What is Littlefinger's next move?

[CrypticWeirwood]

On June 27, 2016 at 8:08 PM, ServantOnIce said:

I watched them and you are correct.  Jaime is now scared of Cersei, Arya has gone mad, Jon and Sansa will have major tension. 

Sansa might reconsider once Bran gets there and explains about FakeJon to her.

[Stark side of the MoonDoor]

Yea agreed, last season D&D also told us that Jon Snow was dead and wouldn’t be coming back. That was obviously a lie i.e. a false trail. Is there someone in their service whom you trust completely? Yes. The wiser answer was no, my Lord. Distrusting me was the wisest thing you’ve done since you climbed off your horse.

Of course D&D aren’t gonna give us major hints as to what will actually happen next season, outside of show material. That would ruin the whole point of the show, which many online articles already do enough of. Remember, true theatre in a drama is the element of suspense and surprise.

In fact, what they say, you’d be better off trusting the opposite.  Sansa will do what a former rape victim will do in that she will only trust the people who she knows she can absolutely trust.  It's ingrained into her survival now. Jon is one of what 3/4 people in all of the 7 kingdoms who fulfills this role, and she’s also related to him. Her family pain is his family pain. The most likely outcome is your gut instinct, at this stage in the game.  Sansa will stay loyal to Jon, and maybe even soon to Bran or Arya (I’m hoping so hard), which will also strengthen the bond between her and Jon.

Littlefinger will try to take action to make his fantasy a reality.  And clearly Jon is in the way.  Thats what I got out of the interaction between Sansa and LF.  Nothing more.  Perhaps, LF surprises everyone and stays loyal to house Stark, we all know too well Cersei ain’t gonna marry again, unless it's Jaime.

But just cuz Cersei won’t marry LF doesn’t mean LF won’t betray house Stark for power granted by Cersei.  The Vale fighting with the Lannisters would also be fitting in terms of Dany vs. Cersei, and all parties included. Perhaps LF first tries to blackmail Jon, or turn Sansa away from Jon, but fails and gets a Vale cutthroat to murk Jon.  Maybe even in the same room Bran was almost killed, with the same dagger. You’re not supposed to be here, or wait you are, slice, stab.  Jon’s like oh no not again?  Tormund, Sansa, Brienne, and Davos (wouldn’t that be crazy) then have to go seek out the Red Woman, who comes back in time to resurrect Jon Snow once again. This would be fitting of her character arc.  The Red Woman is to Jon what Jorah is to Dany.  Banished from service, only to come back into his/her service by saving their life.  

Or maybe I’m wrong about the RW and LF and he betrays Jon and Sansa, but gets caught and killed (he rarely ever gets caught though thats why I don’t think it will happen), or he weasels his way out of the North and declares for Dany or Cersei without betraying the Starks. Regardless there will obviously be some more twists and turns along the way, and one would bet on LF being at the crux of this twist.  One would also bet on Jon Snow being alive for the final battle against the Night king.  Sansa staying loyal to Jon is a much more trustworthy outcome than trying to predict what LF will do.  

Besides, what would Sansa do to Jon?  Kill him with support from LF and possibly lose all the support from the remaining wildlings and northern houses?  Thats just absurd, and the fact that people on this site are giving it any credence is flat out asinine.  Then when she reunites with Arya, says "oh yea by the way I killed Jon, the sword he had made for you is a piece of shit anyways, my needle is better, and I still think Joffrey is hot (wildfire hot)."  Arya would then kill Sansa thinking she was a baseless faceless man.  

[NutBurz]

There´s only "not enough time" for a "civil war" in the north if you expect that the story is going towards a big happy final battle where "good" wins through the sacrifice of its heroes like every single other story ever. If the story is going towards a semi-extinction event, a civil war is a perfectly good explanation as to why everyone died instead of organizing themselves against the "big bad".

[Rory Snow]

Can't see Baelish siding with Cersei, not once he hears of Dany, because Cersei can't win. Can't see Baelish siding with Dany because she doesn't need him and Tyrion and Varys know Pinkie too well and of course would never trust him with anything. It would seem he's stuck with the Starks, which means he'll likely move to get rid of Jon.

[tormond]

7 minutes ago, Rory Snow said:

Can't see Baelish siding with Cersei, not once he hears of Dany, because Cersei can't win. Can't see Baelish siding with Dany because she doesn't need him and Tyrion and Varys know Pinkie too well and of course would never trust him with anything. It would seem he's stuck with the Starks, which means he'll likely move to get rid of Jon.

i agree. I think littlefinger should try to secure his power in the vale while at the same time try to take jon out. Yes littlefinger has sweetrobin under his spell for now but if something were to happen to Robin, wouldnt he be the successor?. He would provably have to get rid of Royce too who tried to give him problem before.

[ViserionsFire]

5 hours ago, Stark side of the MoonDoor said:

Tormund, Sansa, Brienne, and Davos (wouldn’t that be crazy) then have to go seek out the Red Woman, who comes back in time to resurrect Jon Snow once again. This would be fitting of her character arc.  The Red Woman is to Jon what Jorah is to Dany.  Banished from service, only to come back into his/her service by saving their life.  

 

Welcome to the forum.  

The point you made made is quite interesting to me. The broad point that you make that Mel has a significant roll in Jon's arc is where I agree.  But rather than saving Jon's life again, I think Mel connects up with Dany and informs her of the threat from beyond the wall and convinces her to head north.

[Back in Black-Snow]

11 minutes ago, ViserionsFire said:

Welcome to the forum.  

The point you made made is quite interesting to me. The broad point that you make that Mel has a significant roll in Jon's arc is where I agree.  But rather than saving Jon's life again, I think Mel connects up with Dany and informs her of the threat from beyond the wall and convinces her to head north.

I agree with this. I don't think Jon will die again, but I believe Dany and possibly Arya will. Those two deaths will be the bitter sweet ending GRRM has said we will get. Dany's role will not be to take the Iron Throne, but to die helping to save the Realm while TRYING to obtain the Throne. Arya will die fighting, with Needle in her hands. Jon will become King of Westeros and will have the Iron Throne destroyed. Sansa, if she does not die, will rule Winterfell while Bran sits by the weirwood tree in the Godswood.

[HeroesAndVillains]

Well I don't see how he can return to King's Landing. Littlefinger said House Arryn have publicly declared for House Stark so turning up at Cersei's doorstep would only earn him his head on a pike. Not only that by Cersei is crazy and really on the losing side at the moment, that would be a crappy move.

His best bet to achieve his dream if he cannot persuade Sansa is Daenerys. No one in her court except for Varys would show any wariness. Sansa/Jon may even approve if he promises to get Daenerys on side for the fight for the dawn. 

[xjlxking]

Littlefinger is poised to take on Jon. Without Jon he is more likely to manipulate Sansa.

 

with that said, most people who betrayed characters in bad manners like Bolton, Tywin, Walder Frey..etc seem to get killed the same way they betrayed those whom trusted them. Walder got his throat slit like Cat. Tywin a bolt, Bolton like Rob.

  I have a feeling that Jon or Sansa will eventually do something similar to Littlefinger

[Colonel Green]

On 7/10/2016 at 1:42 PM, tormond said:

Yes littlefinger has sweetrobin under his spell for now but if something were to happen to Robin, wouldnt he be the successor?

No.  He has no claim to the Vale.

30 minutes ago, HeroesAndVillains said:

His best bet to achieve his dream if he cannot persuade Sansa is Daenerys. No one in her court except for Varys would show any wariness. 

Tyrion (and probably Theon) would also be against him.

[Darksky]

Sansa is in a perfect spot to take down Littlefinger with just a few words to the right people. She rejects his advances, tells Jon only a fool would trust him (poor Ned) but leaves him alone, unpunished. She might be grateful for his help, but she should know it came with ulterior motives. She totally keeps him around in case she needs him again. She tries to use him and he still has a hold on her. They deserve each other. Hopefully both go down next season.

[xjlxking]

On 7/10/2016 at 0:42 PM, tormond said:

i agree. I think littlefinger should try to secure his power in the vale while at the same time try to take jon out. Yes littlefinger has sweetrobin under his spell for now but if something were to happen to Robin, wouldnt he be the successor?. He would provably have to get rid of Royce too who tried to give him problem before.

Remember, he failed to secure it...at least in the show.

If i recall correctly, he tried marry Lysa in front of a huge crowd but she could not wait and their marriage while "legal" was not really witnessed by all. All he has is sweetrobin but Sansa has her claws in him just as much. At the end of the day, LF motivated robin by using Sansa

[MoreOrLess]

On ‎28‎/‎06‎/‎2016 at 7:20 PM, Greg B said:

Sansa: We have to south, free my uncle and retake Riverrun.

Jon: We have to go North and fortify the Wall.

Sansa: South!

Jon: North!

Etc., etc. I don't expect conflict over who should rule.

This for me seems much more the setup, to me the show looks to shoot down the ideal of jealousy being an issue in the finale with both happy to offer lord/ladyship to the other and Sansa rejecting LF trying to play on this with the final look she gives him being more one of concern.

By far the easiest way to realistically introduce some tension between them for me would be for both of them to look to focus on different threats according to their experience thus far, Jon on the Walkers from the North and Sansa on the politics to the South.

I won't be at all supprised if what we actually see is Jon and Sansa spilt up early next season. Jon stays in the north and deals with the leftover politics, maybe meets Bran and finds out his background then potentially has to deal with the early stages of the Walkers attack. Sansa goes south either to the Vale to potentially marry Robin(this is the obvious alliance now) or to try and take back the Riverlands.

Looking at what LF might do next my guess is try and play Sansa's intensions to his own advantage. At this stage he can't easily manipulate her as she knows his nature but having there interests overlap could work, maybe LF looks to offer marriage to Dany in return to bringing the Vale forces south to take on Cersei? if Dany has suffered setbacks that could be a worthwhile deal.

 

[tormond]

1 hour ago, MoreOrLess said:

Looking at what LF might do next my guess is try and play Sansa's intensions to his own advantage. At this stage he can't easily manipulate her as she knows his nature but having there interests overlap could work, maybe LF looks to offer marriage to Dany in return to bringing the Vale forces south to take on Cersei? if Dany has suffered setbacks that could be a worthwhile deal.

Varys is with Dany, and you are suggesting that littlefinger might have a chance with her?

 

I think littlefinger will try to do his best work on Sansa. Everyone is against the mad queen, maybe euron will be the only one who gets on her side. I dont think littlefinger wants any part of the mad queen for now unless of course he's double crossed by Sansa in which he loses his influence on the vale. Sansa is a doubtful character. She might start something against Jon but she might also try to fool littlefinger and doublecross him. Even though littlefinger has masterfully created a chaotic westeros and is the main reason for basically everything, he has failed to consolidate his power. He has taken down 3 great houses and diminished the others and yet he still depends on somebody else's army. If only there was a way for him to get rid of sweetrobin and take over the vale.

[Asvpxkvng]

On June 27, 2016 at 11:54 AM, Noelle Snow said:

D&D always claim something in the post episode videos that is opposite of what played out on screen. What they think is conveyed onscreen is not what actually IS conveyed on screen. Sansa's look seemed more of concern about LF's next move than her going "crap he was right and I've just been ignored in favor of a bastard." That was a look of "this guy is capable of anything and my only surviving sibling just entered his crosshairs".

I'd like to believe this. I guess I was the only one who thought Sansa looked fine till she saw LF and then her change in demeanor was caused by her realization of him as a snake in the grass. At least that's the way I read it. Also can you give examples of previous times D&D said something in the post show videos that actually turned out opposite because that would really stick it to those who really think they are so obviously foreshadowing a Stark civil war. At the most I think Sansa would play along with LF making it look to us like she's betraying Jon just to turn around and kill LF.

[Cron]

On 6/27/2016 at 7:28 AM, ssls6 said:

The scene with him trying and failing to get Sansa, then disparaging Jon to create a little chaos, and finally watching as the Northern Lords pledged themselves to Jon while Sansa smiled in approval is concerning to me.  You could see the wheels turning in his head.  I say his next move is back to KL but what does he do there?  Tell Cerci that Jon/Sansa have taken the North and push for a Lannister reaction?

I think Littlefinger's next major move is gonna be to get crossed off.

Maybe a little bit more scheming, but with Dany, her armies, and her dragons about to land, and with the Forces of Life about to unite against the White Walker crew, I think Littlefinger's schemes and games are just about over.  I believe there will NEVER be conflict between Dany and Jon, whether Littlefinger wants it or not.   I believe Cersei is gonna get steamrolled, then Jon and Dany will unite their forces to fight the White Walker crew.  What room does that leave for more chaos from Littlefinger, especially with only 13 episodes left?

I think the good guys are gonna finally figure out Littlefinger is one of the worst guys there is (based on things he's already done), then it's bye bye Littlefinger (Jon and Sansa would have LF executed immediately if they knew what LF has already done, in my very strong opinlon.)

[Jaynee Doh]

If Littlefinger were anywhere near as smart or cunning as he thinks he is, his next move would be to high-tail it out of Winterfell and be right quick about it. Albeit his options are few, his chances for survival are very small at Winterfell.

For one thing he tried his best to convince Sansa the northern lords would rally around the true born daughter of a northern lord instead of a motherless bastard from the south. Well, we all know how well that went for him. I believe Sansa is on to him. I don't believe the talk from D & D about the strife between Jon and Sansa over who should rule.  Those two come up with so much incorrect drama about characters between seasons, I think they could actually write a whole new series called "Fan Trolling" that would be almost as successful as GOT.

Secondly, Sansa is in Winterfell. Lord Royce is in Winterfell. Sansa has already told Jon, Kit in the North King in the North, Littlefinger had sold her to the Boltons. That is basically true, although he did give her the option of returning to the Vale. But Littlefinger told Lord Royce they were beset upon by Bolton men and Sansa was abducted from him. At the same time Littlefinger accused Lord Royce of being in league with the Boltons. Of having alerted the Boltons to Sansa's whereabouts. Littlefinger put into question Lord Royce's loyalty and threatened him with a long drop and quick stop through the moon door. Does Littlefinger really want to be in Winterfell if or when Sansa and Lord Royce start comparing notes? And who is to say if that truth came out the truth of Lysa Arryn's death would not finally come out? Maybe, maybe not. Sansa could always give her favorite back up line "I did what i had to do to survive". The Vale lords and ladies, not liking or trusting Littlefinger to begin with, would probably be more understanding toward Sansa than toward Littlefinger.

Although she may not remember it yet, Sansa is also aware Littlefinger was all, or in part, responsible for the death of King Joffrey Baratheon, Jon Arryn, and Lysa Arryn.

So, he shouldn't be anywhere in the North for his own good. Every thing from The Neck going north is team Snow/Stark/Targaryen.The Vale has proclaimed for the North, so they are also team S/S/T. Even if he proclaimed for the North for them, they were there to proclaim for the King in the North themselves.

Dragonstone, The Iron Islands, The Reach and Dorne are all, or mostly, team Targaryen. Neither Varys nor Tyrion (and possibly Theon) would let Dany believe Littlefinger's words for a moment. So the south and southwest are out, as well as a coastal area in the west.

The Westerlands, the Crownlands, and probably the Stormlands (since there seem to be no more true born Baratheons left) belong to the Lannisters. Mad queen Cesei would want his head on a silver platter. so, the mid-lands are out also.

Technically, the Riverlands also belong to the Lannisters. But somehow that seems to be his best option as far as safety goes. He is the lord of Harrenhall, isn't he? Is he? I think he still is.

Anyway, Jaime has his hands a bit too full with a crazy twin sister to be running back to retake the Riverlands, again. The Twins will be in a state of chaos as the Freys try to figure out who their new lord is. Riverrun is still without a lord as he is still in the dungeon until/unless Arya gets/lets him out. A bit of chaos there, also. Littlefinger loves chaos. He would quite happily jump into the middle of it and try to connive the Freys into letting him take over the Riverlands. Although he would be surrounded on 4 sides by enemies.

Gee, that turned out to be much longer than i had planned. Sorry about that.

[MoreOrLess]

10 hours ago, tormond said:

Varys is with Dany, and you are suggesting that littlefinger might have a chance with her?

I think littlefinger will try to do his best work on Sansa. Everyone is against the mad queen, maybe euron will be the only one who gets on her side. I dont think littlefinger wants any part of the mad queen for now unless of course he's double crossed by Sansa in which he loses his influence on the vale. Sansa is a doubtful character. She might start something against Jon but she might also try to fool littlefinger and doublecross him. Even though littlefinger has masterfully created a chaotic westeros and is the main reason for basically everything, he has failed to consolidate his power. He has taken down 3 great houses and diminished the others and yet he still depends on somebody else's army. If only there was a way for him to get rid of sweetrobin and take over the vale.

If Varys and Tyrion are present Dany will definitely be warned about LF but that doesn't me she might not end up in a situation where she potentially has no choice but to ally with him. I won't be supprised if the Tarly's end up on Cersei's side with the promise of overlordship of The Reach as inducement plus there is always the potential for mishaps on the way for Dany and disagreement between her allies.

You bring up an interesting point in terms of Sansa trying to sue LF, how would she do that and what does he have to give her? I would say the main potential issue is that he seems to have some degree of control over Robin although you could argue this has been somewhat diminished by the Vale forces showing such strong support for Jon, Again I think the most obvious tactical move is for Sansa to marry Robin and make the alliance between the north and the vale stronger so that might need some help from him.

I suspect that LF will end up as the last "threat" in the political side of the story as he's been pushed so hard as being the personification of the destructive lust for power.