MoonKnight21

Tyrion + Sansa potentially Reunite

162 posts in this topic

All I got to say is that if you're thinking about gettin aboard the Tyrion/Sansa ship, I hope you did well on your last swim qualification. LOL.

Edited by OldGimletEye

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50 minutes ago, Le Cygne said:

This is not a love story, that's for sure. It's not even a like story, it's a, well, as enemies go, he wasn't the worst (kinder than Joffrey!) story. She's polite, but I bet she gets less polite at some point.

There nothing on her side at all, she so clearly doesn't want him, that's such an easy case to make. But he doesn't want her, either, beyond momentary lust. Show, they threw the marriage out.

This is not a man who loves a woman:

Also calls her false, another no no in a romance:

And there's more, he says the only part of him that wants her is his penis:

There's nothing on his side, either.

Agreed. It's not even a "friends" story. Other than Tyrion getting a hard on for her, there's abolutely nothing between them. Not from her, not from him. They can barely have a conversation about mundane topics such as peas or the weather. The whole marriage is a sham, for the both of them. There's only mysery and boredom for either of them, and they're enemies on top of that. And with Dany coming to Westeros with Iroborn and Dothraki horde and weapons of mass destruction and a vindictive Tyrion, I don't see that "enemy" story end soon.

As for the part that wants her - his penis: it's nothing a whore can't fix for him. Not that I begrudge Tyrion a loving wife with whom he has an actual understanding. I wish he could find such a wife. It's just clear that it's not going to be Sansa he could have an inspirational relationship with. They certainly are not two peas in a Pod (pun intended)

Edited by sweetsunray

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2 hours ago, Elisabetta Duò said:

Same, there's so much meat before we get there (the show is so much ahead of the books).

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Unless TWOW is a two-volumes books (actually both of them might be). I can't wait for it to come out - I hope it will be in autumn / in time for Christmas or at the most before the next GOT seson, but I'm concerned about ADOS, I hope it won't take him 7 years. AGOT, AKOK and the two volumes of ASOS are my fave books of his. I hope TWOW and ADOS will be as good as it.

 

Man, please no! Four more books are too much! I'm too hoping we get TWOW until the end of the year. I also have this fantastic unrealistic hope that he's been writing most of the ADOS with TWOW and it will be released no longer than 2 years after we get book 6. Oh well, one can only hope.

30 minutes ago, OldGimletEye said:

All I got to say is that if you're thinking about gettin aboard the Tyrion/Sansa ship, I hope you did well on your last swim qualification. LOL.

I won't be devastated if if doesn't happen, maybe there's someone else better for her that we haven't been introduced to yet and I'm okay with that. I just see now that maybe they would be a good fit and it seem plausible that they would be together again, maybe for the sake of alliances.

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The funny thing is if you think of it from Tyrion's perspective Sansa is not a good match.  He needs to find someone like Tysha,  you know someone who loves him for himself.  That is what made him happy that is what he is seeking, he aint getting that from Sansa

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7 minutes ago, SerMixalot said:

The funny thing is if you think of it from Tyrion's perspective Sansa is not a good match.  He needs to find someone like Tysha,  you know someone who loves him for himself.  That is what made him happy that is what he is seeking, he aint getting that from Sansa

That's a good point. Sansa isn't a good personal fit for Tyrion (especially in the books) and Tyrion is not the honorable knight (knight reformed?) that Sansa will want. If you were able to ask Sansa what she wants, I'm sure a drunken, sex slave raping Lannister is not on her list. What she wants matters, too. 

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15 hours ago, Lady Lyanna Mormont said:

Man, please no! Four more books are too much! I'm too hoping we get TWOW until the end of the year. I also have this fantastic unrealistic hope that he's been writing most of the ADOS with TWOW and it will be released no longer than 2 years after we get book 6. Oh well, one can only hope.

16 hours ago, OldGimletEye said:

That would be amazing. I doubt it will happen, but I could do with 3 (like the year following the last Got season?) xd

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Okay, I do like this pairing and normally I get a lot of sarcasm and negative comments about it so I won't go into why I think they could work out.  Still I don't think George got them married for no reason.  I think there are unfinished business there which I don't think revolve exclusively around whether they are a match made in heaven or hell but there is are things I suspect they still need to do together, although as always I could be getting it all wrong.

Firstly I think they are kind of destined to take down Littlefinger.  For them both to realise just the absolute extent of LF's involvement in both their misfortunes they need to get together and compare notes.  Although Sansa seems to have wisen up to Littlefinger's tricks, she still doesn't know his involvement in Ned's demise.  Equally Tyrion doesn't yet know he was him who organised the hairnet situation and spirited Sansa away from him and Kingslanding at the "right moment" so they both looked as guilty as hell.  He probably suspects it though but I think, even if off screen, this conversation between the estranged couple has to take place.  This of course, doesn't mean they will stay together but yes they will meet and interact imho.  On this note I don't think they are going to just go and stab him or something though, I think they will use blackmail him somehow.  In the books he is accumulating food supplies so I guess these two are going to take care of that...

Secondly, well, what gave me the impression that they might decide to stay married is that Tyrion appears to be of the mind of securing alliances this way and well, he doesn't have to do anything himself since they are already married.  Now, were Sansa to tell him it wants it annulled I don't think he would object.  He could try to persuade her of the political advantages but I don't think he would go beyond that.  However, this is the perfect opportunity to end the story with the two houses reunited.

Okay a lot of people think that he is just too dark and screwed to be marriage material or for her to even consider it.  Well, as it has been quoted earlier in this thread she does think about him from time to time and not in a terrible light.  Okay she doesn't know all his antics when he was sort of having a nervous breakdown, maybe she never will.  To be honest he did annoy me a fair bit in the last book and, although he is my favourite character I almost would have begged George to kill him off rather than leave him in that state but that was not his usual way.  Okay, yes he drinks and he likes sex but he was never angry and deranged like that before and by the end of the book he appears much more on the mend...  Okay, granted I know a lot of people find this character really, really questionable and he is no saint show or not show but I personally think that his good qualities could win her over to him, hence ending up like it has been suggested in a bit of an Henry VII - Elizabeth of York situation.  Now, if they do stay together and they become very fond of each other I do fear for one or the other I have to say...  It has crossed my mind that either, he will die at the very, very end (probably with Jon and Dany too and the dragons lol) and she will be pretty devastated and refuse to remarry or something or that ilk or history will repeat itself and he survives and she dies in childbirth (crackpot theory I know...) hence he ends up in the same situation as his father at the time of his birth.  The challenge then would be (but the series would be over before we would know of course) to avoid even turning into his father or drinking himself to death and neglecting his child/ren...  Either death would fulfill the bitter-sweet ending we have been promised...

I think this union is meant to go somewhere because although there is romance in this series and we are shown the characters emotions and desires, the main plot concerns the political aspects and I believe the unions that the main characters are in at the end of the series will aid the political plot.

Again just my two cents though...

 

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As long as Baelish lives it won't happen. I can't speak for the books but in the show Sansa loves Baelish. At the moment it's like she won't even care if someone reveals what Baelish did since the begining of the story. She'll find an excuse for him. She knows he's a psycho, he murdered two innocent people in front of her, he admitted killing Joffrey only because of his interests, he sold her like a whore to be tortured and raped and told her he wants everything there is. She definetely knows he can't be trusted yet she barely holds herself from kissing him and that would be the third time on screen.

If any decent woman was in place of Sansa, she would have murdered LF in his sleep already.

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6 hours ago, permaximum said:

As long as Baelish lives it won't happen. I can't speak for the books but in the show Sansa loves Baelish. At the moment it's like she won't even care if someone reveals what Baelish did since the begining of the story. She'll find an excuse for him. She knows he's a psycho, he murdered two innocent people in front of her, he admitted killing Joffrey only because of his interests, he sold her like a whore to be tortured and raped and told her he wants everything there is. She definetely knows he can't be trusted yet she barely holds herself from kissing him and that would be the third time on screen.

If any decent woman was in place of Sansa, she would have murdered LF in his sleep already.

Okay, it could be me who is wrong but I think in both books and show she has waken up a fair bit.  You kind of describe it as if despite her knowing what he is she feels this almost "fatal attraction" and if not attraction then inability to detach herself from him.  It is almost as if we have been watching different shows.  I wonder what other people's opinions are on this.  To me it was clear that she will accept his help if there is no other option.  She did confront him at the beginning of the series and then at the end she left him there with this "dreams."  Yes, she took his help but hey she was just being pragmatic IMHO.  As for the books, although she is not yet kicking ass as in the show, there is one moment when she LF tells her about the Purple Wedding and his involvement when she thinks something on the lines of "had she escaped the Lannisters to fall into worse..."  I am with the ones who think that she will be instrumental in his demise, willingly but that she will do it cleverly and will manipulate him in the end.  I don't predict she will be heading for the sword or throwing him in a dark cell any time soon because I think she will use the knowledge she has on him to her advantage first...

In fact, in my opinion she lied to Jon about having written to LF asking for help purely because he would have stopped her and, although I don't see Jon as a patronising character per se, yes patronised her and reminded her oh how he is this and that (LF)...  She couldn't let their lesser numbers be their downfall so to me she is now someone that if she has to get into bed (not necessarily literally) with the devil to achieve what she thinks is just she will.  This to me prove that she has become rather cerebral, Jon not so much so though, which is a very different picture from her still harboring positive feelings towards him but we shall see...

Even if she were to marry him, as some predict, still it wouldn't be because she is unable to resist his charms, or her affection for him is too great, it would be a maneuver on her part, but then again, this just proves how the same scenes can be interpreted so different by different viewers.  Why do you guys in general think? 

 

Edited by Morgana Lannister
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19 hours ago, Morgana Lannister said:

Okay, I do like this pairing and normally I get a lot of sarcasm and negative comments about it so I won't go into why I think they could work out.  Still I don't think George got them married for no reason.  I think there are unfinished business there which I don't think revolve exclusively around whether they are a match made in heaven or hell but there is are things I suspect they still need to do together, although as always I could be getting it all wrong.

Firstly I think they are kind of destined to take down Littlefinger.  For them both to realise just the absolute extent of LF's involvement in both their misfortunes they need to get together and compare notes.  Although Sansa seems to have wisen up to Littlefinger's tricks, she still doesn't know his involvement in Ned's demise.  Equally Tyrion doesn't yet know he was him who organised the hairnet situation and spirited Sansa away from him and Kingslanding at the "right moment" so they both looked as guilty as hell.  He probably suspects it though but I think, even if off screen, this conversation between the estranged couple has to take place.  This of course, doesn't mean they will stay together but yes they will meet and interact imho.  On this note I don't think they are going to just go and stab him or something though, I think they will use blackmail him somehow.  In the books he is accumulating food supplies so I guess these two are going to take care of that...

Secondly, well, what gave me the impression that they might decide to stay married is that Tyrion appears to be of the mind of securing alliances this way and well, he doesn't have to do anything himself since they are already married.  Now, were Sansa to tell him it wants it annulled I don't think he would object.  He could try to persuade her of the political advantages but I don't think he would go beyond that.  However, this is the perfect opportunity to end the story with the two houses reunited.

Okay a lot of people think that he is just too dark and screwed to be marriage material or for her to even consider it.  Well, as it has been quoted earlier in this thread she does think about him from time to time and not in a terrible light.  Okay she doesn't know all his antics when he was sort of having a nervous breakdown, maybe she never will.  To be honest he did annoy me a fair bit in the last book and, although he is my favourite character I almost would have begged George to kill him off rather than leave him in that state but that was not his usual way.  Okay, yes he drinks and he likes sex but he was never angry and deranged like that before and by the end of the book he appears much more on the mend...  Okay, granted I know a lot of people find this character really, really questionable and he is no saint show or not show but I personally think that his good qualities could win her over to him, hence ending up like it has been suggested in a bit of an Henry VII - Elizabeth of York situation.  Now, if they do stay together and they become very fond of each other I do fear for one or the other I have to say...  It has crossed my mind that either, he will die at the very, very end (probably with Jon and Dany too and the dragons lol) and she will be pretty devastated and refuse to remarry or something or that ilk or history will repeat itself and he survives and she dies in childbirth (crackpot theory I know...) hence he ends up in the same situation as his father at the time of his birth.  The challenge then would be (but the series would be over before we would know of course) to avoid even turning into his father or drinking himself to death and neglecting his child/ren...  Either death would fulfill the bitter-sweet ending we have been promised...

I think this union is meant to go somewhere because although there is romance in this series and we are shown the characters emotions and desires, the main plot concerns the political aspects and I believe the unions that the main characters are in at the end of the series will aid the political plot.

Again just my two cents though...

 

I've always thought she would be LF's demise, I never considered it was something they would do togehter... I should think about it, thanks for the imput.

I've read somewhere (I don't remember where... I wish I could find it) that GRRM said it will take Tyrion at least half TWOW in order to decide he actually wants to live ... so I expect him to be in a bad state of mind for a while. I guess it's kinda realistic, in that situation you don't recover in a snap of fingers.

Spoiler

In the show, it was meeting Daenerys and she valuing him to give him a purpose, I expet the books to be more complex but we'll see.

I can see him dying at the very end too... I would prefer him to survive but the author does as he likes. if he dies, i hope his arch will be satisfactory at least.

Definitely there is some unfinished business with Sansa and him, I've already said why I think there might be potential for them to be allies/partners but whatever is the road GRRM choses for them (positive or negative) he has to close that circle.

 

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52 minutes ago, Elisabetta Duò said:

I've always thought she would be LF's demise, I never considered it was something they would do togehter... I should think about it, thanks for the imput.

I've read somewhere (I don't remember where... I wish I could find it) that GRRM said it will take Tyrion at least half TWOW in order to decide he actually wants to live ... so I expect him to be in a bad state of mind for a while. I guess it's kinda realistic, in that situation you don't recover in a snap of fingers.

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In the show, it was meeting Daenerys and she valuing him to give him a purpose, I expet the books to be more complex but we'll see.

I can see him dying at the very end too... I would prefer him to survive but the author does as he likes. if he dies, i hope his arch will be satisfactory at least.

Definitely there is some unfinished business with Sansa and him, I've already said why I think there might be potential for them to be allies/partners but whatever is the road GRRM choses for them (positive or negative) he has to close that circle.

 

Well, I just thought between them they can complete the puzzle and I really look forward to that moment.  I really hope it happens and that it is not as simple as having LF killed that they manipulate him to the heavens first... lol a bit sadistic, I know ;)

As for Tyrion yes, had he just bounced back and acted reasonably we would have people complaining, and rightly so, that it was a bit like Arya recovering from her stab wounds in this series lol and personally I think that emotional wounds such as that are harder to heal.  Not only he has killed his father and lover, no matter what they did to him, but he was twice sentenced to die for crimes he had not committed etc.  I don't think anyone would come out of something like this too well.  However, I think he already have signs of him improving in the books.  He dreamed about Jaime and one part of him did not want him to die at all etc.  You can screw someone really badly but I think he has enough good in him and strength to bounce back at least a fair bit...

lol if either of them die I will be in tears, although it would make literary sense but yeah this is George... and not all can be good...  Can't wait to see how it all pans out...

Edited by Morgana Lannister

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On 2. Juli 2016 at 6:23 AM, The Fattest Leech said:

That's a good point. Sansa isn't a good personal fit for Tyrion (especially in the books) and Tyrion is not the honorable knight (knight reformed?) that Sansa will want. If you were able to ask Sansa what she wants, I'm sure a drunken, sex slave raping Lannister is not on her list. What she wants matters, too. 

People hardly get what they want in these books or series. If they are lucky though they might end with their second or third best option.

The Selhoris slave prostitute was certainly meant to give us the lowest point of Tyrion's arc and to show us how much he was disgusted by himself.  This would have been an important element of his character description in the show as well, in order to build up his character again and Dinklage would have been the actor to give us the whole complexity of Tyrion's character.

Only this part was never in the show, only the fact that Tyrion is an alcoholic.

And so it does not matter if  show Sansa would ever want a "sex slave raping" Tyrion since there is no such Tyrion  in the show.

And in the books - how could Sansa ever know about that dark scene if Tyrion is not the one who tells her himself about his worst moments? There would be talk about far more awful things he did, for whatever reason.  They would have to talk about, for example, how it feels to napalm a whole enemy fleet, to kill one's own father. And if Sansa and Tyrion ever arrive to tell each other their worst secrets then they would have come very close to trust and friendship already.

So that disgusting Selhoris scene is a zero argument when it comes to Sansa's opinion of Tyrion.

Edited by Woman of War

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23 minutes ago, Woman of War said:

People hardly get what they want in these books or series. If they are lucky though they might end with their second or third best option.

The Selhoris slave prostitute was certainly meant to give us the lowest point of Tyrion's arc and to show us how much he was disgusted by himself.  This would have been an important element of his character description in the show as well, in order to build up his character again and Dinklage would have been the actor to give us the whole complexity of Tyrion's character.

Only this part was never in the show, only the fact that Tyrion is an alcoholic.

And so it does not matter if  show Sansa would ever want a "sex slave raping" Tyrion since there is no such Tyrion  in the show.

And in the books - how could Sansa ever know about that dark scene if Tyrion is not the one who tells her himself about his worst moments? There would be talk about far more awful things he did, for whatever reason.  They would have to talk about, for example, how it feels to napalm a whole enemy fleet, to kill one's own father. And if Sansa and Tyrion ever arrive to tell each other their worst secrets then they would have come very close to trust and friendship already.

So that disgusting Selhoris scene is a zero argument when it comes to Sansa's opinion of Tyrion.

I agree. The show did, in fact, raise Tyrion up onto a mighty  pedestal and left out any greyness that each character should have. Instead, tv Tyrion gives alms to the poor, nods his head approvingly when Dany asks for guidance, and gives puppy dog eyes when Dany mysteriously and suddenly has no feelings for Daario- the man who helped give her what she wanted on a silver platter. 

But since others on this thread were criss-crossing book to tv info to make their points, I engaged in the conversation the same way. If that is a problem, please police them as well and I will support that. 

I am sure you are familiar the phrase "actions speak louder than words"? Well, Tyrion doesn't have to literally tell Sansa all of his past deeds because if it's in his constitution to have singers made into stew, strangle his girlfriend, kill his father, rape a slave girl, and hide poison mushrooms away for a future date, then those actions will come back to the surface in some way in the future. And who is to say that Tyrion wouldn't blab to Sansa what he did during a drunken stupor? 

Im sure the fact that they were married in the first place has a subplot in the future, but I highly doubt it is a union for romance or politics.

Who knows, the annulment could be done without Tyrion and he snaps and tries to kill Sansa because he decides "whores go to the Vale". 

Add: this would actually confirm your point how characters hardly get what they want. Tyrion wants Winterfell but loses it. 

Edited by The Fattest Leech

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4 hours ago, Morgana Lannister said:

Well, I just thought between them they can complete the puzzle and I really look forward to that moment.  I really hope it happens and that it is not as simple as having LF killed that they manipulate him to the heavens first... lol a bit sadistic, I know ;)

As for Tyrion yes, had he just bounced back and acted reasonably we would have people complaining, and rightly so, that it was a bit like Arya recovering from her stab wounds in this series lol and personally I think that emotional wounds such as that are harder to heal.  Not only he has killed his father and lover, no matter what they did to him, but he was twice sentenced to die for crimes he had not committed etc.  I don't think anyone would come out of something like this too well.  However, I think he already have signs of him improving in the books.  He dreamed about Jaime and one part of him did not want him to die at all etc.  You can screw someone really badly but I think he has enough good in him and strength to bounce back at least a fair bit...

lol if either of them die I will be in tears, although it would make literary sense but yeah this is George... and not all can be good...  Can't wait to see how it all pans out...

I agree, that Arya part was terrible (and  she's a character I like, so…) and also I found disappointing Tyrion's storyline in S6 and the way the approached Jon post-death. I think resurrecting should leave deeper scars, I'm sure in the books it will. They truly changed a lot of stuff in the tv show and cut a lot of 'greyness' .. they santified Shae, making it look as if she was in love with Tyrion when in the books she's not, just to make the watchers 'feel' her death more, they cut off all the part where Tyrion was a sucicidal mess, they made Jamie less grey (left out Tysha hence Jamie is still the perfect big brother, the perfect lover to Cersei till the day she gets mad, the honorable platonic lover of Brienne, etc.), they made the hound way less violent and messed up, they made Daenerys less deluded than she in the books, Theon comes out as a more sympathetic character than in the books as well, Littlefinger is less subtle than in the books, Sansa' story has been changed a lot, Catelyn didn't push Ned to accept his porition as Hand as she did in the books, etc. .. the only character who truly stayed the same is poor Ned, xd. I am annoyed by occasional bad writing but as for the rest, I don't really mind, because it's a great tv show and still a tv show.. and tv shows have their own rules and we know those rules in advance. I can enjoy both the books and the show. I even watched some Brienne/Jamie and Sansa/Tyrion on YT (that was my lowest point, I know). At times, the tw show, tho partly different from the books, is even useful to adjust our theories: for example, I had been convinced Tyrion would ride Viserion. Now, after the last GoT season, I think I was probably mistaken and he might ride Rhaegal instead.

I tend to think Sansa will be ok. It seems GRRM completely changed her outline, so I can see her surviving (you never know with GRRM but you see what I mean). Tyrion is my fave character but I'm kinda prepared for the worst, I'm used to see them die (JKR killed both my faves -.-)

 

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3 minutes ago, Elisabetta Duò said:

I agree, that Arya part was terrible (and  she's a character I like, so…) and also I found disappointing Tyrion's storyline in S6 and the way the approached Jon post-death. I think resurrecting should leave deeper scars, I'm sure in the books it will. They truly changed a lot of stuff in the tv show and cut a lot of 'greyness' .. they santified Shae, making it look as if she was in love with Tyrion when in the books she's not, just to make the watchers 'feel' her death more, they cut off all the part where Tyrion was a sucicidal mess, they made Jamie less grey (left out Tysha hence Jamie is still the perfect big brother, the perfect lover to Cersei till the day she gets mad, the honorable platonic lover of Brienne, etc.), they made the hound way less violent and messed up, they made Daenerys less deluded than she in the books, Theon comes out as a more sympathetic character than in the books as well, Littlefinger is less subtle than in the books, Sansa' story has been changed a lot, Catelyn didn't push Ned to accept his porition as Hand as she did in the books, etc. .. the only character who truly stayed the same is poor Ned, xd. I am annoyed by occasional bad writing but as for the rest, I don't really mind, because it's a great tv show and still a tv show.. and tv shows have their own rules and we know those rules in advance. I can enjoy both the books and the show. I even watched some Brienne/Jamie and Sansa/Tyrion on YT (that was my lowest point, I know). At times, the tw show, tho partly different from the books, is even useful to adjust our theories: for example, I had been convinced Tyrion would ride Viserion. Now, after the last GoT season, I think I was probably mistaken and he might ride Rhaegal instead.

I tend to think Sansa will be ok. It seems GRRM completely changed her outline, so I can see her surviving (you never know with GRRM but you see what I mean). Tyrion is my fave character but I'm kinda prepared for the worst, I'm used to see them die (JKR killed both my faves -.-)

 

lol we seem to be kindred spirits; seem to root for the same characters and have the same impression regarding the show as in, oh well they cannot have as much detail as the books and we are still glad to have the show lol  I try to enjoy the show best I can and not complain too much but the Arya recovery got me.  Jon, I agree also that he should be more changed but there is still time I guess...  One of the great, but nerve wrecking things about this series is than noone is safe.  With Tyrion/Sansa I really wouldn't like to bet on one or the other but I will be very surprised if they both do survive (especially if they are properly together).  Same goes for Jaime/Brienne (and yeah, I ship those too).  I know a lot of people here are against "ships" but oh, hell, it's all a bit of fun.  To me, at the end of the day books and tv shows are meant to entertain, still analyzing things is fun too but of course there are characters that probably due to being very central seem to attract a lot of love and hate and little in between and Tyrion and Dany are the best examples I think, Jon to an extent also.  Now in HP, just curiosity, which ones were your favourites?  I was insanely in love with Harry but my prediction was that he would die because it would be good from a literary point of view but I was glad he didn't... so maybe I get Tyrion and Sansa to survive after all... but I think the ending of ASOIAF is going to be worse than the one in HP.  The dragons are gonners for sure I fear...

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For me the plot reason why George had Sansa married to Tyrion and has made it impossible as of yet to annul the marriage is because it was unrealistic to have her unwed after she had menstruated, and yet needed her to remain a virgin - aka a man she won't ever fall in love with and will never desire, a man who is decent enough not to rape the girl he thinks he'll be married to for the rest of his life, a man high enough in status to prevent Joffrey from ordering her into his own bed as his mistress. He couldn't have her married to a monster like Joffrey, nor a young man she could relate to and grow to care for. He could have chosen Lancel who was too badly hurt to function, but Lancel was so out of it and politically weak he could not prevent Joffrey from raping her after the marriage. So, she'll remain officially married to Tyrion for as long as is needed to preserve her virgin status... Meanwhile she has gotten a new identity as Alayne to experiment and discover who and what she wants, without compromizing her status. And imo a writer doesn't do that unless he intends that arc to give the girl what she really really wants.

As for Tyrion helping to take LF down... in the books he inherently already did - he armed the mountain clans of the Vale, and I expect them to raise hell in the Vale soon. George loves his domino effects.

Edited by sweetsunray

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28 minutes ago, Morgana Lannister said:

lol we seem to be kindred spirits; seem to root for the same characters and have the same impression regarding the show as in, oh well they cannot have as much detail as the books and we are still glad to have the show lol  I try to enjoy the show best I can and not complain too much but the Arya recovery got me.  Jon, I agree also that he should be more changed but there is still time I guess...  One of the great, but nerve wrecking things about this series is than noone is safe.  With Tyrion/Sansa I really wouldn't like to bet on one or the other but I will be very surprised if they both do survive (especially if they are properly together).  Same goes for Jaime/Brienne (and yeah, I ship those too).  I know a lot of people here are against "ships" but oh, hell, it's all a bit of fun.  To me, at the end of the day books and tv shows are meant to entertain, still analyzing things is fun too but of course there are characters that probably due to being very central seem to attract a lot of love and hate and little in between and Tyrion and Dany are the best examples I think, Jon to an extent also.  Now in HP, just curiosity, which ones were your favourites?  I was insanely in love with Harry but my prediction was that he would die because it would be good from a literary point of view but I was glad he didn't... so maybe I get Tyrion and Sansa to survive after all... but I think the ending of ASOIAF is going to be worse than the one in HP.  The dragons are gonners for sure I fear...

Same, it will be worse.

Spoiler

Well about HP this is an highly unpopular opinion, so I don't expect people to share my preference about my 2 fave characters, actually I've noticed that people who like one of them usually hate the other… so I've always been one for antiheroes and for grey, tridimentional characters.. and for the ones who do what nobody would lke to do but 'has' to be done… wit and bravery complete the picture… so as I started reading, I immediately fell for Snape (never believed he was on Voldemort's side) and Dumbledore; consider I've read the books as an adult, I started them when I was like 22 so I guess identified more easily with the professors than with the students and probably I read between the lines more than a kid could. Other characters I like are Hermione and Luna, amongst many others. Before Dumbledore died, I thought he would die in book 7 and Snape would survive. After his death, I understood Snape would die as well. Well actually JKR killed off all the marauders generation, so that the 'new' generation could take its place. As for the trio, I thought Ron might die, I didin't think Harry would die because I went like "remember it was originally meant for kids". I still think it's irrealistic that all the three of them survived.

 

Edited by Elisabetta Duò

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Sansa is lucky to have survived it all. And as a virgin. It's deep plot armor on Sansa's part. It makes her first sexual experience all the more powerful. Which is why I think it WILL be all the more powerful. I don't think GRRM 'protected' her from the possibility of a negative encounter to turn around and have her experience a negative encounter later on. I think it will be, more or less, positive (what first time is ever truly ecstatic, right?) That she will marry, for real, and have children, I think that's pretty much a given. She's the Stark-blooded momma in the current story. 

Littlefinger and the Harry plot and all that, that's actually Sansa's 'side' story, the learning curve story. That she will ultimately return to Sansa's story, and not live out Alayne's side-story, seems evident. Littlefinger and Harry represent an inverted, perverted Ned and Joffrey from her real story. But the characters from her 'real' story matter. And Tyrion might come into it as a hurdle or a means to an end later on. But I think of Sansa as the 'songs and stories girl.' That she would get her own song and story seems a given to me. And no, it won’t be a fairytale kind of story, GRRM has shown that by his repeated use of the device that what the singers sing and storytellers write is far from the actual truth. However, for Sansa, who likes the kissing stories best and those of knightly valor, she for whom the Tourney of the Hand was the dreamiest days in her life - who is the knight, the one that will be memorable, the one with the nick just like all those knights from her stories? Sandor, the Hound. And a Hound. From the moment his 'handle' was referenced, what with all the sigils representing important elements of the story, it seemed he'd go with the wolves better than the lions (and my thought was played out by the Hound, no less, in ASoS). It all adds up. In the end, from plot, characterization, story elements, action, conflict and resolution viewpoint, this ‘song and story’ is playing out across the novels. It is the central story element catering to romance that this series has. 

That cannot, of course, be said for Tyrion and Sansa.

Edited by Karmarni

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On June 28, 2016 at 0:24 PM, Elisabetta Duò said:

  2) See GRRM nodding here when Sophie Turner says she wishes for Tyrion+Sansa to be reunited and become a power couple in Westeros:

Unless he changed his mind (I don't think it was misdirection, it was just the smallest thing).

That was a nod? More like a barely noticeable movement of his head that could mean anything, really. 

"Unless he changed his mind..."

Um...changed his mind about what? A small body movement that may or may not have been a nod?  He didn't say anything, so there is nothing to "change his mind" about. Do you know any GRRM interviews where he talks about Tyrion/Sansa as a romance?  A quote from that would have been a much better thing to post. This means nothing.

On June 30, 2016 at 9:10 PM, sweetsunray said:

If you were to argue - he doesn't abuse his position, I could agree with that. He's not a monster to her. But not being cruel to someone is not the same thing as being kind. The fact that Sansa starts to consider his lack of cruelty to her as kindness actually reveals she's suffering from abuse trauma. It's the same thing as an abuse victim thinking the abuser is kind because he withheld punishment. And yes, Tyrion did abuse her in the sense that he had the choice to force her into marrying him or another.

It's also a completely false impression with readers that Sansa rejects Tyrion on account of looks alone. The wedding night in the books can be set against Sandor escorting Sansa to the tower and revealing the cause of his burns to her. In both cases we have a disfigured man, but only with one of them mental and emotional intimacy is established - Sandor. Attraction is not solely based on looks, as Olenna points out, but on the ability of two people being able to establish an intimate bond between them on several levels.

Exactly. 

6 hours ago, Woman of War said:

People hardly get what they want in these books or series. If they are lucky though they might end with their second or third best option.

The Selhoris slave prostitute was certainly meant to give us the lowest point of Tyrion's arc and to show us how much he was disgusted by himself.  This would have been an important element of his character description in the show as well, in order to build up his character again and Dinklage would have been the actor to give us the whole complexity of Tyrion's character.

Only this part was never in the show, only the fact that Tyrion is an alcoholic.

And so it does not matter if  show Sansa would ever want a "sex slave raping" Tyrion since there is no such Tyrion  in the show.

And in the books - how could Sansa ever know about that dark scene if Tyrion is not the one who tells her himself about his worst moments? There would be talk about far more awful things he did, for whatever reason.  They would have to talk about, for example, how it feels to napalm a whole enemy fleet, to kill one's own father. And if Sansa and Tyrion ever arrive to tell each other their worst secrets then they would have come very close to trust and friendship already.

So that disgusting Selhoris scene is a zero argument when it comes to Sansa's opinion of Tyrion.

So you admit that Sansa doesn't want Tyrion? Yet you still want them to be together. It's so weird how so many posts in this thread completely disregard how Sansa feels when it's a Sansa ship thread. Actually 'weird' is the wrong word, I think 'sad' is more fitting. 

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5 hours ago, The Fattest Leech said:

I agree. The show did, in fact, raise Tyrion up onto a mighty  pedestal and left out any greyness that each character should have. Instead, tv Tyrion gives alms to the poor, nods his head approvingly when Dany asks for guidance, and gives puppy dog eyes when Dany mysteriously and suddenly has no feelings for Daario- the man who helped give her what she wanted on a silver platter. 

But since others on this thread were criss-crossing book to tv info to make their points, I engaged in the conversation the same way. If that is a problem, please police them as well and I will support that. 

I am sure you are familiar the phrase "actions speak louder than words"? Well, Tyrion doesn't have to literally tell Sansa all of his past deeds because if it's in his constitution to have singers made into stew, strangle his girlfriend, kill his father, rape a slave girl, and hide poison mushrooms away for a future date, then those actions will come back to the surface in some way in the future. And who is to say that Tyrion wouldn't blab to Sansa what he did during a drunken stupor? 

Im sure the fact that they were married in the first place has a subplot in the future, but I highly doubt it is a union for romance or politics.

Who knows, the annulment could be done without Tyrion and he snaps and tries to kill Sansa because he decides "whores go to the Vale". 

Whores go to the Vale??? This last sentence does not make much sense since you are constructing a scenario based on  Tyrion being not even there to kill anyone. No, let's ignore that, not worth mentioning. 

 And you automatically assume that Tyrion  having  done bad acts and confessing them would mean that Martin could not write a common story of Tyrion and Sansa? Sansa will only decide for someone who has nothing to confess? LOL! That leaves Pod, I guess, and maybe our good guy Jon, well why not, a good choice both of them. But would they choose Sansa? 

What if Sansa herself will have a lot to confess and to regret in the end?  Who in this world has nothing to confess?! Apart from that Sansa knows very well what Tyrion did at Blackwater and that he killed Tywin, no secrets here. 

All pointless, it does not matter if some fans like Tyrion, Jon or Pod or not, if Martin decides that  a certain pairing in between or as endgame makes sense storywise it will happen since the author wants it to happen.

 

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