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J. Stargaryen Council Member

J. Stargaryen

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We also might now know Jon Snow’s real first name. We also went and asked the finale’s director, Miguel Sapochnik, about the identity of Snow’s dad, he said he couldn’t outright tell us. But then he hinted, “I reckon if you turn the sound right up and listen carefully it might just give you the answer you need…”

- Link

If the bold is true, this makes it even more likely that Rhaegar is the father, since names like Aemon/Aegon/Jaehaerys are all recognizably Targaryen. With Daynes, for example, there is no such thing, as far as I know.

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Being Daenerys Targaryen Hedge Knight

Being Daenerys Targaryen

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1 hour ago, farm_ecology said:

The poster is saying that R+L = D is dead ( Valar Morghulis R+L=D).

There has been a theory around for some time that Danny was born in the Tower of Joy and is in fact, half stark. This episode seems to dismiss this theory for various reasons (the child being a boy being one of them).

OKAY! My MISTAKE...

BUT I don't understand... If it's not Jon nor Dany... Who is it. 

Oh Sorry I see! You say it's confirmed that it's Jon but not at 100%. It means that everthing can happen in Game Of Thrones and that as long as it is not at 100% confirmed, there are other possibilities... Am I right?

But sorry baby about my misunderstanding. 

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Attitude Council Member

Attitude

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28 minutes ago, Being Daenerys Targaryen said:

OKAY! My MISTAKE...

BUT I don't understand... If it's not Jon nor Dany... Who is it. 

Oh Sorry I see! You say it's confirmed that it's Jon but not at 100%. It means that everthing can happen in Game Of Thrones and that as long as it is not at 100% confirmed, there are other possibilities... Am I right?

But sorry baby about my misunderstanding. 

It is 100% confirmed, see:

http://www.makinggameofthrones.com/production-diary/got-connections-ned-promise-tower-of-joy-infographic

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TheGreatStallion Freerider

TheGreatStallion

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Posted
7 hours ago, Asvpxkvng said:

After much much consideration and starting out like a lot of people who wanted it to be more complicated than R+L=J simply because of the cut sound bite I've arrived at the default conclusion, R+L=J. I've reviewed the Dayne theory and it seems to long protracted and reaching but most importantly too complicated to occur on show. There was an Aerys theory but I disqualified it because that was a little too crazy and the same as the Dayne theory I found that if they made this switch drop on us between Rhaegar and Aerys it would just be unnecessarily convoluted. If there are any other theories out there with any steam please tell me! I'd love to hear and analyze!

 

6 hours ago, Attitude said:

What lies about the resurrection? They said he was dead, and he was dead. They didn't lie about that. 

I am not aware of any official statement about whether or not we could expect a resurrection, so if you have any official statement about that, please fill me in.

However, this info clearly stated that Rhaegar is Jons parent. So IMO there is no discussion required about R+L=J.

The only topics that are interesting (in my opinion) to discuss are:

- What will be the impact of R+L=J 
- R+L=J, but is Jon legit (can he claim the IT based on his name, and how does he want to prove this)
- Why did the showwriters leave out his name, but later on reveal the fact that he is a targaryen anyway?

The showwriters left out the name in order to not confuse the audience by using a new name, so people like you will not go on and on speculating about the fact it is not about Jon Snow but another character and that she is not his mother.

That is why they left out the name, and they faded from Baby Jon to Current Jon.

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Sly Wren Council Member

Sly Wren

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22 hours ago, TheGreatStallion said:

Except that both interviews occured before update of the site..

Wait--so, if I'm reading you right, the argument goes like this:

1. The show deliberately muffled what Lyanna says to Ned and limits her words (though it made the transition from baby to Jon clear).

2. Then the show sent out the director on an interview, published after the show aired, to say flat out that he could not outright tell who Jon's father is. http://www.ew.com/article/2016/06/26/game-thrones-jon-snow-mother

3. The show also has the Bran actor saying flat out that neither he nor Bran knows who the father is. http://watchersonthewall.com/isaac-hempstead-wright-robert-aramayo-discuss-tower-joy-game-thrones-endgame/

4. But then the show, after doing all that, says, "Screw it! To hell with all that work! Let's just chuck the reveal up on a blog graphic!"

That's the argument you are asserting, right? From the same show that not only insisted that Jon was dead, but had Kit Harrington as recently as this March insisting that he, the actor, was done with the show? https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2016/mar/27/kit-harington-doctor-faustus-game-thrones-duke-yorks-theatre-london

The show trolled us last season. Hard. Not all that convincingly, but hard. D&D even trolled us with that stupid shirt. http://blogs.wsj.com/speakeasy/2015/01/30/game-of-thrones-showrunner-wears-shirt-referencing-rlj/

They like trolling us. RLJ is still a very, very, even extremely likely solution to "Who's you're daddy, Jon-boy?" But they have not confirmed it.

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Sly Wren Council Member

Sly Wren

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15 hours ago, ShadowKitteh said:

Link please. I missed that.

https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2016/mar/27/kit-harington-doctor-faustus-game-thrones-duke-yorks-theatre-london

15 hours ago, ShadowKitteh said:

Jon was dead. What's your point?

You cannot resurrect a living person, they're NOT DEAD.

They also said he wasn't coming back. And that Kit wasn't coming back. And Kit told all of his cast-mates and the crew that he wasn't coming back.

 

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Sly Wren Council Member

Sly Wren

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11 hours ago, teej6 said:

And you can argue all you want about Arthur Dayne being important on the show because Bran says that he was told that his father defeated Arthur Dayne when actually he didn't or about Ned placing Dawn at the foot of the bed, but really none of these things make the case for Arthur being the dad.

Agreed. But they make the case for Arthur and his death being really important. Like the reveal in Bran's other flashback about Hodor's being able to talk ending up being pretty important. And that his sword is important.

So far, the show hasn't told us why on earth it matters that Arthur's manner of death was lied about and is so personally devastating to Bran. Or why the sword matters in all of this. But at least on option is: Ned killed Lyanna's beloved. And Jon's father. And that sword is going to pass to Jon.

Other options: Jon will be Sword of the Morning by other means, not yet developed in either book or show.

They will bring in the Daynes to take out the Sand Snake Dornish Pixies (Please, please, PLEASE don't let that be it!!!). 

And other things, I'm sure. 

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Sly Wren Council Member

Sly Wren

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22 hours ago, JEORDHl said:

I feel the same way, but the how of it is the question. And it's problematic. It's not like we could reasonably expect an encapsulating flashback or vision or whatever, and we've got a few narrative strings threading the tourney:

i. Rhaeger's alleged intent to remove Aerys

ii. The Mystery Knight

iii. Rhaegar being sent to find the same

iv. Lyanna is crowned by the champion instead of Elia

Amen--especially on the bolded. I'm eager to get more info on not only Rhaegar's role but Tywin's.

To this list, I'd add in Ashara and her dance partners--Howland takes time to notice them and we know they are all key political players. And Martin has told us that we will learn a LOT more about the Daynes and Arthur's role and Ashara in later books. What role did Ashara, who was not "nailed to the floor," play?

 

22 hours ago, JEORDHl said:

Harrenhall is where everything went seriously sideways. I agree with you that Martin has to give us something, but if it's more than a snippet here or there that we'd have to put together ourselves, I'd be quite surprised.   

Hopefully they are the key snippets. When I read the Harrenhal sections, I often feel like we get misdirected. Like Martin shows us with Lysa at the Moon Door that he misdirected us for three books re: the murder of Jon Arryn and some of the starting points of Robb's Rebellion.

So, the question for Harrenhal and other elements would be, misdirected away from what? What was the key point there? 

If he clears that up (hopefully less awkwardly than he cleared up the murder of Jon Arryn with Lysa at the Moon Door), that would get it done.

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teej6 Council Member

teej6

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31 minutes ago, Sly Wren said:

Agreed. But they make the case for Arthur and his death being really important. Like the reveal in Bran's other flashback about Hodor's being able to talk ending up being pretty important. And that his sword is important.

So far, the show hasn't told us why on earth it matters that Arthur's manner of death was lied about and is so personally devastating to Bran. Or why the sword matters in all of this. But at least on option is: Ned killed Lyanna's beloved. And Jon's father. And that sword is going to pass to Jon.

Other options: Jon will be Sword of the Morning by other means, not yet developed in either book or show.

They will bring in the Daynes to take out the Sand Snake Dornish Pixies (Please, please, PLEASE don't let that be it!!!). 

And other things, I'm sure. 

Actually I wish they would. As much as I dislike Darkstar in the books, I will cheer if he is introduced next season to take out the Bad Pussy brigade and Falluria. But I doubt that will happen. 

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TheGreatStallion Freerider

TheGreatStallion

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30 minutes ago, Sly Wren said:

Wait--so, if I'm reading you right, the argument goes like this:

1. The show deliberately muffled what Lyanna says to Ned and limits her words (though it made the transition from baby to Jon clear).

2. Then the show sent out the director on an interview, published after the show aired, to say flat out that he could not outright tell who Jon's father is. http://www.ew.com/article/2016/06/26/game-thrones-jon-snow-mother

3. The show also has the Bran actor saying flat out that neither he nor Bran knows who the father is. http://watchersonthewall.com/isaac-hempstead-wright-robert-aramayo-discuss-tower-joy-game-thrones-endgame/

4. But then the show, after doing all that, says, "Screw it! To hell with all that work! Let's just chuck the reveal up on a blog graphic!"

That's the argument you are asserting, right? From the same show that not only insisted that Jon was dead, but had Kit Harrington as recently as this March insisting that he, the actor, was done with the show? https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2016/mar/27/kit-harington-doctor-faustus-game-thrones-duke-yorks-theatre-london

The show trolled us last season. Hard. Not all that convincingly, but hard. D&D even trolled us with that stupid shirt. http://blogs.wsj.com/speakeasy/2015/01/30/game-of-thrones-showrunner-wears-shirt-referencing-rlj/

They like trolling us. RLJ is still a very, very, even extremely likely solution to "Who's you're daddy, Jon-boy?" But they have not confirmed it.

 

Look man I m just saying go to the site look at the family tree it is just obvious, They confirmed Lyanna and Rhaegar are Jon's mother and father, PERIOD.

Besides if you just want to make me look like a fool by discrediting the facts it is just silly: I am saying that they did left the name out of it in order to NOT confuse the audience or people like you (because obviously that happened anyway) by dropping a new name, they want to do it slowly that is it.

Secondly this is a show and when it is branded HBO on the family tree you cannot deny it.

And yes i am going to repeat myself the interviews were done before even there was an update in the website, and the thing is they probably released the informations because people like you were claiming it is not confirmed.

really it is just weird the way you are looking for details that are not there.

Anyway really I heard your argument i think it is not valid and that everything about R+L=J is confirmed it is my opinion so please respect it.

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Sly Wren Council Member

Sly Wren

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15 minutes ago, TheGreatStallion said:

really it is just weird the way you are looking for details that are not there.

Anyway really I heard your argument i think it is not valid and that everything about R+L=J is confirmed it is my opinion so please respect it.

My apologies--I came off as far more strident than I intended. And I am very sorry.

Fully agree that RLJ is possible. Can't see it as confirmed. But I can fully respect your opinion that it is. And I apologize for overdoing it. :cheers:

15 minutes ago, teej6 said:

Actually I wish they would. As much as I dislike Darkstar in the books, I will cheer if he is introduced next season to take out the Bad Pussy brigade and Falluria. But I doubt that will happen. 

HA! Okay--yes, I see your point--even I might like to see that. 

"I am Darkstar! I am of the Night! And as much of an idiot as I may be, even I think you Pixies are pointless!"

*Swish. Thunk.*

The End of the Angry Pixies.

 

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MtnLion Council Member

MtnLion

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15 hours ago, JEORDHl said:

I don't remember that, nor is it ringing any bells (not saying it didn't happen though) Do you recall which book/chapter that was in? It must have something around it.

Kinighted by Rhaegar Targaryen (A Game of Thrones, Chapter 29, Sansa II) Before Harrenhal.

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Juliet Burke Freerider

Juliet Burke

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On 30 июня 2016 г. at 6:28 PM, TheGreatStallion said:

I really think there is no comparison possible because you are just fetching too far. Rhaegar is the father period.

In the case of Jon snow being dead or not, they did not want to spoil what happens next because he was actually dead, but in this precise case, if they wanted some mystery around Jon's father they would have just shut up about it, and say we do not know maybe or maybe not raheagar is the father, but THEY ACTUALLY CONFIRMED WHO IS THE FATHER IN AN INTERVIEW AND IN the INFOGRAPHIC SO COME ON GUYS LET IT GO

What interview? Did David Benioff and Dan Weiss confirmed that Rhaegar is father in interview? Can you give me a link please?

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brightflame princess Sellsword

brightflame princess

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Posted
2 hours ago, Sly Wren said:

Wait--so, if I'm reading you right, the argument goes like this:

1. The show deliberately muffled what Lyanna says to Ned and limits her words (though it made the transition from baby to Jon clear).

2. Then the show sent out the director on an interview, published after the show aired, to say flat out that he could not outright tell who Jon's father is. http://www.ew.com/article/2016/06/26/game-thrones-jon-snow-mother

3. The show also has the Bran actor saying flat out that neither he nor Bran knows who the father is. http://watchersonthewall.com/isaac-hempstead-wright-robert-aramayo-discuss-tower-joy-game-thrones-endgame/

4. But then the show, after doing all that, says, "Screw it! To hell with all that work! Let's just chuck the reveal up on a blog graphic!"

That's the argument you are asserting, right? From the same show that not only insisted that Jon was dead, but had Kit Harrington as recently as this March insisting that he, the actor, was done with the show? https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2016/mar/27/kit-harington-doctor-faustus-game-thrones-duke-yorks-theatre-london

The show trolled us last season. Hard. Not all that convincingly, but hard. D&D even trolled us with that stupid shirt. http://blogs.wsj.com/speakeasy/2015/01/30/game-of-thrones-showrunner-wears-shirt-referencing-rlj/

They like trolling us. RLJ is still a very, very, even extremely likely solution to "Who's you're daddy, Jon-boy?" But they have not confirmed it.

While I don't totally agree with you, I do like how you pointed out the trolling going on. I think they did something similar with Jon's real name. lyanna whispered the wrong name, I'm sure of it. Just to throw us off :)

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