How did marrying Sansa to Ramsay help Littlefinger achieve his 'one true goal'?

[Kytheros]

5 hours ago, fightwookies said:

I think Littlefinger had confidence he could explain away marrying Sansa to Cersei

He might have decided at that point to "prove" that Joffery's murder was actually the work of the Tyrells.

5 hours ago, Battle Kitten said:

Or maybe Littlefinger is a big fat liar and just made that up to get Sansa? 

Entirely possible, if not likely, no, make that certain that he's trying to manipulate Sansa. And I don't think she was buying his motivations and good will towards her. It's still possible that he got into her head enough to mess with her relationship with Jon, like he at least tried back when she first met Littlefinger up near the Wall this season.

I'm hoping Littlefinger dies soon. I'm also hoping that, moving forwards, we see Sansa, as the "player", protecting Jon against Littlefinger's schemes, even if Jon doesn't realize it until Sansa tells him, and even counter-scheming and playing the game against the mortal enemies of House Stark, since there isn't much that she could do against the White Walkers. If/when Arya returns to Winterfell, it's possible that Sansa and Arya will work together in being the subtle left hand of the King in the North, so to speak - the quiet dagger dealing with problems and threats under the table.

[rayarts]

6 hours ago, Ser Wun Wun said:

Sigh....I really wish they had just killed LF.  I guess it will keep up "suspense" next season as we wait for LF to inevitably try and screw Jon over, but I don't like it one bit.  Hope the books are different, I don't want to see LF anywhere near Jon Snow.  

Agree. This "plot" they came up with is just exhausting. 

[NutBurz]

You need to think of at least two reasons, because he can´t be sure of the outcomes and he has to put himself in a good position for whichever.

For one, considering his alliance to the South, he painted a target on the Boltons´ back. He set up the opportunity to break the weak bond between the Lannisters and the North, and to get future leverage from having taken Winterfell. He could give half a thousand reasons as to why he lacked Sansa´s head afterwards.

 

Considering his alliance to the Boltons, he knew they were in a weak, desperate position. Everyone knew they could only hope to keep an unstable control over the North due to the other houses not having enough power/willingness to oppose them. Everyone knews the Bolton´s hold on the North was based on their alliance with a more powerful southern house. Everyone knew that everything the Boltons could hope for would be the seemingly impossible marriage with a girl Stark. The Boltons would need a great incentive to openly break their bonds with the Lannister - pretty much the only things that would do would be a female Stark.

From this angle, LF seems to give away too much for too little. The Boltons would in time gather the allegiance of the other Northern houses and not need the Vale any longer. But that´s only not considering he has a third angle - which obviously Roose Bolton considered, but he simply did not have a choice. That´s how most diplomacy goes.

 

Littlefinger himself has absolutely no doubt the Bolton are doomed - something the Boltons cannot and would not assume to themselves. He knows they can´t kill Sansa off until she has an heir and he knows he can get the Vale army to Winterfell much before that. We cannot assume he is not in communication with the other houses, and that he would not be, so he could even plot. But more than anything - he knows they can´t refuse.

So considering LF´s alliance to LF, Sansa is the ultimate bait. She will cause the rupture between Bolton and Lannister, and the Boltons will know that and will accept anyway because they have to, and she will most likely not even be harmed.

[Jarl Halstein]

Littlefinger. I never bought him as a villain. He looks like a stick figure in those long robes he likes to wear. I don't see why anyone would follow him in battle or make plans with him, he seems more fitting as a tortured artist with a beret on his head, to go with that mustache.

"Ma foi, ze painting, it is magnifique! And you my dear, you are magnifique as well! Perhaps you would...."

"Just shut up and pay me, I've already modeled the full hour."

[Puppy Stark]

Short answer is, it didn't. It was just showrunners trying to narrow down plotlines from the books and save some casting budget. Sansa have still to leave the Vale on the books.

[Solstice]

2 hours ago, Jarl Halstein said:

Littlefinger. I never bought him as a villain. He looks like a stick figure in those long robes he likes to wear. I don't see why anyone would follow him in battle or make plans with him, he seems more fitting as a tortured artist with a beret on his head, to go with that mustache.

"Ma foi, ze painting, it is magnifique! And you my dear, you are magnifique as well! Perhaps you would...."

"Just shut up and pay me, I've already modeled the full hour."

I laughed so much about this.  But it is true, at least in the show.

I hope his book counterpart wont make such stupid decisions.

[MoonWoman]

His "one true goal" is the Iron Throne first, then with "Sansa at his side". I don't think we should overstate his desire for Sansa when its really his desire for the throne that determines his actions. Not that it makes much more sense from that perspective, but perhaps a little. 

[Nerevanin]

It didn't. Classic show Littlefinger stupid behavior. His "goal" in this was to make the Boltons look as traitors but he risked too much by giving them the real Sansa. Not that his actions this episode were any better.

Sansa: "Hey, boo, thanks for saving my ass in the battle. Now you gained my trust again and I know that you did all this because you're a good guy."

Littlefinger: "The true is, Sansa, I just want to f**k you on the Iron Throne."

[Minuteman]

I think he expected and wanted Ramsay to kill Sansa and therefore extinguish the Stark line. He marries Sansa to the Boltons breaking their Lannister alliance (Roose was expecting a Lannister invasion after the wedding) and making them rebels. LF gets Cersei to grant him title as Warden of the North if he puts the Boltons down which, coupled with him already holding title over Harrenhal and regency of the Vale, puts him in a commanding position having the North, the Vale, and the Riverlands. But only if the Stark line goes out. He knew that the North would weaken under Bolton rule and was likely expecting to bring the Vale north under the pretense to avenge Sansa's murder and bring the king's justice to House Bolton. But Sansa escaped, Jon rebelled and was made king, and LFs plans are in ruin. He was shooting daggers at Sansa's rejecting and later at the KitN chanting. But who knows.

[JMJ]

Keep in mind also that LF made this plot to marry off Sansa to Ramsay when Roose was still head of the Bolton household and warden of the North. Best case, LF thought Roose might keep Ramsay somewhat in line, and that eventually this marriage would be ammunition for him to go to Cersei and get the blessing to take over Winterfell and become Warden himself, as the Boltons marrying Sansa would have been a betrayal in Cerise's eyes. 

But once Roose was killed and Sansa escaped, LF had to change his plans. Although I am guessing he planned to invade WF anyway with the Vale army, he may have changed his reasoning to the Knights of the Vale last minute. 

Or perhaps we are just giving show LF and the writers too much credit with all this speculation...

[NutBurz]

6 hours ago, JMJ said:

Or perhaps we are just giving show LF and the writers too much credit with all this speculation...

Thing is, the same way we have a large group of people reading and rereading plots looking eagerly for holes, so does any large television series production team. Of course we´re in larger number, with probably more time on our hands than they have. They have a lot more experience with what works on television though.

[LordPathera]

Because the plot says so

[Hol Horse]

Show-LF is an idiot. Nothin' more to it.

[GOTFanatic]

He did it to manipulate the Crown / Cersei into essentially defriending the Bolton's, he wanted the North for himself. His plan, as discussed with Cersei, was to let Stannis and the Bolton's fight, then come and clean up afterwards to get rid of them both. Cersei promised to make him Warden of the North if he followed through. If he didn't do this Lannister forces may have aided against Stannis' army, and he wouldn't have claim to the North at all. Of course he didn't forsee Jon's uprising and taking back of his home, so his plan didn't go according to .......plan!

It was genius and pivotal to the plot, how did people miss it?

[LordPathera]

30 minutes ago, GOTFanatic said:

He did it to manipulate the Crown / Cersei into essentially defriending the Bolton's, he wanted the North for himself. His plan, as discussed with Cersei, was to let Stannis and the Bolton's fight, then come and clean up afterwards to get rid of them both. Cersei promised to make him Warden of the North if he followed through. If he didn't do this Lannister forces may have aided against Stannis' army, and he wouldn't have claim to the North at all. Of course he didn't forsee Jon's uprising and taking back of his home, so his plan didn't go according to .......plan!

It was genius and pivotal to the plot, how did people miss it?

They don't miss it, they just rightly point out that it was stupid, unnecessary and that LF could have thought of a way better plan than hand Sansa over to get raped and tortured by the Boltons. And it's made more ridiculous by the notion that someone as well-informed and intelligent as Littlefinger wouldn't know about the Bolton's true nature or what he was throwing Sansa into.

[Bazil]

In the show they made him more power hungry and less of a pedophile than he is in the books. Quite frankly I don't think he'll do anything similar in the books.  It seems out of character for him.  Obviously he wanted Sansa ever since Caitlyn (his 1st one sided love) was lost.  Except with this one he has all the control (as he engineered) and he knows she's still a maiden.  It seems to me he wouldn't let a dog eat off his dinner plate before him (so to speak).  Sansa isn't just a pawn to him, she's the (proxy for) the love of his life.

[Nakraal]

With the backstory LF has I can't see him being motivated by gentle feelings. He tried that with Cat and he was mocked and brutalised. I can't see him pursuing power + love but power + revenge. Maybe even misanthropy.

 

So, I don't believe LF really loves Sansa. He just lies to her to make her do what he wants.

 

[Lord Pumpkin]

28 minutes ago, LordPathera said:

They don't miss it, they just rightly point out that it was stupid, unnecessary and that LF could have thought of a way better plan than hand Sansa over to get raped and tortured by the Boltons. And it's made more ridiculous by the notion that someone as well-informed and intelligent as Littlefinger wouldn't know about the Bolton's true nature or what he was throwing Sansa into.

Yeah, like giving away fArya to marry Ramsay. I read about that somewhere. In a book.

[Winter Is Overdue]

I still don't get why show-LF wants the Iron Throne. It doesn't fit for me. I've always thought of LF as someone who wants to be the ultimate puppetmaster, not the puppet. He'd want someone on the throne that he can manipulate and control, not to be on the throne himself.

[Iron Mother]

It's one thing at a time presents something unique.  The plan is to roam and see what's going on and how to use it.

He's very underestimated in skillz.  His method is perfect.  How to turn one major event into a platform for himself in ANY way.

The biggest whore ever on this show is Petyr.  And he does not look as shady as he is at all.  I find him very charming and seductive event... tho in the books his a little older, guy is sexy.   Sansa's a good trophy for him.