Not Confirmed

[Banner Without Brothers]

R+L=J is not confirmed.

Now I'll probably get some hate for this and I have to start by saying that it is about 99% confirmed. But for anyone like me who hates the idea of Jon "Jesus" Targaryan being the magical Chosen royal blood Prophecy fulfiller I want to offer some hope, no matter how small. 

First big one the hair. We know how important hair is in the story. That baby is so blonde I think it would be more accurate to call it silver. If they wanted to 100% confirm Jon they would have had a baby with black hair. Of course babies hair can darken as they grow older but by the time that Ned brought him back to Winterfell? It's definitely a deliberate hole that will have to be filled in with either secret constant hair dye or magic, a glamour perhaps. https://youtu.be/dkvkT5D3fF4?t=280

No name. Why keep the name a secret? Is there really any need. Yes it was nicely done, the cut from the babies eyes into Jon's but we still could have had the name. Perhaps they could have had the "name is...." bit as the cut to Jon was happening. It's another deliberate hole 

Ah screw it, that's all I got if any other like minded optimists have anything else I'd love to hear it. But it's still enough for it to not be confirmed. It's just very, very, very likely that R+L=J.

Valar Morghulis R+L=D 

[GeorgeIAF]

36 minutes ago, Banner Without Brothers said:

R+L=J is not confirmed.

Now I'll probably get some hate for this and I have to start by saying that it is about 99% confirmed. But for anyone like me who hates the idea of Jon "Jesus" Targaryan being the magical Chosen royal blood Prophecy fulfiller I want to offer some hope, no matter how small. 

First big one the hair. We know how important hair is in the story. That baby is so blonde I think it would be more accurate to call it silver. If they wanted to 100% confirm Jon they would have had a baby with black hair. Of course babies hair can darken as they grow older but by the time that Ned brought him back to Winterfell? It's definitely a deliberate hole that will have to be filled in with either secret constant hair dye or magic, a glamour perhaps. https://youtu.be/dkvkT5D3fF4?t=280

No name. Why keep the name a secret? Is there really any need. Yes it was nicely done, the cut from the babies eyes into Jon's but we still could have had the name. Perhaps they could have had the "name is...." bit as the cut to Jon was happening. It's another deliberate hole 

Ah screw it, that's all I got if any other like minded optimists have anything else I'd love to hear it. But it's still enough for it to not be confirmed. It's just very, very, very likely that R+L=J.

Valar Morghulis R+L=D 

They didn't confirmed it because they wanted this. They wanted to leave people talk about something until the new season arrives. It's clearly Jon, the way the scenes pan out and so on, it will be a big FUCK YOU to the audience if the child is anyone but Jon. Also earlier there were hints when Jon said to Sansa "I promise".

[Red Tiger]

Why even make this thread? It feels like you dont even believe the stuff you wrote.

They didnt outright say the name because they probably thought "hey, our audience cant possibly be so stupid as to not realize what's going on".

[rodrigobraganca]

Just because Ben didn't said: Gee, Jon snow is my cousin, doesn't mean is not confirmed.

[Baelor_the_Blessed]

So, does that TOJ scene pretty much dispel the speculation that Meera is Jon Snow's twin sister?

[Banner Without Brothers]

1 minute ago, Red Tiger said:

Why even make this thread? It feels like you dont even believe the stuff you wrote.

They didnt outright say the name because they probably thought "hey, our audience cant possibly be so stupid as to not realize what's going on".

Because IF it's true and a bigger IF it's not a show only thing it will be a major let down in terms of the story to me and I assume many others who weren't on the R+L=J hype train. 

While many will have been screaming "YEEEEEESSSS confirmed" or at least "At Last *sigh*"

A large section of us were screaming "NOOOOOO" or at least "FFS *sigh*"

I hope now you can deem this thread worthy of existing.

[Banner Without Brothers]

52 minutes ago, GeorgeIAF said:

They didn't confirmed it because they wanted this. They wanted to leave people talk about something until the new season arrives. It's clearly Jon, the way the scenes pan out and so on, it will be a big FUCK YOU to the audience if the child is anyone but Jon. Also earlier there were hints when Jon said to Sansa "I promise".

I don't think it would be a major FU to the audience. I think it would be a shocking twist, which is the reason so many people like the story. I mean you could call main protagonist Ned getting his head chopped off a giant FU or a shocking twist or the red wedding or a number of other things.

[Red Tiger]

1 minute ago, Banner Without Brothers said:

Because IF it's true and a bigger IF it's not a show only thing it will be a major let down in terms of the story to me and I assume many others who weren't on the R+L=J hype train. 

While many will have been screaming "YEEEEEESSSS confirmed" or at least "At Last *sigh*"

A large section of us were screaming "NOOOOOO" or at least "FFS *sigh*"

I hope now you can deem this thread worthy of existing.

Wasnt even saying that, oh ye of sensitivity. I was seriously just wondering.

[Lord Lannister]

?+L=J is pretty much 100% confirmed.

Some think Arthur Dayne may have been the dad. Some of the more crackpot theories put Brandon and Benjen as the dad. But if they flat out say it, then there's little to be excited about and discuss after the initial "shock. Even if it's 99% probably it's Rhaegar ,disproving R+L is a pet hobby of mine even if I don't believe it.

[ShadowKitteh]

Lyanna to Ned : "...want to kill HIM." ".....keep HIM safe."

The baby was BALD, and an infant. 

Confirmed.

[Banner Without Brothers]

6 minutes ago, Lord Lannister said:

?+L=J is pretty much 100% confirmed.

Some think Arthur Dayne may have been the dad. Some of the more crackpot theories put Brandon and Benjen as the dad. But if they flat out say it, then there's little to be excited about and discuss after the initial "shock. Even if it's 99% probably it's Rhaegar ,disproving R+L is a pet hobby of mine even if I don't believe it.

?+L= Silver haired baby is 100% confirmed. It's 99% Jon is the baby but until I see absolute confirmation, preferably GRRM confirmation there's still hope, even if it's a slim hope. 

 

[ShadowKitteh]

5 minutes ago, Lord Lannister said:

?+L=J is pretty much 100% confirmed.

Some think Arthur Dayne may have been the dad. Some of the more crackpot theories put Brandon and Benjen as the dad. But if they flat out say it, then there's little to be excited about and discuss after the initial "shock. Even if it's 99% probably it's Rhaegar ,disproving R+L is a pet hobby of mine even if I don't believe it.

I guess you're the person, who when writing an action/fantasy novel, would never go with the most exciting choice of those you have that would affect the overall plot line, because in your mind that's too obvious, even though you could write it like a mystery to the point even yourself has doubts. But instead, go with the choice that's just a red herring, and most readers wouldn't care anything about whatsoever.

Or are you the person who writes it so that most people think it will really matter to the endgame of the story, and yank all that away at the last minute because the boring choice that doesn't matter at all is.... more rewarding for you to taste the tears of your disappointed fans instead of hails and thank-yous.

 

[Lord Lannister]

3 minutes ago, ShadowKitteh said:

I guess you're the person, who when writing an action/fantasy novel, would never go with the most exciting choice of those you have that would affect the overall plot line, because in your mind that's too obvious, even though you could write it like a mystery to the point even yourself has doubts. But instead, go with the choice that's just a red herring, and most readers wouldn't care anything about whatsoever.

Or are you the person who writes it so that most people think it will really matter to the endgame of the story, and yank all that away at the last minute because the boring choice that doesn't matter at all is.... more rewarding for you to taste the tears of your disappointed fans instead of hails and thank-yous.

 

Actually I'm just another fan on a message board.

[ricardoromell]

Well the scene cutting to Jon Snow and then Houses pledging alliances to Jon Snow even being a bastard. The whole set up was meant to bring to light the character of Jon Snow. He did not need to be highborn, it shows that even a seemingly scorned person with good virtues can earn his due reward. That was what i took way from it. For years we have been bothered by who was Jon Snows parents, and when we get it it really does not matter, its least relevant. I

What matters is who is Jon Snow, the person, the commander and the king in the north ?

 

[Reuben Stoneheart]

I think it's safe to assume the baby was Jon.

Why would they have a shot of the baby's face immediatedly cut to a shot of Jon's face with dramatic music? They did that to confirm to everyone that the baby was Jon in case anyone hadn't already worked it out.

[GhostNymeria]

Even when it's confirmed in the books, there will still be people who claim that it's not 100% confirmed, or that GRRM changed his mind because their are other clues*cough*Preston Jacobs*cough* 

1 hour ago, Banner Without Brothers said:

Now I'll probably get some hate for this and I have to start by saying that it is about 99% confirmed. But for anyone like me who hates the idea of Jon "Jesus" Targaryan being the magical Chosen royal blood Prophecy fulfiller I want to offer some hope, no matter how small. 

Then you say this:

1 hour ago, Banner Without Brothers said:

Valar Morghulis R+L=D 

So you have no problem with Dany taking this exact same role then? What's the difference? 

[Banner Without Brothers]

24 minutes ago, ShadowKitteh said:

Lyanna to Ned : "...want to kill HIM." ".....keep HIM safe."

The baby was BALD, and an infant. 

Confirmed.

The baby is not bald click the youtube link I posted. Although the kid is so blonde I could see how you could make that mistake.

Thanks for addressing the hair issue. It's the main point of contention.

Not Confirmed 

[GeorgeIAF]

4 minutes ago, ricardoromell said:

Well the scene cutting to Jon Snow and then Houses pledging alliances to Jon Snow even being a bastard. The whole set up was meant to bring to light the character of Jon Snow. He did not need to be highborn, it shows that even a seemingly scorned person with good virtues can earn his due reward. That was what i took way from it. For years we have been bothered by who was Jon Snows parents, and when we get it it really does not matter, its least relevant. I

What matters is who is Jon Snow, the person, the commander and the king in the north ?

 

This !!! 1000 times this !!

[Banner Without Brothers]

2 minutes ago, Reuben Stoneheart said:

I think it's safe to assume the baby was Jon.

Why would they have a shot of the baby's face immediatedly cut to a shot of Jon's face with dramatic music? They did that to confirm to everyone that the baby was Jon in case anyone hadn't already worked it out.

You say it yourself, you assume it's Jon but that's very different to confirming it's Jon. It could be to lead the viewer into believing the massively hyped massively spoiled theory just to have an even bigger shock when it's revealed to not be true. 

Like I keep saying it's probably Jon but not confirmed. It's not outside the realms of possibility that it's not Jon.

[yakisikli123]

4 minutes ago, Banner Without Brothers said:

You say it yourself, you assume it's Jon but that's very different to confirming it's Jon. It could be to lead the viewer into believing the massively hyped massively spoiled theory just to have an even bigger shock when it's revealed to not be true. 

Like I keep saying it's probably Jon but not confirmed. It's not outside the realms of possibility that it's not Jon.

Then you have to say who else if not Jon.

We also know Ned is not father of this child.