Queen of Dragons Marrying King in the North

[Being Daenerys Targaryen]

20 hours ago, Cragen said:

Torrhen didn't have Bran or Arya and Aegon conquest happened during summer. Dany have Dothraki, Unsullied, Dorne and Reach, neither of armies don't know how to fight or behave in winter circumstance, if they march on North and they somehow pass Moat Callin, they would die, starved and rest of them would be to frozen and tired in time they reach Winterfell and they would be easy pick for northerners and Wildlings. Dany can burn some castles, but that will not bring her closer to occupying North. Dragons can be killed by weirwood arrows, Arya could kill Dany, Bran is strongest warg that ever lived, even if he can't warg dragon he have every animal he want at his disposal. It wouldn't be easy conquest at all.

Interesting... Winter has come... The unsullied and the dothraki army are used to the heat... Khaleesi won't take the north that easily... Not sure actually. I don’t think tht things will always be that easy for her… She will have to negotiate... Or perhaps, she will use her dragons to threaten the Notherners... But then, someone will have to remind her that they are sharing a common enemy. They need every single fighter they can have. Jon killed Ramsey and his army because they were fighting against the living (just to remind people)… Khaleesi had a quite simple life… She worked hard but people don’t follow her because she is a good fighter or a good ruler (she isn’t even a good one… Tyrion is a better one). People follow her because she has 3 dragons and she is unburnt… ON the contrary, Jon is not fireproof, and doesn’t have dragons. Risked his life (beyond the wall), faced the WW to fight for ALL the living! He didn’t just fight to take a bloody ugly chair back to put his arse! He fought bravely … He isn’t weak! I can even think that he’s stronger than Khaleesi...

Just to add that I liked the parallel between Khaleesi’s big fire and Cercei’s big fire… 

[Cragen]

2 minutes ago, Being Daenerys Targaryen said:

Interesting... Winter has come... The unsullied and the dothraki army are used to the heat... Khaleesi won't take the north that easily... Not sure actually. I don’t think tht things will always be that easy for her… She will have to negotiate... Or perhaps, she will use her dragons to threaten the Notherners... But then, someone will have to remind her that they are sharing a common enemy. They need every single fighter they can have. Jon killed Ramsey and his army because they were fighting against the living (just to remind people)… Khaleesi had a quite simple life… She worked hard but people don’t follow her because she is a good fighter or a good ruler (she isn’t even a good one… Tyrion is a better one). People follow her because she has 3 dragons and she is unburnt… ON the contrary, Jon is not fireproof, and doesn’t have dragons. Risked his life (beyond the wall), faced the WW to fight for ALL the living! He didn’t just fight to take a bloody ugly chair back to put his arse! He fought bravely … He isn’t weak! I can even think that he’s stronger than Khaleesi...

 

Just to add that I liked the parallel between Khaleesi’s big fire and Cercei’s big fire… 

 

Even if Dany for some reason want to fight North, she have Tyrion by her side and she listens him. I can't see Tyrion going to council war, especially with Jon in charge and Sansa by his side.

[Being Daenerys Targaryen]

1 hour ago, Cragen said:

Even if Dany for some reason want to fight North, she have Tyrion by her side and she listens him. I can't see Tyrion going to council war, especially with Jon in charge and Sansa by his side.

you're right...  

[Lord Friendzone]

12 hours ago, illinifan said:

Yes.  She can burn things to the ground and be the queen over ashes.  That worked out so well for her in Meereen.  That is what Tyrion pointed out to Dany is the wrong thing to do.  All she will get from that is a resentful population and burnt strongholds.  

And let's point out all the ways Dany's invasion can and I suspect will go wrong.  

1.  Euron is up to something.  They didn't introduce the character this season if he doesn't play a really important role in the endgame.  I suspect that he allies with Dany and attacks the Reach and Dorne.  This distracts Dany's allies.  What is left of the Tyrell forces cannot siege KL if they have to head back to Oldtown and protect their own lands. 

2.  Speaking of Cersei, she just figured out a way to kill all her enemies.  She is quite crafty.  Perhaps Qyburn thinks of a way to disable the dragons.

3.  Winter has come and invading the North in winter is like invading Russia in winter.  Dany can burn down as many castles as she wants but she cannot march men into the North and hold it.  Jon can easily wage a guerilla war against her from Moat Caitlin.  Oh and Dany's armies definitely are not built for winter.

4.  The Dothraki act like Dothraki and start raping and pillaging.  This turns the population against her.  It also could turn her allies against her.  Do you think that Olenna is going to appreciate if the Dothraki start looting and raping their way through the Reach?  

5.  There is squabbling and different agendas.  Dorne and the Reach are out for vengeance.  I doubt that they care if Dany sits on the Iron Throne as long as they get that.  

6.  Who is to say that the populace prefers Mad Queen Dany to Mad Queen Cersei?  Yes, Cersei burns her enemies but so does Dany.  And Dany also has as an advisor one of the most hated "villains" in the world, Tyrion Lannister.  

7.  Jon's parentage has to come out in some way; and it has to complicate things for Dany or it doesn't make sense storytelling wise.  Why else put it in there?

Cersei can be quite crafty but I would bet more on Euron to find someting. They need to do something because otherwise it's one way fight.

Dragons can burn castles but winter will be tough even for Northerners. Ironborn got fleet so they doesn't have to go through Moat Cailin.

Daeny will keep Dothraki under her control. They worship her and they will do as she commands.

Dorne and Reach are out for vengeance but they were loyal to House Targaryen in Robert's Rebellion. Rhaegar did something that offend Dorne but they'll see Daeny as someone worth of fighting. Ellaria especially would support her. Lady Olenna too if she delivers Cersei.

I don't think Daeny is Mad but Cersei well she looks like it and Jaime looked at her like she reminded him of Aerys. Tyrion doesn't know about Myrcella murder so this and of course he killed Joffrey but smallfolk cares about crops, food, water and not the game high lords play as Jorah said to Daeny.

Jon's parentage of course could serve in numerous way. First of all Jon knows his mother and identity crisis from it, Daeny's got family. Then it might be important for war against white walkers because every vision Bran had something to do with them. Jon's claim is well if he's legitimate and we don't know that. Still claim is one thing but you need army to back it up. Whoever wants iron throne needs to conquer it.

[illinifan]

Dany's invasion going as planned makes for boring TV.  The White Walkers are the most boring villains ever; they are just evil, mindless zombies.  They cannot have Dany take over in the season premiere next year and then focus for 12 episodes on the boring ice zombies.  There will be issues with her invasion, issues that have already been telegraphed.  I pointed out what those issues will be.

[The Bad Wolf]

Unless there's some bitter twist to it, not likely to happen.

[Slaysman]

I am  not sure I am on board with this marriage. It makes sense politically, but people keep forgetting the most important thing Dany has to get to the North first. This also assumes that she is even aware of what is happening with the White Walkers. On her journey north she will have battles and meetings and people swearing fealty. Not to mention troop movements and establishing supply lines. So unless she intends to burn every holdfast, keep and castle on her way, she might have to wait for sieges to be over.

I suspect when Dany and company hear about this King in the North Tyrion will assume it is Bran, Theon did tell them he did not kill the Stark boys after all. It will be later when Varys has reestablished his spy network that it is discovered that it is Jon Snow and that they are engaged in battle with the dead.

The bigger issue is how do you prove Jon's parentage? If he is Rhaegar's bastard there would be no issue, now on the increasingly likely chance he is legitimate the only person who would have proof is logically Howland Reed. Not that the North would dismiss Bran's super powers, but tree visions would hardly be compelling evidence. So my theory is when all the Northern Lords gather for Jon's coronation Howland Reed, Ned Stark's BFF, will refuse to pledge allegiance to Jon as King in the North. Instead he pledges his allegiance to whatever Jon's real name is the heir to the Iron Throne. Then he presents the evidence to all there, which will include Vale lords.

[Thor Odinson]

I think she'll be dead by the end of the series and won't marry anyone. IMO, she'll be one of the major threats to face Westeros, and she and the White Walkers are two sides of the same coin. Both are major threats to Westeros, they represent the extremes of ice and fire, and it's up to Jon, the union of ice and fire and the tempering of both extremes, to defeat both extremes before they consume all life on Westeros.

1) Daenerys is already on her way to Targaryen madness. If not for Tyrion suggesting otherwise, she would've exterminated all life in Yunkai, Astapor, and Volantis. What happens the next time she decides that that's the thing to do and nobody can talk her down from it?

2) Everything she's done has been done with the idea that she has the legitimate claim to the Iron Throne. Jon, however, has the greater claim. Does anyone think that she'll respond positively to that revelation? She won't. It'll set off another Dance of Dragons as she'll try to destroy Jon to secure her claim to the throne. She's not about to marry him and let him rule when she's absolutely convinced that she should be the one to rule.

3) This will be another case where George R. R. Martin subverts our expectations. Does anyone really expect A Song of Ice and Fire to end with a Tolkienesque battle against a Dark Lord in the form of the Night King? What else is more Martin than the final battle being not a battle of Good Vs. Evil, but a battle between two sides which believe themselves to be the good guy, and which will leave the audience emotionally torn as a large chunk of them will have been rooting the entire series for one or both sides of the battle?

The final showdown of this series isn't Everyone Vs. White Walkers. It's Jon Vs. Daenerys. As for how it'll all turn out, my opinion?

- King's Landing, the Red Keep, and the Iron Throne will all be destroyed. No one will sit on the Iron Throne because it'll no longer exist.

- Jon will marry Sansa and reign in the North from Winterfell. They've never felt like siblings, so I expect feelings to develop between them as we go, and for the knowledge that they're really cousins to come as a huge relief to the two of them. Jon will rule the North and Winterfell through Sansa and they'll recreate the Winterfell of their childhood and the family that they lost with each other, which is really all that either of them wants now.

[Hamza]

This is how I would feel if the two got together. It would be my worst nightmare and am really hoping either kill each other before they fuck oneanother. We don't need any more insane rulers in westeros. Stop the incest. Jon is my favourite character and daenarys isn't that high, but i'd rather have them both die and the walkers win than see them rule the seven kingdoms together. 

[Nocturne]

On 27 June 2016 at 5:04 PM, Future Null Infinity said:

After thinking, I can't find another man that politically powerful enough suitable for the stormborn, Only Jon is the suitable one

The nights king? According to Lord Snow he brings the storm.

[Larger than Average Finger]

She will see him as a rival to her claim on the throne, not an ally, until the wall falls and winter sweeps south.

What happens after the war with the White Walkers is over will depend on what is left of the south, and who did what in that war.

My best guess is that they are on opposite sides before the final battle with the Walkers, that the dragons will be killed in that final battle, and that if both survive, they will rule the North and south separately.

[Slaysman]

On 9/13/2016 at 11:24 AM, Larger than Average Finger said:

She will see him as a rival to her claim on the throne, not an ally, until the wall falls and winter sweeps south.

What happens after the war with the White Walkers is over will depend on what is left of the south, and who did what in that war.

My best guess is that they are on opposite sides before the final battle with the Walkers, that the dragons will be killed in that final battle, and that if both survive, they will rule the North and south separately.

My guess is that she will be too busy handling the Fire part of the Song, just as Jon will be too busy handling the Ice part. I suspect they may meet after both parts of the song are over.

[Larger than Average Finger]

The only way I see them together is if they fight side by side against the winter, and legitimately fall or each other, which I highly doubt.

[Thor Odinson]

On ‎9‎/‎14‎/‎2016 at 1:24 PM, Slaysman said:

My guess is that she will be too busy handling the Fire part of the Song, just as Jon will be too busy handling the Ice part. I suspect they may meet after both parts of the song are over.

Except that Jon is both. I don't see why people keep saying that Jon is ice and Daenerys is fire. Jon is ice AND fire. That's the whole point.

[Ice Spider]

Everyone's premised is based on the assumption that Dany will first fight in the South. What if there is a plot twist and the WW invade sooner rather than later, and Dany comes to john's aid before taking the Iron Throne?

[Larger than Average Finger]

15 hours ago, Ice Spider said:

Everyone's premised is based on the assumption that Dany will first fight in the South. What if there is a plot twist and the WW invade sooner rather than later, and Dany comes to john's aid before taking the Iron Throne?

Bingo, I don't think its a given they solve the throne first.

[Ice Spider]

There are all kinds of plot twists people aren't thinking about that could happen within the context of the story. Dany's forces going North first is exactly what happened to Stannis

Her alliance with Dorne and the Reach could fracture as well. Then maybe we see a Euron/Dorne alliance.

 

[MoreOrLess]

On ‎14‎/‎09‎/‎2016 at 6:24 PM, Slaysman said:

My guess is that she will be too busy handling the Fire part of the Song, just as Jon will be too busy handling the Ice part. I suspect they may meet after both parts of the song are over.

There have been hints at her potentially being involved with the supernatural northern conflict of course with the vision north of the Wall in the house of the undying but it is certainly an interesting point that we all assume she will be heavily involved in the finale with the Walkers.

[Thor Odinson]

I think the assumption is that a battle against the White Walkers will be the finale. That's too Lord of the Rings, and I don't think Martin has a Lord of the Rings style ending against a Dark Lord (Night King) in store for his story. IMO, the real ending won't be Life Vs. Death, but a more complicated ending featuring a battle between Jon Vs. Daenerys. What's more Martin? A battle between Good Vs. Evil with clear distinct lines between good guys and bad guys, or a battle in which a former good guy (girl) falls from grace and tragically becomes the kind of enemy she always fought against, and now has to be put down before her three dragons and hordes of Dothraki wreak havoc on Westeros?

[MoreOrLess]

16 hours ago, Thor Odinson said:

I think the assumption is that a battle against the White Walkers will be the finale. That's too Lord of the Rings, and I don't think Martin has a Lord of the Rings style ending against a Dark Lord (Night King) in store for his story. IMO, the real ending won't be Life Vs. Death, but a more complicated ending featuring a battle between Jon Vs. Daenerys. What's more Martin? A battle between Good Vs. Evil with clear distinct lines between good guys and bad guys, or a battle in which a former good guy (girl) falls from grace and tragically becomes the kind of enemy she always fought against, and now has to be put down before her three dragons and hordes of Dothraki wreak havoc on Westeros?

The reveal of the background to the Walkers for me though hints that the focus of the finale with them isn't just going to be beating a "dark lord" though force of arms. Indeed I don't think that's the case in LOTR either where the focus of the finale is not defeating Sauron in that fashion but rather the moral test of trying to destroy the ring, Frodo's previous forgiveness of Gollum, Sam's loyalty to Frodo and the other members of the fellowship walking into near certain death as bait is what makes the finale. Likewise I think the Night King as basically a legacy of the conflict between the children and men is ripe for turning the real focus of the story away from just how to beat him and towards the various characters involved and that legacy.

Thinking of Lord of the Rings as well it brings up the potential of whether we are going to see any kind of "aftermath" post big climax, in Jacksons films we get less of one although Frodo leaving Middle Earth obviously is of importance but in the books you could actually argue the Scouring is almost as big a climax, the point where Merry and Pippin especially show how they've shown. Is Martin going to end right after the climax or is he going to have a prolonged prolong? The show doesn't seem likely to show much after the climax given how little time is left.

One interesting reversal for me might actually be if Jon and Dany have to work together vs the Walkers but Dany has to die to achieve it, maybe Jon having to run her through with a VS sword to turn it into the real light bringer. That would be an obvious shift in there stories, they've both been at risk of course but Dany has always been building towards "winning" and ruling in the end where as Jon as always built towards sacrificing himself for the greater good.