[Spoilers] Rant & Rave without Repercussions - First We Take King's Landing Edition

[Meera of Tarth]

oh and I have another rant: Max Von Sydow didn't win as a guest actor!

Who else could have been a better 3-Eyed with such a few lines, and almost no characterization as the 3-Eyed from the books?

I think he did an amazing job with what he had:

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 It's beautiful beneath the sea, but if you stay too long, you drown. 
 I wasn't drowning. I was home 

 

[Le Cygne]

The Emmys are in the HBO swag bag. Game of Thrones will win just about every award from now on. Even the writing award for the culmination of two seasons of I Spit On Your Grave rape and revenge exploitation.

Also, here's an article explaining ("The expanded voting pool has basically turned the Emmys into a glorified People's Choice Awards"):

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You know that moment when you realize something inevitable is about to happen and you just have to sit there and accept it? You're like, "Oh, sh--," and time kind of slows down for a second? It happened to me during the Emmys last year...

This was supposed to be Jonathan Banks' to lose for his heartbreaking performance in Better Call Saul's Mike showcase "Five-O." When Davis opened the envelope and her mouth, she started formulating a consonant that sounds nothing like a "J": "Peter Dinklage, Game of Thrones." I was in the backstage press tent and a collective, audible gasp-groan filled the room. There was an additional "Oh, no" from someone nearby. The guy next to me angrily but respectfully slammed the table. Not kidding.

I was prepared for Game of Thrones' eventual and first-ever drama series win, but Dinklage's win confirmed what I was probably in subconscious denial about: Game of Thrones will now win all the Emmys until Game of Thrones is over... Which is great for the show and HBO, but ironic for what is universally accepted as Thrones' weakest season. So why did this happen -- and why will it continue to happen? The new voting system. I broke down the whole voting process here, but the gist is this: Last year, the Television Academy opened up voting...

The expanded voting pool has basically turned the Emmys into a glorified People's Choice Awards. What's the biggest show on TV? Exactly. What was everyone talking about last summer during the voting period? Hint: Rhymes with Shmon Shmoe.

Under the new system, voters are still supposed to watch all the submitted episodes. But they probably haven't/don't... So what's the inclination? You vote for what you like, what you watch, what you recognize, what you hear about, and your friends. This system puts a premium on popularity instead of quality...

Even Dinklage, who was barely in Season 5, looked sort of embarrassed and more or less said in his speech that it should've gone to Banks. David Benioff and D.B. Weiss' writing win for "Mother's Mercy"? That finale was a collection of OMG scenes threaded by lazy storytelling. And it beat out cohesive, arguably better-written episodes from The Americans, Better Call Saul and Mad Men x 2. And the series win? It was coming after the rule change, but any true fan knows the first four seasons were better and more deserving...

The old system was by no means perfect, and I'm not suggesting that people didn't vote for their friends or based on buzz or name recognition then (Emmy voter laziness is second only to Screen Actors Guild Awards voter laziness). But the limited pool tape system required due diligence and gave the underdog a fighting chance if and when voters truly judged the submitted work in front of them...

Earlier this year, the TV Academy tweaked its voting guidelines again. Instead of ranking choices 1 through however-many-nominees-there-are-in-the-category, voters now just have to vote for their preferred winner. That'll make it even easier for mindless name-checking and populist favorites to win regardless of quality... unless members start to take their voting privileges seriously. Otherwise the Emmys will just be a popularity contest from here on out, and that'll be a real shame.

http://www.tvguide.com/news/game-of-thrones-will-dominate-emmys-until-it-ends/

[Meera of Tarth]

27 minutes ago, Ruhail said:

Oh god I just checked and Harrington is up against - johnathan Banks, Jon Voight, Michael Kelly and Ben Mendelsohn. In any sane world he would lose to any of them in a heartbeat ugh

Yes, in a sane world they should win.....but there's Tyrion there who will beat them all

People will always remember Dinklage winning for his Tyrion's cock and drinking jokes in 2016.

The worst is that the showrunners will think this is good stuff because....it wins

[Tijgy]

I just read this analysis which addresses why D&D are bad writers

 

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A testament to D&D’s bad writing skills is the amount of storylines and plot devices they createby accident. This week emphasized how they have so little idea what they’re doing on their own show, that two whole storylines have just become the complete opposite of what they are supposed to be. Not just in the books, but the opposite of what they themselves are trying to do with the story. 

Last season, they had Cersei & Jaime’s sept scene. The common reception of that scene was as a rape scene. It was widely criticized for it’s use of rape as a simple plot-device with little ascribed in-world consequence. There were some who defended it, as well, as showcasing Jaime and Cersei’s problematic relationship, and of course the regular cries of “that’s just how it was back then”. But on one thing there was no argument - it was a rape. Not in D&D&Bryan Cogman’s view, though. They kept insisting that it wasn’t rape, it was never even meant to be rape, in any way. But the fact remains that an overwhelming number of your viewing is completely 100% certain they did just watch a rape scene. So what do you have here? An accidental rape scene. This is just the hallmark of bad writing, how do you manage to accidentally write the rape of one of your major character by another major character?

But it didn’t stop in season 4, oh no. This season it only got worse, only that it took me until episode 9 to fully realize the consequences. First you get Dorne. By the conclusion of that disappointing storyline, I can see they wrote in another accidental storyline: this time, accidental sitcom. It starts off with Ellaria with a ridiculous accent threatening to do all sort of crazy stuff to Myrcella, continues with Jaime going on a wacky road-trip with Bronn where they just end up being totally hilarious with each other and doing all sorts of crazy shenanigans (did you see how that Dornishman swung his sword and Jaime stopped it with his golden hand?! You didn’t see that coming! hilarious!). Next up, we have a fight scene so lame and undeserved it’s practically slapstick (if you listen closely you can hear the Benny Hill theme in the background), which hopefully ends with no serious casualties, because otherwise this wouldn’t be a sitcom. Did I mention it also looked like a low-budget sitcom that was forced to borrow its periodic costumes from the local drama club? Next in this hilarious storyline that’s all about fighting and fucking, we have that completely unnecessary scene with confused-Tyene and Bronn and the boner-induced poison. It was so unnecessary to the narrative that it only makes sense if you imagine it as a part of a sitcom meant for cheap laughs. And at the end, we get a peaceful resolution, where everyone realizes it was all just a big misunderstanding, and all goes back to normal just like in every good sitcom (not without the Tyene and Nym - or was it Obara? I can’t tell them apart - scene or Bronn getting punched, again just slapstick comedy, no better than you would expect). Even Ellaria’s dramatic moment of defiance, pouring the wine to the floor, felt more comic than dramatic.

So what did we learn here? Well, sometimes one’s writing is so awful, it ends up in a completely different genre altogether. But in retrospect, it was actually to be quite expected, after all it doesn’t seem like they’re building Doran up for anything, he’s no longer scheming but on such a low profile he’s practically unnoticeable, and neither are the Sand Snakes - they’re just there to make trouble. Jaime’s detour was just that - a detour. After it, he’s just going to land right back in his storyline where he left off. Essentially that means - and this is another going problem with Game of Thrones as an adaptation, plotlines are dramatically changed but still end up in the same spot as the books, just with a warped logic of how they got there - that the whole Dorne plotline was a diversion, a filler, because D&D needed Jaime out of King’s Landing but couldn’t be bothered to adapt his actual arc, so they needed something that looks entertaining, but doesn’t affect the characters or any greater narrative - and the only alternative you are left with is sitcom. Entertaining, but it all goes back to normal at the end so that no episode obligates the narrative for anything. But this is entirely not what they meant, they didn’t want to turn Dorne into a sitcom, they clearly meant for us to take it seriously. So what went wrong? The answer is very simple, and it’s the same for Cersei’s accidental rape the previous season - they just didn’t notice, they didn’t know what they were doing and as a result just happened to craft a sitcom without and even considering it.

The next accidental plotline is pretty much everything in the North. You see, the way things were supposed to be set up, it was all very clear: Boltons stuck in Winterfell trying to defend their Northern holdings, Stannis coming from outside trying to liberate the North, Sansa (originally - Jeyne Poole) a hostage in her own home that’s used and abused by the Boltons and only wants to get away, and Theon stuck somewhere in the middle, hated by everyone yet still holds the fate of Sansa (originally - Jeyne Poole) in his hands and thus of the Boltons and Stannis and the whole north. Now, in this set-up, we are clearly meant to root for Stannis, Theon and Sansa (originally - Jeyne Poole). Both because of our connection to the Starks and how much we hate the Boltons, and also because the story is told in such a way that places Theon and Sansa (originally - Jeyne Poole) in the center, thus making Boltons the antagonists and as a result we root for Stannis. And in this set-up, Ramsay is clearly built as a the villain’s-sidekick - he’s the less competent fellow who creates a lot of trouble for our heroes, but he’s a lesser threat than the villain himself - Roose - because his power is derived entirely from his sire. Yet somehow, Ramsay ends up being the protagonist in this whole plot. Ramsay fucking Bolton, renowned flayer and rapist, is - by complete accident - the protagonist of a plot in which he’s the villain’s sidekick.

Let’s just have a short recap: Ramsay’s character makes other characters - Littlefinger, Roose, Sansa, Stannis - all bend to his character, their characters and their stories have to become completely twisted in order for his character and sotryline to make sense (in sixth grades - did anyone say “themes are for eighth-grade book reports?” lit. class we were taught that a main character is defined by that all the surrounding characters exist either to reveal things about him, or to move him into action); he’s the only person with a consensual, loving relationship one can relate to of all the characters we’ve seen in the North; he’s given more screen-time than any other character; other characters give him more attention than they ought to - especially Roose, he gets to bond with his daddy because of course he’s the center of attention; the guy we are supposed to root for suddenly starts burning his own kids so suddenly the Boltons don’t seem so bad; everyone else is passive - either starving or a victim - so Ramsay ends up being the only person who acts in this storyline with all the other characters just reacting to him; there is no plot to overthrow or escape him which would entrench his position as antagonist; and he succeeds with all he does - flays people without consequence, marries and rapes the pretty girl who can’t do anything against him, is 100% successful against Stannis with only 20 men… The end result is Ramsay, fucking Ramsay, becoming much more relatable and central as a character than any other character he interacts with, inadvertently making him a protagonist. Do I even need to detail how terrible of a writer you have to be to entirely miss your own protagonists and antagonists? That this is the very first thing you’re supposed to think about in a story? And to top it all off, to have Ramsay Bolton as the protagonist. I can’t even begin to describe the horror.

This is just to show you how little D&D think of their own stories. No other writer could possibly script so many important things just by accident. This is what comes from 1. insisting on deviating from the source material when the source material is still very much adaptable and 2. not simply rereading your own scripts and having them peer-reviewed

 

http://got-predictions.tumblr.com/post/150645970437/stannisisawesome-a-testament-to-dds-bad

[Ruhail]

Glad Mendhelson beat Harrington.

[Little Scribe of Naath]

I'm sorry if this was posted before, my apologies!

Yet another example of how D&D are basically winging it:

http://www.startrek.com/article/catching-up-with-alexander-siddig-part-1

The interesting part:

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Interviewer: Our prince did not meet a pleasant end...

AS:  He didn’t. It’s funny, I’m not really sure what happened there. I was contracted to do at least four episodes this season, but then I was in L.A. doing publicity for something else, and I got a call at the Chateau Marmont and there were familiar voices on the other end of the phone. It was one of those guys, and because they didn’t introduce themselves it was like, “Hi, it’s me.” I was like, “Is that David or Daniel?” Anyway, they said, “You know what this phone call is about.” I was like, “Yeah, well, I guess I do.” “So we were going to kill you off at the end of last season, but we decided that we’re going to have to kill you off at the beginning of next season.” I was like, “Okay, life goes on.” But there was something wrong about that because I had been contracted for four episodes in the following season, so if they were going to kill me off at the end of the last season why would they contract me for those four episodes? Because it costs them money whether I do them or not, so it’s not great business sense to do it just in case.

So something happened; I have no idea what.There was an enormous amount of fan excitement when I got named to be on the show, and everyone was like, “Oh my god, yes, Doran Martell. He’s going to be great as Doran Martell.” That might have been the kiss of death. Maybe they didn’t want quite that much attention on that character. Maybe they thought, “Well, let’s prove that we’re going to stray from the books. We’re going to do something else, and he will be our first example of that.” So maybe that could have been the case. Or maybe I just screwed up. Maybe I said the wrong thing to the wrong person.

So they had planned for Doran to be killed off at the end of last season, but then say they'll kill him off in the first episode of S6, but have contracted him (and are paying him money) for 4 episodes.

And people say D&D plan their show. 

[Le Cygne]

1 hour ago, Little Scribe of Naath said:

I'm sorry if this was posted before, my apologies!

Yet another example of how D&D are basically winging it:

http://www.startrek.com/article/catching-up-with-alexander-siddig-part-1

The interesting part:

So they had planned for Doran to be killed off at the end of last season, but then say they'll kill him off in the first episode of S6, but have contracted him (and are paying him money) for 4 episodes.

And people say D&D plan their show. 

"I have no idea what." Wow, that's a very revealing interview, thanks for posting.

[Little Scribe of Naath]

9 minutes ago, Le Cygne said:

"I have no idea what." Wow, that's a very revealing interview, thanks for posting.

It's very arrogant of them, IMO, to be treating actors like this. 

I remember, the actor for Jojen Reed had also given an interview saying that he didn't even get a phone call when he had to be killed, he found out on the plane while flying over to film it. 

Found it:https://www.buzzfeed.com/jarettwieselman/this-is-what-it-feels-like-to-be-killed-off-game-of-thrones?utm_term=.ylazn9rK9#.fp9Yl6mK6

It was the same for Art Parkinson, he found out on the day of filming.

So for established actors like Siddig, Dillane and the likes, they get a phone call, but for smaller actors like him, they don't care.

Not that they care about plot coherence or writing either, as Siddig's interview proved...

[Le Cygne]

24 minutes ago, Little Scribe of Naath said:

It's very arrogant of them, IMO, to be treating actors like this. 

I remember, the actor for Jojen Reed had also given an interview saying that he didn't even get a phone call when he had to be killed, he found out on the plane while flying over to film it. 

Found it:https://www.buzzfeed.com/jarettwieselman/this-is-what-it-feels-like-to-be-killed-off-game-of-thrones?utm_term=.ylazn9rK9#.fp9Yl6mK6

It was the same for Art Parkinson, he found out on the day of filming.

So for established actors like Siddig, Dillane and the likes, they get a phone call, but for smaller actors like him, they don't care.

Not that they care about plot coherence or writing either, as Siddig's interview proved...

Awwww, poor Art. He didn't even have a single line. And I didn't realize they didn't even bother to call the Jojen actor.

So both Siddig and Dillane had no idea what was going on with their characters. Tom Wlaschiha was trying to figure things out, too.

NCW couldn't really explain the look he gave Cersei at the end. All those ambiguous looks they give, they don't know what it means, either.

[sweetsunray]

That Siddig interview also shows what the budget is spent on: completely wasted, instead of direwolves, Wun-Wun fighting with a club in his hand

[Le Cygne]

On 9/21/2016 at 6:56 PM, Little Scribe of Naath said:

I'm sorry if this was posted before, my apologies!

Yet another example of how D&D are basically winging it:

http://www.startrek.com/article/catching-up-with-alexander-siddig-part-1

Just read the whole thing, picking some more bits out of that interview:

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So, for example, last season, I believe that the first few episodes were stolen and downloaded online, and everybody got to see them before the show actually aired, and everybody was furious at HBO and whatnot. I don’t know if you remember. I am almost positive that those four episodes were leaked by HBO themselves. So there is an enormous amount of spin going on. I can’t tell you that for sure; that’s just my opinion, but it’s games; everybody’s playing these games...

And going on to the show was really quite exciting because it was such a huge thing, and there was so much publicity money. People were saying, “Right, we’re all going to go to South America next week and talk to — let’s get the airline sorted out.” And I’m like, “My goodness, you’re just throwing this dough around, this cash.” So everything was really top-notch, and when we got out on set the crew was spectacularly good. They picked the best crews in the world, and there were two of them. It was so huge. That’s what I remember, everything was so huge. And actors praying they weren’t going to be killed...

But I know that, from an actor’s point of view, professionally you don’t want to be on a show like that for too long, unless you are one of the top leads who originated the show, because your schedule gets kind of messed up. You don’t earn as much as you would if you were doing another show, because they’re Game of Thrones, and they don’t have to pay anyone. So it’s kind of a blessing in disguise. I just moved away, and being on it at all sticks, and everyone goes, “Oh, the guy from Game of Thrones!” It doesn’t really matter that you weren’t on it very long.

 

[Little Scribe of Naath]

8 minutes ago, Le Cygne said:

Just read the whole thing, picking some more bits out of that interview:

 

Wow. Them leaking the four episodes part I didn't register completely while reading it the first time because I was focusing on him being contracted for S6 part.  That really ties in to the bit about the Emmys you posted above -  how much of all this is actually dictated by cash, popularity and power play. Established actors can speak out about this and not have their careers really affected.

The idea that any of the storylines on the show are remotely dictated by what happens in the books is very unlikely.

[Le Cygne]

21 hours ago, Little Scribe of Naath said:

Wow. Them leaking the four episodes part I didn't register completely while reading it the first time because I was focusing on him being contracted for S6 part.  That really ties in to the bit about the Emmys you posted above -  how much of all this is actually dictated by cash, popularity and power play. Established actors can speak out about this and not have their careers really affected.

Just remembering from what you said, there was also this:

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He is also about to appear in Game of Thrones. In his cavalier way the other day, he lit up the internet by letting slip that his character, a priest, brings back a popular character who was thought to have died in an earlier episode. “You say the slightest thing and the internet goes ape,” he says. “I was accused of giving the plot away, but I just think get a f---ing life. It’s only tits and dragons.

They asked me if I wanted to do Game of Thrones and I said, 'Sure, I’ll be able to see my old pals Charlie Dance and Stephen Dillane’ and they said, 'No, we’ve killed them off.’ I wasn’t sure whether I could commit, but then they said it would only be for one episode, so I said, 'So that means I must die at the end of it. Great, I’m in.’ ” (And with that, he gives away another plot twist.)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/tv/2016/03/11/ian-mcshane-game-of-thrones-is-just-tits-and-dragons/

[Liver and Onions]

On September 21, 2016 at 6:56 PM, Little Scribe of Naath said:

I'm sorry if this was posted before, my apologies!

Yet another example of how D&D are basically winging it:

http://www.startrek.com/article/catching-up-with-alexander-siddig-part-1

The interesting part:

So they had planned for Doran to be killed off at the end of last season, but then say they'll kill him off in the first episode of S6, but have contracted him (and are paying him money) for 4 episodes.

And people say D&D plan their show. 

Wow. Stuff like what's revealed in this interview is what really makes me dislike the show now, more so than the incompetent characterization and predictable plots.

[Ashes Of Westeros]

Back to Emmy. I think Maisie was adorable and believable s1-s3, but after going to Braavos her character became blunt with seemingly no emotions at all. Of course, a professional assasin should behave like this, but Arya's arc is that she is still Arya Stark, not a faceless man. Kit has the same problem.

[lancerman]

GOT winning the Emmy was an easy call. The earlier season didn't win largely because of competition. Season 5 was largely based off not being in a race with Breaking Bad and Mad Men in their home stretch.

Last year, the general consensus was that the show had it's weakest season. This year the general consensus (not here, but in real life) was that the show had a bounce back season if not one of it's best seasons with the last two episodes being considered some of the most cinematic episodes in television. And the competition really didn't improve enough to say "well GOT had a massive improvement over last season, which one, but this show came out of nowhere and nullified it"

 

 

[Le Cygne]

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“The Americans” couldn’t topple “Game of Thrones” for Outstanding Drama Series, nor could it steal trophies for its beloved leads Matthew Rhys and Keri Russell. Creators Joe Weisberg and Joel Fields couldn’t even win for Outstanding Writing, again defeated by the HBO giant in what is an utterly inexplicable choice to anyone who’s written words, plural.

http://www.indiewire.com/2016/09/emmys-the-americans-keri-russell-matthew-rhys-win-1201727802/

Yep.

[Dolorous Gabe]

I haven't yet seen S4 of the Americans so I can't comment on that, but I've recently watched to the end of S3 and I've been enjoying that more than GoT.

Mr. Robot was better. S2 of Fargo was far better and the best thing I've seen since BB ended, even though it didn't even win in its 'Limited Series' category. Better Call Saul was better.

If GoT improved upon S5 at all, it was a minuscule improvement. You could certainly say that aesthetically it improved markedly and Miguel Sapochnik definitely had a hand in that, but in storytelling terms it was little better if at all.

[Tijgy]

An interesting piece on how D&D failed Loras tremendously

http://www.fandomfollowing.com/loras-tyrell-deserved-better/

(I actually do like in one way they decided to make the role for Loras (in the beginning) and Margaery a little bigger than in the books. But the way they did it, makes me )

[SeanF]

12 minutes ago, Tijgy said:

An interesting piece on how D&D failed Loras tremendously

http://www.fandomfollowing.com/loras-tyrell-deserved-better/

(I actually do like in one way they decided to make the role for Loras (in the beginning) and Margaery a little bigger than in the books. But the way they did it, makes me )

In the books, Loras mourns Renly so much that he buries him and secret, and then takes a vow of celibacy by joining the Kingsguard.  In the Show, he and Renly shag everything in site.