Adam Shanks

Queen of Dragons Marrying King in the North

361 posts in this topic

6 minutes ago, jrod said:

Robert's claim to the throne was just amongst the Vale/North/Stormlands.  He had Targ blood, so of the 3 houses rising in rebellion he had the best "claim", which was probably little more than to placate some people who thought someone with royal blood should rule.  It had absolutely nothing to do with true succession of the throne.  He won it by conquest, not legal inheritance.

True. As LF said; 

Quote

A pretty dress for an ugly truth: it was war and he could swing a hammer harder than the other options.

 

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9 minutes ago, Jairion Lannister said:

Still think a Jon vs Daenerys conflict would be much more interesting. I'd like to see Daenerys feel threatened (but unjustly) by the existence of another Targaryen with a possible claim. Everyone vs White Walkers seem kinda dull. North/Vale/Riverlands vs the South sounds more interesting, with the WW's too involved.

This is likely just what will happen. Perhaps a 3 way battle with Littlefinger manipulating for his own interests. But just in time, peace will be struck and they'll band together to fight the White Walkers. The good guys will prevail, Littlefinger will somehow squeak thru and survive while many heroes die. In the aftermath Baelish finds himself on the Iron Throne... fade to black...

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Probably happening:

1.  Dany marries Robin who is probably the most powerful lord in Westeros now.  They unite South against Cersei Lannister.  Plus, Sansa and Jon will not care as their story is about the White Walkers, neither is after the Iron Throne.  Plus, Dany would walk all over Jon and since he is the "hero" he would look weak married to Dany.  Both probably dead at end.  Dany gets to be tragic hero.

2.  Jon is classic hero and will be rewarded with GRRM's "best girl"--- Arya.  Arya gets the "best" boy=Jon.  Ned---you will marry a king.  Sansa ends up with Tyrion.  Ned---find you someone gentle and kind, and the poetic justice of having to eat crow when she said Arya would kneel before her.  Plus, shows character  growth, looking beyond appearance, Tyrion's prize, and Sansa grateful for what she has.

3.  Iron throne gone at end or some version of parliament, round table.

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20 minutes ago, Theon Killjoy said:

It's something that happened in the original outline of the ASOIAF, when it was a trilogy, with Tyrion as Hand of the King, so I don't know why it couldn't happen still. 

I think the original outline had Jon marrying Arya (or maybe Sansa, but I think Arya), not Dany.

 

40 minutes ago, blckp said:

Jon snow has better claim only in fanficion and fan wish list, they thinks fan wish = canon lol

That's really not any different than Sansa's claim for leading the North being better than Jon's. As far as the show goes, fan wish=ratings. So while in the books it's completely illogical, it wouldn't surprise me in the least on the show. 

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3 minutes ago, gotviewer said:

Probably happening:

1.  Dany marries Robin who is probably the most powerful lord in Westeros now.  They unite South against Cersei Lannister.  Plus, Sansa and Jon will not care as their story is about the White Walkers, neither is after the Iron Throne.  Plus, Dany would walk all over Jon and since he is the "hero" he would look weak married to Dany.  Both probably dead at end.  Dany gets to be tragic hero.

2.  Jon is classic hero and will be rewarded with GRRM's "best girl"--- Arya.  Arya gets the "best" boy=Jon.  Ned---you will marry a king.  Sansa ends up with Tyrion.  Ned---find you someone gentle and kind, and the poetic justice of having to eat crow when she said Arya would kneel before her.  Plus, shows character  growth, looking beyond appearance, Tyrion's prize, and Sansa grateful for what she has.

3.  Iron throne gone at end or some version of parliament, round table.

too much happiness in your endings

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7 minutes ago, gotviewer said:

Robin who is probably the most powerful lord in Westeros now

How? What power he has?

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The way I see it, the Kingdoms of Westeros are:

The North

The Vale

The Riverlands

The Iron Islands

The Westerlands

The Reach

The Crownlands

The Stormlands

Dorne

 

For 9 kingdoms total. Jon will probably control:

The North (DAKINGINDANORFF!)

The Vale (Through Sansa marrying Robin)

The Riverlands (Arya, Sansa, and Bran are Tully children)

 

Dany gets:

The Westerlands (through Tyrion)

The Reach (Tyrells teaming up for revenge)

The Iron Islands (if she helps Theon and Yara defeat Euron)

Dorne (uh.... Grrl Pwr, I guess?)

And finally, the Crownlands when they all storm King's Landing to take out Cersei The Bitch (short may she reign)

 

So if Jon and Dany were to marry, it would pretty much unite the 7 (actually 9) Kingdoms.

 

Two questions I have are:

1. What is Euron going to do now? Show up in Mereen with his ships on to have Daario say "Sorry, you missed her! LOL!" What's he going to do when he finds out that Theon and Yara have already won over his Dragon Queen? Forge his own alliance to fight her?

2. Who controls the Stormlands?

 

 

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23 minutes ago, Pies are coming said:

1) She already has the Reach

2) Politically, one of the strongest candidates. At a personal level, an entitled brat. But she's thinking politically.

3) And none is blonder than Dany. He personally killed her father, though. And Dany would be unseating his sister. That's not an easy thing to overlook, even politically.

4) Already an ally

5) Crippled

6) If Arya rescued him. And he's married already (unless Arya also cooked his wife). May not have that many men, nor prestige at this point.

7) Too lowborn. Tyrion would advise her to burn him

8) Why would the smallfolk care for some unkown Baratheon bastard? He brings nothing to the table, except arms strengthened by years of rowing

9) Da King in the North. A bastard. But unlike Jaime, he didn't kill her father. And, unlike Robin, he is a renown and respected commander.

10) Just a footsoldier. A good one, but brings nothing to the table in the form of alliances.

11) Same as the Hound.

 

So I think it's between Jaime, Robin and Jon. If Jon can influence the Knights of the Vale, Jon is the strongest match.

She has House Tyrell. Not the Reach. As I have stated elsewhere, the Tyrells are pretty much being set up to take over the Reach, probably without the Tyrell's permission. House Tyrell has no future. House Tarly might just go to Cersei and say "hey, how about a high five for loyal service?" That's fairly similar to how the Tyrells were named LPs of the Reach after the Gardener line went extinct. 

Randyll Tarly has been pretty close to Tywin Lannister FWIW. Like minded dudes. 

I think there's a lot more to House Tarly than we realize. GRRM didn't put one of Westeros's great commanders as a bannerman to a line he was going to extinguish, and then make their firstborn friends with a main protagonist for nothing. 

Oh, yeah they also have a Valaryian steel sword and have run into Brienne a couple of times. But other than that, they probably aren't important. 

Edited by ErasmusF

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1 minute ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

How? What power he has?

He is about the only Lord/region that stayed out of the wars so far.  So their food supply would be the best most likely, they have the best fighting force I would guess, since their best fighters haven't been lost in battle yet.  Also haven't spent money fighting in the wars either.

So the Vale is probably one of the best off regions at this point.  So the Vale would be a very good ally to have right now, Dorne obviously would be another that hasn't been hit with the affects of war yet.

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1 minute ago, jrod said:

He is about the only Lord/region that stayed out of the wars so far.  So their food supply would be the best most likely, they have the best fighting force I would guess, since their best fighters haven't been lost in battle yet.  Also haven't spent money fighting in the wars either.

So the Vale is probably one of the best off regions at this point.  So the Vale would be a very good ally to have right now, Dorne obviously would be another that hasn't been hit with the affects of war yet.

So you mean in the books.

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There won't be any marriage. Dany will die. In fact, I think most of them will die, Jon included.

White walkers will ravage feudalism and leave little to nothing. Transition to democracy. Moral of the story - don't be so obsessed with power and status.

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16 hours ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

For the Faith incest is also a sin and the result is an abomination. 

What GRRM said; 

 

Utter bs. Robert took the Throne because he killed Rhaegar.

It exists in TWOIAF no matter if you liked it or not is the only thing that we have from the books.

 

and? it was 300 years ago and its still forbidden

Robert took throne with conquest but he fucked up and claimed it with his mothers side,

not matter how much bs you speculates there is no way realistically Jon snow will have better claim

16 hours ago, jrod said:

I'm trying to find the exact quote, but I believe for royal succession it became something like "The son of the second comes before the daughter of the first".  Struggling to find it.

Edit: Was thinking of the wrong quote, it was "The sons of the first son come before the second son". 

 But IF they could prove Jon was Rhaegar's son (which I have been very dubious about how they could do that where it couldn't easily be dismissed) and on top of that prove that he was legitimate (somehow Raeghar married Lyanna, again about impossible to do) then technically I believe Jon would be the "rightful" heir to the Iron Throne.

Robert's claim to the throne was just amongst the Vale/North/Stormlands.  He had Targ blood, so of the 3 houses rising in rebellion he had the best "claim", which was probably little more than to placate some people who thought someone with royal blood should rule.  It had absolutely nothing to do with true succession of the throne.  He won it by conquest, not legal inheritance.

not in this case cause Viserys was named heir passing over Rhaegars line, and later he was crowned as king at dragonstone and named Daenerys as his heir

Edited by blckp

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1 minute ago, blckp said:

and? it was 300 years ago and its still forbidden

Can you prove it?

1 minute ago, blckp said:

claimed it with his mothers side,

Can you show me where was it said?

1 minute ago, blckp said:

not matter how much bs you speculates it you have 0 fact ,

I have a quote from TWOIAF what do you have?

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15 minutes ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

So you mean in the books.

Show too isn't it?  Lysa was adamant about "Knight of the Vale will stay in the Vale".  So outside of riding north to surprise attack the Boltons, in which they made it look like there were few if any casualties for the Vale, am I forgetting something with them?  Which is completely possible.

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2 minutes ago, jrod said:

Show too isn't it?  Lysa was adamant about "Knight of the Vale will stay in the Vale".  So outside of riding north to surprise attack the Boltons, in which they made it look like there were few if any casualties for the Vale, am I forgetting something with them?  Which is completely possible.

Not really. His knights are with Jon.

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16 hours ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

Can you prove it?

Can you show me where was it said?

I have a quote from TWOIAF what do you have?

prove what? prove this?

Quote

In Westeros, for both the highborn and lowborn, marriage is chiefly between two people, a man and a woman. The Faith of the Seven does not permit polygamy and considers it a sin

Quote

Aegon I's younger son Maegor is the last Targaryen currently known to have had multiple wives. He had been married to Lady Ceryse Hightower in 25 AC. In 39 AC, he took Alys Harroway to wife in a Valyrian ceremony led by his mother, Dowager Queen Visenya Targaryen, after they could not find a septon to perform the marriage. This marriage upset the Faith,

 

Robert it was through her grandmother ->mother line - he took with succession line

 

Quote

As Rhaegar's second cousin, excluding Prince Viserys and Princess Daenerys, Robert was next in line for the Iron Throne via grandmother Rhaelle Targaryen, daughter of King Aegon V. This was a much stronger claim to the throne than the Arryns, Tullys or Starks.

 

Edited by blckp

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21 minutes ago, blckp said:

snip

You seriously quote wikia to support your assertions? Something that is not canon and anyone can write whatever he wants? Especially since I quote the author himself and the books.

Edited by Jon's Queen Consort

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7 minutes ago, blckp said:

and? it was 300 years ago and its still forbidden

Robert took throne with conquest but he fucked up and claimed it with his mothers side,

not matter how much bs you speculates there is no way realistically Jon snow will have better claim

not in this case cause Viserys was named heir passing over Rhaegars line, and later he was crowned as king at dragonstone and named Daenerys as his heir

By legal reasons I think Rhaegar's son would still have the better CLAIM to the throne.  But CLAIM means little at this point, it will be settled by war or marriage most likely.  They aren't going to call another Great Council to determine if Dany or Jon should rule.  They will either come to an agreement between them, or there will be a war.

And I have questioned many times that it is about impossible to prove to non-Stark supporters that Jon would be a Targ anyway, unless Varys who is on Dany's side had some kind of proof.  Only way we as viewers know is Bran's visions, which won't mean anything to people in the south.  If LF does know something or someone who knows, he is on the Stark's side now so he could easily be dismissed as lying to help his new friends.  I can't think of a way that Jon could legit show he is Raehgar's son, and IF he was legitimate.  So it will be kind of moot anyway.

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3 minutes ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

Not really. His knights are with Jon.

Well yeah, sorry misunderstood.  Technically his knights are in the North.  But The Vale is still at pretty much full strength.  So IF Dany could convince Robyn to side with her, and IF his knights followed him instead of being manipulated by Baelish, then he would have probably one of the stronger forces left.

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16 hours ago, jrod said:

By legal reasons I think Rhaegar's son would still have the better CLAIM to the throne.  But CLAIM means little at this point, it will be settled by war or marriage most likely.  They aren't going to call another Great Council to determine if Dany or Jon should rule.  They will either come to an agreement between them, or there will be a war.

And I have questioned many times that it is about impossible to prove to non-Stark supporters that Jon would be a Targ anyway, unless Varys who is on Dany's side had some kind of proof.  Only way we as viewers know is Bran's visions, which won't mean anything to people in the south.  If LF does know something or someone who knows, he is on the Stark's side now so he could easily be dismissed as lying to help his new friends.  I can't think of a way that Jon could legit show he is Raehgar's son, and IF he was legitimate.  So it will be kind of moot anyway.

nope legally even if aegon was alive it would be Viserys ->Daenerys, Viserys line is succession line due to king Aerys passing over Rhaegars line and naming him

 

as for Jon snow to have better claim is pretty much impossible

Edited by blckp

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