Cersei as queen - how is she accepted by the realm?

[Artos Cold]

On 28 juni 2016 at 0:34 PM, Nakraal said:

Cercei is done with the woman inside her. Its more possible she marries Sansa than Euron.

Now that would be an interesting marriage. 

[VladimirDulud]

The main thing here is assigning the iron throne to Cersei, as if she was an intelligent enough character to merit that position. Actually Cersei has been written as psychotic in the books and maybe more sympathetic on the show - but all her moves are the wrong ones and she has absolutely no discipline within the rules established in the show to merit her sitting herself on that throne. Littlefinger has been scheming and playing alliances all along and he would make sense. The Tyrells would have made sense. But Cersei seems like such a small character, making choices based on the most individualistic of reasons ....they should have vindicated this character by giving her a stroke of genius or two much earlier on. This character is so cartoony .

[A spoon of knife and fork]

7 hours ago, VladimirDulud said:

The main thing here is assigning the iron throne to Cersei, as if she was an intelligent enough character to merit that position. Actually Cersei has been written as psychotic in the books and maybe more sympathetic on the show - but all her moves are the wrong ones and she has absolutely no discipline within the rules established in the show to merit her sitting herself on that throne. Littlefinger has been scheming and playing alliances all along and he would make sense. The Tyrells would have made sense. But Cersei seems like such a small character, making choices based on the most individualistic of reasons ....they should have vindicated this character by giving her a stroke of genius or two much earlier on. This character is so cartoony .

what's this silly idea you have that the best, brightest, and most worthy are going to take the throne?  If that was true Robert would never have ruled.  Nor would half the people who have sat it in the past.  Ultimately, the Tyrells can't have the throne because Cersei blew them up.  Which is exactly the kind of (short sighted, "might beats intrigure") move she usually makes.  

I think that she made at least one reasonably intelligent move at this season.  In episode 5-6 she convinced the Queen of Thorns to use the Tyrell army to try to take out the High Sparrow & rescue the Tyrell Kids.  It was a great move, because it risked her nothing and she would benefit regardless of the outcome.  If the Sparrows "win" (as they did), the Tyrells are further weakened.  If the Tyrells win, then her most dangerous enemy is weakened and she may avoid a trial.  Meanwhile Kevan, the City Watch, and the Lannister forces remain unblooded and hands clean.  The high sparrow outplayed them by managing to get Margaery to "turn" just in time (of course Margaery certainly has some longer game planned even if we'll never learn what that was exactly).  

 

[Darksky]

She has no power, no loyalists at the court but Qyburn and The Mountain. Euron might ally with her but it will be to use her for his own ends. He won't be a true ally.

Her season 7 arc will be that of a glorious downfall. This time permanent.

[FingerlittleGood]

I think more plot holes come from Frey pie than the Cersei story.. 1. She killed everyone who was against her and has control of the army... So yea if she has the Army in her pocket than who is going to stop her claim to the throne at this very moment? This was the last of the show so hopefully next season they will be plots to remove her.. She probably didn't have knowledge of Jaime returning so quickly 

[Kaptajn Congoboy]

On 6/28/2016 at 3:02 PM, adiman83 said:

Technically she still has the Riverlands and the Stormlands. For now the situation is as follows:

- North: Jon

- Vale: want to be independent but I assume they now declared for Jon. The knights of the Vale were cheering "King in the North" as well. 

- Iron Islands: Euron

- Riverlands: Cersei, although that's debatable considering Walder Frey's death. 

- Stormlands (if they're still a thing): most likely Cersei

- Crownlands: Cersei

- Westerlands: Cersei

- Reach: Daenerys

- Dorne: Daenerys

 

But the situation will change quickly because, as you said, the Targaryen army is approaching. And in my personal opinion, she will lose the Westerlands because Kevan Lannister also died in the Sept.

I sort of doubt Cersei has any clout in the Riverlands unless the Freys pull a competent leader out of their hat, and considering that they seem even more useless in the show than in the books, that sounds unlikely. Also, Jaime should be the rightful ruler of the Westerlands now - he has been thrown out of the Kingsguard, remember? Unless he dutifully falls in line with his idiot sister, Cersei has control over the Crownlands. The show hasn't bothered telling us who holds the Stormlands (or Dragonstone and its islands, for that matter) in their now increasingly weird continuity so that's up in the air.

In general, her crowning is a very Cersei-esque boneheaded move, but I am not sure the writers will not gloss over the sheer imbecility of it and just let her run wild with what they can give her (like they let Ramsay do in the North with his kinslaying-and-raving-lunatic ways) until Daenerys and the combined forces of the Dothraki-Targaryens (that'll be fun for Westeros), Reach, Dorne (so far untouched by war) and the Greyjoy rebels come and crisp her alcoholic little head like her prophecy says they will. Perhaps Euron will be able to magically build a new fleet and bring what is left of Greyjoy power to her side, since his goose is up for the cooking by Daenerys. I wouldn't be surprised, considering how much chaos they've thrown the chronology into with the last season. Perhaps she will also get Varys and Arya's new teleportation abilities.

[MaesterWho]

I think she will maintain power with tyranny and fear. She will find some clever way to blow up, destroy or murder anyone else who comes along to oppose her. She will "make examples"- like putting heads on sticks- of everyone who angers or insults her in any significant or insignificant way, low born or high born- as an ostentatious show of power. She will also scheme to destroy any house who questions her authority or right to rule. The people of Kings Landing will let her rule out of fear of what she might do if opposed, because power resides where people think it resides, in this case the woman who can burn down the entire city.

Outside of Kings Landing, people like the Tarlys and the Northerners probably won't recognize her authority. She will send the entire realm into turmoil. When Dany arrives with her dragons and the alliances of house Tyrell and Dorne, people just might welcome her, foreign or not, because Cersei will prove to be a vicious and unmerciful tyrannical leader. 

Yes... I think she will be a dictator like ruler, until armies rise to dipose her, like Dany's army.

I also predict that she will kill one of Dany's dragons. I don't know how it will happen or when. I think she will have one more vile and quintessentially Disney villain act up her sleeve, and killing a dragon with some petty and clever scheme is right up her alley. She's definitely not finished with making everyone else around her suffer for her own sick pleasure. 

[MtnLion]

Since the show does not have fAegon to take the throne at this stage, Cersei has been placed in his role.  (Cersei also was responsible for Pycelle's and Kevan's deaths, that was Varys' doing in the books.)  I really wonder how Varys came to be favored to be in Daenerys' circle, since he tried to poison her.  (Hmmm.) 

[HellasLEAF]

The Cersei powerplay is still very surprising to me.  I mean, she has enemies all around her.  With armies.  What forces are really backing her here and will be loyal?

She surely must know of the mounting forces in the East (and if she doesn't she'll blind).  And South.  And North.  

Bottom line I see this as short lived unless D/D decide to stretch out an inevitable plot line. 

I'm not sure Cersei survives season 7.  

[Locksley]

How is Cersei accepted as queen of the realm? She is not, but more importantly, what realm? Dorne has rebelled and sided with Dany. The Reach is with Dany. The Vale and the North just took down the Boltons and are more concerned with the White Walkers. The Riverlands will be in chaos after Walder Frey's death, or they will side with Edmure, either way it doesn't matter much as they have been completely devastated by the War of the Five Kings. The Iron Islands have rebelled. I would imagine that the Westerlands are under Jaime's control, so based on how terribly he is portrayed in the show, he may swear for Cersei, but that doesn't matter much as most of the Lannister army must have been devastated in the War of the Five Kings or be guarding King's Landing. I don't even know what is going on with the Stormlands in the damn show. I assume some of them were with Stannis and the rest are just being ignored for whatever reason, let's just go with the obvious, poor writing. So at most Cersei has the Crownlands and maybe the Westerlands loyal to her, and all those forces are devastated at best. Even if she makes an alliance with Euron or something like that, I can't see it amounting to much based on the show's portrayal of Euron and also the massively OP army Dany seems to have. If you can't see the writing on the wall for Cersei, well, that's a surprise. She doesn't need to be accepted, because she will die soon. Or be overthrown. Whatever. Her reign shall be shorter than Tyrion.

[FingerlittleGood]

4 hours ago, Locksley said:

How is Cersei accepted as queen of the realm? She is not, but more importantly, what realm? Dorne has rebelled and sided with Dany. The Reach is with Dany. The Vale and the North just took down the Boltons and are more concerned with the White Walkers. The Riverlands will be in chaos after Walder Frey's death, or they will side with Edmure, either way it doesn't matter much as they have been completely devastated by the War of the Five Kings. The Iron Islands have rebelled. I would imagine that the Westerlands are under Jaime's control, so based on how terribly he is portrayed in the show, he may swear for Cersei, but that doesn't matter much as most of the Lannister army must have been devastated in the War of the Five Kings or be guarding King's Landing. I don't even know what is going on with the Stormlands in the damn show. I assume some of them were with Stannis and the rest are just being ignored for whatever reason, let's just go with the obvious, poor writing. So at most Cersei has the Crownlands and maybe the Westerlands loyal to her, and all those forces are devastated at best. Even if she makes an alliance with Euron or something like that, I can't see it amounting to much based on the show's portrayal of Euron and also the massively OP army Dany seems to have. If you can't see the writing on the wall for Cersei, well, that's a surprise. She doesn't need to be accepted, because she will die soon. Or be overthrown. Whatever. Her reign shall be shorter than Tyrion.

Don't even try to figure out all the plot holes the writers left last season... Maybe if they would spend more time linking story lines and less time on dragging out pointless scenes for an entire season it would make more sense. Just seem like they were trying to fill space like the entire Tyrion, Grey worm, Missande scenes... Just one of many story lines that got dragged around show after show that never amounted to anything good

[Locksley]

On 7/6/2016 at 5:52 AM, FingerlittleGood said:

Don't even try to figure out all the plot holes the writers left last season... Maybe if they would spend more time linking story lines and less time on dragging out pointless scenes for an entire season it would make more sense. Just seem like they were trying to fill space like the entire Tyrion, Grey worm, Missande scenes... Just one of many story lines that got dragged around show after show that never amounted to anything good

I completely agree. Those scenes were pretty unnecessary. 

[Quyen Thuy Tran]

Now they will try to make Cersei some kind of super villain who will eventually end up miserably like they did for Ramsay. They will give her plot armor like they did for Ramsay until her time is over. 

[dsug]

Why do so many people assume everybody is just rolling over and accepting her reign? It's only one episode. She literally just got crowned. Of course there haven't been any rebellions yet, because no one knows what the fuck just happened. Half the city is still burning. 

Once the dust settles, I'm sure the common people won't welcome Queen Cersei with open arms. We already know they hated her, and that was before she blew up the beautiful Sept and killed the beloved High Sparrow and Queen Margaery. Also, it's unclear whether Tommen's suicide is common knowledge, so for all anyone, Jaime included, knows, Tommen died in the fire, killed by his own mother. 

I am hoping for some good riot scenes next year. 

[Alexandros_of_Lys]

16 hours ago, dsug said:

Why do so many people assume everybody is just rolling over and accepting her reign? It's only one episode. She literally just got crowned. Of course there haven't been any rebellions yet, because no one knows what the fuck just happened. Half the city is still burning. 

Once the dust settles, I'm sure the common people won't welcome Queen Cersei with open arms. We already know they hated her, and that was before she blew up the beautiful Sept and killed the beloved High Sparrow and Queen Margaery. Also, it's unclear whether Tommen's suicide is common knowledge, so for all anyone, Jaime included, knows, Tommen died in the fire, killed by his own mother. 

I am hoping for some good riot scenes next year. 

I think the issue for me is I don't understand how time works anymore in the show. I cannot tell how much time happens between two events, which was not true at the beginning of the series, and it is really messing with my perception of everything. I mean -- Varys starts out the episode in Dorne, and then there's enough time for him to go BACK to Mereen and then hop on the ship with Dany and her army? Even if him being on the ship was a mistake and the writers forgot where Varys was supposed to be, how long did it take Arya to get from Braavos to the Twins? Logically, should've taken a while, but this show makes it seem like she took an Alaska Airlines non-stop flight. This isn't relevant to the Cersei conversation, per say, but hopefully gives some background as to why I'm confused.

Now, towards the middle of the episode, right after Cersei blows up the Sept, Jamie seems to be in the Twins, correct? Well, that's about as far away from King's Landing as you can get in the Riverlands. How long does it take for him to get from point A to point B? Well, the Twins seem to be about halfway between Winterfell and KL. It took Robert a month to make that trip, so that put's Jaime at 15 days to get back to King's Landing, but Robert was probably going at a slow pace. So we'll be generous and say it only takes 7 days. This math isn't exact, obviously, but hopefully this seems like a reasonable estimate. The main point is -- it would've taken Jamie several days to return to King's Landing.

I do not understand how Cersei managed to keep herself from getting killed during those few days. All she has protecting her are (part of) the Kingsguard and Gold Cloaks. However, she just killed an overwhelming number of people, and I find it difficult to believe that a sizable portion of the Gold Cloaks wouldn't have cared about that. Many probably had brothers, sisters, parents, and/or friends in the Sept -- I highly doubt they'd follow Cersei without question right after a 9/11 type event that she is undoubtedly suspected of. So the ~2,000 in her command are not really ~2,000. What that number it would be is not determined, but without the Lannister army, even a few dozen stirring up unrest would be highly problematic.

Cersei is also extremely unpopular and has no real/strong claim to the throne (in terms of traditional succession). While most of the lords and ladies were blown to smitherines, there seem to still be some in KL, even if it's just a few. (Unless her coronation was attended by a bunch of literal nobodies). There'd also be some knights scattered around. Again, willing to bet some of those folks had attachments to the Sept victims. The fact that none of these people did ANYTHING in the immediate aftermath of the Sept's destruction strikes me as highly unrealistic. Or that the smallfolk didn't rise up in rebellion, 'cause High Sparrow seemed rather popular! They would've blamed/suspected Cersei even IF she hadn't actually been the one to do it. I don't buy this unresisted coup, even after killing a lot of people. People should've been storming the Red Keep the moment they understood that the Sept of Baelor and everyone in it had just been brutally burned to ash. Yes, Gold Cloaks and Kingsguard might be scary, but I get the feeling that wouldn't have stopped every single person in KL, especially if some of the Gold Cloaks would be willing to join in the riots. Plus Tommen's (strangely unquestioned) suicide? No. Instead, they seem to have just rolled over, giving Jamie the time he needed to ride back to King's Landing with a Lannister army, turning things in Cersei's favor.

It feels unrealistic and I'm disappointed in how deus ex machina it all seems. 

[HookedOnSonics518]

On 6/28/2016 at 7:34 AM, FireWinds said:

What opposition? She's taken everyone out and taken the throne by force. 

Everyone would know she killed all those people, everyone is too scared to say anything or go against her, especially the common people that have absolutely no power and are probably scared for their own lives after that walk of shame business. Everyone else needs time to regroup after what has happened and need to form a plan. 

Just like history book after history book of tyrannical leaders that conquer lands and becoming their new leaders. They have no right nor claim to lead but they do anyway because they've wiped out anyone who says otherwise. 

Totally agree! The common people really couldn't do shit when Joffrey took over, except riot. So, with winter here and the Crownlands once again facing food shortages due to Cersei burning her alliance with House Tyrell (no pun intended), she pretty much the ruler of a sinking ship who will once again rule through force and fear and expect it to work.

[MoreOrLess]

Time wise I think its pretty clear that Jamie arrives back at Kings landing fairly soon after the Sept is blown up as he can see the smoke. Granted secondary fires might carry on burning for awhile after the wildfire but at most I think your talking a couple of days. Its the cut to Jamie at the Twins that doesn't represent real time events, that scene with Walder happened somewhat before the events in Kings Landing.

[Aedam Targaryen]

I don't know why everybody is getting hung up on the logic of Cersei taking the throne. LOGIC IS GONE!

The writers already set up this precedent when an un-Royal bastard woman killed a Prince in episode 1 this season, and just claimed control of an entire region. If Ellaria can just sit down and rule Dorne after murdering the current leader, and there hadn't been any revolt or uprising against her all season, I can't imagine there being much of an uprising against Cersei, wife of a king, mother to two kings, true born child of one of the most powerful families in Westeros.

So remember, if you're in the room when someone important dies, just slide into that empty seat! 

Also, if we haven't met them, they don't exist... so the reason that there aren't any nobles rising against these actions (like the Yronwoods in Dorne) is because there aren't any. 

Now that I'm typing this out, I guess it's possible that Lord Tarly (since we did meet him) shows up and is pissed, but that seems too logical... So, Queen Cersei, long may she rein?

[Bear Claw]

Well, the prophecy said she  would be Queen for a time. I will assume that it meant ruling Queen. I hope  she sticks around because without her there are no interesting villains. The White Walkers are pretty boring right now. I would love to see her take a dragon and defeat Dany. That would send everyone into a tail spin. 

[Bee Diddie]

On 6/28/2016 at 6:16 AM, Lordsteve666 said:

 Otherwise there's no way the population would just roll over and accept her rule knowing she was to blame for that massacre. I imagine some form of Qyburn driven propaganda machine is in play to make it seem like she is free of blame. You'd have open rebellion and rioting on the streets if the people knew what she had a part in doing  

Are you sure? The realm is tired of war and preparing for winter.
Are you going to march your army into KL and risk having your host incinerated?
Nobody knows how much more WF Cercei has stashed.
Cercei is the next in succession.
There will undoubtedly be plans to overthrow her but I think there'll be a period of "WTF did that just happen? uncertainty.