At least you know still a little about Northern Legends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetsunray Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 14 minutes ago, Airemyn said: Oh my god, I'm laughing so hard I can't breathe. Sorry if someone has posted this already, but this woman is hilarious. I think she writes the regular reviews for the show and they are brilliant too. Salty as fuck. "Season 7, Episode 1: Sansa and Jon Snow wake up next to each other in their dead parents’ bed. “Hullo, Sansa,” says Jon Snow. They shake hands. None of this is ever addressed again." that was indeed hilarious... especially with every episode line... Bran is in a forest. He's unconscious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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