dsug Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 I think some people are overestimating the power a couple of poor, starving, unarmed commoners. Even if the people hate her, which they probably do, they cannot do shit against a rich, brutal queen with an army of soldiers, explosives, and a fucking undead assassin. Theres a BIG difference between not liking someone's rule and having the ability/desire/death wish to overthrow her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkstream Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 6 hours ago, mattpeto said: D&D work nearly all year around to make 10 episodes per year (until Season 7/8). Maybe you should just think about that - when you squabble over dialogue that should be improved or storylines that feel fragmented. This is a high quality show. Period. They produce 10 hours of television per year with dozens of main characters, plotlines, CGI battles and battles with extras. The stuff the showrunners to me especially in the time period they do, are simply amazing. While you rip the showrunners, they are already hard on Season 7 outlines, even for less episodes. Every season, they send the outlines to GRRM for feedback. I'm rooting for GRRM to finish TWOW by this time next year, so he can write an episode in S8 (and not just give feedback on the outlines). I have no doubt that GRRM is laboring over every detail in TWOW. It's a great think for us book readers to some degree, we should get an incredible product. But he has infinitely more time than D&D to ironclad his story now. I find this to be a weak and lame excuse. Laughable really, the type of deviations and cringworthy, adolescent dialogue that d$d have given us have nothing to do with time constraints or being overburdened. The countless number of quality programs with the same time restrictions would render this argument invalid. And I have seen a substantial number of posters on this very forum, that in a few minutes, have come up with far more acceptable variations and more intellectual, witty dialogue than has been presented on the show. Even if I were to concede to this ridiculous excuse, d$d have the highest budget ever allotted to a television program in history. Here's a novel idea, d$d should hire some competent writers, instead of pandering to their petty and fragile ego's that can't accept the fact that their success has been solely due to GRRM's source material and fan base. They are desperately trying to prove that they are better writers than GRRM, out of pure jealousy, and making themselves look like talentless hacks in the process. Maybe you should think about that when you try to defend this show, which is an undeniable abomination of the source material that it's suppose to be adapting. d$d are terrible writers, period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsug Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 8 minutes ago, Darkstream said: I find this to be a weak and lame excuse. Laughable really, the type of deviations and cringworthy, adolescent dialogue that d$d have given us have nothing to do with time constraints or being overburdened. The countless number of quality programs with the same time restrictions would render this argument invalid. And I have seen a substantial number of posters on this very forum, that in a few minutes, have come up with far more acceptable variations and more intellectual, witty dialogue than has been presented on the show. Even if I were to concede to this ridiculous excuse, d$d have the highest budget ever allotted to a television program in history. Here's a novel idea, d$d should hire some competent writers, instead of pandering to their petty and fragile ego's that can't accept the fact that their success has been solely due to GRRM's source material and fan base. They are desperately trying to prove that they are better writers than GRRM, out of pure jealousy, and making themselves look like talentless hacks in the process. Maybe you should think about that when you try to defend this show, which is an undeniable abomination of the source material that it's suppose to be adapting. d$d are terrible writers, period. $Thanks$for$sharing$ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkstream Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 9 minutes ago, dsug said: $Thanks$for$sharing$ You are very welcome, it was my pleasure. It's always nice when someone takes the time to express their gratitude. Thank$. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattpeto Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 Well I respect your POV. I just disagree with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StepStark Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 1 hour ago, El Guapo said: Yes we do. They changed Jeyne Westerling to Talisa because George asked them to since it was a completely different character. They also did the same thing with Vargo Hoat by changing him to Locke. That is two that what we know of and there certainly could be others. Oh and Cogman was joking about the peach thing. JFC you guys takes things so seriously. Congratulations, you proved me wrong, they did change something because of his interventions. Now, can we start talking adults, please? Can we stick to the things that like matter? Because, you know, asking them to change the characters' names because they changed everything the essence of those characters is really not the sign of any influence George has over D&D. It's the opposite, in fact. It shows how little influence he has on the show, if the only things they "listened" him was to at least leave out the names of his characters because of all the changes they made. About Cogman, no he wasn't joking, at least not that time, I know what joke you're talking about, but that's not what I was talking about. The "we couldn't find a peach" answer actually came after the "joke", as the real answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StepStark Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 1 hour ago, mattpeto said: You keep imaging this huge Wall between GRRM and D&D and Cogman if it makes you feel better. Too bad they actually like each other. Here's a pic bro: http://www.ew.com/sites/default/files/styles/tout_image_612x380/public/1442855409/hbo-party-9999.jpg?itok=Zh4D_6H9 From GRRM blog in September 2015, (following up the season that divulged most from his written books too) Starting with David Benioff and Dan Weiss themselves. Without them, there would be no show. Without their talent and dedication, there would certainly be no Emmy. Also, I want to thank Bryan Cogman. He's been there since the beginning too, the right hand man to D&D, and he's written some of our best episodes. I am thrilled that when we finally won, it was for a year in which he'd finally snagged a "producer" credit, which meant that he got to take home a trophy as well. http://grrm.livejournal.com/tag/emmy awards "When George told us, we were like wow" -Shireen sacrificing/-Origin of Hodor Yes he's not involved at all and has no input. [/Sarcasm] Oh boy, again with the drama. What wall are you talking about? What is your point, really? You're saying that they are one big happy family, right? Well guess what, I don't care. I don't think they are nearly as friendly as their public statements suggest, but as I said already, I don't care one way or another. George can love D&D to death, but it doesn't change the fact that they are terrible writers and easily the weakest link in the chain that is GOT. I was just talking about how much they care for his story and his approval, which is, I'm sure you'll agree, a completely different subject. And about the input, please tell me how is it that Coldhands is Benjen in the show, when in fact we do know that he isn't in the books? Is that one more example of D&D heeding to George's advice? LOL!!! And please, tell me, do you really not see that Shireen in the books can never burn as she did in the show? There is not even the slightest chance that Stannis burns her because of a blizzard. For one, she's not in the freaking march to begin with! She won't be sacrificed for the battle against Boltons! At least that's for sure. So again, how is it that they heed to George's input? LOL! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkstream Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 20 minutes ago, mattpeto said: Well I respect your POV. I just disagree with it. I can live with that, and likewise to you. I realize my post may have been somewhat snarky towards you, but that's how I perceived your comments towards me, if that was not your intention, I apologize. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkstream Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 On 6/30/2016 at 6:58 AM, aFeastForDragons said: They may work all year round and get 60-100 million dollars for each season but they can't be bothered to pay someone $10 to look over a script for glaring plot holes, inconsistent story telling and awful lazy dialogue? That does not make a high quality show. Period. That's the issue with d$d, it's not that they are unable to do this, but they refuse to. Not only have they show themselves to be too arrogant to listen to any feed back, but they don't care about inconsistencies and a plausible plot, because then they wouldn't be able to do what they wanted creatively. It's all about the big payoff scene, who cares if it makes any sense, as long as it's shocking and looks bad-ass. As far as the dialogue, I think they actually believe that it is good. It would be like going into a frat house and telling a bunch of the drunken members that their jokes are immature and not funny. You would get your ass kicked and find yourself naked and duct taped to the uprights in a football field. This is just their level of sophistication. I mean, for someone to assert that lines such as Play with her arse, You want the bad pussy, and smells like pussy are a result of being over burdened and having to meet deadlines is absolutely preposterous. No competent or respectable professional writer should be coming up with lines like this under any circumstances. d$d's immature, lowbrow dialogue wouldn't even be intelligent enough to make it in to a movie like Porky's https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWmtDAIK03M Quote No they don't. You just made that up. I constantly see people making things like this up. No George is not a producer. Not he does not have a bat phone to answer all their questions. No he does not look over the scripts. No he is not involved in the writing of the show now. I think d$d call it the bat-finger phone. Supplied by Weisseross's leading supplier of prostitutes, rape victims, and anachronistic technology. And yeah, saying that GRRM has anything to do with the writing of the show anymore is just a sad attempt to defend d$d's abysmal writing by trying to scapegoat George. Which, if you've read the books, you should know is a ridiculous notion to even consider. It's funny that all attempts to defend the show always start with denial, and then lead to the blame game. I guess the d's should have picked a better series to adapt than ASOIAF, obviously the source material is just holding back the deep and profound writing in the minds of the two genius's responsible for comments like Creatively it made sense because we wanted it to happen, and Themes are for eighth grade book reports. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsug Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 Rip thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PirateVergo Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 Cersei sitting on the throne is bollocks and just another proof of D&D feminist agenda. I honestly think very little of what happened in the show has anything to do with the books, no way Doran get killed off by Ellaria as it was also another feminist bullsnit from D&D to kill one of the most interesting and competent rulers in ASOIAF so they could make women take control of Dorne. Also no way that the North conflict play out the same as Sansa isn't even involved in it and it's unlikely the Vale even put their heads into that mess, I believe Stannis won't die and neither will Roose, no need to force a Jon vs Ramsay storyline by killing off the more competent leaders that are on each of their sides. The only storyline I believe will be very similar to the show one is Danerys', other than that I'm expecting a totally different story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkstream Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 10 hours ago, El Guapo said: Yes we do. They changed Jeyne Westerling to Talisa because George asked them to since it was a completely different character. They also did the same thing with Vargo Hoat by changing him to Locke. That is two that what we know of and there certainly could be others. Are you serious? This supports the argument against you substantially more than it supports your argument. So your proof that GRRM has control is the fact that he got them to change the characters names, because they falsely represented the characters from the books? If he asked them to change the names, he was obviously upset with the changes, and helpless to stop them from doing so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Guapo Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 5 minutes ago, Darkstream said: Are you serious? This supports the argument against you substantially more than it supports your argument. So your proof that GRRM has control is the fact that he got them to change the characters names, because they falsely represented the characters from the books? If he asked them to change the names, he was obviously upset with the changes, and helpless to stop them from doing so. I never said George had control of anything. Please show me where I wrote this. Here is a hint you won't find it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkstream Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 9 minutes ago, El Guapo said: I never said George had control of anything. Please show me where I wrote this. Here is a hint you won't find it. Ah, I stand corrected, wrong poster. But is that not the assertion you were making with your rebuttal to someone that was disputing this? If not, I'm curious as to what your point was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkstream Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 10 hours ago, mattpeto said: You keep imaging this huge Wall between GRRM and D&D and Cogman if it makes you feel better. Too bad they actually like each other. Here's a pic bro: http://www.ew.com/sites/default/files/styles/tout_image_612x380/public/1442855409/hbo-party-9999.jpg?itok=Zh4D_6H9 From GRRM blog in September 2015, (following up the season that divulged most from his written books too) Starting with David Benioff and Dan Weiss themselves. Without them, there would be no show. Without their talent and dedication, there would certainly be no Emmy. Also, I want to thank Bryan Cogman. He's been there since the beginning too, the right hand man to D&D, and he's written some of our best episodes. I am thrilled that when we finally won, it was for a year in which he'd finally snagged a "producer" credit, which meant that he got to take home a trophy as well. http://grrm.livejournal.com/tag/emmy awards "When George told us, we were like wow" -Shireen sacrificing/-Origin of Hodor Yes he's not involved at all and has no input. [/Sarcasm] How is this proof of anything? You have heard of the concepts of professional courtesy and respect, as well as public relations haven't you? Why do you think GRRM has gone silent on the subject of the show and his relationship with d$d? He's even been pushed to the point of getting upset with people for continually bringing the subject up on his not a blog. I wonder why the onset of this disposition was concurrent with the show starting to make large diversions from the books, and him stepping away as a writer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkstream Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 9 hours ago, StepStark said: And please, tell me, do you really not see that Shireen in the books can never burn as she did in the show? There is not even the slightest chance that Stannis burns her because of a blizzard. For one, she's not in the freaking march to begin with! She won't be sacrificed for the battle against Boltons! At least that's for sure. So again, how is it that they heed to George's input? LOL! And certainly not because of one that lasts for a day or so, and only brings about three inches of snow that melts by the next episode. And definitely, certainly not when said blizzard only happens within an hours ride of Winterfell. Poor Shireen, if only Stannis had marched a tiny bit more, just over the crest of the next hill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zombies That Were Promised Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 3 hours ago, PirateVergo said: Cersei sitting on the throne is bollocks and just another proof of D&D feminist agenda. Oh lawd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HairGrowsBack Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 3 hours ago, PirateVergo said: Cersei sitting on the throne is bollocks and just another proof of D&D faux feminist-pandering agenda. FTFY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SerMixalot Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 On 6/30/2016 at 9:10 AM, HairGrowsBack said: I can't believe they only have four people writing for a show that has so many characters and plots, no wonder they're killing off everyone. In season 6, D&D wrote 7 of the 10 episodes. Given their other massive responsibilities that is an incredible amount of work to accomplish and in my opinion why the show suffers so greatly, especially in plotholes, inconsistencies and horrid dialogue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SerMixalot Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 21 hours ago, Darkstream said: I don't see this being a possibility at all. GRRM has stated in the past that he would never change things due to people figuring out mysteries such as Jon's parentage and so forth. Why would he change things just because d$d have given us a dumbed down version of these already speculated plot points, which (d$d) do not acurately portray or capture the relevant meanings, themes or purpose of. I would also note that these event are likely all going to occur early in WOW, or not at all, so it's not like they will spoil the whole book or the ending. And simply put, GRRM does not write like that, he's not going to change major plot points, and ignore thousands of pages of meticulous setup and foreshadowing, just to have a shocking spectacle moment as d$d constantly do. Unlike in the show, it's the journey that matters, not some gratuitous and sensationalist scene used to hypnotize the audience into forgetting the rubbish that they have been watching. I don't feel like the reveals from this season spoiled anything for me. There wasn't one plot point confirmed that I wasn't already expecting, or believe will go down in an even remotely similar fashion to that of the books. Knowing some of the broad strokes of what will happen will not take away from the anticipation and excitement of reading a WOW for me, as well as, I'm sure, the vast majority of ASOIAF fans. As for the casual fan base, whom likely haven't even read the books, why would GRRM even consider altering his magnum opus to cater to them? hmmm who's artistic integrity do I trust more? GRRM and his painstaking commitment to detail and consistency who has been respectful about the abomination that has been this adaption who obviously loves his the piece of work that he will be known for for generations or the duo who brought us a man sticking his finger in another man's asshole and calling it entertainment? hmmmmmmmmmm that is a tough one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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