Let's Discuss Arya's Pie Baking Logistics

[[Deleted]]

13 hours ago, PetyrPunkinhead said:

Why? It's meant to mirror or take the place of a similar scene from the book Dance with Dragons, which of course was based on a scene from Shakespeare's Titus Andronicus, which in turn was based on the ageless classic episode of South Park called "Scott Tenorman Must Die."

 

Oh, well, if it's referencing South Park, then I stand corrected. A true masterstroke!

[ShadowKitteh]

I have a better idea. Let's not discuss it.

There really is no reason. She's not a kid, and she's survived until now. That kind of a pie isn't hard in anyway whatsoever, and it's not like she's never been inside a kitchen. How is it so hard it imagine she could throw a pie together in the kitchens at The Twins? It's not as if pie crust is hard. Flour + butter + water = pie crust. You blend together until you get the right consistency. 

Then you throw everything else in. Body parts, carrots, onion, peas, oven: PIE.

Just because you never saw Arya at Cordon Blu, doesn't mean she hasn't learned to cook, or seen how a pie is thrown together.

The nitpickery is getting silly in the extreme.

[MyLittleFinger]

On 6/27/2016 at 10:46 AM, Mista C said:

1.  Infiltrates the Frey's castle.

2.  Kills two (at least) Frey's.

3.  Dismembers them for their meat.

4.  Brings meat to the kitchen.

5.  Assembles other pie ingredients.

6.  Prepares and bakes pie.

7.  Serves pie to Walder Frey, who is completely alone in his dining hall.

8.  Kills Walder Frey.

9. Escapes the Frey's castle.

So I'm having a very hard time with numbers 2-6.  She had to kill both Frey's without anyone seeing.  Then she had to bring both of their bodies somewhere secret where she could dismember the bodies and obtain their meat without anyone interrupting her.  Then she had to get their meat down to the kitchen somehow.  Then she had to assemble the ingredients, prepare the pie and bake the pie, all while in the company of the regular Frey kitchen staff, who were not at all concerned that there was a stranger using their kitchen to assemble and bake pies.  Cool scene, but logistically it just does not work.  Am I missing anything?

Can't wait for Arya to be dismembered and killed for her blatant disregard of guest right. 

[Dolorous Gabe]

17 minutes ago, ShadowKitteh said:

I have a better idea. Let's not discuss it.

There really is no reason. She's not a kid, and she's survived until now. That kind of a pie isn't hard in anyway whatsoever, and it's not like she's never been inside a kitchen. How is it so hard it imagine she could throw a pie together in the kitchens at The Twins? It's not as if pie crust is hard. Flour + butter + water = pie crust. You blend together until you get the right consistency. 

Then you throw everything else in. Body parts, carrots, onion, peas, oven: PIE.

Just because you never saw Arya at Cordon Blu, doesn't mean she hasn't learned to cook, or seen how a pie is thrown together.

The nitpickery is getting silly in the extreme.

 

Nitpickery? Really? This is full-blown ludicrousness!

She has been on the run since she was about 12 and her character's personality is not one you would associate cooking skills with. And surely, as a highborn youngster in a world where it would be reasonable to assume others will always cook for her she would never have needed to learn. Plus, if this was the plan, at least show her learning how from Hot Pie while they were together. If something like that is going to happen, at least build up to it.

And you left out a few rather important factors, like the fact that the kitchen at the Twins will nearly always have people working in it, especially around the time of a huge party. Arya would have needed to kill Lothar and Black Walder without anyone noticing, slice and dice them without anyone noticing, clean up the blood from all that butchery, take them to what will most certainly be a busy kitchen, and bake them into a pie without anyone noticing.

Oh and to go a little further back, she has had to travel to the Twins from Braavos with three horrific stab wounds in the gut no doubt made worse by the superhero stunts escaping from the Nameless Girl, having also somehow stolen a face to use from the HoBaW with no explanation how that works.

And the real kicker. What was the point of going to all that trouble to be so utterly sadistic?

GoT isn't a story anymore, it's like a collection of disjointed vignettes without any proper build-up.

[Hodor's Aunt]

On 27.6.2016 at 4:46 PM, Mista C said:

1.  Infiltrates the Frey's castle.

2.  Kills two (at least) Frey's.

3.  Dismembers them for their meat.

4.  Brings meat to the kitchen.

5.  Assembles other pie ingredients.

6.  Prepares and bakes pie.

7.  Serves pie to Walder Frey, who is completely alone in his dining hall.

8.  Kills Walder Frey.

9. Escapes the Frey's castle.

So I'm having a very hard time with numbers 2-6.

@1: no big deal. Rush in with the Lannister army pretending to be some whores daughter. After being in the castle lure a kitchen maid aside, kill her and take her face and place.

@2 lure the Frey's (one at a time) under the alias of the kitchen girl in a dark corner. Promise pussy if necessary. 

@3+4 no big thing really. Cut some of the meat and smuggle it in the kitchen. Hide the remaining parts somewere. 

@5+6 I guess they will bake pies on a regular basis. Maybe she didn't even need to do the actual cooking/baking herself.

@7 Walder uses to dine alone. Reference: Scene after the red wedding. He is eating alone in his hall. Roose Bolten appears but doesn't eat anything. BTW: I understand the scene as if Walder didn't get the first part of the pie served in the scene we see. In my understanding of the context he had already a piece of the pie and ordered some more.

@8 yeah, cause why not. He is unaware and old.

@9 still to do. But: all witnesses will tell they saw a well known servant last going in the direction of WF. And this service maid is gone (fled the castle). They will search for her. Not for Arya whom nobody knows. Except for Jaimie who may not recognize her anymore.

She would still have needed the Jetpack to get there from Bravos. But well, that's the tv series. 

[Hodor's Aunt]

21 minutes ago, MyLittleFinger said:

Can't wait for Arya to be dismembered and killed for her blatant disregard of guest right. 

was she having bread and salt with anybody?

She didn't enter the castle as a guest so there is no guest right that could be violated.

[MyLittleFinger]

11 minutes ago, Hodor's Aunt said:

was she having bread and salt with anybody?

She didn't enter the castle as a guest so there is no guest right that could be violated.

So serving everybody all day she decided not to eat anything at all in the castle so she could ward off a "curse?" Sure

[brightflame princess]

On 6/27/2016 at 7:46 AM, Mista C said:

1.  Infiltrates the Frey's castle.

2.  Kills two (at least) Frey's.

3.  Dismembers them for their meat.

4.  Brings meat to the kitchen.

5.  Assembles other pie ingredients.

6.  Prepares and bakes pie.

7.  Serves pie to Walder Frey, who is completely alone in his dining hall.

8.  Kills Walder Frey.

9. Escapes the Frey's castle.

So I'm having a very hard time with numbers 2-6.  She had to kill both Frey's without anyone seeing.  Then she had to bring both of their bodies somewhere secret where she could dismember the bodies and obtain their meat without anyone interrupting her.  Then she had to get their meat down to the kitchen somehow.  Then she had to assemble the ingredients, prepare the pie and bake the pie, all while in the company of the regular Frey kitchen staff, who were not at all concerned that there was a stranger using their kitchen to assemble and bake pies.  Cool scene, but logistically it just does not work.  Am I missing anything?

Yeah, it doesn't make much sense. And walder definitely should have taken a bite before she told him! That would have been great.. well as great as tricking somebody into eating their kin can be...

I have given up on the show making sense.. arya getting stabbed was so stupid, it shouldn't have happened at all. Everything else could have still happened and made more sense, if that stupid scene never occurred. Why the hell did they include that? Why?! I seriously hope that isn't in the books, or that it at least makes sense. 

 

So yeah, I'm totally with you, it's very unrealistic.

 

Also.. the way you use the word "meat" is super creepy lol

[Kytheros]

13 hours ago, MyLittleFinger said:

So serving everybody all day she decided not to eat anything at all in the castle so she could ward off a "curse?" Sure

Guest Right begins when you eat the "bread and salt" of the host.

It's just as likely that she brought her own food, or, barring that, she only ate food not involved with the invocation of guest right.

 

But again, it's a distortion of something from the books. In the books, Manderly is the one who brought the Frey Pies, and he also brought loads of his own food with him to Winterfell, and only ate from his own food stores. And he gave the Freys he put into the pies "Guest Gifts" that traditionally serve to signal the end of Guest Right before he put them into the pies.

[littleRickon]

Arya was for season 6 what Dorne was for season 5. Rushed, pointless, illogical. After the stabbing, anything with Arya seemed unbelivable to me, because I saw her get literally deadly (slow, painful too) wounds and just shrug it off. So the impossibility of her baking the pies didn't surprise me. It was a nice nod to the books, a shocking moment, but overall took away from what was otherwise a fantastic episode.

[FacelessManOf TheShire]

Seriously? Who actually gives enough of a fuck to fill 10 pages?

[hallam]

On 7/12/2016 at 5:38 PM, MyLittleFinger said:

So serving everybody all day she decided not to eat anything at all in the castle so she could ward off a "curse?" Sure

Sigh,

"THERE IS THIS BIG PLOT HOLE"

No, there isn't, Arya just doesn't eat the bread and salt

"HOW LIKELY SOMEONE WOULD DO THAT?"

Well if they are killing someone to get revenge on them for violating guest right, pretty high indeed. And not least because she would want to be in and out with as little fuss as possible.

[RoamingRonin]

On 7/12/2016 at 5:38 PM, MyLittleFinger said:

So serving everybody all day she decided not to eat anything at all in the castle so she could ward off a "curse?" Sure

One has to request guest right or the host has to offer it. You can't sneak into someone's house, eat their food and still expect guest right even though you're there to kill the host.

It shouldn't be possible for an assassin can eat some of the host's food in case they get caught just to claim guest right. It has to be willingly and knowingly served.

On 7/12/2016 at 5:57 PM, brightflame princess said:

Yeah, it doesn't make much sense. And walder definitely should have taken a bite before she told him! That would have been great.. well as great as tricking somebody into eating their kin can be...

I have given up on the show making sense.. arya getting stabbed was so stupid, it shouldn't have happened at all. Everything else could have still happened and made more sense, if that stupid scene never occurred. Why the hell did they include that? Why?! I seriously hope that isn't in the books, or that it at least makes sense.

He did take a bite before she told him. If you pay attention to the scene, she brings him a pie that's missing a large slice. Walder is that eating that slice when she serves him a second portion. That's why he spits out the food after he finds the finger. He's already eaten some of his sons and he knows it.

[ShadowKitteh]

Arya = Servant

Servant ≠ Guest

Arya + Pie ≠ Plot Hole

[Neds Secret]

On 28 June 2016 at 1:58 AM, Lord Varys said:

It just sucks. I mean, she didn't even savor the moment. Walder didn't even eat his own sons. I mean, anyone doing a thing like that must have the mind and taste of Wyman Manderly. You have to enjoy the taste of the Frey meat yourself and you must enjoy watching others do it without realizing what they are eating (like Walda and Roose).

That is the fun of it. What the show did is just crap. Complete crap.

I agree, as are most plot endings portrayed in the show it was totally underwhelming and unbelievable, as was most of Aryas season 6 plot!

[hallam]

21 hours ago, FacelessManOf TheShire said:

Seriously? Who actually gives enough of a fuck to fill 10 pages?

People who are really angry that they didn't show cannibalism more explicitly.

Same folk who complained about not seeing the Waif getting the stabby-stabby on screen in an episode where heads were torn from their bodies on screen etc.

Some people just suck.

[brightflame princess]

2 hours ago, hallam said:

People who are really angry that they didn't show cannibalism more explicitly.

Same folk who complained about not seeing the Waif getting the stabby-stabby on screen in an episode where heads were torn from their bodies on screen etc.

Some people just suck.

No.. we just hate walder Freys character, and the frey pie thing was a good way to get back at him. The showrunners haven't done the best job making sense of things.

I think people who say other people suck are the ones who truly suck.

Why you gotta take it that direction? We're all just discussing a series that we love. Don't be a jerk.. It's unnecessary.

[hallam]

43 minutes ago, brightflame princess said:

No.. we just hate walder Freys character, and the frey pie thing was a good way to get back at him. The showrunners haven't done the best job making sense of things.

I think people who say other people suck are the ones who truly suck.

Why you gotta take it that direction? We're all just discussing a series that we love. Don't be a jerk.. It's unnecessary.

Don't you agree that demanding more sex, violence and explicit cannibalism in Game of Thrones of all shows would be sucky?

It seems that there was a Sister Unella eyeball gouging out scene planned and possibly shot but they stepped back as it was too much.

As for complaining about the Showrunners not spelling everything out for you, one of the reasons the show is so popular is that they don't. Often people are whining about not having something explained when the reason is rather obviously dramatic tension requires that some details be left out for now.

I remember when the Dr Who fans spent months complaining about a 'continuity error' in an episode that they discovered was actually 100% deliberate in the final episode. 

It is pretty obvious that killing the Freys would be difficult. The point is that Arya is now a very accomplished and capable assassin. So when the issue of her giving Cersei the stabby-stabby comes up next season it is going to be completely credible that she can.

From a political point of view, baking the sons into the pie and feeding it to Walder would have been as important as the assassination itself. The point was to send the message that no Frey is safe in Riverrun. They had better leave. It makes perfect sense for Arya to do what she is shown doing.

The books don't explain everything and they leave a lot more to the imagination. The fact that the showrunners decided not to spend any time on Arya's preparations for this assassination is a pretty good sign that we are going to see a great deal of her preparations for the assassination of Cersei.

[brightflame princess]

9 minutes ago, hallam said:

Don't you agree that demanding more sex, violence and explicit cannibalism in Game of Thrones of all shows would be sucky?

It seems that there was a Sister Unella eyeball gouging out scene planned and possibly shot but they stepped back as it was too much.

As for complaining about the Showrunners not spelling everything out for you, one of the reasons the show is so popular is that they don't. Often people are whining about not having something explained when the reason is rather obviously dramatic tension requires that some details be left out for now.

I remember when the Dr Who fans spent months complaining about a 'continuity error' in an episode that they discovered was actually 100% deliberate in the final episode. 

It is pretty obvious that killing the Freys would be difficult. The point is that Arya is now a very accomplished and capable assassin. So when the issue of her giving Cersei the stabby-stabby comes up next season it is going to be completely credible that she can.

From a political point of view, baking the sons into the pie and feeding it to Walder would have been as important as the assassination itself. The point was to send the message that no Frey is safe in Riverrun. They had better leave. It makes perfect sense for Arya to do what she is shown doing.

The books don't explain everything and they leave a lot more to the imagination. The fact that the showrunners decided not to spend any time on Arya's preparations for this assassination is a pretty good sign that we are going to see a great deal of her preparations for the assassination of Cersei.

I personally think it was just an easter egg for book readers, a nod in our direction. We already know she trained to be an assassin, we already know she is bloodthirsty and vengeful. She could have killed frey without the pie bit if they wanted to show that she is capable. 

They wanted to include the pies because it's a good bit from the books. And they just happened to do it in a way that didn't make much sense.. They do that a lot you know.

 

And the whole dr who thing.. that show is not based on books at all. They are free do to whatever the heck they want, they are creating it from scratch. The show runners for game of thrones are somewhat botching the source material that the entire show is based off of. The story makes perfect sense in the books, and in the show its very questionable at times. There are plenty of mistakes in the show that weren't deliberate and never come to fruition.

Btw.. I don't think any of us on the forum are really angry (as you said in a previous post) we just like to discuss the books and show that we love so much. 

And why do you think she is going to kill cersei? I think jaime will take her out, not arya. 

[hallam]

1 minute ago, brightflame princess said:

I personally think it was just an easter egg for book readers, a nod in our direction. We already know she trained to be an assassin, we already know she is bloodthirsty and vengeful. She could have killed frey without the pie bit if they wanted to show that she is capable. 

They wanted to include the pies because it's a good bit from the books. And they just happened to do it in a way that didn't make much sense.. They do that a lot you know.

 

And the whole dr who thing.. that show is not based on books at all. They are free do to whatever the heck they want, they are creating it from scratch. The show runners for game of thrones are somewhat botching the source material that the entire show is based off of. The story makes perfect sense in the books, and in the show its very questionable at times. There are plenty of mistakes in the show that weren't deliberate and never come to fruition.

Btw.. I don't think any of us on the forum are really angry (as you said in a previous post) we just like to discuss the books and show that we love so much. 

And why do you think she is going to kill cersei? I think jaime will take her out, not arya. 

I don't think the books are as good as the show to be honest. The books are very indulgent, the plots meander. The show is like a 2.0 version that has been cleaned up. Sansa's plot arc in the show makes her an important character. GRRM obviously can't stand her.

The books never say that the pies are made from Freys. It is strongly implied but it is never made explicit. The show has taken much the same route. I think it makes perfect sense for Arya to do it and she is obviously capable of doing it. The fact that it is hard is irrelevant.

I think it is obvious that Arya will kill Cersei because she has been saying she will kill Cersei every single night for 4 seasons. I think it is equally obvious that the prophecy is misleading because that is the convention. So the volonquar won't be Tyrion.

My current suspicion is that the volonquar is the hound and he will kill the mountain and then throttle Cersei to death. Or he will kill Cersei and then be killed by the Mountain. The Hound is the volonquar of the mountain so it fits the prophecy rather better. The hound has been defined by being the little brother.

I also expect that the Hound will meet up with Arya again and that he will kill Cersei to stop Arya killing the Queen.