What will Arya do now

[no_one_...]

23 minutes ago, BeeStark said:

 I think I'd like to see that. 

I mentioned in another thread I think Arya will assume Sansa's image and catch LF w/his guard down and take him out  But, not before LF gets Jon killed and BoB revive him again.  Then Arya will reunite w/Sansa and rip her a new one before forgiving her.

Edit: Bonus points if she mind fucks LF by using her Mom's face as well as Sansa's before putting him down.

[Cron]

On 6/27/2016 at 5:55 AM, LastManStanding said:

She did say she will go home, so I don't see why she wouldn't go to Winterfell, especially when word gets out that Jon and Sansa are there. The Twins and Riverrun are up for grabs now...

Yeah, this is my thought, too.

Once word filters down that Jon is the King in the North at Winterfell, and Sansa is Lady of Winterfell, Arya will be headed north on the fastest horse she can beg, borrow or steal (quite possibly joining up with Sandor and the Brothers Without Banners on the way)

Wow, it would be incredible to see Arya, Jon and Sansa reunited.

Then Bran comes down from Castle Black, and some heads are gonna roll!

HARRR!!!

[tormond]

2 hours ago, no_one_... said:

I mentioned in another thread I think Arya will assume Sansa's image and catch LF w/his guard down and take him out  But, not before LF gets Jon killed and BoB revive him again.  Then Arya will reunite w/Sansa and rip her a new one before forgiving her.

Edit: Bonus points if she mind fucks LF by using her Mom's face as well as Sansa's before putting him down.

You do know that Arya has to kill a person, rip off their face and then wear it. So to be Sansa, she has to kill her, cut out her face, give it whatever treatment it needs and then put it over her own face.

 

 

[no_one_...]

1 hour ago, tormond said:

You do know that Arya has to kill a person, rip off their face and then wear it. So to be Sansa, she has to kill her, cut out her face, give it whatever treatment it needs and then put it over her own face.

 

 

That's a way, my understanding it's not the only way.

For example Arya saw her face on a dead "no one" who killed himself w/poison.

[Arya Targaryen]

On 2016. 06. 30. at 5:50 AM, no_one_... said:

The problem I have w/Arya assuming this role is that it completely makes her character evil. She didn't just look for justice in killing the Freys. She fed the sons to their father. She maybe "lawful evil" in the sense she has a morality, but she crossed a line that she can't come back from. They destroyed her character w/this scene. 

But is this evil in-story? I mean, the Rat Cook story was included in the show as well - they won't do it for nothing. That story is about a son being fed to the father. And it's also about breaking guest right.

I'm not sure whether it is mentioned in the show, or is it book-only, but it is pointed out re: the Rat Cook, that the main problem with him was not that he killed the son and baked him into a pie (or whatever) since everybody has the right for vengeance. Breaking guest right, that why he was punished by the Gods. and Walder Frey did exactly that: he broke guest right. It was a fitting end for him.

[MoreOrLess]

On ‎29‎/‎06‎/‎2016 at 6:52 AM, GravyFace said:

What D&D said in the 'inside the episode" thing was a bit disturbing. That we've seen her "descend" into a pretty dark place, she's basically a highly skilled assassin. Is there any way for her to come back from that descent? I don't see her ever reaching a point where she finds happiness and can settle down.

That's actually why I think her heading to Winterfell and suddenly turning over a new leaf when reunited with Jon and Sansa would seem a bit cheap, whether she does turn herself around or meets her end on her current path I think it needs to be given more depth than that.

It does seem setup for her to link up with some combination of The Hound, Mel and the Brotherhood and you could argue that Mel heading south now has the potential to divert them in that direction. The Hound especially is obviously the character she has the strongest link to that the show clearly looked to bring up again this season plus of course theres the potential for his own revenge on his brother if she heads to KL with him.

Generally going after Cersei seems to make more sense to me, the KL plot is afterall very thin on characters right now plus I think having Ayra and potentially others involved potentially makes sense with where its going. If the end game there is Cersei potentially destroying the city with WF when under threat from Dany then it makes sense to have Ayra and the Hound involved with stopping her along with potentially Jamie(maybe at the cost of all or some of their lives). That's obviously a way in which both of there stories can be diverted away from revenge for its own sake towards working for the greater good.

[no_one_...]

12 hours ago, Arya Targaryen said:

But is this evil in-story? I mean, the Rat Cook story was included in the show as well - they won't do it for nothing. That story is about a son being fed to the father. And it's also about breaking guest right.

I'm not sure whether it is mentioned in the show, or is it book-only, but it is pointed out re: the Rat Cook, that the main problem with him was not that he killed the son and baked him into a pie (or whatever) since everybody has the right for vengeance. Breaking guest right, that why he was punished by the Gods. and Walder Frey did exactly that: he broke guest right. It was a fitting end for him.

Yes.  The punishment is along the lines of an eye for an eye, but that's still evil even if one were to say it's justifiable by the crime.  You'll notice in the RC story it's the Gods who execute that particular form justice, not another person.  While I get the poetic sense of the justice it's arguably morally worse than the banned (for awhile) Flayed Man practice by House Bolton.  

Now again, my issue isn't that it occurred, there's plenty of messed up things in the show and that's part of what makes it enjoyable. My issue is that it's Arya doing it is counter to character growth shown this season (which is arguably the sole reason her character was written to try and join the Faceless Men).    

[chasing the dragons]

Is this the place to ask if anyone else is wondering if area left a mark of some kind when they showed Walder's hands fall away from his throat then Arya reaching into his neck.

[MoreOrLess]

7 hours ago, no_one_... said:

Now again, my issue isn't that it occurred, there's plenty of messed up things in the show and that's part of what makes it enjoyable. My issue is that it's Arya doing it is counter to character growth shown this season (which is arguably the sole reason her character was written to try and join the Faceless Men).    

One obvious reason to have her join the faceless men was to devolp the abilities we now see and the mental toughness to use them plus I would argue on a person level she's facing the potential for both a loss of interest in her past life and the loss of self entirely.

What did we really see in the climax of that story? Lady Crane helps to heal Ayra and theres the suggestion she might join the actors troop or if not that she'll take to exploring the world rather than returning to her previous position. The Waif killing Lady Crane and attacking her though ends with Ayra carving her face off and telling Jaqen that she's reclaiming her old identity, he looks somewhat shocked but as she leaves more proud than anything else(still not entirely convinced this wasn't his plan)..

You could take the positive that Ayra isn't killing random people for money but I would consider it a disappointment if we saw Ayra having totally given up on her revenge focus. For that to happen I think we'd need a much bigger emotional payoff than we've had thus far, perhaps involving the Hound, Mel(maybe even Gendry?) although I suspect she'll never go back to her old life and will die for a greater good(maybe killing Cersei or LF for the greater good).

When considering her moral level now the obvious difference between her and the Freys/Boltons is the motivation behind her actions, she's brutal and takes pleasure in killing people but this is an emotional scared child who's had both parents killed near her presence and has live under near constant threat for several years avenging herself on people behind that. In terms of viewing the scene the implication to me seemed to be that there was both some degree of catharsis selling Walder punished for his crimes but also a clear acknowledgement of Ayra's less than white moral position, if we'd not seen the creepy look from her I think the scene would have been more morally questionable writing wise.

[Anarres]

Maisie Williams said that the thinking behind Arya going to the Twins was that she was pretty sure that was where Walder Frey would be, whereas the other people on her list were less obvious. That makes me hopeful that she will stick with her list and head to King's Landing. Then again she might hear about the new King in the North and decide to head north instead.

The series also seems to be focussing the King's Landing story on Cersei vs. Targaryen loyalists with Jamie as a wildcard. But Arya's strengths just don't seem to come into play in the North at all; what is she going to do there? Stark reunions are great, but as we already saw this season it's hard to pull off two equally compelling stories whilst the characters are together all the time. Having Sansa, Arya, Jon and potentially Bran all together in one place would make that even more of a challenge.

Likewise a drop-in assassination like that of the Freys seems problematic in King's Landing and not all that engaging. It would basically become a question of which anonymous handmaiden Arya is disguised as being able to get close to Cersei. That seems quite the boring story.

[GilletteMace]

i would really love it if arya attempted to kill cersei, but fails. having the mountain hack arya in two pieces would be golden.

[MoreOrLess]

I could see Jamie, Ayra and the Hound potentially all involved with(although perhaps not directly collaborating) foiling a Cersei Wildfire plot, maybe with the latter two taking out the Mountain and Qyburn.

[FingerlittleGood]

On June 27, 2016 at 8:36 AM, Lord Varys said:

I don't even understand how she can switch faces now. That wasn't shown to her by the Faceless Men, right? They just gave them to her.

Arya's plot now officially sucks in the show. Not that it was ever very good. But nobody thought it would be about her killing the people on her list. At least I did not. I thought she might actually do something of importance and involve herself in politics one way or another. By getting an assignment to kill somebody.

Sure, she should eventually see her family again. But that is just crap.

And what's the point of that? To kill Melisandre when Davos could have done it already?

No, Mel will help arrange the alliance between Jon and Dany.

Yea the entire Arya and faceless men was a disaster when the concept was IMO could have been one of the best story lines in the show if not written so poorly. 1. It goes back and forth of what is allowed/not allowed with the faceless men. 2. She is being trained in Poison, blind combat but never trained in switching faces and assassination. 2. When she did use a face to kill she was then punished for killing for revenge and stealing from the faceless god.. 3. She is stabbed and wounded when she returns to put the face on the wall and Jaqen just seems fine with her leaving. Next scene she is back normal, switching faces and revenge killing. The entire story is all over the place 

[a black swan]

2 minutes ago, FingerlittleGood said:

Yea the entire Arya and faceless men was a disaster when the concept was IMO could have been one of the best story lines in the show if not written so poorly. 1. It goes back and forth of what is allowed/not allowed with the faceless men. 2. She is being trained in Poison, blind combat but never trained in switching faces and assassination. 2. When she did use a face to kill she was then punished for killing for revenge and stealing from the faceless god.. 3. She is stabbed and wounded when she returns to put the face on the wall and Jaqen just seems fine with her leaving. Next scene she is back normal, switching faces and revenge killing. The entire story is all over the place 

1. Such as?

2. She already can change faces in s5. Arya asks to use a face for her LC assassination assignment, her second that we have seen. In s5, you see Arya learning to gather and interpret information and use poisons. Yes they punished her. That just shows Arya v the FM conflict. Arya always came there for her own ends and not the FM. Plus, the going Blind element of her training is also very important. 

Read this interview the actor that plays Jaqen/KM did after Arya leaves the FM:

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/game-thrones-tom-wlaschiha-interview-903976

 

Is there anything to the irony that Crane is playing Cersei Lannister on stage — one of the final names remaining on Arya's list? Do you see that at all as testing the limits between being Arya and being "no one," someone who is supposed to abandon personal grudges?

I'm not really sure. Jaqen had always said he wanted Arya to become "no one," but I think that was in order to give her the best possible training. I'm not sure he ever expected her to fully become "no one." If she had, then she would just become a Faceless Man in Braavos. I think the ultimate goal has always been for her to go back to Westeros and play some sort of important role in the final battle. I think this whole thing of becoming "no one," it's to give her the best training possible. I don't think he ever expected her to become "no one." That's why there's this smirk in the end, when she tells him that she's still Arya Stark, because I think he's pleased in a way. She's gone through with all the hard training, and now she's ready to go back.

 

How would you describe Jaqen's journey, not just this season, but throughout the series?

Well, it's safe to say that the Faceless Men certainly have an interest in what's going on in Westeros. Jaqen just appears from nowhere in season two and picks Arya to train her. Now, by the end of season six, she's pretty much finished her training and going back to Westeros. Unless all of that was really selfless on his part, I think the Faceless Men want to have some sort of influence on what's happening in Westeros, and Arya being their weapon.

Interesting. When Arya leaves Jaqen, one wonders if he's disappointed in her choice — but there's almost a look of pride on his face as she walks away. Is that how you played it?

Yeah. I think Jaqen had a weak moment there. (Laughs.) I think, and it's my interpretation here, that he enjoyed seeing Arya succeed. The whole Waif thing, whatever it may have been, may have just been the ultimate test. He never told her that her training was going to be easy. I think he's been constantly testing her to make sure she gets stronger and make sure she gets to be the best contender in Westeros that she can be.

 

[FingerlittleGood]

5 minutes ago, DutchArya said:

1. Such as?

2. She already can change faces in s5. Arya asks to use a face for her LC assassination assignment, her second that we have seen. In s5, you see Arya learning to gather and interpret information and use poisons. Yes they punished her. That just shows Arya v the FM conflict. Arya always came there for her own ends and not the FM. Plus, the going Blind element of her training is also very important. 

Read this interview the actor that plays Jaqen/KM did after Arya leaves the FM:

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/game-thrones-tom-wlaschiha-interview-903976

 

Is there anything to the irony that Crane is playing Cersei Lannister on stage — one of the final names remaining on Arya's list? Do you see that at all as testing the limits between being Arya and being "no one," someone who is supposed to abandon personal grudges?

I'm not really sure. Jaqen had always said he wanted Arya to become "no one," but I think that was in order to give her the best possible training. I'm not sure he ever expected her to fully become "no one." If she had, then she would just become a Faceless Man in Braavos. I think the ultimate goal has always been for her to go back to Westeros and play some sort of important role in the final battle. I think this whole thing of becoming "no one," it's to give her the best training possible. I don't think he ever expected her to become "no one." That's why there's this smirk in the end, when she tells him that she's still Arya Stark, because I think he's pleased in a way. She's gone through with all the hard training, and now she's ready to go back.

 

How would you describe Jaqen's journey, not just this season, but throughout the series?

Well, it's safe to say that the Faceless Men certainly have an interest in what's going on in Westeros. Jaqen just appears from nowhere in season two and picks Arya to train her. Now, by the end of season six, she's pretty much finished her training and going back to Westeros. Unless all of that was really selfless on his part, I think the Faceless Men want to have some sort of influence on what's happening in Westeros, and Arya being their weapon.

Interesting. When Arya leaves Jaqen, one wonders if he's disappointed in her choice — but there's almost a look of pride on his face as she walks away. Is that how you played it?

Yeah. I think Jaqen had a weak moment there. (Laughs.) I think, and it's my interpretation here, that he enjoyed seeing Arya succeed. The whole Waif thing, whatever it may have been, may have just been the ultimate test. He never told her that her training was going to be easy. I think he's been constantly testing her to make sure she gets stronger and make sure she gets to be the best contender in Westeros that she can be.

 

Yea but she is punished for stealing a face and taking a life that wasn't meant for her to take. The faceless men live and kill by a code and now Arya has free Reign to just leave, kill who she likes and take faces? The story would have been much better if they just trained her and quit trying to apply rules into what she is allowed to do if she is now free to do anything she wants

[Rhollo]

I wonder if she will go blind again from using the stolen(?) face at the Twins.

Because as Jaquen clearly explained at the end of last season right before she lost her sight: "The faces are for no one, you are still someone ... and to someone the faces are as good as poison".

And Arya is clearly not "no one" when murdering Walder.

[a black swan]

On 6/29/2016 at 6:03 AM, Lord Varys said:

As to Arya's Braavos plot:

Once you think a little about her change there it makes no sense at all.

1. We are supposed to believe that a jealous actress could afford hiring a Faceless Man to kill her rival? That is not going to happen in the books. The Faceless Men are expensive and quite obviously not a society you hire for personal gain. If that was the case then, well, many more people in Braavos and elsewhere would die on a regular basis.

2. We are supposed to believe the jealous actress hangs out with the person she wants dead in a manner that allows Arya to figure out that she wants her dead? That's not going to happen, either. Not to mention that somebody wanting the job of somebody else isn't necessarily proof that she wants that other person dead (or has hired an assassin to do the job).

Therefore Arya's conversion story (if it happens at all in the books) will never happen in this fashion. George is not going to write a story that is so full of holes.

I suggest reading these greats Metas on The Faceless Men serious explaining a lot of your confusion. Which had to be simplified for TV viewers as you probably already know. 

1. Perhaps you could benefit from reading this as well. There is a section explaining the payments required for their services. They can take payment in many ways: Money, possessions, service, or another life. It's arbitrary depending on the person asking and the target being offered up.  

2. She works in the Play. What did you expect? 

3. The Mercy chapter where she works in the play was already released. We already know it won't play out this way in the books. lol d&d have simplified and condensed her story leaving a few very clear points: Arya will not kill innocent people or be controlled by others. Avenging her family and protecting her House are deeply important to her story. Her training focused on poisons & using darkness as a weapon. < Likely to come into play later on in the series... With you know, the Long Night on the way bringing the WW with it. 

The Braavos story in the books is very detailed and layered. It's impossible for already limited writers like d&d to make sense of it. I think you might be giving them way too much credit. It's hard for readers to do so as well without grrm finishing that part of Arya's story which is yet to come. 

 

As for this thread, Arya will likely see Mel again who she has removed from her list but might not like very much. She will tell Arya Gendry is still alive and free some where and also explain what has happened in Winterfell and with Jon's death and resurrection. All things that matter deeply to Arya. s7 will have Arya make peace with her List and with the WW threat, see the bigger picture in protecting her House and the North and her family. << Her List was always her way of coping with the loss and now that she has family again 

The Hound and the BwB are also moving North and may cross paths with Arya. Thoros will fill Mel's spot with Jon. Beric might help Jon deal with his death ordeal. Eventually, Jon the Targ & Co. will move South to gather forces and ally with Dany.  

[Lord Varys]

12 minutes ago, DutchArya said:

1. Perhaps you could benefit from reading this as well. There is a section explaining the payments required for their services. They can take payment in many ways: Money, possessions, service, or another life. It's arbitrary depending on the person asking and the target being offered up.  

That is speculation. The general vibe you get from the waif's story as well as the fact that nobody seems to hire the Faceless Men on a regular basis to kill people in Westeros is that there is more to the whole thing than just coin - but an actual sacrifice. There might be exceptions and all, of course, but until we have actually witnessed a business deal between a client and the House of Black and White we don't really know how this whole thing works.

12 minutes ago, DutchArya said:

2. She works in the Play. What did you expect?

I expected a story that was less blatantly obvious and less based on stupid assumptions like Arya correctly guessing who wanted somebody dead, or a no-name actress actually having the coin to hire a Faceless Man or needing to hire a Faceless Man if she has access and opportunity to do the deed herself. Poisoning her drink didn't exactly require the greatest assassin of all time.

More importantly, the difference wasn't that the woman was 'innocent' it was that Arya liked her. That is no good reason not to kill her.

 

[a black swan]

1 hour ago, FingerlittleGood said:

Yea but she is punished for stealing a face and taking a life that wasn't meant for her to take. The faceless men live and kill by a code and now Arya has free Reign to just leave, kill who she likes and take faces? The story would have been much better if they just trained her and quit trying to apply rules into what she is allowed to do if she is now free to do anything she wants

Arya came into the HoBW with an agenda Jaqen/KM knew about. They seem to be using eachother. We know in the books Jaqen is on several missions and turned up in Old Town where Sam is right now. Possibly looking for a book on destroying Dragons. Again, there are more details in these metas on the Faceless Men. 

Like Jaqen in explaining in the interview I linked to, throughout their time together the FM have known Arya would never become No One. She just needed the necessary training to be able to accomplish something important later on. The WW threat in particular possess a problem. What side would the FM take in that regard? The Long Night is another important factor to consider. Darkness seems to be the WW way into Westeros and the darkness is something d&d focused Arya's training on. She kills and leaves Braavos through this method. 

s7 will likely be about Arya reconnecting with everything Arya Stark: Her direwolf, key players in her journey, ultimately rebuilding the pieces she lost of herself.  

[a black swan]

1 hour ago, Lord Varys said:

That is speculation. The general vibe you get from the waif's story as well as the fact that nobody seems to hire the Faceless Men on a regular basis to kill people in Westeros is that there is more to the whole thing than just coin - but an actual sacrifice. There might be exceptions and all, of course, but until we have actually witnessed a business deal between a client and the House of Black and White we don't really know how this whole thing works.

This is not speculation when it is referencing the books: asoiafwiki

Your vibe may be off. They considered hiring a FM to kill Dany with Robert's Small Council but decided the large amount of coin would be better spent elsewhere. Like I said, the price is arbitrary and dependent on the claimant and the target they are requesting. 

Arya seems to give Jaqen his life back when she un-names him at Harrenhal (why it mattered considering he is supposed to be No One and shouldn't be afraid to die.) Unless there is something not right with Jaqen. Arya even wonders if he was sent by the Gods? He claims to be using a face of a criminal named Jaqen H'ghar who comes from Lorathi who all speak in 3rd person. Yet when he reveals he knows Arya's identity, he slips:

 

Quote

 

Arya lowered the splintery point toward the ground. "How did you know I was here?"

"A man sees. A man hears. A man knows."

She regarded him suspiciously. Had the gods sent him? "How'd you make the dog kill Weese? Did you call Rorge and Biter up from hell? Is Jaqen H'ghar your true name?"

"Some men have many names. Weasel. Arry. Arya."

She backed away from him, until she was pressed against the heart tree. "Did Gendry tell?"

"A man knows," he said again. "My lady of Stark."

 

 

 

Whoever is wearing Jaqen's face seems to have chosen Arya. Why? Tom who plays Jaqen hints at possible ulterior motives that involve Westeros. Perhaps d&d will continue to expound on that mystery or we can wait for grrm to.