Let's Discuss Arya's Pie Baking Logistics

[PetyrPunkinhead]

On 6/27/2016 at 1:39 PM, Aegonzo The Great said:

This is my biggest issue. Even if she could do it, why would she do it? She could have just as easily beheaded them and kept their heads in a bag to pull out when Walder asked "Where are my sons?"

Seems like a huge waste of time.

Why? It's meant to mirror or take the place of a similar scene from the book Dance with Dragons, which of course was based on a scene from Shakespeare's Titus Andronicus, which in turn was based on the ageless classic episode of South Park called "Scott Tenorman Must Die."

 

[Adam141414]

Its not just about killing the character, its about humiliating them and degrading them. The most satisfying thing about Ramsey's death was Sansa taunting him about his name and House vanishing. 

A simple cut throat isn't enough, Arya has Walder petrified before killing him.  

 

[purple-eyes]

am I the only person who feels kind of uncomfortable with these pie-making stuff?

sure, it is great to revenge. But is it so necessary to do something like this?

Cut the meat from human bodies and cook them into a pie and serve to somebody to eat?

And where did she get the face of a serving girl?

did she just kill some random servant girl to facilitate her action?

This is horrible.

[twilight]

4 hours ago, Cron said:

I don't recall Arya being taught the pie stuff by the Faceless Men in the show or the books..

I guess I don't have a huge problem with most of the scene, but the pie thing was not the work of a deadly efficient assassin, it was something different altogether as far as I'm concerned, and as others have pointed out, is making some people wonder about whether Arya is still a "good guy" or not. (Personally, I DO believe she's a "good guy," and the pie thing was out of character, but I guess we'll see if GRRM puts it in the books.  When GRRM speaks, it's canon, so I guess if he says Arya does the pie thing, then that's who she is.  My guess is that Arya won't do the pie thing in the book, though)

This is just sarcasm on my side. Because you're completely right, an efficient assassin is completely different than Arya and also different from the faceless men. And the waif is the best symbol for that. The whole FM-thing was ridiculous in my oponion.

But interesting that you still consider her being a good guy. I thought she was lost when she killed Meryn Trant. That was the work of a psychopath. And to cut someone face like she did with the waif, that is as well something only a couple of very, very, very special people do I couln't do that, and if my life would depend on it.

No, I am really worried about book-Arya. Does she do the piething? I don't know. Maybe that's a LSH-thing. But be that as it may, I am deeply worried. But I hope the bookpart of the faceless men will be better.

 

 

[twilight]

1 hour ago, purple-eyes said:

am I the only person who feels kind of uncomfortable with these pie-making stuff?

sure, it is great to revenge. But is it so necessary to do something like this?

Cut the meat from human bodies and cook them into a pie and serve to somebody to eat?

And where did she get the face of a serving girl?

did she just kill some random servant girl to facilitate her action?

This is horrible.

No, you're not the only one. THing is, that people usually make a difference between reality and fiction. While that being real would call for a new word to invent, because abhorrent or monstrous isn't enough anymore, the fictious story element is great. What a revenge. How cool is that!

There should be a reason for it, of course and Arya appears to be a bit off the rail here. Why did she do it? It would have been fitting to wait for a wedding and then kill all the Freys on that party, if you know what I mean. Let the punishment fit the crime. On the other hand, that is a show-problem. Because in the books there is a connection. Don't know how many other connections there are, but this story here is a nice base

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Rat_Cook

Anyway, Arya is a little psychopath. The face in the end? Geez, she has lost it. Ask her what time it is and she might stab you.

[ssls6]

1) we really don't know how faces work.  Maybe you can access any that are in the house of BW archives?  We have seen scenes where that looks to be the case.

2) Arya is at the twins at night severing.  She could at anytime after the feast kill the two Freys.

3) It is after mid day on the following day that Lord Walder is calling for his sons.  He says as much.

4) Arya could have easily slipping Frey meat into the filling that some other kitchen staff person was creating that morning for Lord Walder.  As a serving girl, she would serve the pie once done.

 

It takes assumptions to say the logistics cannot work just like it takes assumptions to say it could work.  What a person believes says more about that person than what was shown.  Perception is a tricky thing.

[PrinceRhaegar]

For everyone who asks why she did it, I ask you why did Freys put Greywind’s head on Robb’s body and parade him through the streers and mock him?  Arya saw all that, so I think killing Walder wasn’t enough for her. She needed him to suffer before she kills him. And Frey pies are one crazy way to make it so.

[purple-eyes]

4 minutes ago, PrinceRhaegar said:

For everyone who asks why she did it, I ask you why did Freys put Greywinds head on Robbs body and parade him through the streers and mock him?  Arya saw all that, so I think killing Walder wasnt enough for her. She needed him to suffer before she kills him. And Frey pies are one crazy way to make it so.

totally understand. but still, imho, to make human meat into pie and let their father eat, is worse than to put a wolf head onto robb's body. especially considering she is a teenage girl. 

 

[PrinceRhaegar]

3 minutes ago, purple-eyes said:

totally understand. but still, imho, to make human meat into pie and let their father eat, is worse than to put a wolf head onto robb's body. especially considering she is a teenage girl. 

 

I would say she was teenage girl 5 seasons ago. But now? After all things she has seen and done? She had one fast growing up... It is horrible and it is also tragic, thats why i love it. Everyone likes Arya and wants her to get revenge. But is this right thing to do? Did people cheer for insane look in her eyes she had in the end? I can’t wait to see where will story take her from here.

[Winter's Cold]

If Arya's such a stone cold murderer and psycopath, why didn't she kill Lady Crane?

[ssls6]

Just now, Winter's Cold said:

If Arya's such a stone cold murderer and psycopath, why didn't she kill Lady Crane?

A really good question.  Does she turn south from the twins "Cerci" or north towards home?  I think that will hint strongly at the answer.

[Winter's Cold]

1 minute ago, ssls6 said:

A really good question.  Does she turn south from the twins "Cerci" or north towards home?  I think that will hint strongly at the answer.

I believe Arya loves her family more than she hates Cersei. I think she'll go North but that isn't a guarantee.

[Aryakills]

3 hours ago, purple-eyes said:

am I the only person who feels kind of uncomfortable with these pie-making stuff?

sure, it is great to revenge. But is it so necessary to do something like this?

Cut the meat from human bodies and cook them into a pie and serve to somebody to eat?

And where did she get the face of a serving girl?

did she just kill some random servant girl to facilitate her action?

This is horrible.

Bite down on one of your finger tips. Not a little nibble, go at least past the nail. Seems like it would be kinda tough to chew doesn't it? Something that chunky someone would notice. She killed the sons, hid the bodies, and lopped off just a finger that could be easily hidden until she could slip it into a pie.

She sets a pie down that already has a piece missing. Why the missing piece? Perhaps to make it easier to peel back the crust of an already made pie and slip in the finger tip? She needed to shock Walder into inaction. So she told him she killed his sons and lied about baking them.

[purple-eyes]

4 minutes ago, Aryakills said:

Bite down on one of your finger tips. Not a little nibble, go at least past the nail. Seems like it would be kinda tough to chew doesn't it? Something that chunky someone would notice. She killed the sons, hid the bodies and lopped off just a finger that could be easily hidden.

She sets a pie down that already has a piece missing. Why the missing piece? Perhaps to make it easier to peel back the crust of an already made pie and slip in the finger tip? She needed to shock Walder into inaction, So she told him she killed his sons and lied about baking them.

this is your imagination right? 

do we know how exactly she made the frey pie? 

[Aryakills]

Speculation on how she did it.

Which makes more sense... Carving up a couple pounds of meat(this would be a very bloody process), taking the meat to a busy kitchen, making a pie, and placing a chunky finger perfectly on top.

 

or just quicky slipping a finger tip into an already made already sliced pie?

 

[Maid So Fair]

Yet another wasted opportunity in GOT where the showrunners went with an OMG SHOCKING moment thwt ultimatepybrang hollow instead of bothering to build up any real tension or establish any stakes. Because if the audience has any idea what's going on its not shocking enough.

It would have been so easy - instead of a random face, they could have had Arya using the Waif's, a face she actually earned. We would know from the beginning who she was, wonder what exactly she was up to (killing Freys, but how? Was Jaime in danger too?),  And we would have been on the edge of our seats wondering if she will succeed or get caught. One extra shot of her helping out in the kitchens and an earlier remark about the missing sons would have both increased the send of dread and put an end to people wondering should how the hell Arya managed any of this. It's a shame D&D so utterly suck at writing real drama.

[Dolorous Gabe]

15 minutes ago, Maid So Fair said:

Yet another wasted opportunity in GOT where the showrunners went with an OMG SHOCKING moment thwt ultimatepybrang hollow instead of bothering to build up any real tension or establish any stakes. Because if the audience has any idea what's going on its not shocking enough.

It would have been so easy - instead of a random face, they could have had Arya using the Waif's, a face she actually earned. We would know from the beginning who she was, wonder what exactly she was up to (killing Freys, but how? Was Jaime in danger too?),  And we would have been on the edge of our seats wondering if she will succeed or get caught. One extra shot of her helping out in the kitchens and an earlier remark about the missing sons would have both increased the send of dread and put an end to people wondering should how the hell Arya managed any of this. It's a shame D&D so utterly suck at writing real drama.

This.

Arya is a primary character. The primary characters' goals should be established and their story should have obstacles in the way of achieving that goal. Forget 'Frey pies', without the Manderly context and being at the Twins means going to such lengths is more than a little ridiculous.

[sifth]

8 hours ago, Cron said:

I don't recall Arya being taught the pie stuff by the Faceless Men in the show or the books..

I guess I don't have a huge problem with most of the scene, but the pie thing was not the work of a deadly efficient assassin, it was something different altogether as far as I'm concerned, and as others have pointed out, is making some people wonder about whether Arya is still a "good guy" or not. (Personally, I DO believe she's a "good guy," and the pie thing was out of character, but I guess we'll see if GRRM puts it in the books.  When GRRM speaks, it's canon, so I guess if he says Arya does the pie thing, then that's who she is.  My guess is that Arya won't do the pie thing in the book, though)

 

What bothers me about the whole Frey Pie is, just how was one person able to pull it off. In the books I can believe it, because it's being done by one of the strongest lords in the north, who has his own small army at his command. On the show, Arya had to have killed the 3 Freys, chopped up their bodies, cook the remains in the kitchen, bake them in a pie, and get Lord Walder alone. All without anyone noticing her. This is both goes against what her FM training was suppose to teacher her and seems insanely impossible.

I know I'm repeating myself, but I love how the show just magically gave Arya the power to change faces, without any training. I mean all of those Bravos episodes and not one on the art of changing your appearance, wtf D&D wtf.

[GilletteMace]

On 27.6.2016 at 4:46 PM, Mista C said:

1.  Infiltrates the Frey's castle.

2.  Kills two (at least) Frey's.

3.  Dismembers them for their meat.

4.  Brings meat to the kitchen.

5.  Assembles other pie ingredients.

6.  Prepares and bakes pie.

7.  Serves pie to Walder Frey, who is completely alone in his dining hall.

8.  Kills Walder Frey.

9. Escapes the Frey's castle.

 

I already answered this in some other topic, the answer is logistically quite easy.

1. Arya enters the castle through the sewers.

2. She lures the freyboys down there

3. Kills them in the darkness.

4. Steals a kettle and a readymade pie from the kitchen

5. Goes back to the sewers, cuts of genitals face and brain of the freyboys, takes out stuffing of the readymade pie

6. Cooks it all together in the stolen kettle down in the sewers and refills the readymade pie.

7. Serves pie to walder frey, who is completely alone in his dining hall.

8. Kills walder Frey.

9. Escapes the Frey's castle.

 

[GilletteMace]

oops, i answered in the quote, thus couldnt edit it...

 

I already answered this in some other topic, the answer is logistically quite easy.

1. Arya enters the castle through the sewers.

2. She lures the freyboys down there

3. Kills them in the darkness.

4. Steals a kettle and a readymade pie from the kitchen

5. Goes back to the sewers, cuts out genitals, face and brain of the freyboys, takes out stuffing of the readymade pie

6. Cooks it all together in the stolen kettle down in the sewers and refills the readymade pie.

7. Serves pie to walder frey, who is completely alone in his dining hall.

8. Kills walder Frey.

9. Escapes the Frey's castle.