What was the point? [Spoilers]

[mbuehner]

1 minute ago, no_one_... said:

The problem is I don't think the Producers made that choice.  I think they see it as showing her doing something badass.   I wouldn't mind if they intentionally had her cross a line like that and made it part of her character development.  But, I see it more as fulfilling a plot point and ignoring the impact on the character.

Maybe, but I don't see it that way at all. Her entire arc is about her death list. Death list overcame Faceless Man love. She's essentially The Bride from Kill Bill, obsessed, damaged. That IS her character.

[no_one_...]

25 minutes ago, mbuehner said:

Maybe, but I don't see it that way at all. Her entire arc is about her death list. Death list overcame Faceless Man love. She's essentially The Bride from Kill Bill, obsessed, damaged. That IS her character.

Her arch was only about her death list until this season.  I saw her character development w/the FM as a self reveal that she's Arya Stark and not just a executioner.  It's why they showed her breaking at different points and realizing the lies she was telling herself about who was on the deathlist or not and why.  It's also why they show her connection w/the Queen Reg after the play and the empathy she has for the Queen R's situation in that moment.  Her goal when she spoke w/the actress was to go West of Westeros, not some killing spree.  Again, this wasn't just checking off a mark on her kill list.  The manner which it was done was very twisted and evil.  Which imo, it was LS who should have done in the books.  

Edit:

To clarify, I've only read the 1st book waiting for the series to end before continuing.  So, I've made assumptions of who I think should do things in the books and why.  LS obviously doesn't kill and serve sons to WF from what I've gathered online.  But, my point remains serving kids to parents is twisted and evil brand of gods' justice.  

[FacelessManOf TheShire]

5 minutes ago, no_one_... said:

So we're to ignore just how twisted and evil it was to serve children to their father as food?  This isn't just killing for a sense of justice.

When it was done in the books (admittedly not sons fed to father, but on the scale it's still close) it was celebrated. Personally I don't see the issue.

[GilletteMace]

On 28.6.2016 at 5:07 PM, SevasTra82 said:

I wish they wouldn't have done the whole Frey Pie period to be honest.  It brought up way too many questions.  

- How did Arya already make it to the Riverlands so quickly?  
- How did she acquire that serving face?  Did she steal it from B&W?  Kill an innocent girl?
- How did she break into the castle, kill the two Frey boys and Sweeney-Todd them in the kitchens without *anyone* seeing her?
- Why was Walder all alone in his mess hall, still eating?  No guards?  Servers?  Everyone just left?

I can understand the desire to put this scene in the show somewhere, but they opened up another doorway of plot holes that just didn't make much sense.  Of course, I should have come to expect this by now from the Show...do something for a "shock" value, but completely ignore how it was even possible or how it makes sense.

How did Arya already make it to the Riverlands so quickly?  

between the feast at freys and the last scene you have seen Arya were 4 weeks of travelling that involved a lot of boring stuff. it was the same 4 weeks it took varys come back to meereen and the fleet to ready up. in fact arya wasnt really quick, she stopped by in several brothels along the way to work a bit for leisure.

 How did she acquire that serving face?  Did she steal it from B&W?  Kill an innocent girl?

as arya learned how to obtain a face in the time she spend at B&W, she took her chance when she came across a terrible horsecart crash on a lonely interstate leading to the twins. that innocent girls head was the only thing left untouched by vultures. i know its a miracle as vultures use to go for the soft parts first, but thats how she took that poor girls face. she had no use for it anymore anyway.

How did she break into the castle, kill the two Frey boys and Sweeney-Todd them in the kitchens without *anyone* seeing her?

as arya learned how to sneak in everywhere with ease (part of her off screen training at B/W, the details of sneaking have to do a lot with waiting and observing thus are very boring) she took the obvious route through the sewers. and thats where she lured the frey boys to, with the promise of some hot action of the golden-brown nature. the freyboys couldnt resist as they feel a comfy warmth thinking of the smell of the brown. in the darkness down in the sewers they got assassinated, cooked in a small kettle (she didnt cook them whole as you may imagine, just face, brain and genitals.) and transferred into a readymade pie, that arya stole along with the kettle from the kitchen. in fact she has been seen by several rats, who watched her cooking face brain and genitals of two guys in sewer water in a stolen kettle. luckily for arya, rats dont speak.

Why was Walder all alone in his mess hall, still eating?  No guards?  Servers?  Everyone just left?

Sometimes after a party walder just sits down alone and reminisce of the evening and his friends. he thinks about the future and remembers the past. the silent hall, that was filled with voices and sounds just few hours ago, the guards sent back to the gates to continue their duty, the servers gone to bed at his command. everyone left at his command, but he is still there, he and this innocent sweet girl with the full red lips... i mean in the end its his mess hall, isnt it?

 

to me it all makes a  lot of sense. just because they dont show every little stupid detail doesnt mean that nothing happened or people travel on lightnings.

[FacelessManOf TheShire]

39 minutes ago, GilletteMace said:

How did Arya already make it to the Riverlands so quickly?  

between the feast at freys and the last scene you have seen Arya were 4 weeks of travelling that involved a lot of boring stuff. it was the same 4 weeks it took varys come back to meereen and the fleet to ready up. in fact arya wasnt really quick, she stopped by in several brothels along the way to work a bit for leisure.

 How did she acquire that serving face?  Did she steal it from B&W?  Kill an innocent girl?

as arya learned how to obtain a face in the time she spend at B&W, she took her chance when she came across a terrible horsecart crash on a lonely interstate leading to the twins. that innocent girls head was the only thing left untouched by vultures. i know its a miracle as vultures use to go for the soft parts first, but thats how she took that poor girls face. she had no use for it anymore anyway.

How did she break into the castle, kill the two Frey boys and Sweeney-Todd them in the kitchens without *anyone* seeing her?

as arya learned how to sneak in everywhere with ease (part of her off screen training at B/W, the details of sneaking have to do a lot with waiting and observing thus are very boring) she took the obvious route through the sewers. and thats where she lured the frey boys to, with the promise of some hot action of the golden-brown nature. the freyboys couldnt resist as they feel a comfy warmth thinking of the smell of the brown. in the darkness down in the sewers they got assassinated, cooked in a small kettle (she didnt cook them whole as you may imagine, just face, brain and genitals.) and transferred into a readymade pie, that arya stole along with the kettle from the kitchen. in fact she has been seen by several rats, who watched her cooking face brain and genitals of two guys in sewer water in a stolen kettle. luckily for arya, rats dont speak.

Why was Walder all alone in his mess hall, still eating?  No guards?  Servers?  Everyone just left?

Sometimes after a party walder just sits down alone and reminisce of the evening and his friends. he thinks about the future and remembers the past. the silent hall, that was filled with voices and sounds just few hours ago, the guards sent back to the gates to continue their duty, the servers gone to bed at his command. everyone left at his command, but he is still there, he and this innocent sweet girl with the full red lips... i mean in the end its his mess hall, isnt it?

 

to me it all makes a  lot of sense. just because they dont show every little stupid detail doesnt mean that nothing happened or people travel on lightnings.

Har! And once more Har!

[Tchzaelous]

21 hours ago, CrypticWeirwood said:

People who go into something looking to be entertained are more apt to experience that pleasure than those going into something looking to complain, who will also find what they were looking to find.

Everything is imperfect, but there's no reason to fixate on that and plenty of reason not to. The world is what you make of it.  If you want to look for imperfections instead of achievements, then you are only hurting yourself.

I WAS entertained for 5 Seasons. Then this shit was released.

I like story, I like characters, but most of all I like those things to make sense and not feel like someone sat on the remote and skipped 2/3rds of what should have been there.

[lakin1013]

Why was Walder alone in his mess hall, still eating?

He asks the young serving girl repeatedly where his sons are.  He makes it clear he told them to meet him there to discuss something important.  That is why he keeps saying -- where are they?  and she keeps saying -- they are here. 

 

 

[ShadowKitteh]

9 hours ago, no_one_... said:

So we're to ignore just how twisted and evil it was to serve children to their father as food?  This isn't just killing for a sense of justice.

 Perhaps you should take it up with George, since he originated that bit - with a nod to Bill Shakes of course.

[CrypticWeirwood]

Exceedingly few authors are as meticulous in making sure that the timelines of characters in different threads lined up with each other correctly as was Tolkien. Martin certainly is not fastidious in this.

And when it comes to on-screen presentation, the showrunners are even less concerned with it for fear of slowing down the relentless drive to the finish.  Distracting details can kill a screen presentation like this.  Remember the attention span and retention of most viewers. Pacing is critical.

But seriously, what would you suggest they do to show the passage of time? They can't stick up "3 months later" placards. They can't show the turning of the seasons.

What do you want them to do here?

[of man and wolf]

I kind of thought it make Robb and his Northmen look weak for getting slaughtered by these guys at a wedding...meanwhile a little girl kills the three of them easy as pie and perhaps even more off screen that weren't bothered to be mentioned.

[no_one_...]

1 hour ago, ShadowKitteh said:

 Perhaps you should take it up with George, since he originated that bit - with a nod to Bill Shakes of course.

The issue I have isn't the bit it's the context of the character who does the act.  Aside, eating your own goes back to gods of Greek Mythology and probably before then.

[Grizzly Mormont]

2 hours ago, lakin1013 said:

Why was Walder alone in his mess hall, still eating?

He asks the young serving girl repeatedly where his sons are.  He makes it clear he told them to meet him there to discuss something important.  That is why he keeps saying -- where are they?  and she keeps saying -- they are here. 

 

 

Sons, I need you to meet me in the giant Hall alone, for serious reasons!

[TWR]

11 hours ago, no_one_... said:

To clarify, I've only read the 1st book waiting for the series to end before continuing. 

I hope you're talking about the show & not the books or else you're never getting past AGOT

[no_one_...]

2 minutes ago, TWR said:

I hope you're talking about the show & not the books or else you're never getting past AGOT

Yeah, the show.  Most books are better than the show and I didn't want to constantly be reminded of things I liked better in the books.

[TWR]

Just now, no_one_... said:

Yeah, the show.  Most books are better than the show and I didn't want to constantly be reminded of things I liked better in the books.

I wish I would've had that much control, would've made the show more enjoyable for me

[ShadowKitteh]

On June 30, 2016 at 7:27 PM, TWR said:

I wish I would've had that much control, would've made the show more enjoyable for me

I started the books after season 1 ended. As the slowest reader on earth, I finally finished DWD between seasons 2 & 3. 

I love the show, and think many things have been improved in the visual storytelling process. Just like some things in the books are better imagining them in your head - and why the House of the Undying along with Arstan Whitebeard were unshootable as written because they'd be so full of spoilers. I'm sure they waited to show us that Coldhands is Benjen for the same reason. (Won't be surprised if that's all GRRM.)

I haven't ever once felt there was any kind of competition with the books v show. I love both. And with the show/visual we're not stuck in any character's heads, like the books, so we get more. Like more Robb. More Tywin and with Arya! That was amazing. I don't care if it never happened in the books. 

Dear HBO, Can we please have a prequel series???? I'M BEGGING.

[Asvpxkvng]

On June 28, 2016 at 10:07 AM, SevasTra82 said:

I wish they wouldn't have done the whole Frey Pie period to be honest.  It brought up way too many questions.  

- How did Arya already make it to the Riverlands so quickly?  
- How did she acquire that serving face?  Did she steal it from B&W?  Kill an innocent girl?
- How did she break into the castle, kill the two Frey boys and Sweeney-Todd them in the kitchens without *anyone* seeing her?
- Why was Walder all alone in his mess hall, still eating?  No guards?  Servers?  Everyone just left?

I can understand the desire to put this scene in the show somewhere, but they opened up another doorway of plot holes that just didn't make much sense.  Of course, I should have come to expect this by now from the Show...do something for a "shock" value, but completely ignore how it was even possible or how it makes sense.

Listen I hope she has skills enough to pull that off after an annoyingly long time on that ridiculous story arc. Let's just be glad she gained something from it and name her the Master Assassin of Winterfell!

[GilletteMace]

On 1.7.2016 at 1:46 AM, CrypticWeirwood said:

Exceedingly few authors are as meticulous in making sure that the timelines of characters in different threads lined up with each other correctly as was Tolkien. Martin certainly is not fastidious in this.

And when it comes to on-screen presentation, the showrunners are even less concerned with it for fear of slowing down the relentless drive to the finish.  Distracting details can kill a screen presentation like this.  Remember the attention span and retention of most viewers. Pacing is critical.

But seriously, what would you suggest they do to show the passage of time? They can't stick up "3 months later" placards. They can't show the turning of the seasons.

What do you want them to do here?

firstly they should arrange the scenes in a way that the more time passed, the further they are away from each other meaning in the varys case for example, avoid to put the olenna dorne scene in the middle of the episode while showing varys on the boat at the very end. alternatively, do not show varys at the last scene and let him just pop up in the next episode. the dorne scene should have been at the beginning of the episode or very close by. the last scene would have been better without varys anyway.

[illinifan]

On 6/28/2016 at 10:07 AM, SevasTra82 said:

I wish they wouldn't have done the whole Frey Pie period to be honest.  It brought up way too many questions.  

- How did Arya already make it to the Riverlands so quickly?  
- How did she acquire that serving face?  Did she steal it from B&W?  Kill an innocent girl?
- How did she break into the castle, kill the two Frey boys and Sweeney-Todd them in the kitchens without *anyone* seeing her?
- Why was Walder all alone in his mess hall, still eating?  No guards?  Servers?  Everyone just left?

I can understand the desire to put this scene in the show somewhere, but they opened up another doorway of plot holes that just didn't make much sense.  Of course, I should have come to expect this by now from the Show...do something for a "shock" value, but completely ignore how it was even possible or how it makes sense.

It is Arya in the earlier scene with Jaime.  That is a clue that we should have noticed in hindsight.  She probably slipped into the Twins much earlier.  And Walder Frey is eating alone in the mess hall because no one wants to eat with the Freys given how they treat dinner guests.