Discussing Sansa XXVI: The End of Many Debates...

[Zorral]

Considering the history of those who have had holding Winterfell, the first defense against the Winter, one would think that the King in the North naming Sansa Stark Lady of Winterfell was the only and the smart thing to do. Pillaged and wrecked since the death of Ned Stark, so much work and effort has to get organized immediately to put Winterfell into productive state, a state in which it can be the asset it has always been for Winter.  Who better to do that than the Lady of Winterfell, the last remaining child as far as anyone knows, of the long line of Starks?

Beyond that, Sansa, such a traditional thinking child at the time, grew up under the tutelage of her mother Catelyn, a most effective castle chateleine.  Ladies of essential places as Winterfell worked hard.  They did not sit around all day doing embroidery and listening to courtly love songs played by troubadours.  Stewards and ladies of the castle worked hand-in-hand.  Bad steward, bad mistress, could wreak havoc on a possession. They not only worked together, but worked as check and balance on each other.

Additionally, now that Jon is King in the North, he can exercise the kingly perogatives of giving the lands of the defeated to whomever he deems worthy -- even if there are living heirs to the defeated.  So, if he wanted, and if she'd take them, Sansa could indeed take over the Bolton lands and STILL be Stark.  Which she is.

 

[NoneofYourBiz]

5 minutes ago, Zorral said:

Additionally, now that Jon is King in the North, he can exercise the kingly perogatives of giving the lands to the defeated to whomever he deems worthy -- even if there are living heirs to the defeated.  So, if he wanted, and if she'd take them, Sansa could indeed take over the Bolton lands and STILL be Stark.  Which she is.

 

Jon could give Bolton lands to her and Sansa could be Lady Stark of the Dreadfort, or she could claim them as Ramsay's widow.  EIther way, what would happen to those lands if she married?  

[Zorral]

It's the whole package that the husband marries, and then they all belong to him, unless special legal clauses saying otherwise are negotiated into the marriage contract.  That the medieval way.  This would certainly make her the most wooed heiress in the lands -- that is as long as any lands remain after the ww and winter have their way with them and the residents

 

[Future Null Infinity]

26 minutes ago, MoonKnight21 said:

Jon saying "no you take it, of it wasnt for you and the knights of the vale we wouldnt have won"

Discussion about the Lords title (and chamber) ends there, with Jon offering it to her, but she doesnt accept or decline. 

what you are saying is true, but also Jon didn't accept or decline, to me, it was clear in the meeting, she didn't oppose making Jon the KitN, she was supportive, she can easily stand up and say that she's the rightful daughter of Ned Stark and this one is bastard and a usurper, she didn't care about power, she got her revenge, she knew that Jon is a hero and KitN is his place, he almost died for her in the battle

[Raksha 2014]

20 minutes ago, Zorral said:

Considering the history of those who have had holding Winterfell, the first defense against the Winter, one would think that the King in the North naming Sansa Stark Lady of Winterfell was the only and the smart thing to do. Pillaged and wrecked since the death of Ned Stark, so much work and effort has to get organized immediately to put Winterfell into productive state, a state in which it can be the asset it has always been for Winter.  Who better to do that than the Lady of Winterfell, the last remaining child as far as anyone knows, of the long line of Starks?

Beyond that, Sansa, such a traditional thinking child at the time, grew up under the tutelage of her mother Catelyn, a most effective castle chateleine.  Ladies of essential places as Winterfell worked hard.  They did not sit around all day doing embroidery and listening to courtly love songs played by troubadours.  Stewards and ladies of the castle worked hand-in-hand.  Bad steward, bad mistress, could wreak havoc on a possession. They not only worked together, but worked as check and balance on each other.

Additionally, now that Jon is King in the North, he can exercise the kingly perogatives of giving the lands of the defeated to whomever he deems worthy -- even if there are living heirs to the defeated.  So, if he wanted, and if she'd take them, Sansa could indeed take over the Bolton lands and STILL be Stark.  Which she is.

 

 

If I had any confidence that the showrunners even remember that there is a Dreadfort and that Sansa has a claim on it and the rest of the Bolton lands, I'd be pleased.

[caravaggio]

Sansa can be Sansa Stark or Sansa Bolton or Sansa Moonboy if Jon says so. The king makes whatever rules he wants.

[lakin1013]

13 minutes ago, Future Null Infinity said:

she knew that Jon is a hero and KitN is his place, he almost died for her in the battle

I wanted to point out that the show makes it very clear in Battle of the Bastards that Sansa sees Jon run after Ramsay.  Ramsay decides to retreat to the castle and Jon sees this.  He runs after him, then Tormund and WunWun join him.  The camera work shows this happening, then returns to Sansa's face so we know she watches.  Her next view is of Jon, on top of Ramsay, beating the hell out of him.  While the Knights of the Vale did in fact turn the tide of the battle, it was also clear that Jon was willing to run after Ramsay and make him pay, not only for Sansa but for Rickon too.  Sansa knows that her brother was willing to die for her.  Her impression of men has to pretty much stink lately and this kind of knowledge will help her heal. 

[Raksha 2014]

3 hours ago, Lord Friendzone said:

Sophie mentioned in one of the interviews to promote Game of Thrones that Sansa wants to be Queen in the North more than anything and also that she is mentally stronger than Jon. Influencing him. Iron Throne is not in her plans. Also that producers sometimes purposely lied to her about future of the character and that she doesn't know yet what's going to happen. Also she starts filming in September in Belfast.

 

Sansa has only said that she wanted to be a queen when she was a child, and was a "stupid girl".  If she wants to be QiTN more than anything, why hasn't she started talking with some of the Northern Lords before the big meeting?  She's absolutely unequipped, at this point, to be QiTN; she knows Southern politics far better than Northern politics.  

I wonder if the Sansa character is going to be killed off next season; and the producers are keeping it from her?  Also, if the producers sometimes lie to her about the future of TV-Sansa, how would Sophie know that Sansa wants to be QiTN and is going to influence him?

I'm seeing a disconnect between what the actors and others say in interviews and what is actually happening onscreen during the episodes, at least so far.  If the directors and writers wanted to show that Sansa is upset and resentful over not being named QiTN, they should have had those feelings conveyed in the actual episode.

[Future Null Infinity]

3 minutes ago, Raksha 2014 said:

I wonder if the Sansa character is going to be killed off next season; and the producers are keeping it from her?  Also, if the producers sometimes lie to her about the future of TV-Sansa, how would Sophie know that Sansa wants to be QiTN and is going to influence him?

if the story will put her against Jon in a mini stark civil war, she's dead, the north now is with the KitN

3 minutes ago, Raksha 2014 said:

I'm seeing a disconnect between what the actors and others say in interviews and what is actually happening onscreen during the episodes, at least so far.  If the directors and writers wanted to show that Sansa is upset and resentful over not being named QiTN, they should have had those feelings conveyed in the actual episode.

Some hype for next season, like "Jon is dead and will not come back"

[Tagganaro]

3 minutes ago, Raksha 2014 said:

 

Sansa has only said that she wanted to be a queen when she was a child, and was a "stupid girl".  If she wants to be QiTN more than anything, why hasn't she started talking with some of the Northern Lords before the big meeting?  She's absolutely unequipped, at this point, to be QiTN; she knows Southern politics far better than Northern politics.  

I wonder if the Sansa character is going to be killed off next season; and the producers are keeping it from her?  Also, if the producers sometimes lie to her about the future of TV-Sansa, how would Sophie know that Sansa wants to be QiTN and is going to influence him?

I'm seeing a disconnect between what the actors and others say in interviews and what is actually happening onscreen during the episodes, at least so far.  If the directors and writers wanted to show that Sansa is upset and resentful over not being named QiTN, they should have had those feelings conveyed in the actual episode.

It seems pretty clear to me that this is exactly what is happening- a disconnect between what the writers/directors intend a scene to convey and how people actually see it.  This has been happening a while back, as far back to the Jaime/Cersei rape scene that I can remember. And it's been happening more and more frequently the more they go off-book (like with Arya's whole arc this year). Based on several interviews, it seems clear that what the writers intended to convey is Sansa being jealous of Jon and some sort of sibling rivalry- That's what led Sansa to hold back information of the Vale troops and led to the scene in this episode with Jon saying they need to trust each other.  The show has completely failed to convey that effectively, hence why there's so much debate over what Sansa wants and what she is thinking.  As I said earlier in the thread, I 100% read Sansa's behavior at the end of the episode as jealousy of Jon stealing her spotlight.  Friends disagreed with me on that, as did others on here.  It seems clear that in the after the episode thing, that's what D & D thought they were conveying, and that's how Sophie Turner and Liam Cunningham are reading these scenes.

 

[lakin1013]

6 hours ago, Winter's Cold said:

Yeah I didn't really get the Jon/Sansa tension from watching the episode except at the end where she and Littlefinger exchange gazes. That last part has multiple interpretations but I viewed it as Littlefinger mocking her. Perhaps it's about the Northern lords supporting a bastard over a trueborn Stark. It could also just be her being concerned about Littlefinger's actions.

LF told her explicitly what his plans are.  1. He sits on the Iron Throne.  2. She sits next to him.  He is first, always. At the Lords meeting, he was standing in the corner, slouched against the wall, silent but hyper observant.  Based on his explicit plans for himself, I concluded he was adding the new fact: Jon as KoTN to his plan, and thinking about how he could benefit from it.  His look to Sansa seemed to be at once an a)I told you so, b)I will intervene whenever I want when it benefits my self interests, and c) You have my offer but it won't last forever. 

He told her that every thought or idea is tested against the picture he holds in his brain and then he checks to see if he can make the picture come true. Then and only then, does he work for it or against it.  He made himself pretty clear.  Sansa should be able to use that information to trap LF.  And I did interpret the dropping of her smile in response to remembering that LF can be a formidable opponent. 

[NymeriaWarriorQueen]

If Sansa continues to play the Game then she will eventually end up toast.  Once the White Walkers arrive then the focus will be on Dany and Jon.  Littlefinger and/or Sansa do not have any resources to fight the REAL enemy.

[NutBurz]

1 hour ago, Future Null Infinity said:

here lays the contradiction between the episode and what D&D and the actors said, in the show she refused the lordship of winterfell and in the interviews they are saying that she didn't like the fact that Jon took the lordship of winterfell, if she wanted the lordship then why she didn't stand for her right in the meeting, it's just hype for a conflict that will never happen

she already refused in the godswood : 'a pretty picture' and she walked away

There is no contradiction if you consider she gave it to Jon because she expects him to die real soon. She doesn´t like not getting it, but she doesn´t anyway because she can´t, because getting it right now would be giving it to LF. Getting it later might not.

And that´s Sansa refusing LF, not the Vale Lords. regardless of that scene, for LF´s plans sake he would still publicly ask her hand in marriage to the Vale. He might still do it anyway, because everyone can see how Jon tends more to not living than living.

[Ingelheim]

Sophie Turner is in Madrid right now, where I live (she's even prettier than she looks on screen), and she is at a fan meeting event right now. She said Sansa wants to be Queen in the North, and the fact that no one truly acknowledges she saved everyone or her Stark blood pisses her off. She also said she doesn't trust Littlefinger, but she knows he's partially right about Jon stealing her right to WF. She's jealous of him.

She also believes Sansa will never betray Jon.

He's the link to the article, from Los Siete Reinos. It's in Spanish but you can use Google translator I guess haha

http://lossietereinos.com/entrevista-de-los-siete-reinos-a-sophie-turner-sansa-tiene-celos-de-jon/

 

[Lord Friendzone]

25 minutes ago, Ingelheim said:

Sophie Turner is in Madrid right now, where I live (she's even prettier than she looks on screen), and she is at a fan meeting event right now. She said Sansa wants to be Queen in the North, and the fact that no one truly acknowledges she saved everyone or her Stark blood pisses her off. She also said she doesn't trust Littlefinger, but she knows he's partially right about Jon stealing her right to WF. She's jealous of him.

She also believes Sansa will never betray Jon.

He's the link to the article, from Los Siete Reinos. It's in Spanish but you can use Google translator I guess haha

http://lossietereinos.com/entrevista-de-los-siete-reinos-a-sophie-turner-sansa-tiene-celos-de-jon/

 

Northerners choose Jon. He could've said no but then it will be like big fuck to all the Lord in the room. Disrespectful.

Jon said that without her he wouldn't be standing there but she also lied about it to Jon. It basically looks like bertrayl is on the cards because how else you can call this.

[NutBurz]

1 minute ago, Lord Friendzone said:

Northerners choose Jon. He could've said no but then it will be like big fuck to all the Lord in the room. Disrespectful.

Jon said that without her he wouldn't be standing there but she also lied about it to Jon. It basically looks like bertrayl is on the cards because how else you can call this.

"Betraying by omission". I can very well see her character honestly believing that´s not betrayal.

 

30 minutes ago, Ingelheim said:

Sophie Turner is in Madrid right now, where I live (she's even prettier than she looks on screen), and she is at a fan meeting event right now. She said Sansa wants to be Queen in the North, and the fact that no one truly acknowledges she saved everyone or her Stark blood pisses her off. She also said she doesn't trust Littlefinger, but she knows he's partially right about Jon stealing her right to WF. She's jealous of him.

She also believes Sansa will never betray Jon.

He's the link to the article, from Los Siete Reinos. It's in Spanish but you can use Google translator I guess haha

http://lossietereinos.com/entrevista-de-los-siete-reinos-a-sophie-turner-sansa-tiene-celos-de-jon/

 

Thanks for this.

[Pies are coming]

I don't think the actors have received the scripts for next season, though

[Future Null Infinity]

6 minutes ago, Lord Friendzone said:

Northerners choose Jon. He could've said no but then it will be like big fuck to all the Lord in the room. Disrespectful.

Jon said that without her he wouldn't be standing there but she also lied about it to Jon. It basically looks like bertrayl is on the cards because how else you can call this.

thank you, it almost like she said in this interview :

http://variety.com/2016/tv/news/game-of-thrones-season-7-spoilers-jon-sansa-littlefinger-marry-theory-sophie-turner-1201805047/

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/game-thrones-finale-sophie-turner-906820

I didn't wait 2 years to finally see her story and now they will make her a traitor

I swear if D&D make her a traitor to Jon I will go wolverine on their asses and then start rooting for Thoros of Myr, this one does have a bigger chance to survive

So this is the new story of winterfell?, a feud between Jon and Sansa? to make us wait for season 8 and the war of dawn? 

If she will go against Jon then she will 100% dead, when I thought that sticking with the starks because they have a plot armor 

[Ingelheim]

17 minutes ago, Pies are coming said:

I don't think the actors have received the scripts for next season, though

No, she doesn't. She said they get the scripts two weeks before the shooting starts. So, what she says is just her own thoughts about the  future of the character.

[Ingelheim]

34 minutes ago, Lord Friendzone said:

Northerners choose Jon. He could've said no but then it will be like big fuck to all the Lord in the room. Disrespectful.

Jon said that without her he wouldn't be standing there but she also lied about it to Jon. It basically looks like bertrayl is on the cards because how else you can call this.

Naah, I don't really think she'll betray him. LF will try to create a wedge between them, there'll be tension, etc...but at the end of the day, LF will end up dead and Jon and Sansa will be both fine.

If she does betray him, which would honestly surprise me...she's dead. Jon's the main character. She's not going to get the Throne unless he wants her to.