Not Confirmed

[sweetsunray]

On 27-6-2016 at 7:59 AM, Banner Without Brothers said:

First big one the hair. We know how important hair is in the story. That baby is so blonde I think it would be more accurate to call it silver. If they wanted to 100% confirm Jon they would have had a baby with black hair. Of course babies hair can darken as they grow older but by the time that Ned brought him back to Winterfell? It's definitely a deliberate hole that will have to be filled in with either secret constant hair dye or magic, a glamour perhaps. https://youtu.be/dkvkT5D3fF4?t=280

Actually baby hair, especially that of newborn babies, means zilch. I had blond downy hair as a baby until my first actual hair started to grow and that was bronw-mahogany and still is my hair colour (except for the silver grey). And I remember how in elementary almost ALL of the blond haired children of my class had baby pictures of themselves with dark crop of hair (it's newborn hair that developed in the womb, and remained even after birth for the first few weeks).

[ToTheWolves]

51 minutes ago, Darksky said:

It's funny to see all those updated House Targaryen family trees on various websites. It's finally happened.

I was thinking this as well.

[bimbin]

On 6/27/2016 at 7:40 AM, StarkofWinterfell said:

Go back and watch the scene again. Ned lays Dawn down on the edge of the bed with the sunburst very visible to see. It's in the foreground of one of the first shots. 

I think that A+L=J was confirmed.

The baby is Jon Snow. His real name is Jaehaerys Targeyen, third of his name. 

[Lurid Jester]

On July 1, 2016 at 6:05 PM, ice_iridium said:

The Sword of the Morning, bearer of Dawn, will end the Long Night. This phrase definitely makes sense.

"The Sword of the Morning is always a member of House Dayne, someone who is deemed worthy of wielding Dawn as decided within the House"
GRRM, US Signing Tour (Albuquerque, 2005)

It's now apparent, at least from the show, that everyone has been overestimating the role Dawn will play in the series. 

We've always assume that since this Chekovs gun was a sword, that it would be wielded by the "hero".  It's what I thought.  

Instead it is the "bloody star" under which Jon was born.  Prophecy fulfilled, in a very interesting and unexpected way (at least to me).  

Now im more and more convinced that Lightbringer isn't a specific magical(ish) sword, but instead a symbol for the entire Night's Watch. 

"I am the sword in the darkness [...] the light that brings the dawn."

[ShadowKitteh]

On July 4, 2016 at 4:08 AM, Being Daenerys Targaryen said:

That brings the question bellow

"Would Robert kill Lyanna's baby because he was Rhaegar's son or would he kill him just because she had a baby with someone else?" 

Because people argue that as Lyanna said that Robert would kill the baby if he finds out, it means that the baby is a Targaryen. Maybe just because Roberts didn't want Lyanna to be with anyone other than himself... No man would like that anyways. Like Caitlyn wanted to see Jon dead not because she has no heart but because everytime she sees Jon, she remembers that Ned betrayed her.

But I'm convinced that Jon is Rhaegar's son. Otherwise, why would the Prince Rhaegar put Ser Arthur Dayne, the best kings guard at that time, at the tower of joy? 

And Arthur Dayne should've just cooperate with Ned because Ned wouldn't hurt his nephew... anyways, that's another topic...not important really... 

But it's VERY important - in fact, it's KEY. 

Kings Guard would never fight to the death over a bastard, even Rhaegar's. 

The fact they DO fight, means Jon is the rightful King. Bran will either point that detail out to Meera, or he'll see the wedding in a flashback.

[ShadowKitteh]

3 hours ago, Lurid Jester said:

It's now apparent, at least from the show, that everyone has been overestimating the role Dawn will play in the series. 

We've always assume that since this Chekovs gun was a sword, that it would be wielded by the "hero".  It's what I thought.  

Instead it is the "bloody star" under which Jon was born.  Prophecy fulfilled, in a very interesting and unexpected way (at least to me).  

Now im more and more convinced that Lightbringer isn't a specific magical(ish) sword, but instead a symbol for the entire Night's Watch. 

"I am the sword in the darkness [...] the light that brings the dawn."

Jon is Azor Ahai reborn, and Dany along with her dragons are Lightbringer. 

[Lurid Jester]

3 hours ago, ShadowKitteh said:

Jon is Azor Ahai reborn, and Dany along with her dragons are Lightbringer. 

It's funny that in the series, the people who aren't actively trying to fulfill prophecy are the ones fulfilling prophecy.  

Mir ends poorly for those who try to force it. 

Stannis

Melisandre

Rhaegar

everyone at Summerhall

[The Fattest Leech]

49 minutes ago, Lurid Jester said:

It's funny that in the series, the people who aren't actively trying to fulfill prophecy are the ones fulfilling prophecy.  

Mir ends poorly for those who try to force it. 

Stannis

Melisandre

Rhaegar

everyone at Summerhall

Yup! That is part of the subtext to the religion and prophecy of the series. Thank you for bringing it up. I don't know if you ever read the D&E novellas? They are quite good and The Mystery Knight in-particular deals a lot with this.

[Lurid Jester]

22 minutes ago, The Fattest Leech said:

Yup! That is part of the subtext to the religion and prophecy of the series. Thank you for bringing it up. I don't know if you ever read the D&E novellas? They are quite good and The Mystery Knight in-particular deals a lot with this.

Yeah, there are only three so far right?  I've read those, but I should probably retread them a little more carefully.  I'm starting to hear that Martin put clues to asoiaf in there as well.  Not sure how true that is though. 

[The Fattest Leech]

1 minute ago, Lurid Jester said:

Yeah, there are only three so far right?  I've read those, but I should probably retread them a little more carefully.  I'm starting to hear that Martin put clues to asoiaf in there as well.  Not sure how true that is though. 

Oh yes. Read them again because there are main 5 parallels... and some current character history in there.

Three are out now and She-wolves of Winterfell is in the works now.

[Being Daenerys Targaryen]

9 hours ago, ShadowKitteh said:

But it's VERY important - in fact, it's KEY. 

Kings Guard would never fight to the death over a bastard, even Rhaegar's. 

The fact they DO fight, means Jon is the rightful King. Bran will either point that detail out to Meera, or he'll see the wedding in a flashback.

ooh okay! never thought that way... Yes Dayne and cie fought bravely, fought together to defend the little Jon... if he was a bastard, then they wouldn't have fought, right? 

Another thing... Why was Rhaegar so regarding about Jon's life? I mean he had other children... Why didn't he care about their lives and put the best king's guard at the TOJ and not with his wife (Elia) and children? Looks like Jon was (in fact 'IS') an IMPORTANT person! way more important that anyone else... 

[Asvpxkvng]

Whether he's important or not remains to be seen. It's very likely he's the rightful heir. But let's face it we are still talking about Jon! We all know he'll never get a perfect ending with Daenerys at his side. His true lineage will probably never come into PRACTICAL play because if he managed to miraculously push back the WW army which he is unlikely to deal with quickly enough to leave enough time for episodes to talk about succession of even escape alive, we know GRRM would never let a Jon/Dany rule over Westoros be the endgame. He'd never let us off that easy.

[Being Daenerys Targaryen]

32 minutes ago, Asvpxkvng said:

Whether he's important or not remains to be seen. It's very likely he's the rightful heir. But let's face it we are still talking about Jon! We all know he'll never get a perfect ending with Daenerys at his side. His true lineage will probably never come into PRACTICAL play because if he managed to miraculously push back the WW army which he is unlikely to deal with quickly enough to leave enough time for episodes to talk about succession of even escape alive, we know GRRM would never let a Jon/Dany rule over Westoros be the endgame. He'd never let us off that easy.

You are right... That's what I thought... I even thought that maybe Tyrion will be the king in the end... Daenerys dead... Jon dead... Or maybe Gendry? please!! Or nobody!! no more westoros... Because Valar Morghulis... All men must die... But if this is the end, then I won't watch it... I don't wanna loose my mind... 

And maybe they will never let people in the kingdom know about Jon snow's lineage... Nobody but us... Very fustrating, isn't it? Only Bran, Meera's father, and us... What's the point??!!

 

[Vastet]

udging by some of your posts of late I have wondered what planet you hail from. Hair products aren't really extant in Westeros that I'm aware of, but exposed to an open flame hair burns/singes much easier [than skin]

Completely false. Skin will burn at temperatures dozens of degrees cooler than required to singe hair.

George refuted that quote by publishing ADWD. Skin 'burns' aren't necessarily caused by heat.

Dany is fireproof, period.

[Cron]

My friends and fellow ASOIAF enthusiasts, I think the only way it could be more clear that that baby is Jon Snow would be if he had been born with the words "I AM JON SNOW" tattooed on his forehead.

Even before Episode 610, I would have said there's a 99.999% probability that Jon Snow's parents are Rhaegar and Lyanna and he was born in the Tower of Joy, but as far as I'm concerned Episode 610 has confirmed it 100%.

Occam's Razor basically says that the simplest explanation is usually true.  At this point, I think that either (a) that baby is Jon Snow, or (b) we are left with complex, convoluted "explanations" and theories for how that baby is NOT Jon Snow.  

I think it is off the charts unlikely that the show or GRRM will now take on the Herculean task of trying to convince people that it somehow makes sense that that baby is NOT Jon Snow, contrary to the mountain of overwhelming clues and evidence we have been given over five books, thousands of pages and dozens of hours of showtime, culminating in Episode 610 (with the view of the baby's face cutting directly to the view of Jon Snow's face, no less) 

 

[Blueroses]

2 hours ago, Cron said:

My friends and fellow ASOIAF enthusiasts, I think the only way it could be more clear that that baby is Jon Snow would be if he had been born with the words "I AM JON SNOW" tattooed on his forehead.

Even so, I think some poeple could still pretend it means nothning 

Unless "Son of Lyanna Stark" has another meaning, the baby we saw is definitely Jon:

http://viewers-guide.hbo.com/game-of-thrones/season-6/episode-10/houses/4/house-stark

[Cron]

1 minute ago, Blueroses said:

Even so, I think some poeple could still pretend it means nothning 

Unless "Son of Lyanna Stark" has another meaning, the baby we saw is definitely Jon:

http://viewers-guide.hbo.com/game-of-thrones/season-6/episode-10/houses/4/house-stark

Good stuff.

Yeah, it's confirmed.

I guess next the show will have to address the fact that some people seem to believe Jon's father may be Aerys (yes, the Mad King), a theory I admit I don't even understand.

[Asvpxkvng]

1 hour ago, Cron said:

Good stuff.

Yeah, it's confirmed.

I guess next the show will have to address the fact that some people seem to believe Jon's father may be Aerys (yes, the Mad King), a theory I admit I don't even understand.

Ha yea the first time I heard that I though "Ooooh interesting" then within the first split second of thinking about it I saw how laughably convoluted it would have to be to make sense. Then again I'm not an ASOIAF historian so who knows maybe the events line up. If someone understands it please explain it! I'd love to hear. I believe the Dayne is too complicated for the show so I'm going with the default R+L=J for now.

Let's talk about if his half Targaryen self gives him any significant control over dragons! A point of consideration for this topic, he's half Stark and has displayed no warging or green seeing ability but then again not all Starks do.

[Cragen]

5 hours ago, Asvpxkvng said:

Ha yea the first time I heard that I though "Ooooh interesting" then within the first split second of thinking about it I saw how laughably convoluted it would have to be to make sense. Then again I'm not an ASOIAF historian so who knows maybe the events line up. If someone understands it please explain it! I'd love to hear. I believe the Dayne is too complicated for the show so I'm going with the default R+L=J for now.

Let's talk about if his half Targaryen self gives him any significant control over dragons! A point of consideration for this topic, he's half Stark and has displayed no warging or green seeing ability but then again not all Starks do.

Actually, he is warg, powerful one. I don't know why show didn't bring it up. Arya is powerful warg to.

[jrod]

21 minutes ago, Cragen said:

Actually, he is warg, powerful one. I don't know why show didn't bring it up. Arya is powerful warg to.

The show hasn't really shown/talked about the difference between a warg and a greenseer like the books have.  Don't know if they thought the general audiences couldn't/wouldn't follow that they were different, or if they maybe wanted to make Bran seem even more special by being like the only one who could do any of it?