Ambiguous Looks

[Lord Friendzone]

2 hours ago, Ranger Kragin said:

Have you noticed the moment? The North has started to remember and the North was pledging its allegiance to Jon. ALL of them except Littlefinger (the Vale). This is where she realises that now Jon has a treacherous enemy, a powerful too, who was critical in the Battle of the Bastards.

That's what her look means.

Sophie mentioned that this look lmeant that Littlefinger was maybe right and he is more trustworthy.

[Ranger Kragin]

Sansa also said that only a fool would trust Littlefinger. I trust her judgement more than Sophies' (who is paid not to reveal what is coming next)

[Ranger Kragin]

3 hours ago, The King Of Cooked Steak said:

Anyone notice before Lyanna Mormont says "I don't care if he's a bastard", Sansa is smiling, thinking she'll be declared Queen in the North, yet when Lady Mormont declares Jon the King, her smile instantly fades?

 

Her smile fades when she sees that everyone, literaly everyone, except Littlefinger is declaring Jon King in the North.

She knows that this will have consequences. And this is where her smile fades. Exactly when she meets LF's gaze.

[TheSmallOther]

On 2016-06-27 at 6:20 PM, Rumy Stark said:

Whelp, we get to wait a year so we've returned to the mega speculation zone. 

Among the things that will be heavy on my mind is the meaning of two particularly ambiguous looks between siblings and how that will play out.

First was Jaime's look as Cersei ascended the throne. He certainly didn't look happy, but how can he be when his son is dead? Was he displeased? Worried? Was that resignation? Shock?

Next was Sansa. We see her smiling as Jon is declared King in the North, but then her smile fades into ambiguity as she meets LF's gaze. What was that about?

I know I personally think for Jaime that was a "Well now you've done it, what the heck am I going to do?" look, and to me Sansa seemed worried when she was reminded that LF is among them and wants the Throne. But it was definitely left open to interpretation and I'm curious how others saw those looks. 

Well, how can Jaime be happy when he himself have killed Mad King for TRYING to burn the city? Now his beloved sister not just tried, but succeeded in burning.

When it comes to Sansa, I think she is well aware LF can cause a lot of trouble for Jon while reaching for his "pretty picture".

[ssls6]

I too noticed the two looks....

 

Jamie said earlier this season that for all Cerci's flaws, she loved her children.  I guess that was ringing in my ears so when I saw his look, all I could think of was "there is nothing to ground Cerci now...all hail the new Mad Queen"

 

Sansa was NOT smiling as the lords started to chant "King of the North".  She only smiled when she felt Jon's gaze upon her and held the smile looking back to the room.  That smile stopped when she caught LF's gaze.  I watched this several times wondering about her state of mind.  I do think LF got in her head.  As much as I hate the thought of conflict between them, it seems inevitable.

[Leila]

the look in Jaime 's eyes is from sadness. Cersei only knows the fire beneath baelor because Jaime must told her. She uses a information he gave to her. He felt responsable in certain away. I don't think he believes that her was able to do something so cruel to get to crown. And then still has tommen death. Jaime never saw cersei as she truly was, I think he sees her as her true self in that moment.

[brightflame princess]

On 6/27/2016 at 8:20 AM, Rumy Stark said:

 

Next was Sansa. We see her smiling as Jon is declared King in the North, but then her smile fades into ambiguity as she meets LF's gaze. What was that about?

 

To me, little finger was really unhappy, and I could see him scheming away on how to dispose of jon. Sansa on the other hand, to me at least, was thinking "I need to watch out for baelish, he doesn't like what is happening, and he is up to something."

I personally think sansa is on Jon's side. I think she is totally done with LF and his plans. Look what he got her into! She hates that guy, in my opinion.

[Thel]

On June 30, 2016 at 6:49 AM, ssls6 said:

I too noticed the two looks....

 

Jamie said earlier this season that for all Cerci's flaws, she loved her children.  I guess that was ringing in my ears so when I saw his look, all I could think of was "there is nothing to ground Cerci now...all hail the new Mad Queen"

Yep. And not only is she ungrounded---Cersei's actions in KL showed a total disregard for Tommen's emotional well-being. She kept him out of the wildfire but clearly cared more about vengeance and power than for her last remaining child. She basically killed Tommen. That's not love and that's not the Cersei Jaime knows---or at least not the one he's wanted to see. That was an ugly disillusioned grim sad (un)resolved Kingslayer look, for sure.

[Rubicante]

I read some bs about Sophie Turner saying how "Jon Snow isn't giving her the credit she deserves".  So although I initially thought that Sansa's look to Littlefinger initially meant she was worried Littlefinger would plot against them, I now think it's more about her feeling Littlefinger is right in someway.

What credit does Sansa deserve?  Bringing the Vale army in?  If she had done so earlier, then they could have approached Ramsay with a superior army and maybe could have negotiated for Rickon's release.  Some of the Northern Houses might have even turned against Ramsay knowing they were outnumbered. 

Sansa is an idiot for not telling Jon this.  Her character has been a complete disaster in the show since the beginning of season 5.  She's just a whiny know it all.  I actually hope she conspires with Littlefinger to take Jon down in season 7, are caught, and then the two of them are executed together.

[MoonKnight21]

On 30 June 2016 at 8:59 AM, The King Of Cooked Steak said:

Anyone notice before Lyanna Mormont says "I don't care if he's a bastard", Sansa is smiling, thinking she'll be declared Queen in the North, yet when Lady Mormont declares Jon the King, her smile instantly fades? And only when Jon gazes back at her she only smiles? Sansa looks like she's feigning happiness. If they are willing to go forth with Sansa becoming more of a mastermind, she might conspire against Jon. When and if R+L=J becomes somehow known to everyone, Sansa will convince the Northern lords to reject and exile Jon as a Targaryen abomination, and therefore, the exiled Jon will find refuge in his closest family member at the moment, Daenerys (This way also Dany could use Jon as a means to have a rightful claim to conquer the North). I don't see Sansa finding out that Jon is a Targaryen will sit well with her, especially how he is pretty much stealing her own rightful title. She's a trueborn Stark, born from Eddard and Catelyn, yet Jon is a Targaryen bastard born after Rhaegar raped (cause that's what Sansa and everyone else believe in Westeros) her aunt Lyanna. Why should he have rule of the North, when two trueborn children of Ned and Catelyn are known to be alive and well and one of them is a male no less (Jon knows about Bran from S4 after Sam told him)? There is surely a sibling rivalry brewing... or a cousin rivalry I guess. It wouldn't be as interesting if it was just Baelish plotting in the background and just Sansa always telling him to stop plotting. So, there's definitely something happening there. Sansa could become a sort of villain maybe? It would be very interesting, really and it sounds like something that would happen in the series. Maybe some Northern Civil War will happen where some lords support Jon and others support Sansa? That would be interesting as well. So, really anything could happen.

As for Cersei and Jaime, the valonqar (Jaime, born a minute after Cersei) will kill the Mad Queen as he did with the Mad King. It is known. The story pretty much writes itself, really. Unless D&D (or even GRRM) pull the rug from under us for some reason and have something else happen, it's the most logical way the story will go.

I have to agree with you, especially on the point about Sansa's reaction. I also noticed her smile as Lady Mormont says "we know no king...." Etc, a smile that CLEARLY faded after Lady Mormont declares Jon KitN. I posted it in another thread, but I was surprised to see that others hadn't noticed it (blindspot perhaps?). 

 

For me, LF's quip to Sansa in the godswood about Jon being a bastard and she being a trueborn Stark is not for nothing, I believe they are building up for some serious sibling rivalry in season 7, maybe not a Northern Civil war as there are so few episodes left, but maybr something more sneaky and underhand. 

 

Sophie Turner also did mention that there will be sibling rivalry, and if you watch the post show analysis with the director and D&D, they also hinted that Sansa could be out of ease with Jon declared as KitN. 

[MoonKnight21]

2 hours ago, brightflame princess said:

To me, little finger was really unhappy, and I could see him scheming away on how to dispose of jon. Sansa on the other hand, to me at least, was thinking "I need to watch out for baelish, he doesn't like what is happening, and he is up to something."

I personally think sansa is on Jon's side. I think she is totally done with LF and his plans. Look what he got her into! She hates that guy, in my opinion.

Being done with LF doesnt imply that she's done with her ambitions. 

Also, after having told LF that she's "done with him" and still needing to call him for help in the form of the Knights of the Vale, certainly doesnt indicate that shes done with him. 

If anything she knows how to read him better and not be manipulated, but that doesnt mean she wont work with him to get where she wants to be. She's just more educated now.

 

 

 

[Nymeria's pack]

Jon offered her Winterfell, he said she had a better claim because she was the trueborn Stark. She didn't take Winterfell, she isn't about to get mad because Jon is proclaimed KITN.  That look was her being one of the only two people in the room who know how much danger Jon is in now - LF will see him as a player in the Game, and LF removes players from the Game. 

Not only has Jaime seen Cersei do what the Mad King was trying to do, he has seen that she wastes no time at all taking advantage of Tommen's death to grab the throne.  Jaime fully believed that Cersei loved her children - he even emphasised to Edmure how strong and amazing that love was. I thought at the time it was kind of sickly dialogue but now I recognise it as a hint that Cersei's 'love' would not be all it was cracked up to be. That look was grim. 

[Davos Dayne]

5 hours ago, Nerevanin said:

That's a lot of guessing and details without anything to actually rely on imo. I can't even them if you are sarcastic or not. But hoping that, I want to clarify a few things:

1) Euron wants to marry Daenerys, why would he ask Doran for Arianne atm? The only possibility is later, like a lot later, when Euron finds out that Victarion failed to kidnap Dany or something like that.

 

The same reason why he will Propose to Cersei for Economical gain and when hes done with Cersei/Arrianne he will kill her and marry Danereas

[DJE]

I saw Sansa's look as fear as to what LF was going to do, she was smiling when the Lords proclaimed Jon KITN. I think Jaime is worried/pissed, he will be the valonqar who kills Cersei.

[brightflame princess]

10 hours ago, MoonKnight21 said:

Being done with LF doesnt imply that she's done with her ambitions. 

Also, after having told LF that she's "done with him" and still needing to call him for help in the form of the Knights of the Vale, certainly doesnt indicate that shes done with him. 

If anything she knows how to read him better and not be manipulated, but that doesnt mean she wont work with him to get where she wants to be. She's just more educated now.

 

 

 

You could be right, but in my opinion she is tired of the game, and just happy to have some family back. All the rest were lost, I just don't see her turning on her only living (as far as she knows) family member.

Then again, they have admitted that sansas character is well liked, so they try to keep her active in the show. They might just have her do some thing crazy just to keep fans happy.. but I'd like to think not. I seriously can't wait for the last two books. The show is not nearly as good as the books, for good reason. Books have room for more detail.

You really think she is so ambitious? I think she wanted to be the queen, and it ended horribly. I think she is done being overly ambitious.. preserve house stark, that's her only goal in my opinion. 

[brightflame princess]

On 6/30/2016 at 3:07 AM, Ranger Kragin said:

Sansa also said that only a fool would trust Littlefinger. I trust her judgement more than Sophies' (who is paid not to reveal what is coming next)

Yes! Thank you. Kit told us he wouldn't even be in season 6.. That was a huge lie. seriously guys come on. You can't trust what Sophie says.. 

[King Jon Snow Stark]

1 hour ago, brightflame princess said:

You could be right, but in my opinion she is tired of the game, and just happy to have some family back. All the rest were lost, I just don't see her turning on her only living (as far as she knows) family member.

Then again, they have admitted that sansas character is well liked, so they try to keep her active in the show. They might just have her do some thing crazy just to keep fans happy.. but I'd like to think not. I seriously can't wait for the last two books. The show is not nearly as good as the books, for good reason. Books have room for more detail.

You really think she is so ambitious? I think she wanted to be the queen, and it ended horribly. I think she is done being overly ambitious.. preserve house stark, that's her only goal in my opinion. 

How can they preserve House Stark? Jon is a Snow. If she marries again who would she marry? There are no Stark cousins. As far as they know the house died with Rickon. So unless Jon takes the name or Bran has children House Stark is died. 

[MoonKnight21]

7 minutes ago, captaindargo said:

How can they preserve House Stark? Jon is a Snow. If she marries again who would she marry? There are no Stark cousins. As far as they know the house died with Rickon. So unless Jon takes the name or Bran has children House Stark is died. 

This I have to agree with. As much as Sansa is a Ned Starks trueborn daughter and its 100% Stark, she is likely to wed some nobleman and bear children who take his name and house and customs. Its sad to say, but house Stark is dead. 

[ToTheWolves]

Sorry if it's already mentioned, but in the inside the episode Sophie,D&D all pretty much say Sansa felt some sort of negative way about Jon being declared king in the north(I forget the exact words they used). They also say the look is setting up events for next season. 

[The King Of Cooked Steak]

On ‎6‎/‎30‎/‎2016 at 1:14 PM, Ranger Kragin said:

 

Her smile fades when she sees that everyone, literaly everyone, except Littlefinger is declaring Jon King in the North.

She knows that this will have consequences. And this is where her smile fades. Exactly when she meets LF's gaze.

Not quite. Watch again. As soon as Lyanna Mormont declares Jon KITN, she stops smiling, like she was expecting herself to be declared Queen. That's before all the lords start declaring for Jon and she stares at Baelish.

This interview with Sophie Turner might give some insight.