Let's Discuss Arya's Pie Baking Logistics

[Zoo_Dane]

10 hours ago, The Fattest Leech said:

Was the pie necessary? No. It was obviously for extra shock value". So you just admitted that the show put the pies in there for extra shock value, ergo, the way they were done added nothing to the overall story

Was it necessary for Walder to have Greywinds head sewn to Robb's body? Did that progress the plot? Wasnt that just for added shock value? 

I still don't see your point in the slightes. 

[sifth]

Just another example of a character with the power to teleport. Still nowhere near on the level of the crap Varys pulled this week.

[hallam]

8 hours ago, spivo said:

We just saw a finger, for all we know she killed them, cut of a finger and stuffed it in a pie already made.

The whole point of it was to break Walder mentally and then kill him, whether or not the pie was made from Frey's matters not, what matters is what Walder thought it was made of.

 

BUT IF she did make a whole pie of them, then yes it does border (and also crosses the border) of being ridiculous.

I don't see the issue. Arya kills the two Freys, butchers them for some meat, browns it, mixes it into the pie already being made for Walder Frey. Takes it and serves it.

Logistics are really not that difficult. As ever the Forums complain about not having everything made explicit.

5 hours ago, Winter's Cold said:

If Arya wasn't intelligent, how could she accomplish what she did this episode?

Quite. I think the thing on the bridge was a miscalculation, not stupidity. She knew she had to force the waif out into the open and into her trap. The waif was a little faster than she expected. 

 

As for the pie... I think people are missing the tactical point. The pie is obviously going to be examined after Walder is discovered. The fingers were obviously there deliberately so it was known that Walder Frey had been killed to avenge the red wedding. It was to strike fear in the hearts of the other Freys. 

[TickTak7]

16 hours ago, EllieDriver said:

Because Arya is renowned for her straight D's in the domestic arts department. We don't need it all answered, but those of us who appreciate good storytelling need it to ring true. Sadly, Arya baking the Frey pies does not. 

She killed them off-screen. Believable. 

She cut off a finger or two. Believable. 

She had access to the kitchens in her disguise. Believable. 

She slyly added the fingers to the pie while in the kitchens. Believable. 

Not a question of good storytelling or not - more so just being unreasonably critical. 

 

[Masha]

39 minutes ago, TickTak7 said:

She killed them off-screen. Believable. 

She cut off a finger or two. Believable. 

She had access to the kitchens in her disguise. Believable. 

She slyly added the fingers to the pie while in the kitchens. Believable. 

Not a question of good storytelling or not - more so just being unreasonably critical. 

 

As the "castle help" she also probably was expected to help out in kitchen, not so hard to mix in some frey meat and fingers into staffing as the cook is not looking and seal it.

[Nevets]

I am curious about one thing:  Why does she need to wear a mask in the first place?  Nobody at the Twins has ever even met Arya, or even knows what she looks like.  She could walk through the gate with her own face and nobody would be any the wiser.

As for the pies, it does seem like a lot of excess effort.  Better to just serve their heads on covered platters.  He lifts the lid, and sees his son staring at him.  Yum!

[Ser Lepus]

Well, these last two episodes have eschewed logistics entirely. People teleports across half the world, Arya butchers the whole Frey clan and makes pies out of them without Walder noticing...etc...

But on the other hand, interesting stuff is finally happening, so I will let it slide and enjoy the show.

By the way, there are an insane amount of badass female characters now. I have become a fan of Lady Chibi Mormont.

 

 

[TickTak7]

39 minutes ago, Nevets said:

I am curious about one thing:  Why does she need to wear a mask in the first place?  Nobody at the Twins has ever even met Arya, or even knows what she looks like.  She could walk through the gate with her own face and nobody would be any the wiser.

As for the pies, it does seem like a lot of excess effort.  Better to just serve their heads on covered platters.  He lifts the lid, and sees his son staring at him.  Yum!

She was outside the Twins when her family was slaughtered inside. 

She knows the Twins is an anti-Stark part of Westeros. 

Beyond that, because she's been away for so long, she knows very little else. 

Disguising herself was smart; there was no way of her knowing if anyone would be able to recognize her or not. 

 

[EllieDriver]

1 hour ago, TickTak7 said:

She killed them off-screen. Believable. 

She cut off a finger or two. Believable. 

She had access to the kitchens in her disguise. Believable. 

She slyly added the fingers to the pie while in the kitchens. Believable. 

Not a question of good storytelling or not - more so just being unreasonably critical. 

 

That enough people cared to comment should be demonstration enough of reasoned criticism. This is supposed to be adult fare, not Saturday cartoons.

[Aryakills]

1 hour ago, Nevets said:

I am curious about one thing:  Why does she need to wear a mask in the first place?  Nobody at the Twins has ever even met Arya, or even knows what she looks like.  She could walk through the gate with her own face and nobody would be any the wiser.

As for the pies, it does seem like a lot of excess effort.  Better to just serve their heads on covered platters.  He lifts the lid, and sees his son staring at him.  Yum!

Why take the chance? Wear a different face.

Carry around a tray with two severed heads? And as soon as someone bumps into you, you're toast. Lopping off a finger and concealing it in an already made pie is the smarter way to go.

 

[MtnLion]

1 hour ago, Nevets said:

I am curious about one thing:  Why does she need to wear a mask in the first place?  Nobody at the Twins has ever even met Arya, or even knows what she looks like.  She could walk through the gate with her own face and nobody would be any the wiser.

As for the pies, it does seem like a lot of excess effort.  Better to just serve their heads on covered platters.  He lifts the lid, and sees his son staring at him.  Yum!

Jaime would have recognized her.  That is what has been missing on this thread, she poured wine for Bronn, and tried to seductively lure Jaime to some private location to off him.  Then days later we have the pie.  The Twins are pretty deserted, and I am wondering how many others she has put to rest, too. 

[Banjo]

9 hours ago, Zoo_Dane said:

Was it necessary for Walder to have Greywinds head sewn to Robb's body? Did that progress the plot? Wasnt that just for added shock value? 

I still don't see your point in the slightes. 

Yes, it is the desecration of his body and his legend. He was called the young wolf and was on the way of becoming a legend. There were stories about his direwolf. This is one of the surest way to kill of the legacy of someone when you mock him in death

[sifth]

13 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

And while I don't believe in any Great Northern Conspiracy the way the show depicted the Northmen was atrocious. They are neither cravens nor traitors. The entire Ramsay plot is not going to happen this way in the books at all. Ramsay isn't even a main character, and everything in the books makes it clear that Ramsay could not keep Roose's allies in line should his father die.

I'm not sure Roose/Ramsay will die at Winterfell, but they hold over the North will be definitely be broken at Winterfell.

Well in the same way no villain in this series is really a main character.................well aside from Victarion and Cercie I suppose, but I doubt the former is long for this world. No Ramsay is a main villain of the series, just like Tywin Joffrey, the Moutain, Euron and dozens of other characters. I do agree that the way the Stark bannermen were treated is stupid as hell. It was like they all vanished after the Red Wedding, only to show up again this season.

[Jarl Halstein]

20 minutes ago, MtnLion said:

Jaime would have recognized her.  That is what has been missing on this thread, she poured wine for Bronn, and tried to seductively lure Jaime to some private location to off him.  Then days later we have the pie.  The Twins are pretty deserted, and I am wondering how many others she has put to rest, too. 

Ohh, I didn't think of that. It's the same girl who poured wine to Jaime - excellent find, MtnLion.

And yes, that clears things up. As you say, that means she has been there for days. She didn't just arrive and start killing people, which I had been thinking until now.

[MtnLion]

5 minutes ago, Jarl Halstein said:

Ohh, I didn't think of that. It's the same girl who poured wine to Jaime - excellent find, MtnLion.

And yes, that clears things up. As you say, that means she has been there for days. She didn't just arrive and start killing people, which I had been thinking until now.

I verified it, yesterday before watching Beyond the Thrones, where they confirmed it, too.  I had a sneaky suspicion before rewinding the recording that they were the same girl.  She is standing with some Lannister soldiers, and gives Jaime a nice come hither smile, which he ignores.  (She isn't Cersei, after all.) 

[adiman83]

I don't know if this will make any sense but here it goes.

Now I understand why Jaquen told Arya she has finally become "no one". She killed Walder Frey and behaved exactly in the way I would expect of a Faceless Man. She gloated a bit but she was calm the entire time, showed no hate towards The Late Lord Frey (that's so fitting now) and she gave him a quick death. 

Arya truly is No One now. A few years ago, before she went to Braavos, she would've butchered Walder in the most horrible way we can imagine. But she didn't kill him the way we would expect Arya Stark to do it.

[The Fattest Leech]

11 hours ago, Zoo_Dane said:

Was it necessary for Walder to have Greywinds head sewn to Robb's body? Did that progress the plot? Wasnt that just for added shock value? 

I still don't see your point in the slightes. 

Yes. It was the symbolic killing of a legend and directly linked to the HotU visions Dany has and... well, she has them in the books but the tv opened that hole when they messed up Dany's HotU visions and left half the story out. So in all actuality, the show could have been a 3 hour movie that bypasses all the "filler" and just cuts to a Dany/Jon intro and then epic battle with the WW's.

So what we saw on tv was Arya serving up vapid, empty revenge instead of the symbolism of the north is strong and remembers.

[throney]

2 hours ago, adiman83 said:

I don't know if this will make any sense but here it goes.

Now I understand why Jaquen told Arya she has finally become "no one". She killed Walder Frey and behaved exactly in the way I would expect of a Faceless Man. She gloated a bit but she was calm the entire time, showed no hate towards The Late Lord Frey (that's so fitting now) and she gave him a quick death. 

Arya truly is No One now. A few years ago, before she went to Braavos, she would've butchered Walder in the most horrible way we can imagine. But she didn't kill him the way we would expect Arya Stark to do it.

Well she literally butchered his sons.

[Winter's Cold]

2 hours ago, adiman83 said:

I don't know if this will make any sense but here it goes.

Now I understand why Jaquen told Arya she has finally become "no one". She killed Walder Frey and behaved exactly in the way I would expect of a Faceless Man. She gloated a bit but she was calm the entire time, showed no hate towards The Late Lord Frey (that's so fitting now) and she gave him a quick death. 

Arya truly is No One now. A few years ago, before she went to Braavos, she would've butchered Walder in the most horrible way we can imagine. But she didn't kill him the way we would expect Arya Stark to do it.

I do think Arya is capable of doing something similar in the books. She likes to make her vengeance poetic. The main reason that Arya baked Lothar Frey and Black Walder Frey into pies and then fed them to Walder was to emulate the Rat Cook story of Season 3 episode 10.

In the books it's likely that she will have Nymeria and her pack eat them alive due to the Frey lie that the Northerners became wolves during the Red Wedding. 

Arya is a very meticulous killer. She plans her kills to ensure that her target's experience the greatest suffering possible before finishing them. She wants those that she hates to experience her pain rather than giving them a quick painless execution. 

[Yin & Yang]

ASOIAF / GOT fans are seriously just the worst sometimes.

I don't understand why you're so hung up on logistics. Why do you need to know every detail to know how making these pies was possible? So many in here have already given simple explanations (Arya cut off a hand and inserted it into a pre-made pie and told the story so Walder Frey would have a moment of dread before his death).

All that matters is whether Arya had a motive, which she clearly did. You people wanting to see every detail probably wanted to see Tyrion spend a whole season sharpening his cyvase skills and asking random strangers "where do whores go". Or maybe you wanted Brienne to spend a whole season walking around asking people if they had seen a "highborn maid of three and ten with a fair face and auburn hair". Talk about riveting television.