Adam Shanks

Queen of Dragons Marrying King in the North

363 posts in this topic

Why worldnt Jon want to marry someone with a giant army and three fire breathing dragon to aid him in the fight against the dead? For Jon this would be a match made in heaven. 

Ive said it for years these two will marry in the books as well as the show.  

 

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Unless D/D are giving us some red herring, it does seem like where the show is headed.  But it would have to be political.  Not much way I think there would be sparks between Dany and Jon.

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1 minute ago, jrod said:

Hard to know in the show what other political powerhouses are left.  Who is the power in the Reach who will in essence take over lordship of that region now that there are apparently no more Tyrells?  In the books the Hightowers of Old Town are very wealthy/powerful, but haven't mentioned them in the show, so can't know if that is a possible suitor?  But she already has The Reach on her side (but would maybe need to find a way to keep them there beyond just revenge).  Tyrion is most likely going to be Lord of Casterlyrock if Dany wins the throne, but again he is her Hand and won't need to marry him to bring the Westerlands under her control. 

So the North, Jon would make some sense.  Renounce being KitN to be her king, let Sansa become Lady of Winterfell, in exchange Dany uses her dragon to kill off the army of the dead north of the wall since only fire can apparently kill the wights.  The Vale, Robyn is doomed with LF around, and no way Tyrion and Varys would allow Dany to marry LF, they know how manipulative he is.  So really Jon does make the most sense of the known Lords in Westeros, so unless the show introduces some other guy.

But my biggest question is yes Dany needs to marry for alliance reasons, but who would marry her knowing they wouldn't really be "king", but husband to the queen?  Dany isn't going through all of this to sit on the sidelines while her new husband rules Westeros.

LF might just do it?

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4 minutes ago, DragonDreamer said:

to aid him in the fight against the dead?

who said that the dragons have an effect on the Others?

 

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16 hours ago, DragonDreamer said:

Why worldnt Jon want to marry someone with a giant army and three fire breathing dragon to aid him in the fight against the dead? For Jon this would be a match made in heaven. 

Ive said it for years these two will marry in the books as well as the show.  

 

why would she marry him? she gains nothing from marrying weakling , the north cant give her army or political influence or whatever shit, she can destroy subjugate them so easily, what she would gain from marrying him?

Edited by blckp

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4 minutes ago, blckp said:

what would she gain from weakling? the north has no army and no political influence , she 1000 times stronger why would she need some weakling?

North still has an army, not big, but still.  All those lords who didn't fight still have men (Manderly, Glover, etc).  Again, not nearly the force of Dany, but they still do have men.  Just sayin.

Plus as even Cersei admitted in season 1 I believe, the North is about impossible to conquer, and even harder to hold, for an outsider.  "It is too big and too wild" I believe she said.  Plus with winter there the Dothraki would be worthless in the North, and the Unsullied I believe would struggle too.  So her only other option would be using her dragons to destroy ever castle/holdfast in the North.

If I had to guess, the alliance will come about as an option to not roast the entire northern half of Dany's new kingdom and to give the North the ultimate weapon against the WW and their wights.

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1 minute ago, blckp said:

why would she marry him? she gains nothing from marrying weakling , the north cant give her army or political influence or whatever shit, she can destroy subjugate them so easily, what she would gain from marrying him?

What she gains is for her not to become an usurper who will take her nephew's rightful Throne.

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I hate this idea tbh, its so cliche and thats not Martin's style, very small sliver of me still doesn't want to believe that Jon is a Targ simply because it was the worst kept secret and so cliche as Martin's writing proves to be just the opposite but if he is than I doubt it will continue to be more cliche. Plus I just can't see the two interacting in such a way, sounds more like fanfiction to me. Something tells me she may get the throne but in the very end the one who will win won't be her (as much as I would like it to be)...heres why:

I think Jon is set up to be the "sacrifice" of the show the savior who gives everything (again) to protect the ones he loves. I think Dany will end up not getting the throne because think about everyone who since the death of Aerys has interacted with or towards the throne: (Episode 10 spoilers in tag be warned)

Spoiler

Aerys, Raeghar, the Targ family, Robert, Ned, Tywin, Jon Arryn, Joffrey, Myrcella (would have been queen), Tommen, Stannis, Renly, Margaery...even far stretch but the Sparrow (power hungry)...all dead and cersie is now queen but think she is destined to die soon due to prophecy as well as maybe Jamie who sat the throne after killing Aerys...all have had bad ends and or heading that way...even littlefinger

I think the Kingdoms will be ruled by someone who doesnt want the throne but is called to rule and I also think the final throne wont be in kingslanding either...I think Sansa may take the thrown as she has said she doesnt want the throne, she did once but she doesnt now she said so herself...plus she mirors Elizabeth the 1 and so much of the book is based on history, mirroring it quite well. My point is Martin is so meticulous that its too cliche, so I think they may interact but not in the way we think because in the end things just dont work out for those going for the throne, its martins way, so there for I don't think she will marry Jon but someone in the south, though it may happen. Plus wedding never go well so lets try and not ship them haha.

Idk just an idea.

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Just now, Jon's Queen Consort said:

who said that the dragons have an effect on the Others?

 

They can certainly destroy the millions of wights, that's a big fucking deal.  Additionally giant army of fighting men is also extremely helpful  

 

1 minute ago, blckp said:

why would she marry him? she gains nothing from marrying weakling , the north cant give her army or political influence or whatever shit, she can destroy subjugate them without so easily, what she would gain from marrying him?

Oh I don't disagree.  One of the reasons would be to stop the wars, I think. After Cersei blows up KL, Dany might lose her appetite for that kind of war. 

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16 hours ago, jrod said:

North still has an army, not big, but still.  All those lords who didn't fight still have men (Manderly, Glover, etc).  Again, not nearly the force of Dany, but they still do have men.  Just sayin.

Plus as even Cersei admitted in season 1 I believe, the North is about impossible to conquer, and even harder to hold, for an outsider.  "It is too big and too wild" I believe she said.  Plus with winter there the Dothraki would be worthless in the North, and the Unsullied I believe would struggle too.  So her only other option would be using her dragons to destroy ever castle/holdfast in the North.

If I had to guess, the alliance will come about as an option to not roast the entire northern half of Dany's new kingdom and to give the North the ultimate weapon against the WW and their wights.

the north has army 2-3k soldiers so ? even daario has that

16 hours ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

What she gains is for her not to become an usurper who will take her nephew's rightful Throne.

 

is he king of westeros? lol what since when this bastard become king of westeros? even if he becomes king of westeros what the use of him? she can easily conquer westeros with right of conquest ,whoever stiing iron throne is irrelevant,  what he gonna do cry? lol

Edited by blckp

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Should remember the historical context which Martin used as inspiration when making the series. The whole war of roses and rise of the Tudors which led eventually to the scottish (insert "The North" )  dynasty of the Stuarts claiming the english throne through marriage ties with Henry Tudor's sister after a couple of generations had passed. Might be a parallel I believe for a stark/targaryen marriage somewhat.

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5 minutes ago, blckp said:

why would she marry him? she gains nothing from marrying weakling , the north cant give her army or political influence or whatever shit, she can destroy subjugate them so easily, what she would gain from marrying him?

Because there is literally no one else.

 

2 minutes ago, blckp said:

the north has army 2-3k soldiers so ? even daario has that

Many families didn't participate in the Battle of the Bastards like Cerwyns, Manderlys and Glovers. Ramsay had 6k, Jon had around 3k (2k were wildlings). So, it is not 2-3k, not even by a long shot.

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5 minutes ago, DragonDreamer said:

They can certainly destroy the millions of wights, that's a big fucking deal.  Additionally giant army of fighting men is also extremely helpful  

Actually it isn't. As Missy in DrWho; 

Quote

Do you know the key strategic weakness of the human race? The dead outnumber the living.

No matter how many wights someone can obliterate there will be always more dead to use.

4 minutes ago, blckp said:

is he king? lol what since when this bastard become king of westeros?

Are you sure that he is a bastard? Are you sure that a female Targ can come before a male Targ? Are you sure that a female Targ in in any way in the line for the Targ Throne?

Edited by Jon's Queen Consort

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6 minutes ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

What she gains is for her not to become an usurper who will take her nephew's rightful Throne.

Just to tease you a bit... Isn't that said nephew a current Usurper of the Northern Throne? :)

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Petyr Baelish won't backstab Sansa (probably).

And he definately won't immediately abandon him.

 

Also, the Vale Knights were chanting "The King in the North" So:

If we assume that Jon has the North and the Vale, he has probably 10k troops at least, 15k at most. He might be able to get 20k if he takes more from the Vale.

 

He may also be able to take the Riverlands and restore the Tully's before Dany meets up with him

 

This means Jon might have a considerable Kingdom by the time they are negotiating. Really, if Dany wants a political marriage, Jon is the #1 choice.

 

 

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The show likes to keep it simple, so it definitely looks this way. I think it would be boring though. She seems to like bad boy types (dangerous men), and he is so good. It looks good politically, but not emotionally. 

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1 minute ago, Risto said:

Just to tease you a bit... Isn't that said nephew a current Usurper of the Northern Throne? :)

People voted for him. :P Even Sandra voted for him. :P

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16 hours ago, Risto said:

Because there is literally no one else.

 

Many families didn't participate in the Battle of the Bastards like Cerwyns, Manderlys and Glovers. Ramsay had 6k, Jon had around 3k (2k were wildlings). So, it is not 2-3k, not even by a long shot.

Ramsay : Umbers and Karstals has more soldiers than all northern houses combined

Jon snow : all north houses combined equal to Umbers and Karstarks

 

boltons had 5k army and with umber and karstark aid they had 6k , umbers and karstaks probably left few hundred soldier at home so all north solider is 2-3k

Edited by blckp

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2 minutes ago, blckp said:

the north has army 2-3k soldiers so ? even daario has that

I would bet they have a lot more than that.  Again we can't know for sure at this point, but the Manderly's probably had one of the biggest forces in the North, being White Harbor I believe is the biggest city/town/port in the North.  So without knowing how many they lost in the War of the 5 Kings, they would probably have a sizable force still. From the little they gave us in the show, it sounds like most of Ramsay's army was Bolton/Karstark/Umber men, doesn't seem like anyone else was sending men to Ramsay to fight against Jon.  So, those other houses would still have their men they had left after TWo5K.  

Again, nothing to compare to Dany's army at all. But it's not just Jon, Tormund, and a few other dudes standing around either.

Plus as I said, for Dany it could be more of not having to set the entire north on fire from the sky, because that is the only way she will most likely take it outside of some kind of agreement with Jon.

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6 minutes ago, Risto said:

Many families didn't participate in the Battle of the Bastards like Cerwyns, Manderlys and Glovers. Ramsay had 6k, Jon had around 3k (2k were wildlings). So, it is not 2-3k, not even by a long shot.

Plus the Vale troops.  And eventually he will have the Riverlands as well imo, now that the Frey's are dead (thank's Arya).  He's basically King of half the realm now.  

EDIT:  What Daniel Tarly said.  He beat me to it :P

Edited by Ser Wun Wun

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