His name is.. (spoilers)

[purple-eyes]

18 hours ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

In the books, "Jon" was named after Jon Arryn, as Ned Stark was his ward and he loved and respected him.

No reason why his son with another woman couldn't also be named "Aegon". In Greek families, it's traditional to name the first born male child for the paternal grandfather.  In the case of the man taking another wife for whatever reason, I'm sure there are instances where the first male child from the second marriage has the same name as the first male child from the first marriage. 

Naming the son after the mad king doesn't seem plausible.

Talissa Stark wouldn't name her unborn child "Eddard" if she knew what happened to the last one, right? 

Yup.

Yup. Anyone arguing that the baby in that scene isn't Jon Snow doesn't know what they are talking about. also, they need to learn braille.

"Aejon" is a silly made up name that originated on these boards.  I'll be money it isn't "Aejon".

Targ is not based on Greek families and they never used same name for siblings in their whole history. in fact, in whole series, so far i do not remember there are same names for siblings, no matter first marriage or second marriage. If there is, please remind me, thank you. 

Aerys might be an option because he is after all rhaegar's father. you love your family unconditionally, right? his madness will not change whatever love rhaegar had for his daddy. just like cersei loved joff. 

 

[Smoke317]

29 minutes ago, dornishdragon said:

It's a difficult guess because the name part was the one with the worse sound of the entire conversation but I heard something ended in aerys. But Aerys would be a bad name and I think there's a prefix before aerys. This leaves Jaehaerys or Jacaerys as the two best options and both would have make sense because Jaehaerys was Rhaegar's grandfather and the first Targaryen thinking about the Profecy of the Prince that was Promised plus is a name associated with good kings. On the other hand Jacaerys was the first name of Jacaerys Velaryon son of Rhaenyra Targaryen that during the Dance of the Dragons made the pact of ice and fire with House Stark, Jon's current house. 

Just watched it 10 times on my iPad zoomed in with the closed captions on. Of course the close captions skips the "his name is". Then picks back up at "Robert will kill him". Anyway, her lips clearly look to say "Aer" and they never move with a first syllable. They only start with the "Aer". But I think this was done intentionally to create speculation and debate like we have here and maybe not to completely spoil the book that may come this year...  Key word there being may.  I don't believe that Rhaegar or Lyanna would choose Aerys. But I do like the idea of Jaehaerys. He was Rhaegar's grandfather and believed in TPTWP prophecy and made his son and daughter marry because TPTWP would come from their line. If it can't be Jaehaerys then I hope for Aemon because the Dragonknight was one the greatest and most noble knights in history and even stated that the greatest swordsman he ever fought was Cregan Stark.  Also concerning Jaehaerys, the first one reigned for 50 plus years (the longest) and is considered one of the wisest and greatest Targ Kings ever. Another possibility is Aerion who was Aegon, Visenya, and Rhaenys' father. 

[purple-eyes]

to be honest, it is far more likely to be aemon than anything else. 

there are quite a few foreshadows in the book. 

and rhaegar had a close relationship with maester aemon too. 

this reminded me Daena named her bastard son as Daemon. 

History repeats, right? 

 

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

7 minutes ago, purple-eyes said:

Targ is not based on Greek families and they never used same name for siblings in their whole history. in fact, in whole series, so far i do not remember there are same names for siblings, no matter first marriage or second marriage. If there is, please remind me, thank you. 

Aerys might be an option because he is after all rhaegar's father. you love your family unconditionally, right? his madness will not change whatever love rhaegar had for his daddy. just like cersei loved joff. 

 

Targayans aren't greeks? No shit? Obvoiusly not the point I was trying to make.

There's also not much historical precedent for the members of the Targaryan royal house marrying anything other than siblings or cousins, So there are a few novel innovations going on here.

http://www.genealogytoday.com/genealogy/answers/How_common_it_is_for_siblings_to_have_the_same_first_name.html

 

[purple-eyes]

4 minutes ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

Targayans aren't greeks? No shit? Obvoiusly not the point I was trying to make.

There's also not much historical precedent for the members of the Targaryan royal house marrying anything other than siblings or cousins, So there are a few novel innovations going on here.

http://www.genealogytoday.com/genealogy/answers/How_common_it_is_for_siblings_to_have_the_same_first_name.html

 

what? there are many cases that targ marry somebody other than siblings and cousins. did you ever read the World book? 

so you found in the reality some people use same name for siblings, then this can prove targ also does this? what kind of logic is this? 

[ssls6]

I'm starting to think Jon is not a Targaryan.  Lyanna was stolen by a Targ but a child by any father would be a target of Roberts just because of who stole her.  It wouldn't matter who she claimed the father was, Robert would assume the child to be a Targ.  The line "Robert would kill him" can't be taken as proof in my opinion.  Maybe she was saying "Arthur" and not "Aegon, Aemon, A...."

[GreenSeeress]

I've watched the scene about 15 times with the sound turned up maximum, and there is definitely an "ae" sound at or near the beginning.  I'm not a lip reader, and she is shown in profile to boot, so I can't tell if the "ae" is preceded by something or not.  The muffled part of her speech seems to end with an "s" sound.  Is the "s" sound part of the name or something else, like "he's Rhaegar's"? I don't know.  It is hard to believe Lyanna would name him Aerys, nor do I think Rhaegar himself would want to saddle a potential heir with that name, however much he may have still loved his father. 

I've seen the article suggesting Jaehaerys. Although it's hard to tell whether there is another syllable preceding the "ae" sound, maybe the "h" is soft and it sounds more like "Jaerys"?  

In the meantime, have you seen this infographic from the official HBO MakingGameofThrones.com blog? It confirms, for those who were saying that the scene only confirmed the identity of Jon's mother, that Rhaegar is his father.

http://www.makinggameofthrones.com/production-diary/got-connections-ned-promise-tower-of-joy-infographic

[TheGreatStallion]

Hey Guys I used to agree with Aemon since Aegon was already taken, but i find this on REDDIT and I thought it actually made a lot of sense and I was surprised nobody mentioned it.

The guy actually explains in the link  (you can find at the end of the comment) that it might be Jaehaerys. Jaehaerys I,was  known as the wise king. It makes sense since we cannot really see the difference in pronouncing 'ae' and "Jae" from that camera angle. 

For a lot of other reasons like Jaehaerys used to be the wise king, the one who brought peace to the realm and the one who gave the land known as 'the gift' to the NW.

Besides that, Jaehaerys is one who received the prophecy.

For the record none of this is mine, the link is here:

https://www.reddit.com/r/gameofthrones/comments/4q9u0v/everything_his_name_is_the_true_meaning_of_j/

English is not my native language so I apologize for any mistakes you can find.

[TheGreatStallion]

15 minutes ago, GreenSeeress said:

I've watched the scene about 15 times with the sound turned up maximum, and there is definitely an "ae" sound at or near the beginning.  I'm not a lip reader, and she is shown in profile to boot, so I can't tell if the "ae" is preceded by something or not.  The muffled part of her speech seems to end with an "s" sound.  Is the "s" sound part of the name or something else, like "he's Rhaegar's"? I don't know.  It is hard to believe Lyanna would name him Aerys, nor do I think Rhaegar himself would want to saddle a potential heir with that name, however much he may have still loved his father. 

I've seen the article suggesting Jaehaerys. Although it's hard to tell whether there is another syllable preceding the "ae" sound, maybe the "h" is soft and it sounds more like "Jaerys"?  

In the meantime, have you seen this infographic from the official HBO MakingGameofThrones.com blog? It confirms, for those who were saying that the scene only confirmed the identity of Jon's mother, that Rhaegar is his father.

http://www.makinggameofthrones.com/production-diary/got-connections-ned-promise-tower-of-joy-infographic

Sorry I think we posted at the same time so I did not see we posted about the same subject

And good finding !!! I think you just brought the answer everyone was looking for and That concludes the Debate,

WELL done GreenSeeress

[GreenSeeress]

TheGreatStallion, yes, I think our posts crossed. Aemon would make sense except for that "s" sound. I do think its Jaehaerys, but sadly we'll have to wait at least 10 months to find out!  Unless of course, GRRM publishes "The Winds of Winter" between now and next season!

[purple-eyes]

it is aenys! 

Son of aegon I the dragon lord. 

 

 

[TheGreatStallion]

5 minutes ago, GreenSeeress said:

TheGreatStallion, yes, I think our posts crossed. Aemon would make sense except for that "s" sound. I do think its Jaehaerys, but sadly we'll have to wait at least 10 months to find out!  Unless of course, GRRM publishes "The Winds of Winter" between now and next season!

Yeah I feel you, Let's hope Winds of Winter come this year !!! 

I also think it can either be Jaehearys or Aemon, but maybe it doesn't matter at all actually, if nobody but Bran knows...Can't wait for the book

[MtnLion]

22 hours ago, Smoke317 said:

Yeah. Them being at the tower hints that they were protecting someone. And maybe Lyanna was too ill to be moved. But that seems like a long time to stay in such an isolated place. Maybe they figured Varys birds could find out they were at Starfall so it was best to stay isolated. It just seems like an odd place to protect a king. But you were very thorough in your breakdown. Brings back great memories. Would love to read the ToJ story in full written by Martin. Perhaps we will get it in a vision by Bran in Winds. So even outnumbered, you think the KG would dispatch Ned's crew. So, just your opinion, what do you think happened that helped the 7 beat the 3?  Were they just that good?

The gods and small things can affect fights.  Based on track history, though, any one of the three should have been entirely capable of taking on Ned and all of his buddies, singlehandedly.  We just need to accept that GRRM is telling us true, and that he has a reason for what happened. 

Thanks for the props.  There have been many tweaks along the way, concessions, and clarifying points.  GRRM obviously labored over that snippet of prose for a long time, getting it just right.  It had to be honest for those that knew the ending, to be satisfying during a reread.  Yet, it needed to be vague enough to not give away details, too soon. 

[Puppy Stark]

I'm talking about some book stuff here, so I'll put it under spoiler tags.

Spoiler

I was just reading through some wiki pages, and I got one that reminded me that when Dany has her vision in the House of the Undying, Rhaegar is telling "Ellia" about their son, Aegon, and how his would be the song of ice and fire and etc. We always assumed he was talking about Rhaegar's firstborn son, which is actually called Aegon, but now in the wake of this episode, could it really be Jon? I mean, for me it's fairly obvious Jon is a name given by Eddard, paying homage to Jon Arryn. So Rhaegar and Lyanna might have given him another name, and as giving his son (even a bastard) a Targaryen name would surely draw suspicion, Ned would rather just rename him. Also, it's been a while since I read A Clash of Kings, and I don't remember it's really clear that the woman with Rhaegar was Ellia, or if Dany just assumed it was because it's his wife. It might be it was Lyanna on the vision all along.

So, the whole fAegon thing (which isn't even in the show) coming out end up being a a typical bait and switch, when you think about it.

 

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

1 hour ago, purple-eyes said:

what? there are many cases that targ marry somebody other than siblings and cousins. did you ever read the World book? 

so you found in the reality some people use same name for siblings, then this can prove targ also does this? what kind of logic is this? 

Seriously? I'm presenting it as definitive proof. I never claimed to present it as definitive proof, I'm using those examples to demonstrate it plausibility. In the absence of more evidence, arguing plausibility is all anyone on the board can possibly do. Get it?

This is you.

Quote

i have not seen targ used the name of a dead baby again for his or her immediate siblings. remember how many dead babies before and after rhaegar from rhaella? did they pick up name like jaeharys or daeron for rhaegar or viserys? it is a matter of respect for a living person, for a life. even a still born baby should have a name, please. for example, visenya still born daughter of rhaenyra, etc. 

i can not believe jon has a targ name as aegon. this is unreasonable. 

and yeah, you heard wrongly. it is not aegon. 

If "There's no precedent for it and It just seems too weird to me" is an argument, Everything I've presented here is an argument too.

[Smoke317]

1 hour ago, MtnLion said:

The gods and small things can affect fights.  Based on track history, though, any one of the three should have been entirely capable of taking on Ned and all of his buddies, singlehandedly.  We just need to accept that GRRM is telling us true, and that he has a reason for what happened. 

Thanks for the props.  There have been many tweaks along the way, concessions, and clarifying points.  GRRM obviously labored over that snippet of prose for a long time, getting it just right.  It had to be honest for those that knew the ending, to be satisfying during a reread.  Yet, it needed to be vague enough to not give away details, too soon. 

We all know Howland spent time on the Isle of Faces just before the tourney of Harrenhal. Let's say he was given a glimpse or vision of the promised one and the Great War to come. Is it possible that he stopped Ned from killing Arthur Dayne by maybe shouting out "I know of the prophecy of The Prince that was Promised". And explained to Arthur that Ned meant Jon no harm and would actually help keep Jon safe???  Now that I think of it, probably not. It seemed like the KG felt it was their duty to die in the service of their King. And with both Rhaegar and Aerys dead, what else was their to live for?  I guess Jon. But could they/he/Arthur care for him better than Ned?

[Daemon The Black Dragon]

The look on Ned's face was a "oh sh*t" look to me. Aemon Targaryen would make sense to me. 

[purple-eyes]

55 minutes ago, Puppy Stark said:

I'm talking about some book stuff here, so I'll put it under spoiler tags.

  Reveal hidden contents

I was just reading through some wiki pages, and I got one that reminded me that when Dany has her vision in the House of the Undying, Rhaegar is telling "Ellia" about their son, Aegon, and how his would be the song of ice and fire and etc. We always assumed he was talking about Rhaegar's firstborn son, which is actually called Aegon, but now in the wake of this episode, could it really be Jon? I mean, for me it's fairly obvious Jon is a name given by Eddard, paying homage to Jon Arryn. So Rhaegar and Lyanna might have given him another name, and as giving his son (even a bastard) a Targaryen name would surely draw suspicion, Ned would rather just rename him. Also, it's been a while since I read A Clash of Kings, and I don't remember it's really clear that the woman with Rhaegar was Ellia, or if Dany just assumed it was because it's his wife. It might be it was Lyanna on the vision all along.

So, the whole fAegon thing (which isn't even in the show) coming out end up being a a typical bait and switch, when you think about it.

 

grrm already confirmed it is elia with baby aegon. and rhaegar died at trident before jon was born. unless his ghost can play harp, then, no, it is not lyanna or jon. 

[Iron Mother]

Jaehhaerys - What would Ned call it?  Anything with J will suffice.  Jaestynaeys?

[Iron Mother]

3 hours ago, purple-eyes said:

what? there are many cases that targ marry somebody other than siblings and cousins. did you ever read the World book? 

so you found in the reality some people use same name for siblings, then this can prove targ also does this? what kind of logic is this? 

The World Book is the history of all the known world.  They did it often.  But was not as heavy at that time.  The man wives of European kings  And even has wife Targ on one side and someone else on the other.  Breeding The Dragon but keeping it new also.