Discussing Sansa XXVI: The End of Many Debates...

[permaximum]

Sansa likes Jon but I think Sansa loves Petyr almost like she's in a spell. She's really trying hard to leave everything about him behind because she's the only person got a true glimpse of what kind of psychopath he is and there's the fact that he sold her like one of his whores to be tortured and raped. Her mind can't accept Baelish. He's even older than her father and he's a psychopath that caused her a great amount of pain. Although he seemed to care for her, his actions proved that isn't the case.

Still, her feelings don't approve her mind.

After everything, she resisted Petyr this time in the godswood scene but barely. She almost fall for it, again, despite what he did to her.

I think Littlefinger knows this and he plays his hand open and doesn't hesitate to tell the truth. That's the only thing he has against Sansa now and his words like "my love" etc. are the truths that were said by him to continue manipulating her anyways.

[Ingelheim]

21 minutes ago, permaximum said:

Sansa likes Jon but I think Sansa loves Petyr almost like she's in a spell. She's really trying hard to leave everything about him behind because she's the only person got a true glimpse of what kind of psychopath he is and there's the fact that he sold her like one of his whores to be tortured and raped. Her mind can't accept Baelish. He's even older than her father and he's a psychopath that caused her a great amount of pain. Although he seemed to care for her, his actions proved that isn't the case.

Still, her feelings don't approve her mind.

After everything, she resisted Petyr this time in the godswood scene but barely. She almost fall for it, again, despite what he did to her.

I think Littlefinger knows this and he plays his hand open and doesn't hesitate to tell the truth. That's the only thing he has against Sansa now and his words like "my love" etc. are the truths that were said by him to continue manipulating her anyways.

I don't believe that's really the case. Sophie herself mentions in the interview she gave that Sansa doesn't trust LF anymore. She may or may not use him to get what she wants, but I don't think she has any romantic feelings towards him.

Also there's the fact that their interests are no longer the same. She wants to be Queen, or, at least, being recognized as the true heir to Winterfell. She wants to feel the respect the name Stark should command. That's why I think Sansa won't go far with her possible "schemes". She's pissed off (and she has reasons for it) with Jon and the Northern Lords. Many of them wouldn't be alive if it weren't for her, and Ramsay Bolton would still be Warden of the North. On top of that, they declared her bastard brother King in the North. 

I would be angry as well. 

On the other hand, LF wants the Iron Throne, and wants Sansa as his queen. And she doesn't want that, I can assure you. She may want to rule the North, she may want her birthright, Winterfell...but she doesn't want to be Cersei.

That doesn't mean she will try to kill Jon as some her suggest. I don't even think she will betray him. We all know Jon isn't going down till he fights the Night King, and Sansa is a fan favourite. LF is the one dying next Season, I don't have doubts about it, and it will be 100% related to this matter.

[permaximum]

1 hour ago, Ingelheim said:

I don't believe that's really the case. Sophie herself mentions in the interview she gave that Sansa doesn't trust LF anymore. She may or may not use him to get what she wants, but I don't think she has any romantic feelings towards him.

Also there's the fact that their interests are no longer the same. She wants to be Queen, or, at least, being recognized as the true heir to Winterfell. She wants to feel the respect the name Stark should command. That's why I think Sansa won't go far with her possible "schemes". She's pissed off (and she has reasons for it) with Jon and the Northern Lords. Many of them wouldn't be alive if it weren't for her, and Ramsay Bolton would still be Warden of the North. On top of that, they declared her bastard brother King in the North. 

I would be angry as well. 

That doesn't mean she will try to kill Jon as some her suggest. I don't even think she will betray him. We all know Jon isn't going down till he fights the Night King, and Sansa is a fan favourite. LF is the one dying next Season, I don't have doubts about it, and it will be 100% related to this matter.

Sansa definetely doesn't trust LF. And she will never consider killing Jon or betraying Jon. Like I said before she likes Jon as her brother.

But those are beside the point. She's attracted to Littlefinger and it's nothing to do with trust.

[Future Null Infinity]

11 minutes ago, permaximum said:

But those are beside the point. She's attracted to Littlefinger and it's nothing to do with trust.

Believe me, it's totally the inverse, LF lose his mind when he sees a red haired stark woman, she blocked him when he was going to kiss her in the godswood, she's is not in love with him, but he is, and I will give a proof : it's the first time in 6 seasons that LF tell someone about his plans, normally LF would never do that, the man is crazy about Sansa, Ms Turner said that Sansa doesn't love LF but she sees in him an ally and that he was partially right about telling her that Jon will take the lordship of Winterfell from her, she can't kill him because she don't have a reason to kill him for now, she just keep an eye on him

[permaximum]

1 hour ago, Future Null Infinity said:

Believe me, it's totally the inverse, LF lose his mind when he see a red haired stark woman, she blocked him when he was going to kiss her in the godswood, she's is not in love with him, but he is, and I will give a proof : it's the first time in 6 seasons that LF tell someone about his plans, normally LF would never do that, Mr Turner said that Sansa doesn't love LF but she sees in him an ally and that he was partially right about telling her that Jon will take the lordship of Winterfell from her

LF loves her but I still think he loves power more. If Turner said Sansa doesn't love LF then you're right. Do you have a link for it?

[Future Null Infinity]

3 minutes ago, permaximum said:

LF loves her but I still think he loves power more. If Turner said Sansa doesn't love LF then you're right. Do you have a link for it?

He loves the iron throne and he loves Sansa, the man said that in the episode, his dream is him setting in the iron throne and Sansa beside him

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/game-thrones-finale-sophie-turner-906820

http://variety.com/2016/tv/news/game-of-thrones-season-7-spoilers-jon-sansa-littlefinger-marry-theory-sophie-turner-1201805047/

[permaximum]

1 hour ago, Future Null Infinity said:

He loves the iron throne and he loves Sansa, the man said that in the episode, his dream is him setting in the iron throne and Sansa beside him

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/game-thrones-finale-sophie-turner-906820

http://variety.com/2016/tv/news/game-of-thrones-season-7-spoilers-jon-sansa-littlefinger-marry-theory-sophie-turner-1201805047/

But like he said, the Iron throne comes first.

Thanks for the interview links. I'm glad that it 100% confirms all of what I wrote about the KITN scene in an another thread.

But Turner doesn't say anything about if Sansa loves LF or not. In the beginning of the article, editor of the article wrote his own thoughts about that because of what LF and other men did to her. And I say he's wrong.

 

[Future Null Infinity]

1 hour ago, permaximum said:

snip

 

If you missed it, my final version of Episode 10 after reviewing the scenes as I see it after reading all the interviews:

• Jon didn't offer her the lordship of Winterfell, he said simply "you are the Lady of winterfell" (which is the reality) and she remains silent (she didn't refuse)
• in the meeting room, Lyanna Mormont speaks and suggests Jon as KitN (like Sam in the LC election in CB)
• everyone accepted (like the scene of Robb)
• it was a surprise for jon, he can't say no (like in LC election)
• it was also a surprise for sansa, she smiled but internally she didn't like it, she didn't like that they took her lordship of Winterfell like this
• her smile faded after that by anger

she was angry because they took Winterfell from her after everything she done : calling the knights of the vale and saving Jon

Sophie in the video said that Sansa is like Catelyn in her view to Jon, they are good with each other but she ultimately see him like a bastard and surely dislike that Winterfell goes to Jon

[Lord Friendzone]

16 minutes ago, Future Null Infinity said:

If you missed it, my final version of Episode 10 after reviewing the scenes as I see it after reading all the interviews:

• Jon didn't offer her the lordship of Winterfell, he said simply "you are the Lady of winterfell" (which is the reality) and she remains silent (she didn't refuse)
• in the meeting room, Lyanna Mormont speaks and suggests Jon as KitN (like Sam in the LC election in CB)
• everyone accepted (like the scene of Robb)
• it was a surprise for jon, he can't say no (like in LC election)
• it was also a surprise for sansa, she smiled but internally she didn't like it, she didn't like that they took her lordship of Winterfell like this
• her smile faded after that by anger

she was angry because they took Winterfell from her after everything she done : calling the knights of the vale and saving Jon

Sophie in the video said that Sansa is like Catelyn in her view to Jon, they are good with each other but she ultimately see him like a bastard and surely dislike that Winterfell goes to Jon

Basically Sansa is Thorne 2.0 (some story recycling?)

Maybe this bertrayl or feud will make Jon realize he doesn't belong in the North or as a Stark. Much like he understood NW was done and he was done with them. Remember in the books Kings in crypts acted hostile against him, telling him he's not a Stark. It's all about where he belongs and it might be why are we having this feud. Combine it with his knowledge of his true parentage.

Their relationship could be and might be truly over after this and it's a shame. Especially for Jon. He would never trust her. Partially I understand her not given enough credit an childhoo with Cat but damn they are family. I guess these things are possible even for Starks.

[permaximum]

1 hour ago, Future Null Infinity said:

If you missed it, my final version of Episode 10 after reviewing the scenes as I see it after reading all the interviews:

• Jon didn't offer her the lordship of Winterfell, he said simply "you are the Lady of winterfell" (which is the reality) and she remains silent (she didn't refuse)
• in the meeting room, Lyanna Mormont speaks and suggests Jon as KitN (like Sam in the LC election in CB)
• everyone accepted (like the scene of Robb)
• it was a surprise for jon, he can't say no (like in LC election)
• it was also a surprise for sansa, she smiled but internally she didn't like it, she didn't like that they took her lordship of Winterfell like this
• her smile faded after that by anger

she was angry because they took Winterfell from her after everything she done : calling the knights of the vale and saving Jon

Sophie in the video said that Sansa is like Catelyn in her view to Jon, they are good with each other but she ultimately see him like a bastard and surely dislike that Winterfell goes to Jon

Basically Sansa is Thorne 2.0 (some story recycling?)

To me that scene was very obvious. In short, she got angry because she thought she saved them all and didn't get any credit for it. On the contrary LF didn't give a sh*t about getting credit although he was the one who really saved everyone and forced the Vale to act. Back to the topic, like I pointed out before, Turner doesn't say anything about if Sansa loves LF or not in those interviews.

I definetely think she loves him. There have been many scenes to suggest that or her actions would be stupid as hell and I don't believe she is that stupid.

[Quyen Thuy Tran]

20 minutes ago, Lord Friendzone said:

Maybe this bertrayl or feud will make Jon realize he doesn't belong in the North or as a Stark. Much like he understood NW was done and he was done with them. Remember in the books Kings in crypts acted hostile against him, telling him he's not a Stark. It's all about where he belongs and it might be why are we having this feud. Combine it with his knowledge of his true parentage.

Their relationship could be and might be truly over after this and it's a shame. Especially for Jon. He would never trust her. Partially I understand her not given enough credit an childhoo with Cat but damn they are family. I guess these things are possible even for Starks.

As I have said above, I sense a betrayal from Sansa. And Jon might be dead again or near death. Then he finds out about his true heritage and snaps finally: "Oh Fuxxx Wintefell, it has never been for me!" Jon will leave Winterfell, ride ro the south and somehow meet his aunt and warn her about WW. They will team up against WW because if Dany can save the seven kingdoms she might have the best claim as the queen, and Jon might be happy to be in the team etc. 

[Bear Claw]

I think she has a lot of reasons to be concerned about this King in the North. She has no secure position at Winterfell. After all that  she has been through, she is finally home, but she has no power of her own. She might very well be given into yet another bad marriage. I think she needs to do something to establish herself. All of the Stark children have been on learning arcs. It would be very anti-climactic for her not to use what she learned. I guess people are upset because it is Jon, but Sansa needs to use what she has learned. 

[willowbark]

One of the interview sets I saw, it looked like they were wearing the same outfits for their interviews for episode 9 and 10, so I'm wondering if they were discussing it all lumped together, guessing for next season based on that.  I agree with others who are skeptical on what actors and producers say are coming, as we've had so much misdirection anyway (Jon Snow is dead, season 5 is woman empowerment season, Sansa is a player after season 4, etc).  

I also wonder about Sansa agitation about the KITN scene for this reason - I thought all season that she wanted Ramsey dead and Winterfell back for her home, her family, and all Ramsey did to her.  She has to convince Jon to agree to fight, as well as asking for the Vale army.  In the scene the other lords declare that Jon has avenged the Red Wedding by killing Boltons/retaking Winterfell.  It seemed far more persoanl for Sansa than avenging the Red Wedding on behalf of the North.  Perhaps she was also agitated about this?

[throney]

 

54 minutes ago, willowbark said:

One of the interview sets I saw, it looked like they were wearing the same outfits for their interviews for episode 9 and 10, so I'm wondering if they were discussing it all lumped together, guessing for next season based on that.  I agree with others who are skeptical on what actors and producers say are coming, as we've had so much misdirection anyway (Jon Snow is dead, season 5 is woman empowerment season, Sansa is a player after season 4, etc).  

I also wonder about Sansa agitation about the KITN scene for this reason - I thought all season that she wanted Ramsey dead and Winterfell back for her home, her family, and all Ramsey did to her.  She has to convince Jon to agree to fight, as well as asking for the Vale army.  In the scene the other lords declare that Jon has avenged the Red Wedding by killing Boltons/retaking Winterfell.  It seemed far more persoanl for Sansa than avenging the Red Wedding on behalf of the North.  Perhaps she was also agitated about this?

The problem I have with the "Inside the Episode" stuff is that there is no real context apart from the episode that just aired. It's just actors, showrunners etc talking. What questions were they asked? It could put a whole new spin on what they say. I also wonder how much the actors know about their character arcs, is it just when they get their scripts? 

I wonder if there is some misdirection here. After all the interviews etc, Sansa betraying Jon and running off with Littlefinger seems a given. This to me makes me think it's a red herring as it would be a big plot point to give away right now.

[NymeriaWarriorQueen]

What bugs me is that Littlefinger is still manipulating Sansa whether she realizes it or not.  He is trying to drive a wedge between Sansa and Jon by planting a picture of her being Queen in her mind.  I really think Jon and Sansa would have a good relationship if Littlefinger was out of the picture.  I know I have the minority view on this but Littlefinger really knows what to say to make Sansa feel she is being slighted in favor of Jon.  Btw.....what is going to happen if Ayra discovers Sansa is plotting against Jon and may wish him harm?

[tmug]

1 hour ago, TheFirstofHerName said:

What bugs me is that Littlefinger is still manipulating Sansa whether she realizes it or not.  He is trying to drive a wedge between Sansa and Jon by planting a picture of her being Queen in her mind.  I really think Jon and Sansa would have a good relationship if Littlefinger was out of the picture.  I know I have the minority view on this but Littlefinger really knows what to say to make Sansa feel she is being slighted in favor of Jon.  Btw.....what is going to happen if Ayra discovers Sansa is plotting against Jon and may wish him harm?

Perhaps Sansa and LF hire out a lonely servant girl and use her to plot against Jon and then season 7 finale, servant girl removes the mask and Arya kills Sansa and LF. ~The End

[Chib]

11 minutes ago, tmug said:

Perhaps Sansa and LF hire out a lonely servant girl and use her to plot against Jon and then season 7 finale, servant girl removes the mask and Arya kills Sansa and LF. ~The End

 

I like this idea. It might happen the same in the book lol

[tmug]

1 minute ago, Chib said:

I like this idea. It might happen the same in the book lol

Well i am afraid D&D will use this Faceless Men ability as an obvious plot device. 

No casting extra is safe now, they could all be actually Arya in disguise. I was looking at Cersei's servant girl thinking that could be Arya in the near future. Poor Maise, less screen time

[Les Météores D]

They're setting up a feud (whatever that means) because that's what going to happen in TWOW, although differently for obvious reasons. Robb's will has consequences for both Jon and Sansa, he disinherited her because of her marriage to Tyrion. LF will contest that regardless if they go through her marriage with HtH or not. In both show and book Sansa will ultimately choose her family. 

[Future Null Infinity]

1 hour ago, Les Météores D said:

They're setting up a feud (whatever that means) because that's what going to happen in TWOW, although differently for obvious reasons. Robb's will has consequences for both Jon and Sansa, he disinherited her because of her marriage to Tyrion. LF will contest that regardless if they go through her marriage with HtH or not. In both show and book Sansa will ultimately choose her family. 

I agree with you that Sansa will ultimately choose her family, and damn, even dead, Robb still causing problems everywhere, if it will be feud then it's because the story can't give Jon a plot gift, Jon is not Daenerys, KitN was too easy, I think also that it will not be a big feud, ultimately KitN wasn't his idea, he didn't want to usurp his sister in the first place, it was the idea of Lyanna Mormont