Adam Shanks

Queen of Dragons Marrying King in the North

361 posts in this topic

3 minutes ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

People voted for him. :P Even Sandra voted for him. :P

People, you mean lords? Dany also has that vote... On larger scale - 4 regions are behind her.

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Just now, Risto said:

People, you mean lords? Dany also has that vote... On larger scale - 4 regions are behind her.

She has the votes of people who live in Essos and she was crowdsurfing. She hasn't meat with Olenna or NotEllaria. :P

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16 hours ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

Actually it isn't. As Missy in DrWho; 

No matter how many wights someone can obliterate there will be always more dead to use.

Are you sure that he is a bastard? Are you sure that a female Targ can come before a male Targ? Are you sure that a female Targ in in any way in the line for the Targ Throne?

he is bastard cause multiply wives was forbidden only 2 targaryen had multiply wives 300 years ago which caused rebellion of faith religion after that 0 

if you talking about claim then

it goes Aerys ->Viserys->Daenerys ,

even if Rhaegar and Lyanna was married and approved by septon , Rhager is prince not king, Viserys was named heir after Rhaegars death  passing over Aegon, which Dany's claim comes from, only way Jon snow can have better claim than Dany is if he was trueborn and R+L was approved by septon and King Aerys naming Vesrys as heir after Rhaegars death is not true then Jon Snow will have better claim than Daenerys with rule son of first son comes before second son even then its still complicated and great consul needs to determine

Quote

After Rhaegar died on the Trident, Prince Viserys Targaryen was apparently named heir to the throne by King Aerys II Targaryen, while Aegon was still alive. After Aerys's death Viserys was declared king on Dragonstone. Viserys would later name his sister Daenerys his heir, by declaring her to be the Princess of Dragonstone

King Aerys named Viserys and made his line as king line and passed over Rhaegar line cause Rhaegar trying to  rebellion

King Aerys named Viserys as heir because he found out Rhaegar was trying to rebel

Quote

When Lord Tywin resigned his position as Hand of the King and left court, the new focus of King Aerys's mistrust and paranoia was his own son and heir Prince Rhaegar. At court, there was growing tension between the factions loyal to the king and those loyal to Prince Rhaegar. Grandmaester Pycelle had dispatched a letter to the Citadel, writing that tensions and division at court strongly resembled those before the Dance of the Dragons. Pycelle was fearful of a civil war between those loyal to the king and those who supported Rhaegar would break out unless some accord could be reached that would satisfy both factions

Quote

In either 280 AC or 281 AC, Lord Whent announced a tourney would be held at Harrenhal to rival any previous tournament. It is believed by some that the tournament was secretly arranged and financed by Prince Rhaegar, as a pretext, so Rhaegar could meet up with the Great Lords of the realm to discuss arranging a Great Council and the removal of his father.

 

 

Jon snow has better claim only in fanficion and fan wish list, they thinks fan wish = canon lol

Edited by blckp

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I'm still hoping for Dany dying but if she has to marry anyone it should be Jon

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3 minutes ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

She has the votes of people who live in Essos and she was crowdsurfing. She hasn't meat with Olenna or NotEllaria. :P

The Reach and Dorne ships were already in her armada. I guess they are all together.

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2 minutes ago, blckp said:

he is bastard cause multiply wives was forbidden only 2 targaryen had multiply wives 300 years ago which caused rebellion of faith religion after that 0 

Where was that mentioned?

2 minutes ago, blckp said:

Viserys was named heir after Rhaegars death 

How do you know that? No one in Westeros seems to know that.

3 minutes ago, blckp said:

was approved by septon

who said that?

 

The only thing that we have in the books about the Targaryen line of succession tell that a woman cannot take the Throne.

1 minute ago, Risto said:

The Reach and Dorne ships were already in her armada. I guess they are all together.

Being there and actually follow her is two different things. Like how the Vale army was with Jon but they later chose to support Jon.

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At the end of the day, a claim is precisely that. A claim. It is the ability to enforce the claim which truly counts. 

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16 hours ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

Where was that mentioned?

How do you know that? No one in Westeros seems to know that.

who said that?

 

The only thing that we have in the books about the Targaryen line of succession tell that a woman cannot take the Throne.

Being there and actually follow her is two different things. Like how the Vale army was with Jon but they later chose to support Jon.

Quote

 

In Westeros, for both the highborn and lowborn, marriage is chiefly between two people, a man and a woman. The Faith of the Seven does not permit polygamy and considers it a sin

 

which resulted bloody war

Quote

Aegon I's younger son Maegor is the last Targaryen currently known to have had multiple wives. He had been married to Lady Ceryse Hightower in 25 AC. In 39 AC, he took Alys Harroway to wife in a Valyrian ceremony led by his mother, Dowager Queen Visenya Targaryen, after they could not find a septon to perform the marriage. This marriage upset the Faith,

Aegon and Maegor had multiply wives no else

 

as for woman the fraction that won Dance of dragons decided but it was basically abandoned and was declined even Robert case it was decline and he took throne with mother side

 

it only exist in jon snow fans fan wish list, realisticly he will never have better claim than Daenerys

Edited by blckp

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I see the eventual meeting between Jon and Dany being very cold. Both literally and figuratively. Jon will be all "WTF? You just show up here with dragons and claim to be Queen? Go ahead, burn me. Or you can stand right here next to me and help me take on these cold guys." 

Jon in the book will be contrasted with Torrhen Stark, who bent the knee. Jon spent time with the wildlings. He won't bend the knee. 

In terms of political alliances, Dany has the following options, just going off the show: 

(1) Dickon Tarly - likely the new lords of the Reach. 

(2) Sweetrobin - "I'm not dead yet". If she is willing to look past the Arryn's role in Robert's Rebellion. Which Tyrion would advise her to do so. 

(3) Jaime Lannister. He does like blonds. 

(4) Tyrion Lannister. Let's face it. Jaime is dead. 

(5) Bran Stark - if he ever shows up and wargs the hell out of her dragons. Nice!

(6) Edmure Tully. Assuming Roslin Frey finds her way into some sort of pie. Not likely, but could be. 

(7) Littlefinger. She's been down this road before. Unlikely. 

(8) Gendry Baratheon - I am thinking Arya and Mel find Gendry - bring him back to the North to reestablish House Baratheon. If she is going to win the smallfolk, this would be a good move. 

(9) Jon Snow - Nope. But I guess it's possible. 

(10) The Hound. Deathly afraid of fire. Could bring her the BwB and if she is truly going to win the smallfolk, he might be the guy to do it, eventually. 

(11) Jorah Mormont - if he figures out the cure for greyscale and comes back to Westeros to fight the WW, he might get pardoned. 

Only Tarly and Jaime really seems to make sense from a military perspective, and only one of those guys didn't kill her father. But this is the show and there is a lot more drama to the match than sensibility. 

I am rooting for Bran. Warg a dragon and woo a queen!

 

 

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1 hour ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

Could happen in the Bookseries; No

 

It's something that happened in the original outline of the ASOIAF, when it was a trilogy, with Tyrion as Hand of the King, so I don't know why it couldn't happen still. 

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No! Jon Snow should marry Lady Mormont when she has grown up a bit. Both because she was the only House leader loyal to him and because she's one tough cookie.

If he doesn't just become the commander of the Night's Watch again. The next commander will be number 1,000. As soon as I read that Commander Mormont was number 997 in the first novel I knew the story would chew through commanders until an epic number one thousandth leader.

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Conquering the North during Winter might be more difficult than everyone realizes.  Dany's Dothraki army is not going to fare well during winter and it has been established that the North is easily defended at Moat Caitlin.  Yes, Dany has dragons but she needs men and allies to control things as well.  Her time in Meereen established that she cannot control things with her dragons alone.  A marriage alliance between Jon and Dany and some sort of joint ruling agreement might come into play.

We also do not know how Jon's parentage will play out.  While it didn't happen this season like I thought, I still suspect that LF ferrets something out about Jon and uses it to either manipulate Sansa or Cersei.  Jon might end up being forced to take the Throne to save the North or fight the larger war against the dead.  I also think that the Throne itself ends up being melted down for weapons against the WWs.

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10 minutes ago, blckp said:

which resulted bloody war

For the Faith incest is also a sin and the result is an abomination. 

10 minutes ago, blckp said:

Aegon and Maegor had multiply wives no else

What GRRM said; 

Quote

There might have been a few later instances as well. I'd need to look that up... (or make that up, as the case might be). http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/Targaryen_Polygamy

 

10 minutes ago, blckp said:

 even Robert case it was decline and he took throne with mother side

Utter bs. Robert took the Throne because he killed Rhaegar.

10 minutes ago, blckp said:

it only exist in jon snow fans fan wish list, realisticly he will never have better claim than Daenerys

It exists in TWOIAF no matter if you liked it or not is the only thing that we have from the books.

Quote

In the eyes of many, the Great Council of 101 AC thereby established an iron precedent on matters of succession: regardless of seniority, the Iron Throne of Westeros could not pass to a woman, nor through a woman to her male descendents.

 

Edited by Jon's Queen Consort

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Jon & Dany are a done deal. Ice & Fire.. let's skip straight to the bedding!!

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Just now, Rory Snow said:

Jon & Dany are a done deal. Ice & Fire.. let's skip straight to the bedding!!

Jon is also Ice and Fire by himself.

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Still think a Jon vs Daenerys conflict would be much more interesting. I'd like to see Daenerys feel threatened (but unjustly) by the existence of another Targaryen with a possible claim. Everyone vs White Walkers seem kinda dull. North/Vale/Riverlands vs the South sounds more interesting, with the WW's too involved.

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No please. Sign me up for a Dance of the Dragons between the two of them.

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45 minutes ago, jrod said:

But my biggest question is yes Dany needs to marry for alliance reasons, but who would marry her knowing they wouldn't really be "king", but husband to the queen?  Dany isn't going through all of this to sit on the sidelines while her new husband rules Westeros.

I think this is another reason why marriage to Jon would work, as Jon likely will not aspire to the throne himself, even after he learns of his Targaryen lineage. He dreamed of being Lord of Winterfell when he was a boy, but when given the opportunity by Stannis, he turned it down, and in the finale, he told Sansa that she's the Lady of Winterfell, which means he still isn't interested in claiming the title of Lord. Despite having walked away from the Night's Watch, he's obviously still focused on fighting the coming war against the White Walkers, not on titles or power. I could see him agreeing to be Dany's king for the political advantages (and, of course, to get her dragons fighting the White Walkers), but to leave most of the actual ruling up to her. If anything, he could hold responsibility for the North, sort of retaining the King in the North title but at the same time not having the North be a fully independent kingdom.

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32 minutes ago, blckp said:

 

 

he is bastard cause multiply wives was forbidden only 2 targaryen had multiply wives 300 years ago which caused rebellion of faith religion after that 0 

if you talking about claim then

it goes Aerys ->Viserys->Daenerys ,

even if Rhaegar and Lyanna was married and approved by septon , Rhager is prince not king, Viserys was named heir after Rhaegars death  passing over Aegon, which Dany's claim comes from, only way Jon snow can have better claim than Dany is if he was trueborn and R+L was approved by septon and King Aerys naming Vesrys as heir after Rhaegars death is not true then Jon Snow will have better claim than Daenerys with rule son of first son comes before second son even then its still complicated and great consul needs to determine

King Aerys named Viserys and made his line as king line and passed over Rhaegar line cause Rhaegar trying to  rebellion

King Aerys named Viserys as heir because he found out Rhaegar was trying to rebel

 

 

Jon snow has better claim only in fanficion and fan wish list, they thinks fan wish = canon lol

I'm trying to find the exact quote, but I believe for royal succession it became something like "The son of the second comes before the daughter of the first".  Struggling to find it.

Edit: Was thinking of the wrong quote, it was "The sons of the first son come before the second son". 

 But IF they could prove Jon was Rhaegar's son (which I have been very dubious about how they could do that where it couldn't easily be dismissed) and on top of that prove that he was legitimate (somehow Raeghar married Lyanna, again about impossible to do) then technically I believe Jon would be the "rightful" heir to the Iron Throne.

Robert's claim to the throne was just amongst the Vale/North/Stormlands.  He had Targ blood, so of the 3 houses rising in rebellion he had the best "claim", which was probably little more than to placate some people who thought someone with royal blood should rule.  It had absolutely nothing to do with true succession of the throne.  He won it by conquest, not legal inheritance.

Edited by jrod

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6 minutes ago, ErasmusF said:

I see the eventual meeting between Jon and Dany being very cold. Both literally and figuratively. Jon will be all "WTF? You just show up here with dragons and claim to be Queen? Go ahead, burn me. Or you can stand right here next to me and help me take on these cold guys." 

Jon in the book will be contrasted with Torrhen Stark, who bent the knee. Jon spent time with the wildlings. He won't bend the knee. 

In terms of political alliances, Dany has the following options, just going off the show: 

(1) Dickon Tarly - likely the new lords of the Reach. 

(2) Sweetrobin - "I'm not dead yet". If she is willing to look past the Arryn's role in Robert's Rebellion. Which Tyrion would advise her to do so. 

(3) Jaime Lannister. He does like blonds. 

(4) Tyrion Lannister. Let's face it. Jaime is dead. 

(5) Bran Stark - if he ever shows up and wargs the hell out of her dragons. Nice!

(6) Edmure Tully. Assuming Roslin Frey finds her way into some sort of pie. Not likely, but could be. 

(7) Littlefinger. She's been down this road before. Unlikely. 

(8) Gendry Baratheon - I am thinking Arya and Mel find Gendry - bring him back to the North to reestablish House Baratheon. If she is going to win the smallfolk, this would be a good move. 

(9) Jon Snow - Nope. But I guess it's possible. 

(10) The Hound. Deathly afraid of fire. Could bring her the BwB and if she is truly going to win the smallfolk, he might be the guy to do it, eventually. 

(11) Jorah Mormont - if he figures out the cure for greyscale and comes back to Westeros to fight the WW, he might get pardoned. 

Only Tarly and Jaime really seems to make sense from a military perspective, and only one of those guys didn't kill her father. But this is the show and there is a lot more drama to the match than sensibility. 

I am rooting for Bran. Warg a dragon and woo a queen!

 

 

1) She already has the Reach

2) Politically, one of the strongest candidates. At a personal level, an entitled brat. But she's thinking politically.

3) And none is blonder than Dany. He personally killed her father, though. And Dany would be unseating his sister. That's not an easy thing to overlook, even politically.

4) Already an ally

5) Crippled

6) If Arya rescued him. And he's married already (unless Arya also cooked his wife). May not have that many men, nor prestige at this point.

7) Too lowborn. Tyrion would advise her to burn him

8) Why would the smallfolk care for some unkown Baratheon bastard? He brings nothing to the table, except arms strengthened by years of rowing

9) Da King in the North. A bastard. But unlike Jaime, he didn't kill her father. And, unlike Robin, he is a renown and respected commander.

10) Just a footsoldier. A good one, but brings nothing to the table in the form of alliances.

11) Same as the Hound.

 

So I think it's between Jaime, Robin and Jon. If Jon can influence the Knights of the Vale, Jon is the strongest match.

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