Lord of Nutella

Jaimie finally gonna kill Cersei now?

81 posts in this topic

On 6/27/2016 at 4:57 AM, Danelle said:

I thought that the reason why the valonqar part was omitted was similar to why TOJ was only featured in S6 and the vast majority of Dany's visions at the HOTU were altered: it would have been too obvious for the audience to guess and predict the outcome of the plot.

Seriously Dany sees a man sitting on a throne, his head belongs to a wolf and he wears a crown. Shortly afterwards King Robb is invited to a wedding.

 

It would have been so easy for the viewers to understand what would happen to Robb.

That depends. If the wolf head was just stitched on like what really happened to Robb, then yes that would be obvious. However, if the wolf was alive and blended into the body well (or most likely was covered by armor or whatever), then no, I don't think people would have suspected that Robb would be murdered and had his head replaced by Grey Wind's. They'd probably just think it was Robb (or Jon). Logic (or at least logic as it applies to prophecies/visions...) would say that the wolf head should be dead even in the vision, but eh. That 'rule' easily be broken. 

IMO, at least. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, braveniler58 said:

That depends. If the wolf head was just stitched on like what really happened to Robb, then yes that would be obvious. However, if the wolf was alive and blended into the body well (or most likely was covered by armor or whatever), then no, I don't think people would have suspected that Robb would be murdered and had his head replaced by Grey Wind's. They'd probably just think it was Robb (or Jon). Logic (or at least logic as it applies to prophecies/visions...) would say that the wolf head should be dead even in the vision, but eh. That 'rule' easily be broken. 

IMO, at least. 

An interesting conversation, and it's all just a matter of subjective opinion of course, but a strong irony here is that that prophecy was a highly unusually literal one  (Robb's head was literally removed and literally, physically replaced with that of his direwolf) 

This is ironic b/c I believe a lot of people would have dismissed such a literal interpretation as being unlikely, just as many people (including me) have believed for many years that Tyrion is NOT the Valonqar, just b/c it's "too obvious."

Edited by Cron

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Cron said:

An interesting conversation, and it's all just a matter of subjective opinion of course, but a strong irony here is that that prophecy was a highly unusually literal one  (Robb's head was literally removed and literally, physically replaced with that of his direwolf) 

This is ironic b/c I believe a lot of people would have dismissed such a literal interpretation as being unlikely, just as many people (including me) have believed for many years that Tyrion is NOT the Valonqar, just b/c it's "too obvious."

Yeah, I agree, the literal propechy is actually exactly why I thought it'd work. I've waffled on the whole Tyrion/Jaime = valonqar thing. It's most likely Jaime, but I really wouldn't be surprised if it was Tyrion. 

I'm 100% sure there are ways of showing literal prophecies without too obviously giving anything away. If the theory of Daenerys dying once she fights the White Walkers is true, then that HotU vision of her seeing Drogo and Rhaego after going beyond the Wall is a good way to do that. Robb with an animated/alive wolf's head would also be a good way of showing Robb's death. 

I love the idea of prophecies that are literal but don't seem it. it's awesome. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, braveniler58 said:

Yeah, I agree, the literal propechy is actually exactly why I thought it'd work. I've waffled on the whole Tyrion/Jaime = valonqar thing. It's most likely Jaime, but I really wouldn't be surprised if it was Tyrion. 

I'm 100% sure there are ways of showing literal prophecies without too obviously giving anything away. If the theory of Daenerys dying once she fights the White Walkers is true, then that HotU vision of her seeing Drogo and Rhaego after going beyond the Wall is a good way to do that. Robb with an animated/alive wolf's head would also be a good way of showing Robb's death. 

I love the idea of prophecies that are literal but don't seem it. it's awesome. 

Interesting, I hadn't heard about theories that Dany will die after the WW war, I'll have to try to find time to look into that.

I've always strongly assumed she will survive the entire series, but maybe I'm wrong.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, braveniler58 said:

I love the idea of prophecies that are literal but don't seem it. it's awesome. 

What makes it more awesome is that you don't get it until you rewatch it seasons later. The first time you see the HoTU scenes, you don't get it.The only thing you get is that the warlocks were trying to lure Dany to a trap by offering her desires and such like the Iron Throne and Drogo in the tent. But then after few seasons later and you go back to the HoTU scene, now it all make sense. It's more than just a simple trap to lure Dany. It's all foreshadowing what it's to come for Dany's fate and it's not all literal entirely like you mentioned and it's symbolic. The Iron Throne scene with the ruin Red Keep and snow in it - foreshadow the WW's invasion. Dany not touching the Iron Throne and walk away from it - foreshadow that Dany will not sit on it. The Wall Dany walked through - the hint of Dany and her dragons vs the WW. And finally the Dany. Drogo, and Rhaego scene - indicate that Dany will die and reunite with her beloved family, the family and home that Dany always desire for.

This is what makes GoT awesome. Most scenes you felt it's boring or just simple until you rewatch it.

Edited by The Arthur Smith

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Cron said:

Interesting, I hadn't heard about theories that Dany will die after the WW war, I'll have to try to find time to look into that.

I've always strongly assumed she will survive the entire series, but maybe I'm wrong.

Me too, I've always thought Daenerys would survive the series, mostly due to two things - her long journey alone in Essos while everyone else was in Westeros (apart from Arya for a bit), and her being one of the final five in GRRM's original outline (this is the main reason why I think Sansa will die since she's not one of those five), but that theory has me slightly convinced. I'm not sure. I really hope not, though. I love her. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, braveniler58 said:

Me too, I've always thought Daenerys would survive the series, mostly due to two things - her long journey alone in Essos while everyone else was in Westeros (apart from Arya for a bit), and her being one of the final five in GRRM's original outline (this is the main reason why I think Sansa will die since she's not one of those five), but that theory has me slightly convinced. I'm not sure. I really hope not, though. I love her. 

Oh, this is interesting too.

I think I've vaguely heard about such an outline, but I didn't realize there's a "final five."

Do you recall who they are?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 8/16/2016 at 8:12 PM, Cron said:

Oh, this is interesting too.

I think I've vaguely heard about such an outline, but I didn't realize there's a "final five."

Do you recall who they are?

Spoiler

Yes, the final five were Daenerys, Jon, Arya, Bran, and Tyrion. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
26 minutes ago, braveniler58 said:
  Reveal hidden contents

Yes, the final five were Daenerys, Jon, Arya, Bran, and Tyrion. 

 

Hey, great, thanks for the information!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think Euron is the valonqar (sp?). Maggy said the little brother not your little brother.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It'd be pretty damn poetic if Jaime killed her, so yeah I think he will. Its a pretty perfect end for both their arcs unless Jaime somehow survives Dany's invasion of KL, which is highly doubtful.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/27/2016 at 11:07 PM, Adam141414 said:

If Jamie kills Cersei he is left with nothing. He said to Edmure he would slaughter every man, woman and babe to get back to her. So if he kills her it wouldn't be to save others like he killed the Mad King. I thought then, maybe if she become something horrible, Jamie would kill her out of mercy. But Jamie sad he loves her despite Cersei being a hateful woman. 

If Jamie killed her, it would be because her personality has transcended into something beyond hateful that not even Jamie  could accept. Cersei would have to really fly off the deep end for Jamie to kill her. 

I think Cersei letting Tommen die would be enough to push Jaime over the edge. And who knows at this point Jaime may think that Cersei killed Tommen to finally sit on the throne. They didn't really have Jaime convey his opinion when he got back all he did was stare at Cersei as she was being crowned. Guess we'll find out next season.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am surprised at how for the most part the most obvious thing in this story arc this season has escaped a lot of attention. Cersei Betrayed Jaime the show made it perfectly clear that Jaime was the one that knew about the caches of wildfire the mad king had hidden underneath the city. we see maester qyburn informing Cersei that "that old rumor you told me about" was indeed true, there was no rumor the only person that knew about the caches of wildfire was Jaime and the people Jaime confided in, we learn from a scene between Tyrion and Daenerys that Jaime had told Tyrion too. The show has made it abundantly clear that the secret of the mad kings plan was Jaimes secret so when Jaime returned to kings landing and discovered that Cersei had made him a part in a massacre he was horrified add on top of that the fact she caused the death of his son Tommen someone Jaime  believed to be good he could see what she has become a mad Queen. The show has made a mess of Jaimes character in the novels he is incredibly complex and his character is on a redemption arc, having said that the only major issue I took with the shows characterization was having him kill his cousin in cold blood the reason I take issue with that is Jaime it can be argued only ever did horrific things in the books for the greater good ie pushing Bran out the window, if his relationship with Cersei had been discovered it would've meant certain death for them all including their children. Jaimes character is contrasted by two different women , Cersei his twin and person that is almost like a part of him she brings out the worst in him to the point were it is almost impossible to know what Jaime would do because she is so controlling and manipulative. Brienne is another woman that provides a sharp contrast to Jaimes character she always puts honor first as Jaime should've if it weren't for his relationship with Cersei corrupting him, it is really interesting the symbolism of Jaime having his sword hand chopped off while he was with Brienne it is almost as though Cersei had been cut from him and he and Brienne come together to form the perfect knight, I say that because Jaime is a heroic character and accepting dishonor to do the right thing is something Brienne didn't understand until she met Jaime. I bring all of this up because it seems clear that Brienne is a replacement for Cersei in Jaimes life and if you take that as a given then Cersei must be completely removed from his life and if you follow that train of thought, Brienne is a device to turn Jaime against Cersei. 

Edited by darksellsword

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On ‎10‎/‎1‎/‎2016 at 0:32 PM, darksellsword said:

I am surprised at how for the most part the most obvious thing in this story arc this season has escaped a lot of attention. Cersei Betrayed Jaime the show made it perfectly clear that Jaime was the one that knew about the caches of wildfire the mad king had hidden underneath the city. we see maester qyburn informing Cersei that "that old rumor you told me about" was indeed true, there was no rumor the only person that knew about the caches of wildfire was Jaime and the people Jaime confided in, we learn from a scene between Tyrion and Daenerys that Jaime had told Tyrion too. The show has made it abundantly clear that the secret of the mad kings plan was Jaimes secret so when Jaime returned to kings landing and discovered that Cersei had made him a part in a massacre he was horrified add on top of that the fact she caused the death of his son Tommen someone Jaime  believed to be good he could see what she has become a mad Queen. The show has made a mess of Jaimes character in the novels he is incredibly complex and his character is on a redemption arc, having said that the only major issue I took with the shows characterization was having him kill his cousin in cold blood the reason I take issue with that is Jaime it can be argued only ever did horrific things in the books for the greater good ie pushing Bran out the window, if his relationship with Cersei had been discovered it would've meant certain death for them all including their children. Jaimes character is contrasted by two different women , Cersei his twin and person that is almost like a part of him she brings out the worst in him to the point were it is almost impossible to know what Jaime would do because she is so controlling and manipulative. Brienne is another woman that provides a sharp contrast to Jaimes character she always puts honor first as Jaime should've if it weren't for his relationship with Cersei corrupting him, it is really interesting the symbolism of Jaime having his sword hand chopped off while he was with Brienne it is almost as though Cersei had been cut from him and he and Brienne come together to form the perfect knight, I say that because Jaime is a heroic character and accepting dishonor to do the right thing is something Brienne didn't understand until she met Jaime. I bring all of this up because it seems clear that Brienne is a replacement for Cersei in Jaimes life and if you take that as a given then Cersei must be completely removed from his life and if you follow that train of thought, Brienne is a device to turn Jaime against Cersei. 

. , ; : ? !

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think Jaime finally sees Cersei for what she is. He's been turning a blind eye to her behavior and defending her for years, but he can't do that anymore. All of their children, along with hundreds of others. There's a smoking crater in the middle of the city. And Cersei doesn't give a shit. She's completely indefensible at this point to Jaime. 

I'm sure he'll confront her early in the season, but I wouldn't be surprised if she refuses to see him. And if she starts hooking up with Euron like it has been theorized, that'll probably be the final nail in the coffin, so to speak. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don;t really see what Euron can do. The Targeryen, Dorne, Highgarden, Greyjoy alliance is land based with men far superior to any at the Lannister or iron islands disposal while all the iron islands have are ships......great. Ships will only go so far. 

All Dany has to do is cross the narrow sea which is like from France to Britain, a few days ride. By the time Euron finds out Dany will not side with him, her army will have already landed on Westeros. Euron doesn't have any spies in Danys domain. They are just islanders.

 

I guess it could happen that Dany lays siege to kings landing with an army on one side and ships on the other, similar to the battle of the blackwater and Euron could be useful to Cersai then but I don't know why Dany woud do that when she has dragons at her disposal and has no experience in naval battles.

Edited by cylonhybrid

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We saw very clearly what happens to ships when they battle Dragons last season.  The story needs to deal with that problem if there is to be a great sea battle.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Cersei will leave KL before Dany conquers it. She has no reason to stay and wait for her demise. She is not that crazy.

However, Jaime might die during the battle (in Brianne's arms maybe). I don't see him killing Cersei before that. He doesn't love her any more as a woman, but she is still his sister. He helped Tyrion escape when sentenced to death so I don't see him killing Cersei either, no matter what she does/tries to do (burning the Red Keep, whole KL or sth similar).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think he will see of who she is and how she only cares for herself so im sure it wont take long for something to happen to her.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 8/16/2016 at 2:02 AM, braveniler58 said:

Yeah, I agree, the literal propechy is actually exactly why I thought it'd work. I've waffled on the whole Tyrion/Jaime = valonqar thing. It's most likely Jaime, but I really wouldn't be surprised if it was Tyrion. 

From what I gather... the Valonqar (in the books) could very well be Littlefinger.  The 'little brother' of your hand is your ... little finger. ;)

 

He gets the poison for Geoffrey/Jeoffrey.   He may even do the same for Myrcella.  Tommen... hmm... that one can't be laid at LF's feet.  Not in the show.  In the books, both Tommen and Myrcella are still alive, no?

 

The show may have someone else in mind.   Or nobody.  The show hasn't mentioned the Little Brother Prophecy, afaik.

Edited by Thror Baratheon

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.