GeorgeIAF

Dawn

142 posts in this topic

The sword that Ned lays alongside the bed is Dawn, that's why they focused on it, it is also the sword that Arthur Dayne has before and during the battle, the other one was an usual sword he wielded.

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Bump, i forgot to say that i think Jon will wield it in the end !

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3 hours ago, GeorgeIAF said:

Bump, i forgot to say that i think Jon will wield it in the end !

Are you suggesting that Jon is a Dayne and not a Targaryen?

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33 minutes ago, YOVMO said:

Are you suggesting that Jon is a Dayne and not a Targaryen?

I posted in another thread. I think Jon is a Targaryen. But here's how it may work out. Dayne house is even older than Targ house. Dayne's also have Valyrian blood. In fact through marriage, Jon even had Dayne blood as a Targ married a Dayne and Rhaegar would eventually come from this line.  I believe Arthur and Rhaegar being best friends probably discussed their family prophecies. Targ-Prince that was Promised. Dayne-Sword of the Morning.  And realized the prophecies are the same. In fact the Targ prophecy is probably an off shoot of the Dayne's. So they realized that TPTWP would one day wield the GreatSword Dawn and become TSOTM and battle against the Night King and end the Long Night. So Jon will fulfill both prophecies and will wield Dawn in the end. 

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3 minutes ago, Smoke317 said:

I posted in another thread. I think Jon is a Targaryen. But here's how it may work out. Dayne house is even older than Targ house. Dayne's also have Valyrian blood. In fact through marriage, Jon even had Dayne blood as a Targ married a Dayne and Rhaegar would eventually come from this line.  I believe Arthur and Rhaegar being best friends probably discussed their family prophecies. Targ-Prince that was Promised. Dayne-Sword of the Morning.  And realized the prophecies are the same. In fact the Targ prophecy is probably an off shoot of the Dayne's. So they realized that TPTWP would one day wield the GreatSword Dawn and become TSOTM and battle against the Night King and end the Long Night. So Jon will fulfill both prophecies and will wield Dawn in the end. 

I will give you that it is interesting but I see no compelling proof for this anywhere. 

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54 minutes ago, YOVMO said:

Are you suggesting that Jon is a Dayne and not a Targaryen?

No, i am suggesting that obsidian might be ineffective against the NK and maybe a certain sword made from a falling star might be the answer.

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If Jon was a Dane Lyanna would not be concern about Roberts wrath.  Even though you cannot make out what Jon's name is conclusively you can make out that Lyanna is concerned about Robert getting his hands on him.

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42 minutes ago, Smoke317 said:

I posted in another thread. I think Jon is a Targaryen. But here's how it may work out. Dayne house is even older than Targ house. Dayne's also have Valyrian blood. In fact through marriage, Jon even had Dayne blood as a Targ married a Dayne and Rhaegar would eventually come from this line.  I believe Arthur and Rhaegar being best friends probably discussed their family prophecies. Targ-Prince that was Promised. Dayne-Sword of the Morning.  And realized the prophecies are the same. In fact the Targ prophecy is probably an off shoot of the Dayne's. So they realized that TPTWP would one day wield the GreatSword Dawn and become TSOTM and battle against the Night King and end the Long Night. So Jon will fulfill both prophecies and will wield Dawn in the end. 

Interesting theory but still doesn't explain why need had to protect Jon from Robert.

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27 minutes ago, GeorgeIAF said:

No, i am suggesting that obsidian might be ineffective against the NK and maybe a certain sword made from a falling star might be the answer.

In the show there is no meat to Rhaegar and Arthur being good friends. Nowhere does it seem that the Dayne house is older than the Targaryen house that I remember, but that is neither here nor there. And in the books the Night's King isn't personified as it is in this garbage tv show. Further, there has never been a sword of the morning that wasn't a Dayne as it is specifically a Dayne custom to call whichever Dayne was proved worthy to carry dawn the sword of the morning.

 

There is an awful lot of shoe horning, mostly unsuccessful, with almost zero pay off to get Jon to wield Dawn. It doesn't make sense in the books nor does it in the show.

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4 hours ago, YOVMO said:

In the show there is no meat to Rhaegar and Arthur being good friends. Nowhere does it seem that the Dayne house is older than the Targaryen house that I remember, but that is neither here nor there. And in the books the Night's King isn't personified as it is in this garbage tv show. Further, there has never been a sword of the morning that wasn't a Dayne as it is specifically a Dayne custom to call whichever Dayne was proved worthy to carry dawn the sword of the morning.

 

There is an awful lot of shoe horning, mostly unsuccessful, with almost zero pay off to get Jon to wield Dawn. It doesn't make sense in the books nor does it in the show.

No shoehorning. Read up on the theories on this forum. They are very deep. Many believe that the Dayne's are just caretakers of the sword. They are holding it until the next Sword of the Morning arises. Also as I stated, if Jon is Rhaegar's son, he has Dayne blood, as a few generations back a Dayne married a Targ. Just check the Wiki. It's all there. And the show may or may not go into details about Rhaegar & Arthur's friendship. They don't have to. They can gloss over many things like usual. The books and GRRM have made it clear Arthur & Rhaegar were best friends. They've made it clear Dayne's have Targ features. They've also made it clear that Dayne house dates back to the First Men.  Here's another guess of mine that we'll have to wait 10 months to figure out: the 2 kids that casting leaks for next season that are said to interact with the main cast will be the Daynes. Erdric & Allyria Dayne.  Just an assumption. 

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5 hours ago, Smoke317 said:

Dayne's also have Valyrian blood

According to GRRM they are not Valyrians. The Targs have Dayne blood and not the other way around.

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1 minute ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

According to GRRM they are not Valyrians. The Targs have Dayne blood and not the other way around.

Thanks for the correction. So Jon in essence and all Targs are Daynes in a sense...

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4 minutes ago, Smoke317 said:

Thanks for the correction. So Jon in essence and all Targs are Daynes in a sense...

Not all the Targs. The Targs that are descendants of Maekar's children. In any case I don't believe that Jon will take Dawn because of his Dayne ancestor.

Edited by Jon's Queen Consort

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I was curious to the focusing of the the sword when he placed it down....a shred of me still doesn't want to believe R+L=J theory as it is too simple and cliche, but I am probably for sure wrong. I just think it was interesting to have a focus on such a minor detail such as the sword of the morning/Dawn - Unless it was foreshadow that the long night wont be as long and that dawn/good/light/anti-other will win in the end. 

Maybe thats why they dumbed down the design of Dawn because the sword itself has not significance however, the meaning of the symbol, the rising sun on the pommel does....

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The camera focused only briefly on the sword for one reason-- because Jon, Bran or someone will find Dawn in the Stark crypts. 

This talk of the Dayne prophecy is amusing. It doesn't bear out in the show, and in the books it simply doesn't exist. Ser Arthur Dayne had the handle of the Sword of the Morning because of his greatsword named Dawn. Now, while the sword itself is unusual since it was made from the metal of a fallen star, there are zero prophecies that accompany it or the Daynes. Not in the show, or the books. 

Any 'deep theorizing' in this forum to substantiate it is just that. Wishes and fishes.

Edited by JEORDHl

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21 minutes ago, Smoke317 said:

No shoehorning. Read up on the theories on this forum. They are very deep. Many believe that the Dayne's are just caretakers of the sword. They are holding it until the next Sword of the Morning arises. Also as I stated, if Jon is Rhaegar's son, he has Dayne blood, as a few generations back a Dayne married a Targ. Just check the Wiki. It's all there. And the show may or may not go into details about Rhaegar & Arthur's friendship. They don't have to. They can gloss over many things like usual. The books and GRRM have made it clear Arthur & Rhaegar were best friends. They've made it clear Dayne's have Targ features. They've also made it clear that Dayne house dates back to the First Men.  Here's another guess of mine that we'll have to wait 10 months to figure out: the 2 kids that casting leaks for next season that are said to interact with the main cast will be the Daynes. Erdric & Allyria Dayne.  Just an assumption. 

I am all about the tinfoil stuff, really. I love it. However, I just don't buy this. I think it is far more likely that Edric will be the next sword of the morning. If you go back in any of the family histories of the high lords of westeros you will find some connection through marriage.

 

ALso, yes, GRRM does make Arthur and Rhaegar as close friends very clear but not so in the show and, as people who are fans of the abysmal writing in the show constantly remind us, it is two separate universes.

The gymnastics it takes to make Jon Sword of the Morning are pretty extreme and the pay off is not really that great. I won't venture a guess about the show, but I think in the books it is more likely that Arthur Dayne is still alive and hiding out in Blackhaven with his sister (Lord Beric's fiancé) and has been since howland reed brokered a peace based on jon at the tower of joy.

I think the TOJ reveal will come when Edric takes Beric back to Blackhaven to be buried and meets, is trained by, knighted by and named sword of the morning by Arthur Dayne who, before dying, tells him the truth of the tower of joy.

Further, I believe that longclaw is actually blackfyre and was stashed at the wall by Bloodraven when he was LC of the Nights watch.

 

That sets up a friendship of Jon and Edric the way there was a friendship between Rhaegar Targ and Arthur.

 

I honestly think that it is a much more likely scenario and one that actually has a much higher pay off.

 

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5 hours ago, Smoke317 said:

I posted in another thread. I think Jon is a Targaryen. But here's how it may work out. Dayne house is even older than Targ house. Dayne's also have Valyrian blood. In fact through marriage, Jon even had Dayne blood as a Targ married a Dayne and Rhaegar would eventually come from this line.  I believe Arthur and Rhaegar being best friends probably discussed their family prophecies. Targ-Prince that was Promised. Dayne-Sword of the Morning.  And realized the prophecies are the same. In fact the Targ prophecy is probably an off shoot of the Dayne's. So they realized that TPTWP would one day wield the GreatSword Dawn and become TSOTM and battle against the Night King and end the Long Night. So Jon will fulfill both prophecies and will wield Dawn in the end. 

good theory! i like this!

Edited by goomba

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I think Dawn is actually Ice. The two swords are the exact same make. Theres no way that Ned's brother or father took it to Kings Landing to fight the Mad King and Ice was returned to Winterfell. It is said that Ned took Dawn back to Dorne but I actually think that they might have told Ned to keep it. If true then that means Breanne and Tommen (Jamie takes it back?) have the two most badass swords in the 7 kingdoms.

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