Arya and Edmure

[Lockjaw of House Boltagon]

1 minute ago, SeventhReign said:

 

Yeah I didn't really like that either. I guess he was doing whatever he could to make sure his son was safe?

I guess handing over the Blackfish was one of the terms Jaime gave him but it was weird from a writing perspective. 

[Mourneblade]

4 hours ago, Lord Lannister said:

Sorry for the derail, conversations do that sometimes.

Edmure's had a rough road. Even if the notion of his baby being launched into Riverrun with a catapult was what seemed to break him I think he'd largely been numbed to horrible things happening to or around him. I was a little disturbed myself that Arya cheerfully served human remains even to someone as scumy as Walder Frey. It's hard to cheer for the protagonists when they start one-upping the villains with horrible ways to kill people as we've seen from the Stark girls this season. So Edmure would have every right to be horrified to learn that his own niece served Walder Frey's sons to him on a plate quite literally.

 

4 hours ago, SeventhReign said:

 

I know I said this in the OP, but the pies were just too much. First it makes no sense. There's no way she would have been able to chop them up and cook them. How did the staff not see this? When did she learn how to cook?

But most importantly, it's just too psycho for her. If Edmure finds that out, or Jon, or anyone of her family, I don't know what they'd do.

I most certainly didn't cheer for her, and I adore Arya. I was horrified. And Maisie Williams' expression when she held his head while he bled out ... Seven hells. I really don't like where they're taking her character. She's dark, yeah, but this is too crazy.

 

Arya is more than comfortable preparing dead bodies, cutting off their faces, etc. She has only been doing just that for the last 2 seasons. Maybe because they have not shown her dismembering them, that people do not think she does not know how. 

 

Arya is not psychotic, she is just not afraid of, or disgusted by, a dead body. She is still quite capable of feelings, and making moral choices, as we saw with the actress. She lives in a world were everyone is a killer, and she has learned to become an assassin in that world.

[Dracarys Stormborn]

10 minutes ago, Lyin' Ned said:

I guess handing over the Blackfish was one of the terms Jaime gave him but it was weird from a writing perspective. 

 

I think it was one of the terms. To get it back on topic, I do wonder how Arya would feel about him doing that to a family member. Family is the only thing that's keeping her going at this point, after all.

[Dracarys Stormborn]

4 minutes ago, Mourneblade said:

 

 

Arya is more than comfortable preparing dead bodies, cutting off their faces, etc. She has only been doing just that for the last 2 seasons. Maybe because they have not shown her dismembering them, that people do not think she does not know how. 

 

Arya is not psychotic, she is just not afraid of, or disgusted by, a dead body. She is still quite capable of feelings, and making moral choices, as we saw with the actress. She lives in a world were everyone is a killer, and she has learned to become an assassin in that world.

 

It's not really that she wouldn't know how to do it, it's the fact that she wouldn't really have time. Plus there was a whole kitchen staff she had to get around.

And I love Arya, but chopping two men up, baking them into a pie, and feeding them to their father is psychopathic behavior. There is no other way to describe it. A normal assassin would have just slit their throats and moved on. What she did was extreme. There is no excuse for this.

It's actually kind of funny because I was just arguing with a Sansa lover about Arya NOT being a psychopath before this episode came out, but unfortunately the show seems to be taking her down that route.

It's cool that they made a reference to the Rat Cook, but it's extremely out of character for Arya to do something like this.

[ssls6]

It was a pure nod to book readers and nothing else.  In the show there was no need for it yet they gave it to us.....she had all morning after the party to kill, take off a few pieces, then bake the pie.  The thing I found weirdest was "Arya can cook?"

[Dracarys Stormborn]

4 minutes ago, ssls6 said:

It was a pure nod to book readers and nothing else.  In the show there was no need for it yet they gave it to us.....she had all morning after the party to kill, take off a few pieces, then bake the pie.  The thing I found weirdest was "Arya can cook?"

In the time she baked the pies, no one found the bodies? No one was in the kitchen?

In my opinion, book references still need to make sense within the context of the show. They also gave Qyburn Varys's book dialogue from when he killed Kevan, though in the context of the show it really made no sense.

Having Arya do this was out of character. She's not this crazy.

But yeah, Arya probably shouldn't know how to cook lol. I suppose she picked up a few things when she was hanging out with Sandor. Still probably wouldn't know how to bake, though.

[Mourneblade]

3 minutes ago, Dracarys Stormborn said:

 

It's not really that she wouldn't know how to do it, it's the fact that she wouldn't really have time. Plus there was a whole kitchen staff she had to get around.

And I love Arya, but chopping two men up, baking them into a pie, and feeding them to their father is psychopathic behavior. There is no other way to describe it. A normal assassin would have just slit their throats and moved on. What she did was extreme. There is no excuse for this.

It's actually kind of funny because I was just arguing with a Sansa lover about Arya NOT being a psychopath before this episode came out, but unfortunately the show seems to be taking her down that route.

It's cool that they made a reference to the Rat Cook, but it's extremely out of character for Arya to do something like this.

 

Lol she is NOT a psychopath in the context of the story. These people cut her brothers head off and replaced it with his wolf's head. Morals and ethics are defined by the society of the day, which is clearly much different than the world we live in, well at least some parts of the world we live in.

How is this any different than Sansa feeding Ramsey to his dogs? These are both things normal people from the world we live in would be horrified by, but both are consider apropos in the setting. 

As to time, well it was after mid day, of the following day, so there was plenty of time. As to the Logistics, well we will have to see about that in next season lol. 

[Dracarys Stormborn]

5 minutes ago, Mourneblade said:

 

Lol she is NOT a psychopath in the context of the story. These people cut her brothers head off and replaced it with his wolf's head. Morals and ethics are defined by the society of the day, which is clearly much different than the world we live in, well at least some parts of the world we live in.

How is this any different than Sansa feeding Ramsey to his dogs? These are both things normal people from the world we live in would be horrified by, but both are consider apropos in the setting. 

As to time, well it was after mid day, of the following day, so there was plenty of time. As to the Logistics, well we will have to see about that in next season lol. 

 

And the people who cut off Robb's head are the bad guys. Assholes. We can't compare them to the protagonists.

Sansa feeding Ramsey to dogs while having a sadistic smile on her face was out of character for her as well. That's something Cersei or Ramsey himself would smile at. Sansa would never feel pleasure from anyone's pain, no matter what they did to her. She had nightmares about Joffery's death, and we all know about the things he did to her. She's just not that type of person.

Again, feeding human pies to someone is crazy behavior, even in the world of Westeros. The whole pie eating thing was a reference to the Rat Cook, who was cursed by the gods for making human pies. Any sane Westerosi would see that behavior as psychotic. They should not have made her do that.

There's really no way to excuse this. It was out of character for Arya and logistically made zero sense.

But ... I'm derailing my own thread lol.

[Mourneblade]

1 minute ago, Dracarys Stormborn said:

 

And the people who cut off Robb's head are the bad guys. Assholes. We can't compare them to the protagonists.

Sansa feeding Ramsey to dogs while having a sadistic smile on her face was out of character for her as well. That's something Cersei or Ramsey himself would smile at. Sansa would never feel pleasure from anyone's pain, no matter what they did to her. She had nightmares about Joffery's death, and we all know about the things he did to her. She's just not that type of person.

Again, feeding human pies to someone is crazy behavior, even in the world of Westeros. The whole pie eating thing was a reference to the Rat Cook, who was cursed by the gods for making human pies. Any sane Westerosi would see that behavior as psychotic. They should not have made her do that.

There's really no way to excuse this. It was out of character for Arya and logistically made zero sense.

Joffrey Terrorized Sansa, where as Ramsey Brutalized Sansa, much different. What you see being out of character, I see as something within all off us, and within everyone in Westeros.

 

This is not a happy fantasy between good and evil, never has been, and by the end of it, everyone will be bloodied, and no one will still be innocent, because the innocent die, and those who can make the hard choices are the ones who have a better chance to survive. That is, and always will be, human nature.

[Jedi Renee]

5 hours ago, Sir Matthis Light said:

I thought the same, but then I remember Edmure has a wife and son now. Its possible next season start out with Arya letting Edmure out she, but I don't think Edmure would leave his wife and son alone at the Twins, especially after Black Walder,Lothar, and Walder Freys murder.

Pretty sure in the books edmurs wife and kid are captive with the Lannisters at the rock . When Jamie was talkingto edmure in the show it seemed that way?

[The Black Adder of Dorne]

1 hour ago, Dracarys Stormborn said:

Again, feeding human pies to someone is crazy behavior, even in the world of Westeros. The whole pie eating thing was a reference to the Rat Cook, who was cursed by the gods for making human pies. Any sane Westerosi would see that behavior as psychotic.

 

But Manderly did that, and nothing in the remainder of his behaviour shows him to be psychotic.

[Prince Jon]

2 hours ago, ssls6 said:

It was a pure nod to book readers and nothing else.  In the show there was no need for it yet they gave it to us.....she had all morning after the party to kill, take off a few pieces, then bake the pie.  The thing I found weirdest was "Arya can cook?"

My thoughts exactly.  After D/D continue to frustrate us book readers, I appreciate it when they give us a wink.  

[Daemon I Blackfyre]

I'm more interested in why she wouldn't kill Jaime.
Does she plan to? He was never on her list, but he is still a Lannister and the brother/lover of Cersei who was on the list.
Did she hear the conversation between him and Walder and decided that he did not deserve to die just yet?
Also what is her next move? Will she try to kill Cersei or go North?
It's actually quite interesting to see that Show Arya is accomplishing something.

 

[ivosan]

Arya is a ninja.  She works solo.  Edmure has no particular talent.

She might help Uncle Edmure to get out, but then he will be on his own, going north. joining the brotherhood or finding people to retake Riverrun.

[Dracarys Stormborn]

4 hours ago, Mourneblade said:

Joffrey Terrorized Sansa, where as Ramsey Brutalized Sansa, much different. What you see being out of character, I see as something within all off us, and within everyone in Westeros.

 

This is not a happy fantasy between good and evil, never has been, and by the end of it, everyone will be bloodied, and no one will still be innocent, because the innocent die, and those who can make the hard choices are the ones who have a better chance to survive. That is, and always will be, human nature.

 

My opinion is my opinion. To me, Arya and Sansa were out of character for what they did. We'll have to agree to disagree.

2 hours ago, The Black Adder of Dorne said:

 

But Manderly did that, and nothing in the remainder of his behaviour shows him to be psychotic.

 

Isn't that just a fan theory? Or is there proof that he did that? My memory is short right now.

[Dracarys Stormborn]

1 hour ago, Daemon I Blackfyre said:

I'm more interested in why she wouldn't kill Jaime.
Does she plan to? He was never on her list, but he is still a Lannister and the brother/lover of Cersei who was on the list.
Did she hear the conversation between him and Walder and decided that he did not deserve to die just yet?
Also what is her next move? Will she try to kill Cersei or go North?
It's actually quite interesting to see that Show Arya is accomplishing something.

 

 

I don't think she got a chance to. Wasn't she the server looking at him at the feast? Maybe she planned on trying to get him alone before he left?

 

8 minutes ago, ivosan said:

Arya is a ninja.  She works solo.  Edmure has no particular talent.

She might help Uncle Edmure to get out, but then he will be on his own, going north. joining the brotherhood or finding people to retake Riverrun.

 

I don't know, she and the Hound worked well together.

I was thinking that perhaps she could help them take Riverrun, since I honestly can't think of anything else she could do, besides go North. Which she may have trouble during if the Riverlands are covered in Freys.

[Frimmel]

She poisoned all of the Freys the night before at the feast or whenever (it might be days after the Lannisters left.) Slow acting poison so they all died in their sleep. She's the only one to be around to make Frey pies for Walder for breakfast. That's why the hall was empty. 

[King Perkis]

4 hours ago, Dracarys Stormborn said:

In my opinion, book references still need to make sense within the context of the show. They also gave Qyburn Varys's book dialogue from when he killed Kevan, though in the context of the show it really made no sense.

 

Talk about so underwhelming. That speech in the book, with the environment description and him dying, gave me goosebumps. I literally laughed during this scene when Pycelle punched that kid.

[Vuron]

3 minutes ago, Frimmel said:

She poisoned all of the Freys the night before at the feast or whenever (it might be days after the Lannisters left.) Slow acting poison so they all died in their sleep. She's the only one to be around to make Frey pies for Walder for breakfast. That's why the hall was empty. 

This would be a quick and easy solution in the show.  Arya poisons everyone, sets Edmure free, and burns down the Twins before leaving.  One scene takes care of everything.

[Masha]

9 hours ago, Dracarys Stormborn said:

 

I know I said this in the OP, but the pies were just too much. First it makes no sense. There's no way she would have been able to chop them up and cook them. How did the staff not see this? When did she learn how to cook?

But most importantly, it's just too psycho for her. If Edmure finds that out, or Jon, or anyone of her family, I don't know what they'd do.

I most certainly didn't cheer for her, and I adore Arya. I was horrified. And Maisie Williams' expression when she held his head while he bled out ... Seven hells. I really don't like where they're taking her character. She's dark, yeah, but this is too crazy.

 

4 hours ago, Dracarys Stormborn said:

In the time she baked the pies, no one found the bodies? No one was in the kitchen?

In my opinion, book references still need to make sense within the context of the show. They also gave Qyburn Varys's book dialogue from when he killed Kevan, though in the context of the show it really made no sense.

Having Arya do this was out of character. She's not this crazy.

But yeah, Arya probably shouldn't know how to cook lol. I suppose she picked up a few things when she was hanging out with Sandor. Still probably wouldn't know how to bake, though.

Its not out of character, she is seen headed there both in the books, where she is killing people both for FM and for no big reasons (in the books she kills a NW deserter in Braavos, a jerk but otherwise normal guy.  The only reason is being NW deserter) and in the show (her last season finale kill wasn't exactly clean)

2 hours ago, Daemon I Blackfyre said:

I'm more interested in why she wouldn't kill Jaime.
Does she plan to? He was never on her list, but he is still a Lannister and the brother/lover of Cersei who was on the list.
Did she hear the conversation between him and Walder and decided that he did not deserve to die just yet?
Also what is her next move? Will she try to kill Cersei or go North?
It's actually quite interesting to see that Show Arya is accomplishing something.

 

Jaime was never on her list, he wasn't there when her father was murdered as well as her mother, since she doesn't know about his role in Bran's "accident" she doesn't put him on her list.  She might have considered it, if he caught the snare that she gave him at the party, but he didn't and left soon after, while Freys were a priority on her list. She was thinking about it for sure, if you check out the scene again, when Jaime thought she was flirting, she was actually assessing him.

She might just hang around Riverlands - a la Lady Stoneheart style or perhaps join with BwB. 

She might have two goals - First she is taking care of her list, then it would mean her going to KL after Cersei, or she is going North and Frey's were just a nice pit stop on the way.